I gotta say, in defense of us who thought second serves were the only ones hit, .....who can watch long enough with that music in the foreground?..
It doesn't matter, in or out. The motion and the mechanics required to translate that much energy into the ball during a serve motion is a very complicated thing. If your serve motion yields 100mph, nothing aside from an overhead will give you 30 more mph. If you can somehow serve a 130 non-legal, then you should be at least in the 120s legal. Doesn't make sense. I guarantee you that you have no idea in the slightest just how fast 130mph is.
I played in an open tournament a year ago, and one of the players was an ex-minor league pitcher. He said his max was 136. This man's serve made the entire tennis center stop and look just from the sound alone. Playing against a serve that fast is frightening, but watching the fluidity and seamless transition through the body of potential to kinetic energy is a form of art. So yes, I'll keep my opinion until you see a 130mph pro or D1 server at court level. It is not even in the same category as 100mph because it takes absolute perfect form to get to that speed.
I couldn't take it. Bad jazz does not go well with second serves.
I gotta say, in defense of us who thought second serves were the only ones hit, .....who can watch long enough with that music in the foreground?..
FYI, when I make it up to SF to play tennis with you guys, I'll be bringing
my giant boombox on court and playing the same song.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...sQO2h8n3CA&page=1&ndsp=61&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0
lets just realize one thing...
Out of all these Karlovic 156, and Roddick 155 serves on Davis Cup guns (which I believe Roddick can hit, or close to, and Karlovic couldnt - which is obvious his 156 is an error)....this seems the fastest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5UolJt5LY
Even in slow motion it is like 3 frames and hitting.
Just post your 127 MPH serve and I'll leave you be.
I don't have to do anything and you'll leave me be, ok?
Just post your 127 MPH serve and I'll leave you be.
EXACTLY!
Jonny S&V -- post your 120 mph serve at least...
Tipsa's been "clocked" at 400-something, that does not mean jack...
The real question is, is it harder to pitch 99, than it is to hit 130? Only a few can do either.
Can you see any woman pitching 99? Venus hit 129! I'll bet she couldn't break 80 pitching.
Funnily enough, Jonny has a youtube account full of service vids all below 100 MPH but he says he has too much of a social life to make a video hmmmm.
IMO a 99mph pitch is more like 140 than 130.
A little off base, but do you remember a couple of years ago there was a game show in India about tasting thousands of people (cricket players, javelin throwers, etc.) to see if anyone could through throw hard enough to be professional baseball players.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/01/ap/sportsline/main5127266.shtml
The two winners pitched in the low 90s.
So I wonder how fast people, who never played tennis before, could serve. I would guess 90+ mph translate to about 130.
No way. They might be able to hit 100-110.
IMO a 99mph pitch is more like 140 than 130.
I've faced a 95mph pitcher as well as high nineties pitching machine sessions before while playing college ball. I've faced 115 mph to 125 mph serves from the top juniors in the nation. A 95mph pitch is faster than a 125 mph serve so you're right on track although it's hard to say exactly where that number is. By no means am I implying that 125 mph serve is easy though but I can definitely track the ball easier.
You're stretching this here. There are high school and low level college pitchers who can put up those numbers. You really need to be D1 or pro level to be putting up 130mph serves regularly. Even then, those players have the high unreturned numbers even if it's just based on pace alone (Roddick, Ivanisevic, Isner, Phillippoussis, Raonic, etc.) versus razor sharp placement (Federer, Sampras).I agree. Hitting a baseball is ***WAY*** harder than hitting a tennis ball.
The tennis ball slows down a lot more from wind resistance and also from
the court. A baseball bat is much heavier and round. Small sweet spot.
Harder to swing as fast. A tennis racquet is 60-125 sq inches, flat, lighter.
IMO, even an 85 mpg baseball pitch is harder to hit than a 130 mph serve.
That's the nail on the head again. First taped Sampras in 89 Phillie indoor. 120 on the line any time he got into trouble was almost always unreturnable or an outright ace, by a 18yr. old.You're stretching this here. There are high school and low level college pitchers who can put up those numbers. You really need to be D1 or pro level to be putting up 130mph serves regularly. Even then, those players have the high unreturned numbers even if it's just based on pace alone (Roddick, Ivanisevic, Isner, Phillippoussis, Raonic, etc.) versus razor sharp placement (Federer, Sampras).
If you look at the stats, the faster servers tend to have similar numbers to those who can paint the lines simply because you need to prepare before the ball is even hit for a 130mph serve a foot from the edge of the box whereas that same serve at 120mph in the same spot can usually be returned. 120mph painted on the T ala Sampras, however, is going to almost always be unreturnable. However, having personally served 119 and then facing someone serving in the low 130s, it's an entirely different ball game. You just need to pray it's near you, and even then, you better make a solid block on it.
So no, if pitches in the 80s are found at the HS and college level and are regularly returned while a 130mph serve is returned only by the BEST returners out there, and even then, it needs to be near them, I'd easily argue the 130mph tennis serve is more difficult. Add 10mph to that pitch and then we're talking.
pvaudio & kiteboard, you guys misread my post. I was referring to returning
a serve and hitting a pitch, not serving or pitching. I probably could have
phrased it more clearly. Just pointing out that on the receiving side (batter
and serve returner), it's much harder in baseball.
pvaudio & kiteboard, you guys misread my post. I was referring to returning
a serve and hitting a pitch, not serving or pitching. I probably could have
phrased it more clearly. Just pointing out that on the receiving side (batter
and serve returner), it's much harder in baseball.
Hitting a baseball and returning a serve are not at all comparable.
I agree. Hitting a baseball is ***WAY*** harder than hitting a tennis ball.
The tennis ball slows down a lot more from wind resistance and also from
the court. A baseball bat is much heavier and round. Small sweet spot.
Harder to swing as fast. A tennis racquet is 60-125 sq inches, flat, lighter.
IMO, even an 85 mpg baseball pitch is harder to hit than a 130 mph serve.
You make some good points about batting, but forget that returners in tennis face more spin, more speed, more speed change via decel, must clear the net, get it down into the court, must take a ball off the wicked bounce, must be a switch hitter, and don't even know if it's a Fh or Bh! to name a few things to go along with the fact that most pro servers are able to make serves at times that are NOT returnable period.
so while baseball batters have a tough job, all strikes need to be in the strike zone unless you get fooled, So clearly IMO in the bigger picture it pales beside returning serve at the higher levels.
I tried that and it just feels sooooo unnatural and i couldnt hit a serve. I am pretty much doing the Soderling, I think.
Sod does not bring it all the way up to the line, but it stays behind his front left foot, and out to the side a little bit, but he does use a pin point stance like you do.
Are pitchers more skilled than top servers? Top pitchers can throw high 90s, without the racquet, but top servers can hit 150+ and place it near a line. Far more pitchers can throw 90s, than servers can hit 150! ONly four or five have hit that speed in tennis. Dent, Roddick Karlovic, Raonic, etc., while even some high schoolers have thrown 90+.
Are pitchers more skilled than top servers? Top pitchers can throw high 90s, without the racquet, but top servers can hit 150+ and place it near a line. Far more pitchers can throw 90s, than servers can hit 150! ONly four or five have hit that speed in tennis. Dent, Roddick Karlovic, Raonic, etc., while even some high schoolers have thrown 90+.
You can't really compare tennis serves to baseball pitches -- apples to apples. The only reason tennis players can hit a 140mph serve is because of the racket and the ball.
Case in point, remove the racquet from the equation and let Karlovic throw the tennis ball as fast as he can. I guarantee he isn't going to throw it 100mph. In fact, he isn't going to get even close. Put a baseball in his hand and he might be able to throw it 90mph. Although he may dislocate his shoulder doing it without proper mechanics.
Baseball pitching requires pinpoint accuracy -- like tennis serving. The best baseball pitchers can throw a ball through a 36sq inch hole from 60 feet away.
I think both tennis serving and baseball pitching are equally technical and require equal amounts of brainpower.
I totally agree. Just b/c there are more people throwing 90mph doesn'tYou can't really compare tennis serves to baseball pitches -- apples to apples. The only reason tennis players can hit a 140mph serve is because of the racket and the ball.
Case in point, remove the racquet from the equation and let Karlovic throw the tennis ball as fast as he can. I guarantee he isn't going to throw it 100mph. In fact, he isn't going to get even close. Put a baseball in his hand and he might be able to throw it 90mph. Although he may dislocate his shoulder doing it without proper mechanics.
Baseball pitching requires pinpoint accuracy -- like tennis serving. The best baseball pitchers can throw a ball through a 36sq inch hole from 60 feet away.
I think both tennis serving and baseball pitching are equally technical and require equal amounts of brainpower.
I totally agree. Just b/c there are more people throwing 90mph doesn't
mean it's easier than hitting a 130mph serve. I think if some of these
90+ and 100+mph pitchers had learned to play tennis instead of baseball,
we certainly see speeds exceeding roddick, ivo, etc. Just my opinion.
What does a pitcher do but pitch? A tennis player serves then decides if he wants to come in behind it, stay back, anticipate a strong or weak return, hit a forehand, backhand, construct a point etc. You’re comparing the entire job of a player (pitching) with what’s only a small part of a complete tennis game. Tennis is difficult because of the many aspects to the sport both physical and mental and the precision it requires. Taking one element from it and breaking it down against a sport that only uses that element is short sighted.
What does a pitcher do but pitch? A tennis player serves then decides if he wants to come in behind it, stay back, anticipate a strong or weak return, hit a forehand, backhand, construct a point etc. You’re comparing the entire job of a player (pitching) with what’s only a small part of a complete tennis game. Tennis is difficult because of the many aspects to the sport both physical and mental and the precision it requires. Taking one element from it and breaking it down against a sport that only uses that element is short sighted.
It’s like saying. MAN what if Usain Bolt played tennis. He would own Rafa, he’s SO MUCH FASTER. Ok and? Can he hit banana forehand on the run around the net post off a 90mph drive? Can he play 7 best 3 of 5 set matches in a row and get through the ups and downs of hours upon hours of on court play?
I totally agree. Just b/c there are more people throwing 90mph doesn't
mean it's easier than hitting a 130mph serve. I think if some of these
90+ and 100+mph pitchers had learned to play tennis instead of baseball,
we certainly see speeds exceeding roddick, ivo, etc. Just my opinion.