Poor sport Spaniards

jamesblakefan#1 · Apr 20, 2011

Nadal: US shouldn’t use surface for Davis Cup

BARCELONA, Spain (AP)—Rafael Nadal says he supports the Spanish federation’s appeal over the United States’ choice of playing surface for the Davis Cup quarterfinal.

Nadal said Wednesday the American team’s choice of surface—called Indoor Hard Premiere—was unknown to him and his teammates.

The world’s top-ranked player says “if at the end (the surface) is not among the official ones, it should be ruled out or stiff fines should be applied, because for tournaments like that $50,000 is peanuts.”

The Spanish federation says the company that makes the surface is not included on the list of 91 manufacturers approved by the International Tennis Federation. The only tournament played on the surface last year was in San Jose.

The July 8-10 quarterfinal will be played in Austin, Texas.

http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news?slug=ap-nadal-daviscup

So much for Nadal not having anything to do with it...

TennisandMusic · Apr 20, 2011

jamesblakefan#1 said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news?slug=ap-nadal-daviscup

So much for Nadal not having anything to do with it...

He was asked a question, he opined. :lol:

Yes, Nadal is behind everything! Nadal is the embodiment of evil. Continue your quest.

Man, does Nadal really own you that much to where you think about him, react to him, and let him sour your mood? What gives.

DjokerIsTheBest · Apr 20, 2011

nadalbestclass said:
So if you wanna think of Nadal as the USA, then think of Spain as his opponents. If his opponents complained to the ump for it, would people call them bad sports? No. They are fully within their right to do so. That is all the Spanish team is doing.
I'm not a fan of Nadal taking so much time between points btw, same goes for Novak, but I'm not on the opposite side of the net from them. If I was, and it was killing my rhythm, I'd def complain.

Edit: He apparently addresses the DC surface thing. BUT it's in Spanish, which I do not speak. If you do, plz translate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrC4H3vSM4o&feature=feedu

You women are so pretty when you try to use reason

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

Can't believe people are still talking about this.

It's simple: if the surface is not allowed by the DC rules, play on something else that IS in the rulebook.

I don't think it's a issue of speed, but one of familiarity.

Spaniards have played on mega fast indoor HC and were humiliated by the Frenchies 5-0 but I did not hear one peep out of them. Why? Legal surface.

DjokerIsTheBest · Apr 20, 2011

If they allow breaking of rules between points then why not allow a surface that breaks the rules?

TMF · Apr 20, 2011

If Costa and the Spaniards don’t like the surface, then don’t play. How do they like it if the Americans playing on their soil and complain about the slow clay? Geez, those whiney, spoiled Spaniards. They only think for themselves. Hope they lose big time.

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

TMF said:
If Costa and the Spaniards don’t like the surface, then don’t play. How do they like it if the Americans playing on their soil and complain about the slow clay? Geez, those whiney, spoiled Spaniards. They only think for themselves. Hope they lose big time.

You're missing the point completely genius. The surface isn't according to DC RULES. It's not about how fast it is, it's about familiarity and legality.

As I have said above, the frenchies presented spaniards with a MUCH FASTER surface, a indoor HC(kinda like in Paris masters) and the spaniards were humiliated 5-0. They did not say one thing about the surface, before or after. Why? It was legal, according to DC rules.

Anyway, the match is still on.

Deleted member 21996 · Apr 20, 2011

TennisandMusic said:
What gives.

actually it gives headaches to see a grownman like you in love...

oh... i heard it squeaks... shouldn't you complait about it???

jamesblakefan#1 · Apr 20, 2011

Apparently Courier says "It's the same court Spain played the US on in 2007. All players are very familiar with an indoor hard court."

http://twitter.com/#!/cs_tennis/status/60788976818208769

Deleted member 21996 · Apr 20, 2011

any one care to check the ITF page???

ITF Classification does not imply any form of ITF approval or endorsement.

kiki · Apr 20, 2011

westpac690 said:
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=11550&zoneid=25

Apparently, the Spaniards are all bent out of shape that they have to play on a surface that is not advantageous to them. Already making excuses if Nadal doesn't play well.
I'm starting to wonder how great any of the players of the current generation can really be considered to be if there has been such an effort to homogenize the sport, and the slow the speed of the courts. How great can we consider Nadal to be if he/Spanish Davis Cup team throws a hissy fit because they have to play on a fast surface?
Nadal is an all time great, but this reaction cheapens his status a bit in my book. He's my favorite current player, and I admire his effort and ability. I think he could excel if they did speed the courts up... But come on man, don't whine because you may have to play with a bit of adversity.
You want to be considered an all time great? Do it through different surfaces, different speeds, face the challenges of the courts you don't excel on and conquer them!
And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.

In old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would stay with his 5 Roland Garros...and nothing else.Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like 80´s or 90´s.

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

kiki said:
In old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would stay with his 5 Roland Garros...and nothing else.Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like 80´s or 90´s.

Clearly, let's make this about Nadal. I'm sure it was his decision in the end.

oneness · Apr 20, 2011

TennisandMusic said:
He was asked a question, he opined. :lol:

Yes, Nadal is behind everything! Nadal is the embodiment of evil. Continue your quest.

Man, does Nadal really own you that much to where you think about him, react to him, and let him sour your mood? What gives.

Gorecki said:
actually it gives headaches to see a grownman like you in love...

oh... i heard it squeaks... shouldn't you complait about it???

Yeah... as you grow old you should hate more.
Why don't you learn from some of the masters here, TennisandMusic.

TMF · Apr 20, 2011

namelessone said:
You're missing the point completely genius. The surface isn't according to DC RULES. It's not about how fast it is, it's about familiarity and legality.

As I have said above, the frenchies presented spaniards with a MUCH FASTER surface, a indoor HC(kinda like in Paris masters) and the spaniards were humiliated 5-0. They did not say one thing about the surface, before or after. Why? It was legal, according to DC rules.

Anyway, the match is still on.

Well, fast surfaces wasn’t giving the French the advantage like it’s giving to the American. Isner and Roddick will definitely benefitted for their serve. Who had a huge serve on the French side? Simon & Monfils are also a counter puncher. Plus, Nadal didn’t play in 2010, that’s the Spaniard’s problem.

Deleted member 21996 · Apr 20, 2011

soo Mr costa cannot read!!!

let someone tell mr Costa that it's a list of Approved balls and classified courts...

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

TMF said:
Well, fast surfaces wasn’t giving the French the advantage like it’s giving to the American. Isner and Roddick will definitely benefitted for their serve. Who had a huge serve on the French side? Simon & Monfils are also a counter puncher. Plus, Nadal didn’t play in 2010, that’s the Spaniard’s problem.

Llodra and Benneteau has quite a kicker himself when it's on.

The spaniards wouldn't have had a shot even with Nadal on the team. Llodra/Benneteau is a good doubles team and the only guy that can play worth a dam on very fast surfaces from the spanish team is lopez.

Look at llodra in paris masters last year to see what he can do on a fast surface.

Dedans Penthouse · Apr 20, 2011

The Spanish Davis Cup Captain is performing his duties as the Spanish Davis Cup Captain.

As well he should.

Game on.

Surely, life will probably go on. ..from there...

TMF · Apr 20, 2011

namelessone said:
Llodra and Benneteau has quite a kicker himself when it's on.

The spaniards wouldn't have had a shot even with Nadal on the team. Llodra/Benneteau is a good doubles team and the only guy that can play worth a dam on very fast surfaces from the spanish team is lopez.

Look at llodra in paris masters last year to see what he can do on a fast surface.

Djokovic and the Serb beat the French in the end. Had Nole didn’t play, they may not have won. You know that.

Nadal is their best player and had he showed up, the tide turn in their favor.

The 0-5 record is misleading b/c the last two matches was meaningless since Spain was already eliminated(0-3).

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

TMF said:
Djokovic and the Serb beat the French in the end. Had Nole didn’t play, they may not have won. You know that.

Nadal is their best player and had he showed up, the tide turn in their favor.

The 0-5 record is misleading b/c the last two matches was meaningless since Spain was already eliminated(0-3).

LOL, now everything is a Nadal-Djokovic battle on TW. It's ok, they are my 2 fav players after all

No, Nadal would not have made any big difference and I say this as a Nadal fan.

The surface was very fast and frenchies had home advantage. Not to mention that pretty much the only player that is very good on such a court from the spanish team is feliciano lopez.

Nadal is decent but not great indoors. Don't let the WTF fool you. That was a slow but low bouncing indoor court. Most indoor courts are way,way faster than that.

sureshs · Apr 20, 2011

With all this fuss, if Roddick loses to Nadal on the fast surface, it will be very disgraceful.

President · Apr 20, 2011

namelessone said:
LOL, now everything is a Nadal-Djokovic battle on TW. It's ok, they are my 2 fav players after all

No, Nadal would not have made any big difference and I say this as a Nadal fan.

The surface was very fast and frenchies had home advantage. Not to mention that pretty much the only player that is very good on such a court from the spanish team is feliciano lopez.

Nadal is decent but not great indoors. Don't let the WTF fool you. That was a slow but low bouncing indoor court. Most indoor courts are way,way faster than that.

I'm sure Nadal would have had a great chance of defeating Monfils and Llodra, even indoors. If Nadal was there, the entire dynamic of the tie would change. Llodra is a good player, and he played the best tennis of his life during the Paris Masters. Nevertheless, he is still never going to be a favorite against Nadal, no matter what the surface is, especially in such a high pressure situation. As for Monfils, he's a good player but Nadal is a great player.

With Nadal there, there would not have been as much pressure on Ferrer/Verdasco and I'm sure they could have snuck at least one win.

TheTruth · Apr 20, 2011

aldeayeah said:
The current DC rules says that the surface must be currently used in at least (1) a Slam, OR (2) three ATP tournaments with prize money > $350,000.
Good luck finding three such wood tournaments.

On the other hand, he reached the final...

I'm not a patriot, but I find the knee-jerk reaction in this thread laughable. If the Spanish team is being a poor sport, then the American team is blatantly cheating by ignoring the rules of the competition, if I've understood it right.

I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

Sid_Vicious · Apr 20, 2011

TheTruth said:
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

jamesblakefan#1 · Apr 20, 2011

Sid_Vicious said:
Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

Exactly. It's the same surface that the US used against Spain in 07 and in the final against Russia as well.

http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2011/04/tj.html

Dilettante · Apr 20, 2011

Gorecki said:
soo Mr costa cannot read!!!

let someone tell mr Costa that it's a list of Approved balls and classified courts...

It's you "genius" who apparently cannot understand what you read, not to say the implications of it.

One thing is the general classification of courts made but the ITF that you are —in a quite simplistic way— presenting as the core argument of the matter. But other thing and the important argument here are the rules of the 2001 Davis Cup competition. This is what the DC rules say:

For all ties in the World Group and Zonal Group I the court surface must be of a type used in a Grand Slam Tournament or in a minimum of three tournaments in the men's professional tour held in the year previous to tie.

That is what applies, the actual DC rules, not just a general list of surfaces you found in the ITF website or whatever, Einstein.

jackson vile · Apr 20, 2011

westpac690 said:
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=11550&zoneid=25

Apparently, the Spaniards are all bent out of shape that they have to play on a surface that is not advantageous to them. Already making excuses if Nadal doesn't play well.
I'm starting to wonder how great any of the players of the current generation can really be considered to be if there has been such an effort to homogenize the sport, and the slow the speed of the courts. How great can we consider Nadal to be if he/Spanish Davis Cup team throws a hissy fit because they have to play on a fast surface?
Nadal is an all time great, but this reaction cheapens his status a bit in my book. He's my favorite current player, and I admire his effort and ability. I think he could excel if they did speed the courts up... But come on man, don't whine because you may have to play with a bit of adversity.
You want to be considered an all time great? Do it through different surfaces, different speeds, face the challenges of the courts you don't excel on and conquer them!
And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.

What does that have to do with Nadal, why drag him into this???

Dedans Penthouse · Apr 20, 2011

TheTruth said:
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

Right on!....we're the *cheats* !!!! ... While I hope you've noticed that I went to bat for Costa going-to-bat for his team, that said:

I'm with you--the Captain (whatever the country) should have his country's back. God bless Costa, and best of luck to Espana vs. the United States.

That said, ya ever witness (first hand) a US Davis Cup team playing a tie south-of-the-border?

I did. It was pretty *gulp* interesting.

Oh, and from a historical standpoint....note the accomdations that were given by the 'not-so-cheating' defending Davis Cup Champion United States team in 1972 (unheralded).....allowing a "challenger" to HOST the Davis Cup finals in what turned out to be the challenger's "cheating" snakepit in Bucherest, Romania.

(feel free to argue this FACT)

...linespersons giving Romania's Ion Tiriac, leg messages during the deciding match (vs Smith), etc., etc.,

Now THAT my friend, among many other things at the time, WAS cheating at it's highest -- or lowest -- level.

do check out how YOUR (or maybe my 'mileage' is wrong) country got screwed beyond big-time by the Davis Cup set up in '72. Stan Smith = beat a cheating scumbag in the form of Ion Tiriac.

Facts.

Again, best o' luck to Espana & the United States.

Game on.

Bartelby · Apr 20, 2011

Read the tennis.com and you'll see the basis of the objection is that they customised the surface in 07 to the point that it no longer played like the commercial product, but it seems that will be declared legal but it's a respectable challenge.

Sid_Vicious said:
Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

TheTruth · Apr 20, 2011

Sid_Vicious said:
Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

Aldeyeah laid out the criteria for surface requests. The Americans didn't fulfill it. They're trying to pull a fast one. Most everyone agrees Costa was within his rights to complain. If you don't see it that way, that's fine, but that how I see it.

westpac690 · Apr 20, 2011

I think this would be a great time for Jimmy Conners or Johnny Mac to be the Davis Cup coach. No disrespect to Courier. But I would LOVE for the U.S. Davis Cup coach to call out the Spaniards publicly, tell them to put their big boy pants, leave their pacifiers in the Spanish clay and come play some tennis.
But that's just me. I'm kinda tired of all this fake civility in tennis.

TheTruth · Apr 20, 2011

Dedans Penthouse said:
Right on!....we're the *cheats* !!!! ... While I hope you've noticed that I went to bat for Costa going-to-bat for his team, that said:

I'm with you--the Captain (whatever the country) should have his country's back. God bless Costa, and best of luck to Espana vs. the United States.

That said, ya ever witness (first hand) a US Davis Cup team playing a tie south-of-the-border?

I did. It was pretty *gulp* interesting.

Oh, and from a historical standpoint....note the accomdations that were given by the 'not-so-cheating' defending Davis Cup Champion United States team in 1972 (unheralded).....allowing a "challenger" to HOST the Davis Cup finals in what turned out to be the challenger's "cheating" snakepit in Bucherest, Romania.

(feel free to argue this FACT)

...linespersons giving Romania's Ion Tiriac, leg messages during the deciding match (vs Smith), etc., etc.,

Now THAT my friend, among many other things at the time, WAS cheating at it's highest -- or lowest -- level.

do check out how YOUR (or maybe my 'mileage' is wrong) country got screwed beyond big-time by the Davis Cup set up in '72. Stan Smith = beat a cheating scumbag in the form of Ion Tiriac.

Facts.

Again, best o' luck to Espana & the United States.

Game on.

Sometimes the world ain't pretty.

Wow, on the cheating. It's bad no matter who does it, national pride has nothing to do with it.

cc0509 · Apr 20, 2011

westpac690 said:
I think this would be a great time for Jimmy Conners or Johnny Mac to be the Davis Cup coach. No disrespect to Courier. But I would LOVE for the U.S. Davis Cup coach to call out the Spaniards publicly, tell them to put their big boy pants, leave their pacifiers in the Spanish clay and come play some tennis.
But that's just me. I'm kinda tired of all this fake civility in tennis.

Oh God no! Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe are both nuts! Talented tennis players for sure, but, nuts! Their on court antics were disgusting to me. Much better to have Courier's civility IMO.

westpac690 · Apr 20, 2011

As a matter of fact, I'm calling it right now. If Roddick and Nadal play each other, Roddick is going to give Nadal a good old fashioned Texas @ss whoopin'. I predict Nadal will be moping all over the court with a sourpuss look on his face probably shooting glances at the chair umpire. Maybe arguing a few aces against him. MAYBE even, pulling up lame halfway through the second set. The last part may be pushing it. I expect Nadal to get frustrated but I don't think he would tank a match or blame the loss on injury like Andy Murray would.
If Roddick plays Ferrer, I expect Ferrer to lose his voice from the grunting and screaming at himself.

jamesblakefan#1 · Apr 20, 2011

Dilettante said:
It's you "genius" who apparently cannot understand what you read, not to say the implications of it.

One thing is the general classification of courts made but the ITF that you are —in a quite simplistic way— presenting as the core argument of the matter. But other thing and the important argument here are the rules of the 2001 Davis Cup competition. This is what the DC rules say:

For all ties in the World Group and Zonal Group I the court surface must be of a type used in a Grand Slam Tournament or in a minimum of three tournaments in the men's professional tour held in the year previous to tie.

That is what applies, the actual DC rules, not just a general list of surfaces you found in the ITF website or whatever, Einstein.

The discretion seems to be that the ITF HAS approved the surface in the past for Davis and Fed Cup.

Ideally the surface is available in Europe and it’s sold out there with another brand tag on it and it may be used in other European ATP tournaments, but ITF verifies surfaces by composition (There are Nine such categories) Premiere is an acrylic hard court, and there are lots and lots of similar ones in the ITF’s official 2011 list of approved surfaces.

http://www.livetennisguide.com/2011/04/20/spain-objects-united-state’s-davis-cup-stage/

Spain is making it as if US is coming in with some unknown moon surface. That's not the case at all. It's been approved in the past. Spain's just trying to find a loophole to make it a bit easier IMO.

So yes it does seem to me that Spain is trying to find a loophole to get this particular surface out, even though it's been legal and approved by the ITF in past ties.

And sorry if I'm not sympathetic for Spain.

2009 - Spain wins DC by playing 0 road ties.

Tennis_Monk · Apr 20, 2011

jamesblakefan#1 said:
The discretion seems to be that the ITF HAS approved the surface in the past for Davis and Fed Cup.

http://www.livetennisguide.com/2011/04/20/spain-objects-united-state’s-davis-cup-stage/

Spain is making it as if US is coming in with some unknown moon surface. That's not the case at all. It's been approved in the past. Spain's just trying to find a loophole to make it a bit easier IMO.

So yes it does seem to me that Spain is trying to find a loophole to get this particular surface out, even though it's been legal and approved by the ITF in past ties.

And sorry if I'm not sympathetic for Spain.

2009 - Spain wins DC by playing 0 road ties.

Your Id says James Blake fan. why would you be symphatetic to Spain

The only point i have to what indicated in your post is, just because ITF has used before for davis cup matches doesnt make it legal/approved.

If ITF rules says that it has to be used for main tour events, then it has to be. If it isnt, then it is a violation of rules.

Tennis_Monk · Apr 20, 2011

kiki said:
In old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would stay with his 5 Roland Garros...and nothing else.Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like 80´s or 90´s.

In the old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would have adopted his game so well that he would have had 17 slams by now. Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like in 80's or 90's.

jamesblakefan#1 · Apr 20, 2011

The International Tennis Federation clarifies what its rulebook says in regards to a Davis Cup nation choosing a court surface and says there is no “approved” list of courts to draw on.

The Spanish Tennis Federation has appealed to ITF over the surface chosen by the United States for their July Davis Cup quarterfinal in Austin. The surface, called Indoor Hard Premiere, is not on the list of surfaces and brands contained in the ITF’s 2011 "Approved Tennis Balls, Classified Surfaces & Recognized Courts" manual, but the ITF says that the list is only produced as a guide for people who are considering building courts.

The only rules that seems to apply to court surface is the one that says "for all ties in the World Group and Zonal Group - the court surface must be of a type used in a Grand Slam tournament or in a minimum of three tournaments in the men's professional tour held in the year previous to the tie."

Indoor Hard Premiere is used in the tournament in San Jose, California, and the company that produces it in Baltimore also manufactures a similar or identical surface called Latex-ite, which may have used in non-U.S. ATP tournaments, and is listed as being used in 2011 Davis Cup ties between Sweden and Serbia, Sweden and Russia, the Ukraine and the Netherlands, among others. The surface also appears to have been used at the Pilot Pen tournament in New Haven. The company would not respond to Tennis.com citing the sensitivity of the matter.

Indoor Hard Premiere surface was also used in five U.S. Davis Cup home ties and two Fed Cup home ties since 2007, including in the US’ defeat of Spain in Winston-Salem in the 2007 quarterfinals and the 2007 Davis Cup final.

The ITF’s decision on Spain’s appeal will be released on Thursday – Matthew Cronin

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/ticker.aspx?articleid=11576&zoneid=6

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

TheTruth said:
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

Cheats implies intention. I doubt it was the americans intention to start this whole discussion by putting in this surface. Courier probably thought "we played on this before so it should be no problem". And in the end he will probably be right.

TheTruth · Apr 20, 2011

namelessone said:
Cheats implies intention. I doubt it was the americans intention to start this whole discussion by putting in this surface. Courier probably thought "we played on this before so it should be no problem". And in the end he will probably be right.

I find it hard to believe the Davis Cup captain didn't read over the ITF restrictions, him being new and all. And once it was brought to his attention, why all the hoopla?

It used to be on the list.

It isn't on the list now.

There were shady circumstances the last time.

If he didn't know I don't understand why he wouldn't say "oh, we weren't aware of that."

Why should it even go to a hearing? "I see it's not on the list. My bad."

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's not on the list, why won't the Americans accept that?

NamRanger · Apr 20, 2011

TheTruth said:
I find it hard to believe the Davis Cup captain didn't read over the ITF restrictions, him being new and all. And once it was brought to his attention, why all the hoopla?

It used to be on the list.

It isn't on the list now.

There were shady circumstances the last time.

If he didn't know I don't understand why he wouldn't say "oh, we weren't aware of that."

Why should it even go to a hearing? "I see it's not on the list. My bad."

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's not on the list, why won't the Americans accept that?

The list is a guideline, not an be all and all list.

Murrayfan31 · Apr 20, 2011

Looking forward to this match being played on a real surface. They really need to bring back wood though.

Tyrus · Apr 20, 2011

Home court advantage.

TheTruth · Apr 20, 2011

NamRanger said:
The list is a guideline, not an be all and all list.

Really? Then why wouldn't they look at that list and inquire beforehand if it's a legitimate surface before announcing it as a done deal? It sounds weird to me.

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

Murrayfan31 said:
Looking forward to this match being played on a real surface. They really need to bring back wood though.

So all other surfaces are imaginary?

My mind = blown.

What have I been watching this whole time?

Murrayfan31 · Apr 20, 2011

namelessone said:
So all other surfaces are imaginary?

My mind = blown.

What have I been watching this whole time?

You know what I mean. A surface not suited for moonballers who can't play aggressive tennis and hit a lot of winners.

cc0509 · Apr 20, 2011

TheTruth said:
I find it hard to believe the Davis Cup captain didn't read over the ITF restrictions, him being new and all. And once it was brought to his attention, why all the hoopla?

It used to be on the list.

It isn't on the list now.

There were shady circumstances the last time.

If he didn't know I don't understand why he wouldn't say "oh, we weren't aware of that."

Why should it even go to a hearing? "I see it's not on the list. My bad."

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's not on the list, why won't the Americans accept that?

Here is the bottom line with this whole thing. The surface was used and approved by the ITF before in Davis Cup ties including against Spain in 2007. However, in 2007 Costa was not the DC Captain for Spain. The fact that the manufacturer of the surface was not on the ITF approved manufacturer's list is the ITF's problem since they have approved it before. It is just nobody contested the use of the surface before. Now Costa comes along and is the DC captain for Spain and he sees that there is a technicality and he must have figured, "why not bring this up." Can't blame Costa. He is just trying to get an advantage for his team. It is just a situation that went undisputed before. I can't see how the ITF will say the surface can't be used now since it has been used and approved by the ITF in the past. In essence it is just a hard court surface but the "manufacturer" is not on the approved list. This is all about technicalities and gamesmanship.

cc0509 · Apr 20, 2011

namelessone said:
Cheats implies intention. I doubt it was the americans intention to start this whole discussion by putting in this surface. Courier probably thought "we played on this before so it should be no problem". And in the end he will probably be right.

Exactly. It has been played on and approved by the ITF before. If anybody looks like an idiot it is the ITF but nobody contested it before so it was not an issue. Now Costa or his legal advisors have noticed the technicality and are raising the technicality. Can't blame Costa or Courier.

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

jamesblakefan#1 said:
The discretion seems to be that the ITF HAS approved the surface in the past for Davis and Fed Cup.

http://www.livetennisguide.com/2011/04/20/spain-objects-united-state’s-davis-cup-stage/

Spain is making it as if US is coming in with some unknown moon surface. That's not the case at all. It's been approved in the past. Spain's just trying to find a loophole to make it a bit easier IMO.

So yes it does seem to me that Spain is trying to find a loophole to get this particular surface out, even though it's been legal and approved by the ITF in past ties.

And sorry if I'm not sympathetic for Spain.

2009 - Spain wins DC by playing 0 road ties.

How?

They are NOT going to have a surface change. The spaniards know that. I can't believe that they are dumb as to believe that they will get a surface change so late in the proceedings.

But they do make a good point about the surface. The exact same surface(with the whole brand name thing and being customized and all that) is played only in SAP Open. And because the composition(of the court) is sold under different brand names over in Europe and some of the standards differ a bit means that the spaniards don't know which practice courts(HC of course) near them play similar to the one chosen by the US. See the whole "I thought Greenset was similar to Premiere" surprise the spaniards had back in 2007.

The ITF will clear this up and hopefully we won't have such discussions in the future.

I can't believe people are still talking about the court speed. This is not about the speed but about familiarity with the court.

I've made this point before. Spaniards got their ass handed to them by the French on a very fast indoor court and there wasn't any comment about the surface.

namelessone · Apr 20, 2011

Murrayfan31 said:
You know what I mean. A surface not suited for moonballers who can't play aggressive tennis and hit a lot of winners.

Ah, so you meant a real surface FOR YOU.

Murrayfan31 · Apr 20, 2011

namelessone said:
Ah, so you meant a real surface FOR YOU.

A real surface that stops anti-tennis.

Poor sport Spaniards

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