IF borg agrees to plays an exibition match with rafa then how many games can he win?

tusharlovesrafa · Jun 13, 2011

Actually i was now watching Rocky balboa....so this gave me an idea to come up with this hypothetical question...which may sound crazy but still.What if bjorn borg comes out of his retirment and agress to play an exibiton match with rafa on RG clay then how many games can he win?

jonnythan · Jun 13, 2011

Exhibition, Rafa plays easy on the legend and lets him have a few games.

In a competition he wouldn't get one.

zagor · Jun 13, 2011

tusharlovesrafa said:
Actually i was now watching Rocky balboa....so this gave me an idea to come up with this hypothetical question...which may sound crazy but still.What if bjorn borg comes out of his retirment and agress to play an exibiton match with rafa on RG clay then how many games can he win?

Stop watching crappy movies and drawing conclusions for real life from them.

tusharlovesrafa · Jun 13, 2011

zagor said:
Stop watching crappy movies and drawing conclusions for real life from them.

You a true fed fanboy..

FlamEnemY · Jun 13, 2011

zagor said:
Stop watching crappy movies and drawing conclusions for real life from them.

True.

If it's an exhibition match, Nadal goes easy and wins 6-4 6-3 (and 6-4 if it's five sets)

If it's a real match, Borg will be lucky to win a single game. No, wait, he'll be lucky even to go up 30-15.

For comparison, take Muster's comeback on tour. He's having trouble even playing challengers, even if he's actually younger than Borg and is more accustomed to the new racket technology.

laboule · Jun 13, 2011

Dont you dare compare Muster with Borg!

BounceHitBounceHit · Jun 13, 2011

As many as Rafa elects to allow.

No, seriously......tennis is an odd game. He might get a few. No more.

BHBH

Semi-Pro · Jun 13, 2011

tusharlovesrafa said:
You a true fed fanboy..

What does this have anything to do with him being a fan of fed?

This certainly rates as one of the dumbest threads I think we've had on this forum.

corners · Jun 13, 2011

None...if Rafa plays as he does on tour. In that scenario Borg only wins a game if he hits four consecutive aces.

Sentinel · Jun 13, 2011

tusharlovesrafa said:
Actually i was now watching Rocky balboa....so this gave me an idea to come up with this hypothetical question...which may sound crazy but still.What if bjorn borg comes out of his retirment and agress to play an exibiton match with rafa on RG clay then how many games can he win?

Shame on you, you should watch Sunny Deol movies and YOU JOLLY WELL KNOW THAT

It'll be decided in advance. Prolly 3 and 4.

goober · Jun 13, 2011

Borg is 55 years old. Have you seen him play lately?- not pretty. If he got any games it would be charity games. The only player of his generation who I think could a few games legit would be JMac playing Nadal on grass.

Deleted member 3771 · Jun 13, 2011

Didn't you just recently discover tennis..how many weeks has it been since you found out that Borg was a tennis player?:lol:

Borg would win a few......................points, if Nadal had to serve and volley every single point on his service games.

tusharlovesrafa said:
Actually i was now watching Rocky balboa....so this gave me an idea to come up with this hypothetical question...which may sound crazy but still.What if bjorn borg comes out of his retirment and agress to play an exibiton match with rafa on RG clay then how many games can he win?

SStrikerR · Jun 13, 2011

Connors in 5.

Tammo · Jun 13, 2011

Is it 2 out of 3 sets, or just to 8 games?

The-Champ · Jun 13, 2011

It all depends on Nadal, considering Borg's age.

JeMar · Jun 13, 2011

None.

(10)

Manus Domini · Jun 13, 2011

goober said:
Borg is 55 years old. Have you seen him play lately?- not pretty. If he got any games it would be charity games. The only player of his generation who I think could a few games legit would be JMac playing Nadal on grass.

on fast grass, I'd say JMac might be able to win a set actually.

BounceHitBounceHit · Jun 13, 2011

Manus Domini said:
on fast grass, I'd say JMac might be able to win a set actually.

An interesting thought. This is reasonable to consider, given Mac's highly unorthodox style.

BHBH

goober · Jun 13, 2011

Manus Domini said:
on fast grass, I'd say JMac might be able to win a set actually.

well considering Nadal has won wimbledon twice I would say no chance.

First JMac could not break Nadal. Second I still think you have in your mind the JMac of 5 years ago. I saw Jmac play about 6 months ago and he lost to an out of shape Michael Chang who was passing him pretty easily.

Manus Domini · Jun 13, 2011

goober said:
well considering Nadal has won wimbledon twice I would say no chance. First JMac could not break Nadal. Second I still think you have in your mind the JMac of 5 years ago. I saw Jmac play about 6 months ago and he lost to an out of shape Michael Chang who was passing him pretty easily.

A} I said fast grass. As in the grass of the 90s, not the grass of today. S&V tactics would actually work there, while Nadal's strategy would suffer.

B} I think the JMac of 5 years ago could be Nadal on 90s grass. Nadal isn't used to playing legendary S&Vers like Chang was.

Mick · Jun 13, 2011

nadal vs borg is not as interesting as wozniacki vs borg

Deleted member 3771 · Jun 13, 2011

how would John Mcenroe of today go against Serena williams on the Wimbledon Centre court if Mac had to use this wooden racket in the picture.

jonnythan · Jun 13, 2011

Mac would get blown off the court.

Mick · Jun 13, 2011

jonnythan said:
Mac would get blown off the court.

he would break a few racquets first. serena vs mac would be an amazing match. too bad it won't happen.

MichaelNadal · Jun 13, 2011

zagor said:
Stop watching crappy movies and drawing conclusions for real life from them.

Hey now, don't be dissing Rocky.

PSNELKE · Jun 13, 2011

Oh tush, that´s a pretty idiotical question.
If he agreed to play an exhibition match with Ralph I think he could even win this.
Ralph doesnt give a shiit about exos and he is a nice guy.

pc1 · Jun 13, 2011

Here's an interesting question, John McEnroe age 52, one set on fast grass against Nadal. Now Nadal should win and probably very easily but considering Mac gave Roddick problems for a set (tiebreaker in WTT, Roddick and Mac both had double set point and Roddick won the last point) last summer, can Mac give Nadal some trouble? McEnroe keeps in great shape.

timnz · Jun 13, 2011

How about...

If Borg was the same age as rafa and they were both playing with rackets from borgs era -how many games per set would rafa win? I would say one or two.

Deleted member 3771 · Jun 13, 2011

pc1 said:
Here's an interesting question, John McEnroe age 52, one set on fast grass against Nadal. Now Nadal should win and probably very easily but considering Mac gave Roddick problems for a set (tiebreaker in WTT, Roddick and Mac both had double set point and Roddick won the last point) last summer, can Mac give Nadal some trouble? McEnroe keeps in great shape.

14 year old Nadal could beat Pat Cash and could probably beat Mcenroe then too.So its probably a more realistic question to ask if 14year old Nadal could beat prime mcenroe on grass.

cucio · Jun 13, 2011

BULLZ1LLA · Jun 14, 2011

(I wonder if Borg would win more than 2008 Federer. Although I think Rafa would have more sympathy for Borg than for Federer. It would be hard for Rafa to tank points though without it being obvious, since he always play fairly error-free tennis compare to Federer [Federer could tank points vs Sampras and it'd look normal])

aphex · Jun 14, 2011

23 year old Borg would not get a game, let alone 55 year old borg.

tusharlovesrafa · Jun 14, 2011

aphex said:
23 year old Borg would not get a game, let alone 55 year old borg.

Agree with you ...Sir..

PSNELKE · Jun 14, 2011

aphex said:
23 year old Borg would not get a game, let alone 55 year old borg.

Ape, you serious bro? :lol:

whomad15 · Jun 14, 2011

now how about if they aren't allowed to use polyester strings?!
oooo and the tide turns slightly

aphex · Jun 14, 2011

PSNELKE said:
Ape, you serious bro? :lol:

Absolutely.

30 year old borg could barely take games off journeymen of the early 90s.

No, 23 year old borg would hardly get a game off Nadal.
Grass, yes.
Hard, probably.
Clay, absolutely not.

borg number one · Jun 14, 2011

When Borg tried to play in the early 1990's, he hadn't been practicing seriously for years. He himself called his comeback attempt as "madness". I think by then he wanted to play again, but it had been too late. Borg and Nadal are two great players, I don't think the matches would be lopsided one way or the other, if you equalize for equipment/technology, strings, racquets, and shoes. On the old courts at Wimbledon, I'd take Borg. On the new courts of Wimbledon, I'd take Borg. Indoors, Borg. On clay, very close I think. On hard courts, I think it would be very close. On hard courts, given Nadal's improvement there, it would be very close. Basically, close matches between the two.

This is Borg in 1979 with wood frames, at age 23.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMx--E0OhY (thanks Krosero)

This is Borg in 1981, versus Lendl, aged 25.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyuiEzBb7hk

Now, as to the scenario posed by the OP, of course, Borg would struggle to even win games given the age difference. Yet, here's what a player for Harvard experienced when he played Borg a couple of years ago.

"Tennis great Bjorn Borg taught at Harvard yesterday, but not in the classroom.

The 11-time Grand Slam champion schooled the Crimson’s Alexei Chijoff-Evans, a talented 21-year-old junior whom Borg ran nonstop for nearly an hour on the court at Murr Center. Borg, still lean but now gray at 53, barely broke a sweat, displaying an array of forehands, backhands, and surgically placed lobs.

“You’re so outrageously fit,’’ Chijoff-Evans told the living legend. “You’re just cruising. I’m dying.’’

After the practice they did have a match. Borg won 6-2, 6-1.

tusharlovesrafa · Jun 14, 2011

PSNELKE said:
Oh tush, that´s a pretty idiotical question.
If he agreed to play an exhibition match with Ralph I think he could even win this.
Ralph doesnt give a shiit about exos and he is a nice guy.

How dare you call my tactical and metholodical brain idiot:twisted:..

PSNELKE · Jun 14, 2011

tusharlovesrafa said:
How dare you call my tactical and metholodical brain idiot:twisted:..

Oh tush I never experienced you to be like this.

aphex · Jun 14, 2011

Forget equalization, it's not quantifiable.

What I'm saying is, if you take Nadal of 2011 and transport him through time to 1980, just before the FO final and put him on the court against Borg, Borg would not get a game.

tusharlovesrafa · Jun 14, 2011

PSNELKE said:
Oh tush I never experienced you to be like this.

i forgive you..

borg number one · Jun 14, 2011

aphex said:
Forget equalization, it's not quantifiable.

What I'm saying is, if you take Nadal of 2011 and transport him through time to 1980, just before the FO final and put him on the court against Borg, Borg would not get a game.

Borg "would not get a game" if Nadal was transported to 1980, but then it's not "quantifiable" to equalize for technology?? Why should we forget equalizing for equipment but then use a time machine in that way? With wood frames, Nadal would struggle mightily. If he had graphite frames and Borg had wood frames, Nadal would win easily, but of course that's completely stacked. How about Borg with graphite frames and Nadal with wood, same thing, that's very stacked, Borg wins easily of course.

Aside: Borg lost 32 games when he won the '78 FO. He has won three majors without losing a set, the '78 and '80 FO titles and the '76 W title. No one else has won W without losing a set, at least in the Open era.

aphex · Jun 14, 2011

borg number one said:
Borg "would not get a game" if Nadal was transported to 1980, but then it's not "quantifiable" to equalize for technology?? Why should we forget equalizing for equipment but then use a time machine in that way? With wood frames, Nadal would struggle mightily. If he had graphite frames and Borg had wood frames, Nadal would win easily, but of course that's completely stacked. How about Borg with graphite frames and Nadal with wood, same think, very stacked, Borg wins easily of course.

Aside: Borg lost 32 games when he won the '78 FO. He has won three majors without losing a set, the '78 and '80 FO titles and the '76 W title. No one else has won W without losing a set, at least in the Open era.

Yes, Nadal with a wood frame would struggle.

I'm not comparing probable players (how borg/nadal would play if this and that),
I'm comparing actual players.
The actual Borg of 1980 and the actual Nadal of 2011.

Greatness has nothing to do with playing level. You can only be compared to your own era.

borg number one · Jun 14, 2011

aphex said:
Yes, Nadal with a wood frame would struggle.

I'm not comparing probable players (how borg/nadal would play if this and that),
I'm comparing actual players.
The actual Borg of 1980 and the actual Nadal of 2011.

Greatness has nothing to do with playing level. You can only be compared to your own era.

I understand, but the equipment makes a HUGE difference. So you have the actual players, but they are using completely different equipment. So, since we are comparing players, it's just not reasonable to have one use wood frames while the other uses modern frames if we are using a hypo in which we take Nadal back to 1980. These kinds of questions will always be discussed. In 2020-2030, do you really think folks won't wonder how Borg, Sampras, Nadal, Federer, Laver, etc. would do against the top players of the time? Of course they will. I for one will argue that Federer and company could hold their own most likely. Who knows what equipment changes and other changes will take place by then though. If there are big changes from now until then, we'll wonder how they would do versus the top players of now would do against them. If folks say that "Nadal would get bageled", it would be mistaken in my opinion.

aphex · Jun 14, 2011

borg number one said:
I understand, but the equipment makes a HUGE difference. So you have the actual players, but they are using completely different equipment. So, since we are comparing players, it's just not reasonable to have one use wood frames while the other uses modern frames if we are using a hypo in which we take Nadal back to 1980. These kinds of questions will always be discussed. In 2020-2030, do you really think folks won't wonder how Borg, Sampras, Nadal, Federer, Laver, etc. would do against the top players of the time? Of course they will. I for one will argue that Federer and company could hold their own most likely. Who knows what equipment changes and other changes will take place by then though. If there are big changes from now until then, we'll wonder how they would do versus the top players of now would do against them. If folks say that "Nadal would get bageled", it would be mistaken in my opinion.

Jeez, who's talking about fair, unfair and all that stuff...the thread had a question, I'm giving my opinion regarding that question...

And, of course not...Federer wouldn't be able to get a game against the 2040 no.1.

As I said, you can only compared to your contemporaries.

borg number one · Jun 14, 2011

aphex said:
Jeez, who's talking about fair, unfair and all that stuff...the thread had a question, I'm giving my opinion regarding that question...

And, of course not...Federer wouldn't be able to get a game against the 2040 no.1.

As I said, you can only compared to your contemporaries.

Federer wouldn't be able to get a game against the 2040 #1, why wouldn't he? I do agree that when you compare players to their own contemporaries, only then do you have an "apples to apples" comparison.

On the exact question posed by the OP, my opinion would be a 50+ yr. old Borg would struggle to win even a game vs. 25 yr. old Nadal at the height of his powers. Yet, it's good to have some context for that very mismatched scenario.

PSNELKE · Jun 14, 2011

Epic stuff going on here guys: Ape takes side with Ralph. :shock:

aphex · Jun 14, 2011

PSNELKE said:
Epic stuff going on here guys: Ape takes side with Ralph. :shock:

I'm just stating the obvious:

Borg is a greater player than Ralph,
Ralph is a better player than Borg.

Manus Domini · Jun 14, 2011

TheNatural said:
14 year old Nadal could beat Pat Cash and could probably beat Mcenroe then too.So its probably a more realistic question to ask if 14year old Nadal could beat prime mcenroe on grass.

You're honestly comparing Pat Cash to John McEnroe? Nadal wouldn't be able to take a game off prime McEnroe on fast grass, and he'd lose a set to this JMac

borg number one · Jun 14, 2011

Manus Domini said:
You're honestly comparing Pat Cash to John McEnroe? Nadal wouldn't be able to take a game off prime McEnroe on fast grass, and he'd lose a set to this JMac

Cash would have been about 35 at that stage too, so a young Nadal was facing someone very much past his prime years. I think you're right too, Cash was good for a bit, but not in the same league as McEnroe as a player. He had flashes of brilliance, but overall, not in the same league. Here's Cash when he was red hot in 1984, at about 20 years of age. At 35, I'm sure he was way past his prime years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj8B-nLD-hM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmSRSUUZhRw

IF borg agrees to plays an exibition match with rafa then how many games can he win?

IF borg agrees to plays an exibition match with rafa then how many games can he win?

None..

atleast 1 games

atleast 2 games

atleast 3 games

4 games

5 games

6 games

7 games

8 games..

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