The AO should be played on Har Tru

V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
There should be four distinct surfaces.

The world plays on four Surfaces and they should all be represented at grand slams.

Hartru is not as slow as you think.....the USO was held on Hartru for a period and Connors actually beat Borg on Hartru .
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
VOLLEY KING said:
Carpet Can be made to be extremely slow.

The grandslam should represent surfaces people actually play on. Very few play on carpet .
Click to expand...

it can be faster than hardcourt. I didn't think har Tru was used that much these days either. Carpet was totally removed from tour a few years back, but it has a fairly rich history within the game and a lot of fans were angry carpet was fazed out.

I mean I don't see the need for a change, but I rather carpet than Har tru. Just my opinion.
 
syke

syke

Professional
Carpet or Astro Turf for AO...
There's no need for 2 GS hard courts.

I much prefer variety of surfaces..
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Paul Murphy said:
I'm an Australian and I'd be more than happy for it to be changed ..... to a very fast hardcourt.
Click to expand...

Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.
 
P

Paul Murphy

Hall of Fame
VOLLEY KING said:
Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.
Click to expand...

I'm not interested in copying the USO in the least - the USO surface is not fast these days.
I'd like a fast surface - the USO, Wimbledon and the FO aren't fast - a fast court AO would be the point of difference you seek.
 
P

Paul Murphy

Hall of Fame
VOLLEY KING said:
Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.
Click to expand...

Also, as a matter of personal preference I much prefer hardcourt over clay, grass, or anything else one would care to mention with the possible exception of carpet.
 
P

pvaudio

Legend
VOLLEY KING said:
Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

Why not have your own individual surface?

The FO is known for representing red clay

Wimbledon is known for grass

The USO is known for its harcourt

And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
Four surfaces have four different bounces.

The AO is just to similar to the USO.
Click to expand...
It's not spelled phonetically.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Paul Murphy said:
Also, as a matter of personal preference I much prefer hardcourt over clay, grass, or anything else one would care to mention with the possible exception of carpet.
Click to expand...

I prefer hc over everything else as well.....but it's not about what I prefer but rather having four distinct surfaces that would truly represent the greatest player.

Agassi was able to win on four distinct surfaces : rebound ace ,grass,HC, and red clay.

Agassiz achievement may actually be only true career grand slam.....greater than Laver who only won on grass surfaces & clay.

The AO needs to have it's own unique surface .
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Both the USO and the AO abandonned their only true tradition - grass.

The AO is cushioned hardcourt and the US is hardcourt, so I think there's a small difference.

In any event, the change accurately reflects the overall dominance of hardcourt.

What's the point of playing on a surface that's rarer just to create a difference?
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The AO is also played in indoor/outdoor stadia that serve other purposes, so its impossible for them to be dedicated clay courts.
 
sdont

sdont

Legend
Who still plays on HarTru these days?

I bet most players these days actually played their last match on carpet more recently than their last match on HarTru.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Bartelby said:
Both the USO and the AO abandonned their only true tradition - grass.

The AO is cushioned hardcourt and the US is hardcourt, so I think there's a small difference.

In any event, the change accurately reflects the overall dominance of hardcourt.

What's the point of playing on a surface that's rarer just to create a difference?
Click to expand...

I don't think your correct.....clay is played on by more people than grass is and I would say half the world plays on clay.

Most of Europe with the exception of Engalnd plays on clay.
South America mainly plays on clay. The USA plays on both hard and clay.

I would guess that Canada also plays on both . I have no idea about Africa , Australia or the middle east .

But I think clay is far from being "rare".

Half the world plays on clay....in fact it may be the most popular surface in the world yet it's only repped in one GS.

Rebound ace was rare.....and as unique as Australia.

Australia is rare and that's what makes it cool. Simply copying the USA.....is not what Australia is all about.
 
Last edited:
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
sdont said:
Who still plays on HarTru these days?

I bet most players these days actually played their last match on carpet more recently than their last match on HarTru.
Click to expand...

In the USA it's very popular. It's played on equally as much as hardcourt actually.

Carpet is rare
 
Bartelby

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Clay is not big in Australia, and in some large population centres it is non-existent, but it is big in Europe and the Americas.

Clay is very water-intensive so there's no possibility of the surface developing from its very small, and antiquated, base in Australia.



VOLLEY KING said:
I don't think your correct.....clay is played on by more people than grass is and I would say half the world plays on clay.

Most of Europe with the exception of Engalnd plays on clay.
South America mainly plays on clay. The USA plays on both hard and clay.

I would guess that Canada also plays on both . I have no idea about Africa , Australia or the middle east .

But I think clay is far from being "rare".
Click to expand...
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Murrayfan31 said:
I would love the Australian Open to be on a really fast court. US Open is really a medium court these days.
Click to expand...

It's not about making tennis the best for your favorite player.

Furthermore I don't believe the speed of the court would help serve and volley.

Serve and volley ended before the courts were changed . Serve and volley ended with Luxilon strings.

Yanick noah a serve and volleyer beat wilander on red clay . Pancetta another serve and volleyer beat Borg twice at the FO serving and volleying . McEnroe should have won the FO serve and volleying .

So it's not the court but the strings. Get rid of poly and you will have serve and volley tennis back.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Bartelby said:
Clay is not big in Australia, and in some large population centres it is non-existent, but it is big in Europe and the Americas.

Clay is very water-intensive so there's no possibility of the surface developing from its very small, and antiquated, base in Australia.
Click to expand...

Whoa!!! I don't agree at all. At least not in NYC.

There are at least as many clay courts here if not more than hard court.....I'm talking about private clubs.

Public parks are all hard court because they are cheaper that's true.

Although in NYC we have plenty of parks with clay actually.
 
Murrayfan31

Murrayfan31

Hall of Fame
VOLLEY KING said:
It's not about making tennis the best for your favorite player.

Furthermore I don't believe the speed of the court would help serve and volley.

Serve and volley ended before the courts were changed . Serve and volley ended with Luxilon strings.

Yanick noah a serve and volleyer beat wilander on red clay . Pancetta another serve and volleyer beat Borg twice at the FO serving and volleying . McEnroe should have won the FO serve and volleying .

So it's not the court but the strings. Get rid of poly and you will have serve and volley tennis back.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily looking for serve and volley. I'm just tired of these players getting rewarded for heavy topspin. The courts in Cincinnati would be ideal speed for me.
 
sdont

sdont

Legend
VOLLEY KING said:
In the USA it's very popular. It's played on equally as much as hardcourt actually.

Carpet is rare
Click to expand...

I meant tour players. Most top players are European these days and I don't know how many of them play the odd 250 tournament on HarTru in the USA.

Btw, the ATP reference it as a 'clay' tournament and doesn't make the difference with red clay.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Murrayfan31 said:
Not necessarily looking for serve and volley. I'm just tired of these players getting rewarded for heavy topspin. The courts in Cincinnati would be ideal speed for me.
Click to expand...

Djokovic and Federer are not heavy topspin.

If you are referring to Nadal I don't really think that's the reason he won the USO or Wimbledon.

On fast grass a guy by the name of Bjorn Borg I think won Wimbledon like 5 times? His game was similar to Nadal. And he also made the finals of the USO a billion times.

Wilander actually won the USO on a fast hardcourt and so did Vilas.
And others ......

On the other hand Connors beat Borg at the USO on Hartru and Soderling beat Nadal on red clay.

Pannetta beat Borg 2x on red clay......

I don't think speeding up the surface would make a difference.....but taking away polyester from Nadal would be far more devastating than the surface.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
sdont said:
I meant tour players. Most top players are European these days and I don't know how many of them play the odd 250 tournament on HarTru in the USA.

Btw, the ATP reference it as a 'clay' tournament and doesn't make the difference with red clay.
Click to expand...

Trust me they are very different .

In fact indoors Har Tru is actually pretty fast .....even possibly faster than some very slow hard courts.

It's hard to compare.....the bounce on Har Tru is just unique. It's different than other surfaces .
 
D

Deleted member 21996

Guest
i agree. they should change AO to a surface that suits San Rafael better
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
I actually think Har Tru would benefit Federer the most .

Hartru is unique .....it's somewhere I'm between hard and red clay .

But it's not just the speed the bounce is different so it's hard to compare .

Remember that Connors beat Borg on Hartru......

Djokovics ground strokes would not be as big and Nadals topspin would not bounce as high as on red clay.

Hartru for Federer would be like the porridge for goldilocks an the three bears ...... "just right"
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I've never played on Har Tru, what is it like?

If it plays like the AO surface as it is, but clay, then they might as well; if they're going to slow down the surface that much, they might as well help out the players by installing a more knee-friendly surface. My toes curl whenever Djokovic does one of those stretch-slide gets.

VOLLEY KING said:
Polyester .....take away the poly .....problem solved.
Click to expand...
Wow, so simple!
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Remember also that the FO clay is unique.....they have a formula for what they put in there and it's a secret. We know it's crushed brick but we don't know the exact mixture .

The footing is difficult as well as the bounce. Fed beat Nadal on clay just not at the FO.

Sampras won the Italian Open.

Connors beat Borg on Har Tru.

I'm telling you joker and Nadal would have a tough time .
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
phnx90 said:
I've never played on Har Tru, what is it like?

If it plays like the AO surface as it is, but clay, then they might as well; if they're going to slow down the surface that much, they might as well help out the players by installing a more knee-friendly surface. My toes curl whenever Djokovic does one of those stretch-slide gets.


Wow, so simple!
Click to expand...

Hartru is unique . It's difficult to describe.

It's not simply the speed....it bounces much lower than red clay.

The ball also bounces differently than a hard court. In fact I would say that the ball bounces higher on a hard court than Hartru .

That's why I say it would help Federer out.

You also do not slide nearly as much as red clay .....but more than a HC obviously.

It's unique
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
VOLLEY KING said:
Hartru is unique . It's difficult to describe.

It's not simply the speed....it bounces much lower than red clay.

The ball also bounces differently than a hard court. In fact I would say that the ball bounces higher on a hard court than Hartru .

That's why I say it would help Federer out.

You also do not slide nearly as much as red clay .....but more than a HC obviously.

It's unique
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is that it's basically the clay version of Plexicushion, but lower bouncing and better for the knees?

If that's so, I can kinda see where you're coming from...AO surface is just terrible.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
I guess the best way to describe Hartru is
"diet red clay"....lol.

It's similar in that they are both clay but the bounce is not quite as high, the speed is not quite as slow and the footing is not quite as difficult

Does that make sense?

It would neutralize a lot of Nadals advantages.

People tend to over simplify and say "fast court". I don't think that is the problem at all .

It's also the bounce of the ball.....I think Har Tru is "just right" for fed ....bounce is right height and speed is fast enough to help him but not to slow to help Nadal.
 
sdont

sdont

Legend
VOLLEY KING said:
Trust me they are very different .

In fact indoors Har Tru is actually pretty fast .....even possibly faster than some very slow hard courts.

It's hard to compare.....the bounce on Har Tru is just unique. It's different than other surfaces .
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's the same surface. It's just a different variety of clay, just like the USO and the AO are played on different varieties of HC.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
Not all clay is created equal.

Fed has beaten Nadal on clay just not at the FO.

Not all grass is created equal either and neither is all hardcourts.

I really think Federer has the advantage on Hartru over both Joker and Nadal.
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
VOLLEY KING said:
I guess the best way to describe Hartru is
"diet red clay"....lol.

It's similar in that they are both clay but the bounce is not quite as high, the speed is not quite as slow and the footing is not quite as difficult

Does that make sense?

It would neutralize a lot of Nadals advantages.

People tend to over simplify and say "fast court". I don't think that is the problem at all .

It's also the bounce of the ball.....I think Har Tru is "just right" for fed ....bounce is right height and speed is fast enough to help him but not to slow to help Nadal.
Click to expand...

So basically, fast, firm and slick clay, no?

And probably most importantly, less of a health hazard than HC.
 
G

GS

Professional
The Aussies should lay down a carpet of artificial grass in Melbourne---they could adjust its speed with sand. Then they'd have a nice 4th surface. Rod Laver himself might even approve of this.
But, will this ever happen? Nope.
 
D

Deleted member 21996

Guest
VOLLEY KING said:
they have a formula for what they put in there and it's a secret
Click to expand...

Pemberton recipe

This recipe is attributed to a diary owned by Coca-Cola inventor, John S. Pemberton, just before his death in 1888. (U.S. measures).[17][18]
Ingredients: 1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
3 oz (85 g) citric acid
1 US fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
1 US qt (946 ml; 33 imp fl oz) lime juice
2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
30 lb (14 kg) sugar
4 US fl oz (118.3 ml) powder extract of cocaine (decocainized flavor essence of the coca leaf).
2.5 US gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
caramel sufficient

"Mix caffeine acid and lime juice in 1 quart boiling water add vanilla and flavoring when cool."
Flavoring (Merchandise 7X): 1 qrt alcohol
80 oil orange
40 oil cinnamon
120 oil lemon
20 oil coriander
40 oil nutmeg
40 oil neroli

"Let stand 24 hours."
 
Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
I have never played on HAr-Tru in my life, lol. Never even seen it. I do, however, play on the AO surface every day and love it. Thing is, the AO organisers redo it every year, and specify teh slowest version of plexicushion. Our club has a much faster grade and it's a fantastic surface.

However, I actually feel the AO version is distinctly different from the other three slams, and therefore no bad thing.
 
B

Biscuitmcgriddleson

Professional
Timbo's hopeless slice said:
I have never played on HAr-Tru in my life, lol. Never even seen it. I do, however, play on the AO surface every day and love it. Thing is, the AO organisers redo it every year, and specify teh slowest version of plexicushion. Our club has a much faster grade and it's a fantastic surface.

However, I actually feel the AO version is distinctly different from the other three slams, and therefore no bad thing.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see them accidentally get the fast stuff and have something similar to Paris in 2010.
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
VOLLEY KING said:
There should be four distinct surfaces.

The world plays on four Surfaces and they should all be represented at grand slams.

Hartru is not as slow as you think.....the USO was held on Hartru for a period and Connors actually beat Borg on Hartru .
Click to expand...

VOLLEY KING said:
Carpet Can be made to be extremely slow.

The grandslam should represent surfaces people actually play on. Very few play on carpet .
Click to expand...

Agreed. AO should be completely indoor, court surface similar to WTF. Many parts of the world play exclusively indoor during winter on similar surface (Canada, USA NE and other parts, northern Europe, etc). AO is played during northern hemi winter, so would be easy for viewers to identify with. Plus, would solve the Australian summer heat problem.

I'm sure you agree. Unless of course you're a Rafa fan just looking to add another clay major for your boy.
 
V

VOLLEY KING

Banned
OrangePower said:
Agreed. AO should be completely indoor, court surface similar to WTF. Many parts of the world play exclusively indoor during winter on similar surface (Canada, USA NE and other parts, northern Europe, etc). AO is played during northern hemi winter, so would be easy for viewers to identify with. Plus, would solve the Australian summer heat problem.

I'm sure you agree. Unless of course you're a Rafa fan just looking to add another clay major for your boy.
Click to expand...

Actually I completely agree.

.
 
Last edited:
P

Paul Murphy

Hall of Fame
GS said:
The Aussies should lay down a carpet of artificial grass in Melbourne---they could adjust its speed with sand. Then they'd have a nice 4th surface. Rod Laver himself might even approve of this.
But, will this ever happen? Nope.
Click to expand...

Artificial grass is a dreadful surface.
Nice for the elderly perhaps but there's a reason it's not used in pro tennis - it's rubbish.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

V
Har Tru : the forgotten surface
Replies
15
Views
2K
mikeler
mikeler
A
Adjustments from hard to har tru
Replies
13
Views
3K
achokshi99
A
J
Playing on har-tru (vs hard) - strategy change?
Replies
3
Views
2K
JimW
J
King of Aces
Will Agassi be the last true "grand slam" winner? Did Fed ever win on rebound ace?
2
Replies
86
Views
4K
egn
egn
N
Junior players on red clay vs. har-tru
Replies
9
Views
3K
mikeler
mikeler
Top