Laver #2

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Popularity wise, yes. Quality food, no. But Fed is popular and has quality. Anyway, the players are not rated by popularity, and if it was instead of quality, Laver might be ahead of Federer. Since it's about grand slam performance, results and other achievements, Fed is ahead. There's no reason for a fuss...Laver is #2, not that he was placed at #10. That's a great honor.

TMF,

Can I ask you a question? Do you ever find any flaws in Federer? I find flaws in every player.

I just would find it refreshing for once if you wrote something that doesn't praise Federer.

I'll write a negative comment about Laver. He could net his forehand volley more than he should.
 

Carsomyr

Legend
If there is a blemish on Laver it's him letting Rosewall beat him in so many big finals, and his poor performances at the majors in the 1970s, by his standards. Oh, and losing a 5-setter to a 41 year old Gonzales in early 1970, when Laver was at the peak of his powers and Gonzales nearly a decade past his best.

Not sure if the first two are really blemishes; Laver had pretty significant wins over Rosewall and was far and away the best player in the 60s; can't expect a guy to dominate multiple decades, can you?

However, your last point is interesting. Don't know how much weight it lends toward an argument against Laver's candidacy of GOAT, but it does make Gonzales' assessment of his peak over Laver's all the more plausible.

While not a blemish, per se, it is also interesting to note that during Laver's Grand Slam campaign, Australians made up a whopping 42% of seeded players. Conversely, 40 years later, when Federer was just two sets from the Grand Slam, the most represented country in the top 16 seeds was Spain, who accounted for half 1969's mark with 21%.
 

urban

Legend
All these Australians are in the top 100 of Tennis Channel or top 50 men. I would assume, they would be seeded today. Don't know how many current Spaniards are on this list, despite the favoring of recent players.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Not sure if the first two are really blemishes; Laver had pretty significant wins over Rosewall and was far and away the best player in the 60s

Fair enough. I just thought I should mention that Rosewall did beat Laver in a lot of big finals even though Laver pretty much dominated their head-to-head from 1964 onwards.

can't expect a guy to dominate multiple decades, can you?

I mean Laver's performances in the majors post-1969. I'm talking about the early 1970s mainly. Laver's loss to Roger Taylor at 1970 Wimbledon is one of the biggest upsets ever seen at Wimbledon. Laver's best result in a major after 1969 was one quarter final, at 1971 Wimbledon, despite Laver winning over 20 tournaments in 1970-1971. That's a "blemish", however big or small one wishes to make it.
 

kiki

Banned
TMF,

Can I ask you a question? Do you ever find any flaws in Federer? I find flaws in every player.

I just would find it refreshing for once if you wrote something that doesn't praise Federer.

I'll write a negative comment about Laver. He could net his forehand volley more than he should.

I´ll help you out - just for nothing-

Second flaw: was ugly
 

kiki

Banned
Not sure if the first two are really blemishes; Laver had pretty significant wins over Rosewall and was far and away the best player in the 60s; can't expect a guy to dominate multiple decades, can you?

However, your last point is interesting. Don't know how much weight it lends toward an argument against Laver's candidacy of GOAT, but it does make Gonzales' assessment of his peak over Laver's all the more plausible.

While not a blemish, per se, it is also interesting to note that during Laver's Grand Slam campaign, Australians made up a whopping 42% of seeded players. Conversely, 40 years later, when Federer was just two sets from the Grand Slam, the most represented country in the top 16 seeds was Spain, who accounted for half 1969's mark with 21%.

So What?

Seeded players are the best players, and it makes no difference where they come or not¡¡¡¡
 

Carsomyr

Legend
So What?

Seeded players are the best players, and it makes no difference where they come or not¡¡¡¡

When you have more and more tennis players emerging from more and more countries, it suggests that the game has more depth as a much wider group of people have access to tennis facilities and resources.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Popularity wise, yes. Quality food, no. But Fed is popular and has quality. Anyway, the players are not rated by popularity, and if it was instead of quality, Laver might be ahead of Federer. Since it's about grand slam performance, results and other achievements, Fed is ahead. There's no reason for a fuss...Laver is #2, not that he was placed at #10. That's a great honor.

Exactly! "Popularity wise" Federer is the greatest tennis player of all time. "[Tennis] quality wise" he may not be. See how easy that was, PMS?
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
TMF,

Can I ask you a question? Do you ever find any flaws in Federer? I find flaws in every player.

I just would find it refreshing for once if you wrote something that doesn't praise Federer.

I'll write a negative comment about Laver. He could net his forehand volley more than he should.

I can think of a few. His volley technique sucks, he chops the ball, and his net game is weak compared to other all time great net players. His topspin backhand is a bit irratic and he chops his underspin so much that he has little margin for error. How's that?
 
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kiki

Banned
Fair enough. I just thought I should mention that Rosewall did beat Laver in a lot of big finals even though Laver pretty much dominated their head-to-head from 1964 onwards.



I mean Laver's performances in the majors post-1969. I'm talking about the early 1970s mainly. Laver's loss to Roger Taylor at 1970 Wimbledon is one of the biggest upsets ever seen at Wimbledon. Laver's best result in a major after 1969 was one quarter final, at 1971 Wimbledon, despite Laver winning over 20 tournaments in 1970-1971. That's a "blemish", however big or small one wishes to make it.

Keeo your horses¡ Laver being beaten at Wimbledon is, of course an upset.But little praise has been poure dover a man that was both a W and FH semifinalist, Roger Taylor.

So, it is more of a surprise for Laver being beaten before the finals ( he never lost a Wimbledon final, not like Borg or Federer and much alike Sampras), but not because it was a solid top 15 player like Taylor who beat him...
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
When you have more and more tennis players emerging from more and more countries, it suggests that the game has more depth as a much wider group of people have access to tennis facilities and resources.

But, depth doesn't necessarily make the quality at the top better. For example, for decades, baseball writers and fans have complained that league expansion has diluted the quality of the game and bloated batting statistics allowing for more starting pitchers that, otherwise, aren't good enough to play in the major leagues.
 

kiki

Banned
When you have more and more tennis players emerging from more and more countries, it suggests that the game has more depth as a much wider group of people have access to tennis facilities and resources.

Thta´s a false argument in itself, as I posted before.If you talk me about top 100, top 500, top 1000 players in the world, I´d say you may be right.But, top 20-30 players, it is a matter of quality.a guy like, say, Stolle or Pilic, to name a second setringer, has won majors or at least reached major finals...now, take Tipsarevic or Fish...the comparative is just so ridiculous that any seasoned tennis fan would laugh his/her ass off...
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
TMF,

Can I ask you a question? Do you ever find any flaws in Federer? I find flaws in every player.

I just would find it refreshing for once if you wrote something that doesn't praise Federer.

I'll write a negative comment about Laver. He could net his forehand volley more than he should.

Of course every player has flaws. My post never implied that certain player is perfect, but it's about accomplishment.:|
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly! "Popularity wise" Federer is the greatest tennis player of all time. "[Tennis] quality wise" he may not be. See how easy that was, PMS?

And you too...pay attention. TTC is not rating on popularity, but total Grand Slam titles, performances, ranking, records, etc.

You can argue Borg and Laver is more popular than Fed in their respective era, but that's another topic.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Keeo your horses¡ Laver being beaten at Wimbledon is, of course an upset.But little praise has been poure dover a man that was both a W and FH semifinalist, Roger Taylor.

So, it is more of a surprise for Laver being beaten before the finals ( he never lost a Wimbledon final, not like Borg or Federer and much alike Sampras), but not because it was a solid top 15 player like Taylor who beat him...

Losing in the early round is far worse than losing in the final.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
When you have more and more tennis players emerging from more and more countries, it suggests that the game has more depth as a much wider group of people have access to tennis facilities and resources.

You are not going to convince the old-timers because they can't accept the truth. However you are absolutely correct.
 

kiki

Banned
Fair enough. I just thought I should mention that Rosewall did beat Laver in a lot of big finals even though Laver pretty much dominated their head-to-head from 1964 onwards.



I mean Laver's performances in the majors post-1969. I'm talking about the early 1970s mainly. Laver's loss to Roger Taylor at 1970 Wimbledon is one of the biggest upsets ever seen at Wimbledon. Laver's best result in a major after 1969 was one quarter final, at 1971 Wimbledon, despite Laver winning over 20 tournaments in 1970-1971. That's a "blemish", however big or small one wishes to make it.

Funny - or sad- thing about Rosewall is that he was a natural left hander, but his dad made him play with the right hand, because, back then, left handers were not " right".He used to say that he still had more power with his left hand and he would have gotten a better first serve.Conclusion is that a left handed serving Rosewall would have had a harder serve and that is, according to him, what he lacked to be Wimbledon champion.So, Rosewall can blame his dad he is not a Wimbly champio...would he still have had the same precision if being a lefty?

maybe, a left handed Rosewall would now be the undisputed GOAT...
 

kiki

Banned
You are not going to convince the old-timers because they can't accept the truth. However you are absolutely correct.

As I said, and none of you newtards has come with a response, imagine US splits into 51 countries.Would Californian Sampras beat US Sampras? would New Yorks Mc Enroe be a better player than US Mc Enroe?

C´mon guys, I am waiting...
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
As I said, and none of you newtards has come with a response, imagine US splits into 51 countries.Would Californian Sampras beat US Sampras? would New Yorks Mc Enroe be a better player than US Mc Enroe?

C´mon guys, I am waiting...

NONSENSE.

1969 Australian Open

There are over half of the players from Aussie representing this slam event. Did Aussie was split into 50 different countries ??

Not to mention it's a smaller draw with Laver only have to win 5 matches instead of 7 today.

I rest my case.
 

Nadal_Power

Semi-Pro
It's all about competing against the entire field. And since Laver had a smaller field, for him losing in the early round is even more worse.

I think we had ''entire field'' in stupid Indian Wells and Miami tournaments.. how many good matches you saw there?

We had 8 from 10 best players in the world in Dubai.. again, nothing good
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
And you too...pay attention. TTC is not rating on popularity, but total Grand Slam titles, performances, ranking, records, etc.

You can argue Borg and Laver is more popular than Fed in their respective era, but that's another topic.

Here are the records of Federer, Borg and Laver:

Roger Federer
1999 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
1999 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
2000 Australian Open: Round of 32 Loser
2000 French Open: Round of 16 Loser
2000 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
2000 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
2001 Australian Open: Round of 32 Loser
2001 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
2001 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
2001 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
2002 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
2002 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
2002 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
2002 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
2003 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
2003 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
2003 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2003 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
2004 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2004 French Open: Round of 32 Loser
2004 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2004 US Open: CHAMPION
2005 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
2005 French Open: Semi Final Loser
2005 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2005 US Open: CHAMPION
2006 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2006 French Open: Runner-up
2006 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2006 US Open: CHAMPION
2007 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2007 French Open: Runner-up
2007 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2007 US Open: CHAMPION
2008 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
2008 French Open: Runner-up
2008 Wimbledon: Runner-up
2008 US Open: CHAMPION
2009 Australian Open: Runner-up
2009 French Open: CHAMPION
2009 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2009 US Open: Runner-up
2010 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2010 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
2010 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
2010 US Open: Semi Final Loser
2011 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
2011 French Open: Runner-up
2011 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
2011 US Open: Semi Final Loser
2012 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser


Bjorn Borg
1973 French Open: Round of 16 Loser

1973 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 French Open: CHAMPION
1974 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1974 US Open: Round of 64 Loser
1975 French Open: CHAMPION
1975 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1975 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1976 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
1976 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1976 US Open: Runner-up
1977 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1977 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1978 French Open: CHAMPION
1978 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1978 US Open: Runner-up
1979 French Open: CHAMPION
1979 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1979 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1980 French Open: CHAMPION
1980 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1980 US Open: Runner-up
1981 French Open: CHAMPION
1981 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1981 US Open: Runner-up


Rod Laver
1956 Australian Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1956 French Championships: Round of 128 Loser
1956 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
1956 US Championships: Round of 128 Loser
1957 Australian Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1958 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1958 French Championships: Round of 64 Loser
1958 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1958 US Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1959 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1959 French Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1959 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1959 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1960 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1960 French Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1960 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1960 US Championships: Runner-up
1961 Australian Championships: Runner-up
1961 French Championships: Semi Final Loser
1961 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1961 US Championships: Runner-up
1962 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1962 French Championships: CHAMPION
1962 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1962 US Championships: CHAMPION
1963 French Pro: Runner-up
1963 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1963 US Pro: Runner-up
1964 French Pro: Runner-up
1964 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1964 US Pro: CHAMPION
1965 French Pro: Runner-up
1965 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1965 US Pro: Runner-up
1966 French Pro: Runner-up
1966 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1966 US Pro: CHAMPION
1967 French Pro: CHAMPION
1967 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1967 US Pro: CHAMPION
1967 Wimbledon Pro: CHAMPION
1968 French Open: Runner-up
1968 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1968 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1969 Australian Open: CHAMPION
1969 French Open: CHAMPION
1969 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1969 US Open: CHAMPION
1970 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1970 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1971 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1971 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1972 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1975 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1977 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Here are the records of Federer, Borg and Laver:

Roger Federer
1999 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
1999 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
2000 Australian Open: Round of 32 Loser
2000 French Open: Round of 16 Loser
2000 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
2000 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
2001 Australian Open: Round of 32 Loser
2001 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
2001 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
2001 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
2002 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
2002 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
2002 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
2002 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
2003 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
2003 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
2003 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2003 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
2004 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2004 French Open: Round of 32 Loser
2004 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2004 US Open: CHAMPION
2005 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
2005 French Open: Semi Final Loser
2005 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2005 US Open: CHAMPION
2006 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2006 French Open: Runner-up
2006 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2006 US Open: CHAMPION
2007 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2007 French Open: Runner-up
2007 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2007 US Open: CHAMPION
2008 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
2008 French Open: Runner-up
2008 Wimbledon: Runner-up
2008 US Open: CHAMPION
2009 Australian Open: Runner-up
2009 French Open: CHAMPION
2009 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
2009 US Open: Runner-up
2010 Australian Open: CHAMPION
2010 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
2010 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
2010 US Open: Semi Final Loser
2011 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
2011 French Open: Runner-up
2011 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
2011 US Open: Semi Final Loser
2012 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser


Bjorn Borg
1973 French Open: Round of 16 Loser

1973 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1974 French Open: CHAMPION
1974 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1974 US Open: Round of 64 Loser
1975 French Open: CHAMPION
1975 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1975 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1976 French Open: Quarter Final Loser
1976 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1976 US Open: Runner-up
1977 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1977 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1978 French Open: CHAMPION
1978 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1978 US Open: Runner-up
1979 French Open: CHAMPION
1979 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1979 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1980 French Open: CHAMPION
1980 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1980 US Open: Runner-up
1981 French Open: CHAMPION
1981 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1981 US Open: Runner-up


Rod Laver
1956 Australian Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1956 French Championships: Round of 128 Loser
1956 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser
1956 US Championships: Round of 128 Loser
1957 Australian Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1958 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1958 French Championships: Round of 64 Loser
1958 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1958 US Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1959 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1959 French Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1959 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1959 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1960 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1960 French Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1960 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1960 US Championships: Runner-up
1961 Australian Championships: Runner-up
1961 French Championships: Semi Final Loser
1961 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1961 US Championships: Runner-up
1962 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1962 French Championships: CHAMPION
1962 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1962 US Championships: CHAMPION
1963 French Pro: Runner-up
1963 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1963 US Pro: Runner-up
1964 French Pro: Runner-up
1964 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1964 US Pro: CHAMPION
1965 French Pro: Runner-up
1965 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1965 US Pro: Runner-up
1966 French Pro: Runner-up
1966 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1966 US Pro: CHAMPION
1967 French Pro: CHAMPION
1967 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1967 US Pro: CHAMPION
1967 Wimbledon Pro: CHAMPION
1968 French Open: Runner-up
1968 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1968 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1969 Australian Open: CHAMPION
1969 French Open: CHAMPION
1969 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1969 US Open: CHAMPION
1970 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1970 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1971 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1971 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1972 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1975 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1977 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser

I think Borg winning 11 out of 27 total majors he played in is about as impressive a record as any in the history of men's tennis. Certainly as impressive as Fed's 16 out of 51 attempts!
 
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kiki

Banned
I think Borg winning 11 out of 27 total majors he played in is about as impressive a record as any in the history of men's tennis. Certainly as impressive as Fed's 16 out of 51 attempts!

It is.a great ratio. and he almost never got beaten before the semis or finals.Still short of Laver´s 2 GS ( specially his last one, at 31)
 

kiki

Banned
NONSENSE.

1969 Australian Open

There are over half of the players from Aussie representing this slam event. Did Aussie was split into 50 different countries ??

Not to mention it's a smaller draw with Laver only have to win 5 matches instead of 7 today.

I rest my case.

You are comparing apples with oranges.It was you who brought up that tennis was better now because more countries in.

Ask if they feel the same to tennis fans ( seasoned ones) in Mexico,UK,India,South Africa,Australia,New Zealand,Germany,Brazil,Holland,Czech republik, Hungary,Italy...and the United States.

As for UK, just in case you got tempted to bring Murray in, they had 4 top 50 players like Taylor,Mottram,Cox and LLoyd and even got to a DC final ( 1978 )...not to mention Wade,Jones and Barker in the women´s field...
 

kiki

Banned
16/51 =31%
11/27 =40%

...not to mention that Borg had to play guys like Newcombe,Ashe,Nastase,Smith,Kodes,Orantes,Panatta,Vilas, Lendl,Connors,Mac,Tanner and Gerulaitis compared to Bagdhatis,Davidenlho,Sodelring,Berdich,Tsonga,del Potro,Nalbandian, Old Agassi...let´s save Nadal,Djokovic,Safin and Hewitt.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Here's Pancho Gonzales and Ken Rosewall's as well:

Pancho Gonzales
1947 US Championships: Round of 64 Loser
1948 US Championships: CHAMPION
1949 French Championships: Semi Final Loser
1949 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1949 US Championships: CHAMPION
1950 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1951 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1951 US Pro: Runner-up (2nd in Round Robin)
1952 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1952 US Pro: Runner-up
1953 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1953 US Pro: CHAMPION
1954 US Pro: CHAMPION
1955 US Pro: CHAMPION
1956 French Pro: Runner-up
1956 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1956 US Pro: CHAMPION
1956 Forest Hills Pro: CHAMPION
1957 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1957 US Pro: CHAMPION
1957 Forest Hills Pro: CHAMPION
1958 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1958 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1958 US Pro: CHAMPION
1958 Forest Hills Pro: CHAMPION
1959 US Pro: CHAMPION
1959 Forest Hills Pro: Runner-up
1961 French Pro: Runner-up
1961 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1961 US Pro: CHAMPION
1963 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1964 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1964 US Pro: Runner-up
1965 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1967 Wimbledon Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1968 French Open: Semi Final Loser
1968 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1968 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1969 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1969 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1969 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1970 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1971 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1971 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1972 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1972 US Open: Round of 128 Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 128 Loser


Ken Rosewall
1951 Australian Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1952 Australian Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1952 French Championships: Round of 64 Loser
1952 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1952 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1953 French Championships: CHAMPION
1953 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1953 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1954 Australian Championships: Semi Final Loser
1954 French Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1954 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1954 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1955 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1955 Wimbledon: Semi Final Loser
1955 US Championships: Runner-up
1956 Australian Championships: Runner-up
1956 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1956 US Championships: CHAMPION
1957 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1957 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1957 Forest Hills Pro: Round Robin exit
1958 French Pro: CHAMPION
1958 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1958 Forest Hills Pro: Runner-up
1959 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1959 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1959 Forest Hills Pro: Round Robin exit
1960 French Pro: CHAMPION
1960 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1961 French Pro: CHAMPION
1961 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1962 French Pro: CHAMPION
1962 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1963 French Pro: CHAMPION
1963 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1963 US Pro: CHAMPION
1964 French Pro: CHAMPION
1964 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1964 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1965 French Pro: CHAMPION
1965 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1965 US Pro: CHAMPION
1966 French Pro: CHAMPION
1966 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1966 US Pro: Runner-up
1967 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1967 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1967 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1967 Wimbledon Pro: Runner-up
1968 French Open: CHAMPION
1968 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1968 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1969 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1969 French Open: Runner-up
1969 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1969 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1970 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1970 US Open: CHAMPION
1971 Australian Open: CHAMPION
1971 Wimbledon: Semi Final Loser
1972 Australian Open: CHAMPION
1972 US Open: Round of 64 Loser
1973 Australian Open: Round of 32 Loser
1973 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1974 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1974 US Open: Runner-up
1975 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1976 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
1977 Australian Open (January): Semi Final Loser
1977 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1977 Australian Open (December): Quarter Final Loser
1978 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
 
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kiki

Banned
Here's Pancho Gonzales and Ken Rosewall's as well:

Pancho Gonzales
1947 US Championships: Round of 64 Loser
1948 US Championships: CHAMPION
1949 French Championships: Semi Final Loser
1949 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1949 US Championships: CHAMPION
1950 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1951 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1951 US Pro: Runner-up (2nd in Round Robin)
1952 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1952 US Pro: Runner-up
1953 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1953 US Pro: CHAMPION
1954 US Pro: CHAMPION
1955 US Pro: CHAMPION
1956 French Pro: Runner-up
1956 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1956 US Pro: CHAMPION
1957 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1957 US Pro: CHAMPION
1958 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1958 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1958 US Pro: CHAMPION
1959 US Pro: CHAMPION
1961 French Pro: Runner-up
1961 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1961 US Pro: CHAMPION
1963 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1964 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1964 US Pro: Runner-up
1965 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1967 Wimbledon Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1968 French Open: Semi Final Loser
1968 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1968 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1969 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1969 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1969 US Open: Round of 16 Loser
1970 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1971 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1971 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1972 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1972 US Open: Round of 128 Loser
1973 US Open: Round of 128 Loser


Ken Rosewall
1951 Australian Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1952 Australian Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1952 French Championships: Round of 64 Loser
1952 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1952 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1953 French Championships: CHAMPION
1953 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1953 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1954 Australian Championships: Semi Final Loser
1954 French Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1954 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1954 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1955 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1955 Wimbledon: Semi Final Loser
1955 US Championships: Runner-up
1956 Australian Championships: Runner-up
1956 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1956 US Championships: CHAMPION
1957 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1957 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1958 French Pro: CHAMPION
1958 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1959 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1959 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1960 French Pro: CHAMPION
1960 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1961 French Pro: CHAMPION
1961 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1962 French Pro: CHAMPION
1962 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1963 French Pro: CHAMPION
1963 Wembley Pro: CHAMPION
1963 US Pro: CHAMPION
1964 French Pro: CHAMPION
1964 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1964 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1965 French Pro: CHAMPION
1965 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1965 US Pro: CHAMPION
1966 French Pro: CHAMPION
1966 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1966 US Pro: Runner-up
1967 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1967 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1967 US Pro: Semi Final Loser
1967 Wimbledon Pro: Runner-up
1968 French Open: CHAMPION
1968 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1968 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1969 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser
1969 French Open: Runner-up
1969 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1969 US Open: Quarter Final Loser
1970 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1970 US Open: CHAMPION
1971 Australian Open: CHAMPION
1971 Wimbledon: Semi Final Loser
1972 Australian Open: CHAMPION
1972 US Open: Round of 64 Loser
1973 Australian Open: Round of 32 Loser
1973 US Open: Semi Final Loser
1974 Wimbledon: Runner-up
1974 US Open: Runner-up
1975 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1976 Australian Open: Semi Final Loser
1977 Australian Open (January): Semi Final Loser
1977 US Open: Round of 32 Loser
1977 Australian Open (December): Quarter Final Loser
1978 Australian Open: Round of 16 Loser

What about Hoad? He turned pro in 1958 I guess.Did he play open era tennis majors?
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
What about Hoad? He turned pro in 1958 I guess.Did he play open era tennis majors?

Lew Hoad
1951 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1952 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1952 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1952 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1953 French Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1953 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1954 French Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1954 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1954 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1955 Australian Championships: Runner-up
1955 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1955 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1956 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1956 French Championships: CHAMPION
1956 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1956 US Championships: Runner-up
1957 Australian Championships: Semi Final Loser
1957 French Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1957 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1958 French Pro: Runner-up
1958 Wembley Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1958 US Pro: Runner-up
1958 Forest Hills Pro: Round Robin exit
1959 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1959 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1959 US Pro: Runner-up
1959 Forest Hills Pro: CHAMPION
1960 French Pro: Runner-up
1960 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1961 French Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1961 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1962 French Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1962 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1963 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1963 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1963 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 French Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1966 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1966 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1967 French Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1967 Wembley Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1967 Wimbledon Pro: Semi Final Loser
1968 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
1968 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1970 French Open: Round of 16 Loser
1970 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1972 French Open: Round of 64 Loser
1972 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser


Rosewall, in particular, was a real nemesis for Hoad.
 
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Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Lew Hoad
1951 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1952 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1952 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1952 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1953 French Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1953 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1954 French Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1954 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1954 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1955 Australian Championships: Runner-up
1955 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1955 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1956 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1956 French Championships: CHAMPION
1956 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1956 US Championships: Runner-up
1957 Australian Championships: Semi Final Loser
1957 French Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1957 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1958 French Pro: Runner-up
1958 Wembley Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1958 US Pro: Runner-up
1959 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1959 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1959 US Pro: Runner-up
1960 French Pro: Runner-up
1960 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1961 French Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1961 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1962 French Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1962 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1963 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1963 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1963 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 French Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1966 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1966 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1967 French Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1967 Wembley Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1967 Wimbledon Pro: Semi Final Loser
1968 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
1968 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1970 French Open: Round of 16 Loser
1970 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1972 French Open: Round of 64 Loser
1972 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser


Rosewall, in particular, was a real nemesis for Hoad.

Unfortunately, Mustard, you have included the fake US Pro held at Cleveland from 1952 to 1961. Even the promoter, Jack March, gave up calling it the US Pro in 1962, and adopted the even weirder "World Professional Championship" title, which derived (like the US Pro title) from his own imagination.
The top pro tournaments in the late 1950's and early 1960's were held at Forest Hills (which the media and the players regarded as the top tournament), Kooyong Stadium, and Roland Garros. These venues were abandoned after the early sixties because they relied on the presence of Gonzales and Hoad to sell sufficient tickets. But then, what else would you expect of the two greatest players ever?
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Lew Hoad
1951 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1952 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1952 Wimbledon: Round of 16 Loser
1952 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Australian Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1953 French Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1953 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1953 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1954 French Championships: Round of 16 Loser
1954 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1954 US Championships: Quarter Final Loser
1955 Australian Championships: Runner-up
1955 Wimbledon: Quarter Final Loser
1955 US Championships: Semi Final Loser
1956 Australian Championships: CHAMPION
1956 French Championships: CHAMPION
1956 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1956 US Championships: Runner-up
1957 Australian Championships: Semi Final Loser
1957 French Championships: Round of 32 Loser
1957 Wimbledon: CHAMPION
1958 French Pro: Runner-up
1958 Wembley Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1958 US Pro: Runner-up
1959 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1959 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1959 US Pro: Runner-up
1960 French Pro: Runner-up
1960 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1961 French Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1961 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1962 French Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1962 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1963 French Pro: Semi Final Loser
1963 Wembley Pro: Runner-up
1963 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 French Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 Wembley Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1964 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1966 Wembley Pro: Semi Final Loser
1966 US Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1967 French Pro: Quarter Final Loser
1967 Wembley Pro: Round of 16 Loser
1967 Wimbledon Pro: Semi Final Loser
1968 French Open: Round of 128 Loser
1968 Wimbledon: Round of 32 Loser
1970 French Open: Round of 16 Loser
1970 Wimbledon: Round of 64 Loser
1972 French Open: Round of 64 Loser
1972 Wimbledon: Round of 128 Loser


Rosewall, in particular, was a real nemesis for Hoad.

Actually, Rosewall became a nemesis for Hoad only after Hoad was declining as a player (and Rosewall was a nemesis for any player not at his best).
Before Hoad's layoff in 1960, he actually held an edge in play against Rosewall.
In 1957, he defeated Rosewall in two five-set marathon finals on clay at The Hague (the most important clay event of 1957) and Cairo, and Kramer stated that Hoad defeated Rosewall on their 1957 European tour two-thirds of the time.
In their two biggest matches of the 1959 season, at Forest Hills and the Kooyong final (January 1960), Hoad won both matches in four sets. Hoad also defeated Rosewall at Roland Garros that year.
Hoad could raise his game against Rosewall on occasion even after his play declined (such as a televised tournament final in 1962). After he lost a big toe in an operation in early 1965, his restricted mobility prevented him from beating Rosewall again.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Even before 1960, Rosewall stopped Hoad completing the CYGS in 1956, and beat Hoad in a couple of French Pro finals.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Even before 1960, Rosewall stopped Hoad completing the CYGS in 1956, and beat Hoad in a couple of French Pro finals.

In the 1956 Forest Hills final, Hoad was playing after spending the whole night consuming beer, and by all accounts, he played below form in the final. Further, he had already told Kramer that he didn't want to turn pro, as he and his wife enjoyed the shamateur lifestyle and touring arrangements. A win at Forest Hills would have forced him to turn pro. He had no great desire to win that tournament.
In the 1958 French Pro final, Hoad was playing well against Rosewall until he wrenched his back reaching for a ball, which ended his season for 1958. The following year, Hoad defeated Rosewall at Roland Garros, not easy to do.
In the 1960 final, Hoad was coming off a long layoff and was carrying extra pounds. For 1960 as a whole, the two met in eight finals, each winning four.
 

krosero

Legend
Re: the '56 Forest Hills final, this was in the Australian paper, The Age, the day after.

**********************​

A cold wind swirled around Forest Hills stadium this afternoon and swept away Lew Hoad’s hopes of a tennis grand slam, as Ken Rosewall took the U.S. national singles title in four sets....

The vital difference between the pair was that Rosewall learned to use the wind to his advantage, while Hoad tried to combat it.

Hoad, however, was not disgraced. His tennis in the first set was some of his best ever.

Had he met a less versatile opponent he, no doubt, would have added the championship to his Australian, French and Wimbledon titles and so equalled Budge’s 1938 record.

Those who watched all four major titles said that Hoad played at least as well as he did in winning the other events, but that Rosewall was infinitely better than when he lost to Hoad in the Australian and Wimbledon championship finals.

... Rosewall explained the match this way:

"I realized I couldn’t win by trying to beat the wind, so I decided to make it work for me. I concentrated on getting my first serve in and did not worry about its strength, because I knew the wind would swing it around and make it hard to return. Then I ran in to the net and cut short the returns."

Hoad’s view was: “I couldn’t get going after the first set. The wind was so strong that it blew the ball about as I threw it up to serve. I tried not to toss it so high, but it didn’t help. My serves couldn’t find the court and when my big serve fails I naturally find it tough to play my natural game.”​
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Re: the '56 Forest Hills final, this was in the Australian paper, The Age, the day after.

**********************​

A cold wind swirled around Forest Hills stadium this afternoon and swept away Lew Hoad’s hopes of a tennis grand slam, as Ken Rosewall took the U.S. national singles title in four sets....

The vital difference between the pair was that Rosewall learned to use the wind to his advantage, while Hoad tried to combat it.

Hoad, however, was not disgraced. His tennis in the first set was some of his best ever.

Had he met a less versatile opponent he, no doubt, would have added the championship to his Australian, French and Wimbledon titles and so equalled Budge’s 1938 record.

Those who watched all four major titles said that Hoad played at least as well as he did in winning the other events, but that Rosewall was infinitely better than when he lost to Hoad in the Australian and Wimbledon championship finals.

... Rosewall explained the match this way:

"I realized I couldn’t win by trying to beat the wind, so I decided to make it work for me. I concentrated on getting my first serve in and did not worry about its strength, because I knew the wind would swing it around and make it hard to return. Then I ran in to the net and cut short the returns."

Hoad’s view was: “I couldn’t get going after the first set. The wind was so strong that it blew the ball about as I threw it up to serve. I tried not to toss it so high, but it didn’t help. My serves couldn’t find the court and when my big serve fails I naturally find it tough to play my natural game.”​

This is difficult to understand. Hoad had never tried to play in the wind? All of the Aussies were accustomed to outdoor conditions, and using special shots in the wind. Hoad unable to return a soft serve? Only if his concentration was off.
 
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