Paleo Diet Experiences?

Fuji · May 10, 2012

Hey all,

The trend going around my work right now is the Paleo Diet. I'm curious to see if anyone here has tried it or has heard about it. Any experiences would be great! A few guys have started to see results, but of course I'm sceptical of cutting grains out of my eating habits.

Thanks!

-Fuji

WildVolley · May 10, 2012

I know a few people who have tried it and invariably they've dropped a lot of body fat. One woman I know lost about 30lbs in 4 months by going fairly strict paleo (animal protein and fat, vegetables, fermented food, fruit, and almost no pasta, rice, bread or corn).

So my opinion at the moment is that it seems to work very well for dropping weight by most people who stick to it. I think most people drop out because the average diet is so heavily grain and bread based.

r2473 · May 10, 2012

Changing the name from "Atkins" to "Paleo" has done wonders for marketing this diet.

shissncg · May 10, 2012

There are plenty of differences between Paleo and Atkins (Keto). A key one is that Paleo allows for plenty of fruits and foods like honey (a big no-no when you are trying to keep sugar low) while Keto allows for sugar alcohol and artificial sweetener (a no-no on Paleo). Also, milk, cheese, cream (Keto yes, Paleo no).

sureshs · May 10, 2012

Hey Fuji,

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=423443

Sentinel · May 10, 2012

what exactly is a Paleo diet.

I thought the healthiest diet was steak, fat drippings and potatoes fried in animal fat.

WildVolley · May 10, 2012

Sentinel said:
what exactly is a Paleo diet.

I thought the healthiest diet was steak, fat drippings and potatoes fried in animal fat.

That's basically it, but drop the potatoes and cook some greens in the fat drippings and you're getting close.

I'm not an expert, but I gather the diet is based on eating foods not made of grain or based on the widespread cultivation of grains. The basic belief is that the cultivation of grains made large increases in population possible, but it also made people shorter in stature, less muscular, and subject to diseases like diabetes and heart disease.

maggmaster · May 10, 2012

Which makes no sense since the population has been getting taller and more muscular since...food sources became more plentiful.

It is a diet, it is restrictive, it will be difficult to stick with forever. I do not like diets, I like lifestyle changes. If you are the type of person with the will power to give up grains entirely then this is a fine lifestyle change for you.

Posture Guy · May 10, 2012

Here's an article from a guy I respect, Jon Barron, talking about the Paleo diet. His perspective parallels mine. There's a lot I like about it, some thing I'm not sure about, and some things I disagree with. And there is not even consensus in Paleo circles about what constitutes a Paleo diet. But in general, I think the more we get grains out of our diet, the better, especially highly processed ones.

Right now, about the only grains I consume are sprouted ones, like Ezekiel bread. One day a week I might 'splurge' and have some pizza, but in general, I think white flour is not a healthful food choice.

Here's the article:

http://www.jonbarron.org/weight-loss/paleo-diet-review-good-bad

GuyClinch · May 10, 2012

I like this guys site for a Paleo like diet.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/page/3/#axzz1uUai6AyP

It's not 100% clear on what counts as Paleo and what doesn't. For some dairy is okay.. Its okay in my book.

I have dropped some pounds trying to avoid wheat - most rice - corn etc. The 'obvious' carbs - and trying to watch my sugar intake.

if you can handle a very simple diet of meats - sometimes with plenty of fat - and low sugar veggies (Kale for example).

I think you will lose a ton of weight. The downside is maintence is a *****. Its not cravings or hunger - its just convience. SO much of what we eat breaks Paleo rules ..
Then you throw in pressure from friends and family. Share a piece of cake with me.. <g>

And the borderline foods start to creep in more and more. My dad did even better them me - with a more hardcore no dairy version of the diet. So I think success with Paleo depends on compliance with the most hardcore versions of it.

The beauty of the diet though is that its calorie unrestricted. But its food type restricted. Its like you can eat as much as you want - as long as it steak and brocolli. Haha.

Atkins is the easier diet compliance wise - once you get into the later stages of it, IMHO. The introductory stage though of 20g of carbs is fairly brutal.

I say skip all that aim for less then 100g of carbs a day and you might not be ripped - but you won't be fat or getting fatter.

WildVolley · May 10, 2012

maggmaster said:
Which makes no sense since the population has been getting taller and more muscular since...food sources became more plentiful.

I'm not so certain about that. It has been quite a while since I took an anthropology course, but I think there is skeletal records to suggest that humans decreased in stature after the widespread introduction of grain agriculture as compared to earlier hunter/gatherers.

There does seem to be evidence that animal fats and proteins make people bigger (not just fat). Vegan kids tend to have a problem with being scrawny and weak.

I think that Art DeVany also has a good site on Paleo concepts: http://www.arthurdevany.com/

Posture Guy · May 10, 2012

GuyClinch....yeah, that site is great, some very good information there.

dominikk1985 · May 10, 2012

Real athletes don't use that kind of diets. they all eat tons of carbs. tour de france riders eat 8000 calories of carb every day during a multi stage race and they are not getting fat.

for rec athletes this kind of diet can work though.

Lefty5 · May 10, 2012

Pretty sure that Atkins guy died of a heart attack not too long ago. Better to go gluten free, eat more veggies, and eat organic lean mean in moderation.

Qubax · May 10, 2012

Lefty5 said:
Pretty sure that Atkins guy died of a heart attack not too long ago. Better to go gluten free, eat more veggies, and eat organic lean mean in moderation.

This

10chars

r2473 · May 10, 2012

Lefty5 said:
Pretty sure that Atkins guy died of a heart attack not too long ago. Better to go gluten free, eat more veggies, and eat organic lean mean in moderation.

I suspect you'll die anyway.

r2473 · May 10, 2012

dominikk1985 said:
Real athletes don't use that kind of diets. they all eat tons of carbs. tour de france riders eat 8000 calories of carb every day during a multi stage race and they are not getting fat.

What you eat needs to match your lifestyle. If you like to sit around, you probably shouldn't eat very much. Especially not a lot of quick, high energy food. You don't need it.

If you are active, you probably have little to worry about. My main concern is usually having enough energy for my workout the next day. If I'm not being active, I seem to naturally not want/crave high energy foods.

I'm always amazed how "complicated" eating is. For women, I get it. They're nuts. Everything is complicated. But I'm always amazed when men make eating complicated. Well, whatever works.

sureshs · May 10, 2012

r2473 said:
What you eat needs to match your lifestyle. If you like to sit around, you probably shouldn't eat very much. Especially not a lot of quick, high energy food. You don't need it.

If you are active, you probably have little to worry about. My main concern is usually having enough energy for my workout the next day. If I'm not being active, I seem to naturally not want/crave high energy foods.

I'm always amazed how "complicated" eating is. For women, I get it. They're nuts. Everything is complicated. But I'm always amazed when men make eating complicated. Well, whatever works.

Women have many hormonal imbalance issues which make eating choices very important.

Men who are health-conscious are also picky. Djokovic for example. And I am sure Federer will not be eating pizzas and burgers indiscriminately. The availability of cheap greasy unhealthy but convenient food has created an epidemic of obesity, diabetes and heart disease, which are more common in men.

We have to rethink the whole issue of eating.

WildVolley · May 10, 2012

dominikk1985 said:
Real athletes don't use that kind of diets. they all eat tons of carbs. tour de france riders eat 8000 calories of carb every day during a multi stage race and they are not getting fat.

for rec athletes this kind of diet can work though.

Most athletes (even professionals) don't eat a very good diet - at least this is my experience. Endurance athletes tend to eat a lot of carbs because they are easily converted for use by the muscles and they are expending a huge amount of energy all the time. If you eat like an endurance athlete without doing the actual exercise, you'll turn into a blimp.

Djokovic, however, has claimed to have improved his endurance by going on a gluten-free diet, which involves avoiding wheat.

r2473 · May 10, 2012

sureshs said:
Women have many hormonal imbalance issues which make eating choices very important.

Men who are health-conscious are also picky. Djokovic for example. And I am sure Federer will not be eating pizzas and burgers indiscriminately. The availability of cheap greasy unhealthy but convenient food has created an epidemic of obesity, diabetes and heart disease, which are more common in men.

We have to rethink the whole issue of eating.

We aren't on the same page at all. I guess I'm happy eating isn't this complicated for me.

Power Player · May 10, 2012

Hey everybody in case you were wondering R2 is better than you because he does not diet and is quite content being 10-15 pounds overweight.

I feel like I should post this in every diet thread just to get it out of the way. That way people will understand the drive by criticism and snark a little better.

WildVolley · May 10, 2012

Lefty5 said:
Pretty sure that Atkins guy died of a heart attack not too long ago. Better to go gluten free, eat more veggies, and eat organic lean mean in moderation.

Wow, the anti-Atkins people spread this lie because they hated his advice.

Atkins, who did have some heart problems from a viral infection, died at the age of 72 after slipping on some ice and hitting his head. He lost consciousness was taken to the hospital and never recovered, dying about a week later. His arteries did not show any abnormal blockages at the time of his death. The official cause of death was "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma."

I'm not sure that the Atkins diet is sustainable, but in his favor, Atkins was a tennis player.

r2473 · May 10, 2012

Power Player said:
Hey everybody in case you were wondering R2 is better than you because he does not diet and is quite content being 10-15 pounds overweight.

I feel like I should post this in every diet thread just to get it out of the way. That way people will understand the drive by criticism and snark a little better.

I'm not 10-15 pounds overweight. My weight is quite healthy. As is my activity level.

My lifestyle is better when I live in accordance with moderation than with extremes.

I understand most people like extremes. That's fine. But to live that way brings about its own (unnecessary) stresses.

Power Player · May 10, 2012

You said in another diet thread you were lightly mocking (IF) that you were 10-15 pounds over your ideal weight I thought.

A lot of people struggle with diet. If eating is "not that complicated for you" why do you always check out diet threads? I guess I don't understand.

sureshs · May 10, 2012

Eating is highly complicated because what tastes good is not what is good for you. As simple as that.

It is different to say, tennis, which feels good and is also good for you. Or things like watching a movie, which feels good and may not be good for you, but does not damage you that much.

People don't feel an irrational urge to watch movies or to dance, even though they may enjoy them, and they don't hurt themselves with that. Eating is an overpowering urge which cuts through the rational guarding gates. That is why it such an issue.

r2473 · May 10, 2012

Sure, I could stand to drop 10-15 pounds. But, having done it and failing to keep it off, I understand that it would be hard to maintain that weight. I could easily maintain that sort of weight even 5 years ago. I guess its not possible anymore.

I'm probably ~17%. Very healthy. Would I like to be 12%? 10%? Sure. But that would involve a lot of daily sacrifice (and no better health, only appearance). Not many people can easily maintain a level below 15%, especailly once you start pushing 40. The ones that do maintain these low bf% as they get older are usually somewhat obsessed with it (I see a few guys like this in my gym).

As far as posting in diet threads, I normally post in favor of moderation (and mock extreme diet choices). It's a fools paridise. It's not sustainable.

Check back with me in 5-10 years. I'll probably be eating pretty much the same, have roughly the same activity level, and probably weigh roughly the same.

Let's see how many people are able to consistently stay "paleo" or do "IF" over this same period. How many fads do you suppose most people will have exhausted by then? And what type of shape do you suppose they will be in?

r2473 · May 10, 2012

sureshs said:
Eating is highly complicated because what tastes good is not what is good for you. As simple as that.

You crave what you are used to. I personally don't crave fast food / boxed food / garbage because I just don't eat a lot of it. I certainly eat some, but it isn't the foundation of my diet.

I have to imagine that the people that advocate low carb "Taubes" style eating probably used to eat like absolute ****. Ya, you probably shouldn't eat fast food and boxed food the majority of the time. Do you really need someone to tell you this?

Eating is complicated because it is a "passive" activity for most people, not an active activity. Learn to cook and cook for yourself. You will "magically" start eating healthier. I guarantee it. If you cook, its nearly impossible not to eat relatively healthy. A hamburger isn't really too unhealthy. But a McDonalds hamburger is. Why? I really don't know. But I do know that I can't make a McDonalds hambuger at home. All I can make are the healthy ones (and I'd probably rather eat horsesh!t than a McDonalds hamburger anyway).

I know. Don't have time. Too busy. Nobody can live that way anymore. Doesn't work for my lifestyle.

Well don't worry, the next new diet trend "for your active lifestyle and the way we live today" is just around the corner. I just wish I could come up with it. Sells better than water in a desert.

Power Player · May 10, 2012

I honestly think I can do IF the rest of my life. It is that easy. Unless some crazy complication comes up that no one predicted, there is nothing wrong with essentially skipping breakfast.

Fasting become so damn easy after a while. I also can go without food for so long now when I used to get super hungry with headaches..etc.

I eat very balanced..today I had Greek yogurt, blue berries, baked potato, grilled chicken breast, white rice, broccoli and tomato sauce. So I don't starve my body of anything either. Plus I have abs and defined muscles in my 30s and have a lean, muscular build. Life is better when you are lean. Especially if you play tennis.

I eliminated all supplements except a bcaa mix when I work out..because I don't need anything anymore..my energy levels are just better. I can work out hard on an empty stomach whereas before I had to eat food right before or I'd get light headed. I am usually on hour25 of fasting when I'm lifting, and it's no problem. Plus I don't have to work out as much..I do 30 minute sessions 3 times a week instead of the 45 minute sessions I used to do.

Of course I could come back in 5 years and you'd be doing the same thing, because you really don't do anything..lol. You just eat balanced meals, which is not really that difficult and sure is not an extra effort that will get you lean. Some of us like to be lean and in better shape.

sureshs · May 10, 2012

r2473 said:
You crave what you are used to. I personally don't crave fast food / boxed food / garbage because I just don't eat a lot of it. I certainly eat some, but it isn't the foundation of my diet.

I have to imagine that the people that advocate low carb "Taubes" style eating probably used to eat like absolute ****. Ya, you probably shouldn't eat fast food and boxed food the majority of the time. Do you really need someone to tell you this?

Eating is complicated because it is a "passive" activity for most people, not an active activity. Learn to cook and cook for yourself. You will "magically" start eating healthier. I guarantee it. If you cook, its nearly impossible not to eat relatively healthy. A hamburger isn't really too unhealthy. But a McDonalds hamburger is. Why? I really don't know. But I do know that I can't make a McDonalds hambuger at home. All I can make are the healthy ones (and I'd probably rather eat horsesh!t than a McDonalds hamburger anyway).

I know. Don't have time. Too busy. Nobody can live that way anymore. Doesn't work for my lifestyle.

Well don't worry, the next new diet trend "for your active lifestyle and the way we live today" is just around the corner. I just wish I could come up with it. Sells better than water in a desert.

Don't have time. Too busy. Nobody can live that way anymore. Doesn't work for my lifestyle.

Seriously, we have cut down eating out for dinner to one time a week. But I cannot wait for that day to come. And every day, I have dinner thinking about that day when I will eat out.

There is something about food that is different. And no, it is not necessarily what I am used to. When I was growing up, there was no pizza and no colas. But I crave them now. And I was always used to chocolate, but I don't crave it at all.

I simply do not find any healthy food tasty. I need a certain level of something, I don't know what it is, fat or oil or sugar or salt or whatever, to be satisfied. And adding spices doesn't make up for whatever it is that is missing in a healthy diet. Fruits and vegetables and nuts, however well prepared or presented, don't have that. I need the satisfied feeling after a meal, and filling up the stomach with healthy food does not give me that feeling.

WildVolley · May 10, 2012

I don't eat a very pure paleo diet, but I've never been afraid of high fat food and animal protein and I've always been a thin guy. Part of it may just be genetics, but I believe part is due to remaining active and because eating animal fat really doesn't make you fat. Just as eating a low fat diet doesn't make you thin.

I believe one of the most important results of the paleo-diet people is putting the lie to the belief that low fat/high carb is somehow very healthy. Also, a lot of low fat food tastes bad and has an unpleasant texture.

There's nothing wrong with having a big rib-eye steak with some greens and zucchini, a salad, and some nice red wine. It is delicious, filling, and won't make you fat.

r2473 · May 11, 2012

Power Player said:
I honestly think I can do IF the rest of my life. It is that easy. Unless some crazy complication comes up that no one predicted, there is nothing wrong with essentially skipping breakfast.

Fasting become so damn easy after a while. I also can go without food for so long now when I used to get super hungry with headaches..etc.

I eat very balanced..today I had Greek yogurt, blue berries, baked potato, grilled chicken breast, white rice, broccoli and tomato sauce. So I don't starve my body of anything either. Plus I have abs and defined muscles in my 30s and have a lean, muscular build. Life is better when you are lean. Especially if you play tennis.

I eliminated all supplements except a bcaa mix when I work out..because I don't need anything anymore..my energy levels are just better. I can work out hard on an empty stomach whereas before I had to eat food right before or I'd get light headed. I am usually on hour25 of fasting when I'm lifting, and it's no problem. Plus I don't have to work out as much..I do 30 minute sessions 3 times a week instead of the 45 minute sessions I used to do.

Of course I could come back in 5 years and you'd be doing the same thing, because you really don't do anything..lol. You just eat balanced meals, which is not really that difficult and sure is not an extra effort that will get you lean. Some of us like to be lean and in better shape.

If fasting / not eating carbs / eating like a caveman / or whatever is working for you as a lifestyle, that's great. I prefer "not doing anything".

Well, time for breakfast........

Posture Guy · May 11, 2012

I take exception to the poster's comment that there's nothing wrong with skipping breakfast. Imo, that's a decidedly bad idea for a lot of different reasons.

But hey, if it's working for you, great. No way it would work for me or most people I know.

Kevin T · May 11, 2012

r2473 said:
If fasting / not eating carbs / eating like a caveman / or whatever is working for you as a lifestyle, that's great. I prefer "not doing anything".

Well, time for breakfast........

You can't eat 'breakfast' until at least 1pm, r2. That's the new hip thing. Now, put that giant sock on your head, squeeze into those skinny jeans, hop onto your fixie bike and get out there.

Kevin T · May 11, 2012

Posture Guy said:
I take exception to the poster's comment that there's nothing wrong with skipping breakfast. Imo, that's a decidedly bad idea for a lot of different reasons.

But hey, if it's working for you, great. No way it would work for me or most people I know.

Me too.

The overwhelming amount of research, involving tens of thousands of subjects from the National Weight Control Registry to Duke to Western Human Nutrition Research Center shows that 80-90% of individuals that not only lose weight but successfully keep it off, eat breakfast daily. Your Mom was right.

r2473 · May 11, 2012

Kevin T said:
Me too.

The overwhelming amount of research, involving tens of thousands of subjects from the National Weight Control Registry to Duke to Western Human Nutrition Research Center shows that 80-90% of individuals that not only lose weight but successfully keep it off, eat breakfast daily. Your Mom was right.

I'm not sure if you know this, but everything you have been taught and everything the professional (institutional!!!) dietitian community says is a lie. They have it all backward and have for many years. They have all been brainwashed by....????....... and are just part of the problem (or should I say conspiracy).

Wake up Kevin.

Have you seen some of these guys hawking IF and caveman diets? They're ripped. You want to be ripped, don't you?

Kevin T · May 11, 2012

r2473 said:
I'm not sure if you know this, but everything you have been taught and everything the professional (institutional!!!) dietitian community says is a lie. They have it all backward and have for many years. They have all been brainwashed by....????....... and are just part of the problem (or should I say conspiracy).

Wake up Kevin.

Have you seen some of these guys hawking IF and caveman diets? They're ripped. You want to be ripped, don't you?

I'm sending out refund checks as we speak.

Like I've said before, this is why I migrated to Peds GI...too much drama with weight loss.

GuyClinch · May 11, 2012

There's nothing wrong with having a big rib-eye steak with some greens and zucchini, a salad, and some nice red wine. It is delicious, filling, and won't make you fat.

+1. This. Paleo style eating lets you eat some really good food without gaining weight. That's a big plus in my book..

As for athletes eating junk - true. But there are lots of reasons why they can withstand that kind of diet including youth, fitness level and exercise. These three factors aid your body in utilizing carbohydrates and sugars better - without the kind of effects office workers get.

The major thing I got from the Paleo movement is this - fats are not bad. In fact they are often good - even saturated fat. This is an incredibly different way to look at diet here in the US.

Most 'health food' here features extremely low fat and alot of carbs. This food just leaves me hungry. YMMV.
My g/f ironically always felt this way. She ate alot of fatty food with rich butter or coconut oil sauces (kinda like the french) and didn't indulge as much with rice. She feels vindicated for eating things like full fat greek yogurt..

Much like Wild Volley though - she was always thin so no one would listen to her with diet advice.. Heh.

r2473 · May 11, 2012

GuyClinch said:
My g/f ironically always felt this way. She ate alot of fatty food with rich butter or coconut oil sauces (kinda like the french) ..

I like butter, cream, eggs, etc in sauces.

What kind of coconut oil sauces did she make? I had no idea the French used coconut oil in their sauces. Give me some examples. Always on the lookout for new yummy sauces.

OTMPut · May 11, 2012

i have been primal over last 5 months. i have lost about 25 lbs in the first two months and for the past 3+ months my weight has been amazingly stable. i am stronger and leaner.

i avoid sugar and grains. simple guideline. i just traveled to india for a week to visit some relatives and i managed stay 100% within my guideline. that was something, believe me.

sureshs · May 11, 2012

OTMPut said:
i have been primal over last 5 months. i have lost about 25 lbs in the first two months and for the past 3+ months my weight has been amazingly stable. i am stronger and leaner.

i avoid sugar and grains. simple guideline. i just traveled to india for a week to visit some relatives and i managed stay 100% within my guideline. that was something, believe me.

How did you manage to avoid sugar and grains in India

Usually, people come back fatter.

Power Player · May 11, 2012

Kevin T said:
You can't eat 'breakfast' until at least 1pm, r2. That's the new hip thing. Now, put that giant sock on your head, squeeze into those skinny jeans, hop onto your fixie bike and get out there.

LOL. you and R2 always team up on me. I played college athletics, watched my school whip your a55es in football for a national title (ok that was low..lol).. and my Aunt ran the entire health department there. Its not like I have no health education as I can email my aunt anytime for advice and I do.

Just so you know she told me there is a lot of research coming out that shows what I am doing can be beneficial, and it depends on body type and how your body reacts. Some people can't do this diet..some people can't do paleo..some can't eat meat..quit putting everything in a box like I am doing a "hipster" diet because boxing it in makes you feel secure in how you live your life.

And posture guy says he takes exception for a "bunch of different reasons" and you just jump in and high five him like that makes it fine. Thats ludicrous. at least you cited a source even though I ask you - how many people who ate breakfast also gained their weight back? How many of them even did IF since it is a newer concept..I can tell you that data you cited is at least 4 years old and diet strategy is always evolving.

Sure I could be like r2..no abs..not ripped, probably cant play singles tennis for long and looks like a regular guy in average shape. I don't want to be like that. I am glad he insults me for being ripped and being in better shape as well. He can suck down cream and beer all day and be at 18% BF like everyone else if that makes him happy. A lot of people find happiness in food. I find happiness in being lean in shape and able to play tennis for 2-3 hours at a time 3-4 days a week in my 30s. I guess its crazy to come to a tennis webiste and talk about stuff like this right?

R2 asks a snide question or makes a lame comment every time I talk about anything in this area of the forum. Like he is an expert and feels the need to antagonize people trying to better themselves. He asks me what my body fat was..what I am trying to lose..why I take a certain multi and I always play along and give an honest answer even though I know he is being a tool and trying to look for some kind of error to talk trash about.

I have a crazy idea..why dont you lose some weight and get better at tennis and leave me alone? Or if you have a problem, email me directly and we can work it out.

and KevinT, for the record you can eat breakfast whenever you want. It's 16 hours between your last and first meal. So if you eat dinner at 6pm, you would be eating breakfast at 10am. WOW!! super extreme right?

Kevin T · May 11, 2012

Power Player said:
LOL. you and R2 always team up on me. I played college athletics, watched my school whip your a55es in football for a national title (ok that was low..lol).. and my Aunt ran the entire health department there. Its not like I have no health education as I can email my aunt anytime for advice and I do.

Just so you know she told me there is a lot of research coming out that shows what I am doing can be beneficial, and it depends on body type and how your body reacts. Some people can't do this diet..some people can't do paleo..some can't eat meat..quit putting everything in a box like I am doing a "hipster" diet because boxing it in makes you feel secure in how you live your life.

And posture guy says he takes exception for a "bunch of different reasons" and you just jump in and high five him like that makes it fine. Thats ludicrous. at least you cited a source even though I ask you - how many people who ate breakfast also gained their weight back? How many of them even did IF since it is a newer concept..I can tell you that data you cited is at least 4 years old and diet strategy is always evolving.

Sure I could be like r2..no abs..not ripped, probably cant play singles tennis for long and looks like a regular guy in average shape. I don't want to be like that. I am glad he insults me for being ripped and being in better shape as well. He can suck down cream and beer all day and be at 18% BF like everyone else if that makes him happy. A lot of people find happiness in food. I find happiness in being lean in shape and able to play tennis for 2-3 hours at a time 3-4 days a week in my 30s. I guess its crazy to come to a tennis webiste and talk about stuff like this right?

R2 asks a snide question or makes a lame comment every time I talk about anything in this area of the forum. Like he is an expert and feels the need to antagonize people trying to better themselves. He asks me what my body fat was..what I am trying to lose..why I take a certain multi and I always play along and give an honest answer even though I know he is being a tool and trying to look for some kind of error to talk trash about.

I have a crazy idea..why dont you lose some weight and get better at tennis and leave me alone? Or if you have a problem, email me directly and we can work it out.

and KevinT, for the record you can eat breakfast whenever you want. It's 16 hours between your last and first meal. So if you eat dinner at 6pm, you would be eating breakfast at 10am. WOW!! super extreme right?

Wow. This is a post for the record books. I'm sure you can see from my number of posts that I don't 'team' up on anyone. I'm much too busy and have much better things to do. I've been on this site since '98 or '99 and probably have fewer than 4k total posts. Are you sure you are in your 30's with a response like this? "My school whipped your school...I played college athletics...my Aunt runs the health department...email me if you have a problem"? Calm down, think about things and post later. R2 is as light-hearted as you're gonna get around here and I always enjoy his humor/sarcasm.

If you want to talk specifics, the data I cited is not 4 years old. Many of these studies are ongoing and involve tens of thousands of subjects. And read my post again...the subjects that regularly eat breakfast not only lost weight but are keeping it off. I'm sure IF will work...due to kcal restriction...just like my diet that allows me to eat 5-6 times per day and have a couple of cold ones, wine or Blanton's Bourbon at the end of the day. Or how the Kansas St professor ate Twinkies and Oreos and lost a ton of weight and improved his lipid profile.

I still go ~ 6'4" and 225# at 37 yo...not too far off my playing days, though I have no interest in being that muscular/heavy again. Not interested in throwing around heavy weight anymore, either. Certainly not fat and not a bad tennis player, though probably not 5.0 level these days. But I'm married with a 4 yo, 2 yo and another on the way and work 50+ hours per week, so I've got better things to do.

GuyClinch · May 11, 2012

I have a crazy idea..why dont you lose some weight and get better at tennis and leave me alone? Or if you have a problem, email me directly and we can work it out.

aww man don't get too worked up. I enjoy your posts. Some people like a bit of validation. Don't let it get you down.

Anyway..in defense of your postings.

The problem with saying skipping breakfast is bad because skinny people don't skip breakfast is that its correlational. Most people who want to eat right were told to eat breakfast - and so they do. These people are also more likely to exercise go to the doctor etc.

People who don't care about what they are eating - might skip breakfast..so it makes it look very bad.

What we would have to do is actually STUDY what happens to people who don't eat breakfast and not rely on correlation data. To do that we would have to assign people to randomized trials where some do and don't eat breakfast.

In short power player might be doing perfectly fine skipping breakfast. For me - lunch is what I would skip simply because I can eat right at home - but with lunch you are at work.

Either way if this issue was actually studied my gut feeling is that it matters what you eat - not when.

It's the exact same problem with a ton of other variables. Hey red meat is bad. Look at all the red meaters who are dead! Be a vegan...

Problem is again with that theory - alot of those red meat eaters are just eating it because it tastes GOOD. They might eat bologna and salami every day. So it could be the processed meat thats bad - and hey they might eat other stuff that tastes good - like doughnuts, fried dough and Ben and Jerrys..

So bam again you have a correlational problem..

tricky · May 11, 2012

sureshs said:
How did you manage to avoid sugar and grains in India

Usually, people come back fatter.

Mmmm, naan.

WildVolley · May 11, 2012

GuyClinch said:
The major thing I got from the Paleo movement is this - fats are not bad. In fact they are often good - even saturated fat. This is an incredibly different way to look at diet here in the US.

Most 'health food' here features extremely low fat and alot of carbs. This food just leaves me hungry. YMMV.
My g/f ironically always felt this way. She ate alot of fatty food with rich butter or coconut oil sauces (kinda like the french) and didn't indulge as much with rice. She feels vindicated for eating things like full fat greek yogurt..

Much like Wild Volley though - she was always thin so no one would listen to her with diet advice.. Heh.

The Paleo thing helped me realize the famous "French paradox" isn't a paradox at all. The "French paradox" is the observation that the French consume a lot of saturated animal fat yet have very low heart attack levels compared to Americans.

The solution to this "paradox" is obvious. It doesn't have anything to do with the French drinking red wine - which is probably good for you in moderation. The truth (you can't handle the truth!) is that saturated animal fats don't cause heart attacks. So serve yourself another helping of the prime red meat, smoother that lobster in butter, and realize that it is more likely your bowl of cheerios is going to give you a heart attack by causing inflammation in your body than another helping of that evil saturated fat.

vkartikv · May 11, 2012

The paleo diet may be taking things too far. It's also not practical and pocket-friendly for a majority of the population. Eating 4-6 times a day and making sure its not processed or has added sugar and ensuring you get enough vegetables/fruit and protein will suffice.

giseppi · May 11, 2012

WildVolley said:
The Paleo thing helped me realize the famous "French paradox" isn't a paradox at all. The "French paradox" is the observation that the French consume a lot of saturated animal fat yet have very low heart attack levels compared to Americans.

The solution to this "paradox" is obvious. It doesn't have anything to do with the French drinking red wine - which is probably good for you in moderation. The truth (you can't handle the truth!) is that saturated animal fats don't cause heart attacks. So serve yourself another helping of the prime red meat, smoother that lobster in butter, and realize that it is more likely your bowl of cheerios is going to give you a heart attack by causing inflammation in your body than another helping of that evil saturated fat.

I was under the impression that heart attacks were caused by a buildup of plaque on the walls of the arteries, not inflammation.

Also, rather than drinking wine for "health reasons", why not just eat grapes?

Kevin T · May 11, 2012

WildVolley said:
The Paleo thing helped me realize the famous "French paradox" isn't a paradox at all. The "French paradox" is the observation that the French consume a lot of saturated animal fat yet have very low heart attack levels compared to Americans.

The solution to this "paradox" is obvious. It doesn't have anything to do with the French drinking red wine - which is probably good for you in moderation. The truth (you can't handle the truth!) is that saturated animal fats don't cause heart attacks. So serve yourself another helping of the prime red meat, smoother that lobster in butter, and realize that it is more likely your bowl of cheerios is going to give you a heart attack by causing inflammation in your body than another helping of that evil saturated fat.

In addition, the French consume 300-600 fewer calories per day (depending the source you use) and expend (burn) 200+ more kcal per day (again, depending on the source) than the average American.

r2473 · May 11, 2012

Power Player said:
Sure I could be like r2..no abs..not ripped, probably cant play singles tennis for long and looks like a regular guy in average shape. I don't want to be like that. I am glad he insults me for being ripped and being in better shape as well. He can suck down cream and beer all day and be at 18% BF like everyone else if that makes him happy. A lot of people find happiness in food. I find happiness in being lean in shape and able to play tennis for 2-3 hours at a time 3-4 days a week in my 30s. I guess its crazy to come to a tennis webiste and talk about stuff like this right?

I have a crazy idea..why dont you lose some weight and get better at tennis and leave me alone?

Pfft....I bet you can't even squat 2.5x your bodyweight :wink:

I do suck at tennis, but I can still play forever (so long as I eat enough carbs so I have the energy).

But I'm afraid my days of ripped abs are over. Guess the ladies will just have to deal with it.

Maybe I should post some "Verdasco pics" of myself in speedos in this thread

WildVolley · May 11, 2012

giseppi said:
I was under the impression that heart attacks were caused by a buildup of plaque on the walls of the arteries, not inflammation.

Also, rather than drinking wine for "health reasons", why not just eat grapes?

The buildup of plaque is believed to be a response to inflammation.

There's a theory that much of the health benefit of red wine is from a compound called resveratrol (at least that's one potential compound which has been identified). The majority of resveratrol is apparently in the skin of red grapes and the process of turning grapes into wine tends to concentrate it. So, if that is true, then eating grapes alone won't match the benefits of a glass of wine unless you eat a large amount of them.

Also, there seems to be some evidence that alcohol itself in moderation tends to increase longevity, though I'm not sure the mechanisms have been identified. There was a shock study released last year that claimed that teetotalers die younger than even "heavy" drinkers as defined by the study, while moderate drinkers lived the longest. It could have been a garbage study, I didn't look at the statistics or data set.

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