Let's disspel the myth that Federer thrived against a "weak field"

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Bolded part: you're not making one point, but two, that is:

(1) Post 2008 we have 3 open era greats competing
(2) 2004-07 there was only one

However, this doesn't mean that competition is higher in (1) than in (2). You *may* have a point if you were consistent in your reasoning and started by stating the fact that the weakest era in the Open Era was the 90's (which is consistent with the arguments you're bringing forward). Unfortunately, that's not what you are saying, so I'm afraid you come across as someone with an agenda.

As to the part in blue, you seem to have no trouble thinking that Federer is the same player he was in 2004, so yet again, double standards = poster with an agenda. As long as you stay away from fair thinking, there's no way you can get around this.


What you’re saying makes little sense and is just another way of devolving to the default that eras are just too different to compare and therefore are all the same -- which is ridiculous and oxymoronic.

In your mind it seems that the only way to think fairly is too assume that Federer faced competition that was just as strong in 2004-07 as it is now or ever; which again is ridiculous.

Also, you bringing up the 90's is a stretch. It is certainly easier to compare 2004-07 with 2008 to present, than either of these time periods with the 90's. With the former we have constants or relative constants: mainly Federer himself, the homogenization of surfaces, and the introduction of the new poly strings. With the latter comparison (the 90's vs Federer's time) we have none of these constants which makes the comparison much more difficult, yet not impossible.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Open era greats do not have the same level of plays each year, so it doesn't mean anything. Djokovic was already here but he wasn't a great until 2011, while Federer wasn't good too in 2008 and 2010.

Otherwise, why do you discount Nadal and Agassi of your count of Open era greats? Agassi was there until 2005, Nadal since 2005.

And you don't take into account that some players may have become open era greats had they not met Federer in 3 slam final and two semi-final? Of course players from 2004-2005 have a poor palmares because of Federer, just like Fed has a "poor" one at RG because of Nadal.

Nadal was not an open era great in 2004-2007; he was a great clay courter only with good grass court potential. Agassi was far post prime in 2005, and Nole was certainly great in 2008.

Its true that no player maintains peak form every year; however prime form consists of a player's aggregate average playing level that is high enough to contend for multiple slams and other big titles on multiple surfaces (at least when it concerns an open era great candidate).

If Federer was meeting the same one or two players in slam finals from 2004-07 on multiple surfaces then you might have a point; but he was not until post 2008...( the closest was Nadal on clay and grass from 2004-07)
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
A 18-21 year old Federer, the so called hard court GOAT according to ****s, wasnt even able to make it past the round of 16 of a single hard court slam. He couldnt even make it past the round of 16 at the U.S Open until age 23 (lol). Yet lets now blame 18-21 year old Nadal, the so called hard court mug, luckiest U.S Open, Australian Open, Olympic, Indian Wells multiple times over, etc...winner in history, for not making hard court slam finals and semis at that age. Great stuff. Also lets blame Nadal for not making the Wimbledon final until something like his 4th grass tournament ever. He should have made it at age 16 and 17.

We'll talk when Nadal hits 30. I guess you will be surprised when he doesn't reach major finals on hard courts, LOLZ.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Nadal was not an open era great in 2004-2007; he was a great clay courter only with good grass court potential. Agassi was far post prime in 2005, and Nole was certainly great in 2008.

Its true that no player maintains peak form every year; however prime form consists of a player's aggregate average playing level that is high enough to contend for multiple slams and other big titles on multiple surfaces (at least when it concerns an open era great candidate).

If Federer was meeting the same one or two players in slam finals from 2004-07 on multiple surfaces then you might have a point; but he was not until post 2008...( the closest was Nadal on clay and grass from 2004-07)

As much as Federer benefitted in 2004-2007 for avoiding Nadal and Djokovic at their career best, so did Nadal and ESPECIALLY Djokovic these days when they're facing a 30 year old Federer while they are in their prime. Of course you fail to notice that, only taking the first part into consideration while insolently omitting that Djokovic and Nadal have the priviledge of facing an older Federer these days.

When Federer owned Djokovic at the 2007 AO and US Opens in straight sets Novak was too young but when Novak is beating a 30-year old Fed at the US it's a huge win. LISTEN TO YOURSELF.
 
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helloworld

Hall of Fame
Federer had it easy in 2004-2006 where he won almost half of his majors. From 2007 onwards, I wouldn't call it a weak field. However, the fact that Nadal and Djokovic had troubled Federer over the years is a sign that he really took advantage of the weak field, and would not have won 16 majors had he played against Nadal and Djoko from the start.
 

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
Federer had it easy in 2004-2006 where he won almost half of his majors. From 2007 onwards, I wouldn't call it a weak field. However, the fact that Nadal and Djokovic had troubled Federer over the years is a sign that he really took advantage of the weak field, and would not have won 16 majors had he played against Nadal and Djoko from the start.
Djokovic "troubled" Roger only once up until USO '10, and that was in the AO '08 SF. Groundbreaking stuff again. NOT. On the other hand, at 30, Roger has still given Djokovic fits at two of the three majors they played in 2011 despite being nearly 6 years older and having played twice as many matches.
 
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tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Federer had it easy in 2004-2006 where he won almost half of his majors. From 2007 onwards, I wouldn't call it a weak field. However, the fact that Nadal and Djokovic had troubled Federer over the years is a sign that he really took advantage of the weak field, and would not have won 16 majors had he played against Nadal and Djoko from the start.

How you're so sure if Djokovic and Nadal troubled Federer since 2004 (by saying troubled I mean actually beating him in big matches) they would still be at the top these days? We'll talk when Nadal and Djokovic hit 30 and the new "tough opposition" will be too hard for them to handle.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
How you're so sure if Djokovic and Nadal troubled Federer since 2004 (by saying troubled I mean actually beating him in big matches) they would still be at the top these days? We'll talk when Nadal and Djokovic hit 30 and the new "tough opposition" will be too hard for them to handle.

You can't have it both ways.

Federer is still contending for multiple slams on multiple surfaces. He is still in prime form, although not peak. His decline has not been that substantial, he's even said so himself -- one of the main reasons he's in for GOAT contention is his amazing consistency...

Also, Nadal was beating Federer in 04-07 in big matches, just not in slams other than the French.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
As much as Federer benefitted in 2004-2007 for avoiding Nadal and Djokovic at their career best, so did Nadal and ESPECIALLY Djokovic these days when they're facing a 30 year old Federer while they are in their prime. Of course you fail to notice that, only taking the first part into consideration while insolently omitting that Djokovic and Nadal have the priviledge of facing an older Federer these days.

When Federer owned Djokovic at the 2007 AO and US Opens in straight sets Novak was too young but when Novak is beating a 30-year old Fed at the US it's a huge win. LISTEN TO YOURSELF.

Even if we take your position that 30 year old Federer is substantially off his best (which I strongly disagree)...

At least Nadal and Nole have each other to worry about (and a Murray that can contend for multiple majors).

Federer had no one that was consistently contesting him on multiple surfaces in all the majors from 2004-07.
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
Nadal was not an open era great in 2004-2007; he was a great clay courter only with good grass court potential. Agassi was far post prime in 2005, and Nole was certainly great in 2008.

2005-2007, Nadal had already 3 slams, two finals, 9 masters, 3 of them being on hard court, and two hard-court final in Paris and Shanghaï. However, I agree that he wasn't the best hard-court player.

In 2008, Nole was already a top player, but he wasn't either at his "open era great" level of 2011. And Federer had a very bad year.

What I mean is that the strenght of the opposition since 2008 is not as clear as you say. Federer is not the player he was, Djoker is not the player he will be.

Its true that no player maintains peak form every year; however prime form consists of a player's aggregate average playing level that is high enough to contend for multiple slams and other big titles on multiple surfaces (at least when it concerns an open era great candidate).

First, nobody never play the aggregate average playing level of an opponent. In 2008, Nadal played Tsonga at his best, not at his average form, just like Federer did in 2006 and 2007.

Second, I don't see why being a treat on multiple surfaces is related to the peak form af any given player? Maybe all the clay-courters of the past never peaked?
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Second, I don't see why being a treat on multiple surfaces is related to the peak form af any given player? Maybe all the clay-courters of the past never peaked?

When we're talking about open era greats (such as Federer, Nadal, and Nole), being in contention to win slams on all surfaces is a prerequisite in my book... Hence 2004-07 there was one open era great (Federer), and in 2008 to present (or 2011 to make it equal number of years) there were 3 open era greats (Nadal, Federer, Nole)...
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
If Federer was meeting the same one or two players in slam finals from 2004-07 on multiple surfaces then you might have a point; but he was not until post 2008...( the closest was Nadal on clay and grass from 2004-07)

I have made some counting of the number of different opponent some open era great have met in slams finals:

Borg played 16 finals and met 8 different opponents.
Connors, 15 finals, 9 different opponents.
McEnroe, 11 finales, 5 different opponents.
Lendl, 19 finals, 9 opponents.
Agassi, 15 finals, 11 opponents.
Sampra, 18 finals, 12 opponents.
Federer, 23 finals, 12 opponents.
Nadal, 15 finals, 5 opponents.

So, except Rafa, each player met a different opponents each two slam final (ratio 2:1). It shows that the difference you point is not only between "2008-..." and "2004-2007", but between "2008-..." and all era.

I guess you would conclude that it means that the current era is the thoughest of all, and it could, but it could also mean that the current era is weak:

For years, nobody in the field was able to beat Federer before the finals in RG, and nobody in the field was able to beat a touched Nadal during 2010. --> competition is not tough enough to prevent out of form top players to reach the final/semi-final of each tornament they enter.
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
When we're talking about open era greats (such as Federer, Nadal, and Nole), being in contention to win slams on all surfaces is a prerequisite in my book... Hence 2004-07 there was one open era great (Federer), and in 2008 to present (or 2011 to make it equal number of years) there were 3 open era greats (Nadal, Federer, Nole)...

So, would you say that there were *no* open-era greats during the majority of the 90's, and are you taking Sampras totally out of the "open-era greats" discussion?
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Even if we take your position that 30 year old Federer is substantially off his best (which I strongly disagree)...

At least Nadal and Nole have each other to worry about (and a Murray that can contend for multiple majors).

Federer had no one that was consistently contesting him on multiple surfaces in all the majors from 2004-07.

This is dumb. Go on and critisize Federer that in 2004-2007 he didn't have to face himself, that's why he had no competition. He had no competition cause he was flat out the best player out there, he had no weaknesses but of course such a wise guy like yourself knows better.

And to start with, if there was no Federer, both Djokovic and Nadal wouldn't be half as good as they are these days. Federer's sky high level forced them to go beyond their limits. Look what Nadal had to do to overcome Federer at the top of the rankings (and a declining, mono-ridden low on confidence 2008 Fed) in 2008, win the Channel slam, 32 consecutive matches in a row, the guy was dead tired mid season cause he had nothing left in the tank.
Then look what Djokovic had to do to reach no 1. The guy didn't lose a match in the first 6 months of 2011 and still wasn't ranked first. All of them are pushing each other these days but Nadal, Djokovic CAN keep it up at least for now when they're in their mid 20's while Federer can sustain that level only partially as he's 30 years old+ Also you have to be completely ret**** to think that Federer is in his prime in 2012 but I'll leave it to your lack of basic knowledge.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
When we're talking about open era greats (such as Federer, Nadal, and Nole), being in contention to win slams on all surfaces is a prerequisite in my book... Hence 2004-07 there was one open era great (Federer), and in 2008 to present (or 2011 to make it equal number of years) there were 3 open era greats (Nadal, Federer, Nole)...

Maybe Federer is still so good in reaching slam semis because there's actually no competition other than Nadal and Djokovic? Ever thought about it? If it's so tough, why Old man Fed keeps going deep in every big tournament he plays hardly losing any sets. I thought that the fierce opposition was good enough to take him out earlier:)
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
I have made some counting of the number of different opponent some open era great have met in slams finals:

Borg played 16 finals and met 8 different opponents.
Connors, 15 finals, 9 different opponents.
McEnroe, 11 finales, 5 different opponents.
Lendl, 19 finals, 9 opponents.
Agassi, 15 finals, 11 opponents.
Sampra, 18 finals, 12 opponents.
Federer, 23 finals, 12 opponents.
Nadal, 15 finals, 5 opponents.

So, except Rafa, each player met a different opponents each two slam final (ratio 2:1). It shows that the difference you point is not only between "2008-..." and "2004-2007", but between "2008-..." and all era.

I guess you would conclude that it means that the current era is the thoughest of all, and it could, but it could also mean that the current era is weak:
For years, nobody in the field was able to beat Federer before the finals in RG, and nobody in the field was able to beat a touched Nadal during 2010. --> competition is not tough enough to prevent out of form top players to reach the final/semi-final of each tornament they enter.


Not at all, the fewer the amount of real contenders to win slams the less competitive the time period is...

I only raised the idea of slam finalists to refute your contention that there may have been other open era greats between 2004-07 except for Federer. If Federer was meeting the same player over and over again in slam finals between 2004-07 at every slam, then that hypothetical finalists perhaps could be considered a open era great. However, that was not the case...
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
So, would you say that there were *no* open-era greats during the majority of the 90's, and are you taking Sampras totally out of the "open-era greats" discussion?

Sampras was in contention to win the French. He made it to at least one French semi, so Sampras certainly qualifies...
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
This is dumb. Go on and critisize Federer that in 2004-2007 he didn't have to face himself, that's why he had no competition. He had no competition cause he was flat out the best player out there, he had no weaknesses but of course such a wise guy like yourself knows better.

And to start with, if there was no Federer, both Djokovic and Nadal wouldn't be half as good as they are these days. Federer's sky high level forced them to go beyond their limits. Look what Nadal had to do to overcome Federer at the top of the rankings (and a declining, mono-ridden low on confidence 2008 Fed) in 2008, win the Channel slam, 32 consecutive matches in a row, the guy was dead tired mid season cause he had nothing left in the tank.
Then look what Djokovic had to do to reach no 1. The guy didn't lose a match in the first 6 months of 2011 and still wasn't ranked first. All of them are pushing each other these days but Nadal, Djokovic CAN keep it up at least for now when they're in their mid 20's while Federer can sustain that level only partially as he's 30 years old+ Also you have to be completely ret**** to think that Federer is in his prime in 2012 but I'll leave it to your lack of basic knowledge.

Again, all of your conjecturing is based on your premise that Federer has substantially declined since turning 30. That is just plain false IMO. Federer is a half step slower and slightly less explosive in his movement than at his absolute peak; however is also a smarter and less stubborn player now and more aggressive in his returning.
 
Sampras was in contention to win the French. He made it to at least one French semi, so Sampras certainly qualifies...

One semi-final appearance and a number of early round losses doesn't qualify as a contender at the French Open.

By that logic, Gael Monfils is a contender at the French, since he made the semis in 2008.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
One semi-final appearance and a number of early round losses doesn't qualify as a contender at the French Open.

By that logic, Gael Monfils is a contender at the French, since he made the semis in 2008.

Considering the vast disparity in surfaces in the 90's, not to mention the clay court specialists... I do consider Sampras' semi appearance as proof he was a contender.

As a matter of fact any semifinalists is a contender to win that partciualr slam for that year...
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Sampras was in contention to win the French. He made it to at least one French semi, so Sampras certainly qualifies...

This is a joke, right? He got to the semis once, and promptly got straight-setted (and bagelled in the process) by a player who had never played a grand slam semi before. Can you see how desperate you're getting?

Either your theories work for everyone (or every era), or they don't hold water. You can't change them to suit your fancy. If playing a semi in a slam automatically turns you into a contender and playing one of each turns you into an all-time great, then Rafter is one, too. And even Krajicek may qualify (he didn't get to the semis of the US Open, but played three quarters--is that enough?). Same for Chang. It just never ends.
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Again, all of your conjecturing is based on your premise that Federer has substantially declined since turning 30. That is just plain false IMO. Federer is a half step slower and slightly less explosive in his movement than at his absolute peak; however is also a smarter and less stubborn player now and more aggressive in his returning.

Of course not. He started declining *before* 30.
 

Flash O'Groove

Hall of Fame
Not at all, the fewer the amount of real contenders to win slams the less competitive the time period is...

How do you assess a real contender? Because you think someone is?

At RG 2010, who was the real contender? Fed, Nole? Was Söderling a real contender to Nadal?
At Wimby 2010, was Berdych, a one time finalist just like Gonzo, a real contender (he ousted both Fed and Nole)

Every slam finalist is a real contender at the moment.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
This is a joke, right? He got to the semis once, and promptly got straight-setted (and bagelled in the process) by a player who had never played a grand slam semi before. Can you see how desperate you're getting?

Either your theories work for everyone (or every era), or they don't hold water. You can't change them to suit your fancy. If playing a semi in a slam automatically turns you into a contender and playing one of each turns you into an all-time great, then Rafter is one, too. And even Krajicek may qualify (he didn't get to the semis of the US Open, but played three quarters--is that enough?). Same for Chang. It just never ends.

To disqualify Sampras as an open era great just because he only made the semis at the French is what i would call desperate... Before Federer came along, most considered him GOAT :confused:

Like i said before; it is easier to compare 2004-07 vs 2008 to present, than with either time period with the 90's or earlier eras due to obvious similarities and constants from 2004 to now -- so your every era criteria is lacking.
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
How do you assess a real contender? Because you think someone is?

At RG 2010, who was the real contender? Fed, Nole? Was Söderling a real contender to Nadal?
At Wimby 2010, was Berdych, a one time finalist just like Gonzo, a real contender (he ousted both Fed and Nole)

Every slam finalist is a real contender at the moment.

I agree, I also would include semi-finalists...
 
Considering the vast disparity in surfaces in the 90's, not to mention the clay court specialists... I do consider Sampras' semi appearance as proof he was a contender.

As a matter of fact any semifinalists is a contender to win that partciualr slam for that year...

K, I'll play along...

Sampras in his career at the French Open:

Three losses in the first round
Five losses in the second round
One loss in the third round
Three losses in the Quarterfinals (winning a total of two sets)
One loss in the Semifinals (Straight set loss, including a bagel)

Keep in mind, a majority of those early round losses came when he was in the top 5 in the world. 1997 and 1998, losses in the second and third round respectively, he was #1 in the world.

Tell me again how Sampras was a contender at the French Open.
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
To disqualify Sampras as an open era great just because he only made the semis at the French is what i would call desperate...

I agree with you, it would be totally desperate. Now, who did disqualify him?

DRII said:
When we're talking about open era greats (such as Federer, Nadal, and Nole), being in contention to win slams on all surfaces is a prerequisite in my book...

Oh. Guess it was you... :oops:
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Again, all of your conjecturing is based on your premise that Federer has substantially declined since turning 30. That is just plain false IMO. Federer is a half step slower and slightly less explosive in his movement than at his absolute peak; however is also a smarter and less stubborn player now and more aggressive in his returning.

The same way I can make a case for 34-year old Agassi being better than his 25-year old self. His endurance was better, his groundies where more penetrating and barely broke down, he volleyed better, was also mentally tougher and more determined to win. From the "negatives" he was only slower but Andre never relied on pure speed so it didn't affect his game much.

Yet nobody with a little common would pick 2004 Agassi over 1995 Agassi. Get it now, cowboy?
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
K, I'll play along...

Sampras in his career at the French Open:

Three losses in the first round
Five losses in the second round
One loss in the third round
Three losses in the Quarterfinals (winning a total of two sets)
One loss in the Semifinals (Straight set loss, including a bagel)

Keep in mind, a majority of those early round losses came when he was in the top 5 in the world. 1997 and 1998, losses in the second and third round respectively, he was #1 in the world.

Tell me again how Sampras was a contender at the French Open.

Because he was a semi-finalist.

Next...
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Sampras was in contention to win the French. He made it to at least one French semi, so Sampras certainly qualifies...

Disagree. A player reach just one semifinal in his entire career is NOT a slam contention. That would mean Davydenko is a contention at the FO and USO because he made the semi twice at the FO and one time at the USO.

Silly you. You're beginning to reach Nadal Slam King level, who I've put him on my ignor list.
 
I think a semi-finalist is a contender...

How about you quote that.

A semi-finalist may be a contender that year, but it hardly makes someone a contender overall. There's a difference between regularly going deep in a specific event, or being an incredible player on one specific surface, and making one deep run at an event and forever being labeled a contender.

If we say "a semi-finalist" is a contender, then Monfils is a contender at the French (2008 SF), Ljubicic was a contender at the French (2006 SF), Baghdatis is a contender at the AO (2006 RU), Haas was a contender at Wimbledon (2009 SF)...The list could go on forever.

See how stupid that sounds?
 
Because he was a semi-finalist.

Next...

You're saying, because he reached the final four once out of 13 tries, where he was soundly beaten in that match, he's a contender.

OK. Clearly you and I have different ideas of what constitutes a contender.
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
A semi-finalist may be a contender that year, but it hardly makes someone a contender overall. There's a difference between regularly going deep in a specific event, or being an incredible player on one specific surface, and making one deep run at an event and forever being labeled a contender.

If we say "a semi-finalist" is a contender, then Monfils is a contender at the French (2008 SF), Ljubicic was a contender at the French (2006 SF), Baghdatis is a contender at the AO (2006 RU), Haas was a contender at Wimbledon (2009 SF)...The list could go on forever.

See how stupid that sounds?

You forgot Bjorkman, who obviously was a huge contender at Wimbledon, as he also won it several times in doubles, in addition to reaching the semis in 2006...
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Not only that, DRII once said Fed's 23 straight semifinals doesn't mean much, but now all the sudden a player only managed to reach the semi one time is a contender. Haha!
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
The same way I can make a case for 34-year old Agassi being better than his 25-year old self. His endurance was better, his groundies where more penetrating and barely broke down, he volleyed better, was also mentally tougher and more determined to win. From the "negatives" he was only slower but Andre never relied on pure speed so it didn't affect his game much.

Yet nobody with a little common would pick 2004 Agassi over 1995 Agassi. Get it now, cowboy?

You could make a case that the ocean is green and the grass is blue; doesn't make it valid!

Federer not substantially declining since 2007 is demonstrated by him consistently being in contention to win slams, including now...

Do you get it now, compadre???
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
You could make a case that the ocean is green and the grass is blue; doesn't make it valid!

Federer not substantially declining since 2007 is demonstrated by him consistently being in contention to win slams, including now...

Do you get it now, compadre???

And the fact that Sampras was soundly beaten left and right in 2001-2002 on all surfaces (including a 2nd round loss to a lucky loser at Wimbledon) doesn't mean that he was in decline, the competition just got fiercer.:)

It all depends how tall you stood in your peak years. Federer went from dominating the tour to simply being a regular slam semi-finalist, that's HIS decline, it means that Fed at 30+ despite playing visibly worse than in his mid 20's is still good enough to beat pretty much everyone bar the top 2.
 
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DRII

G.O.A.T.
Not only that, DRII once said Fed's 23 straight semifinals doesn't mean much, but now all the sudden a player only managed to reach the semi one time is a contender. Haha!

Now you decide to join the discussion :confused:

Lying should disqualify you from participation.

I have constantly praised Federer for his consistency!

Go back into your hole!
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
You're saying, because he reached the final four once out of 13 tries, where he was soundly beaten in that match, he's a contender.

OK. Clearly you and I have different ideas of what constitutes a contender.

Yes, we clearly do...

Sampras was a contender to win the French the year he made it to the semis; period point blank.

I think any semifinalist is a contender to win that slam, that year.
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
You could make a case that the ocean is green and the grass is blue; doesn't make it valid!

Federer not substantially declining since 2007 is demonstrated by him consistently being in contention to win slams, including now...

Do you get it now, compadre???

No. Because your basic premise is totally wrong, or at least heavily skewed by your perception of the situation (aka what you want the "truth" to be).

Here's another take at this situation:

1) Federer was so much better than the field in 2004-2006 that he made everyone (except Nadal on clay) look like journeymen.

2) He was so much better than the field then that, despite declining substantially since 2007, he is still in contention to win slams at 31.

Do 1 and 2 fit the facts? They sure do. So who's to say that this theory doesn't have at least as much merit as yours?
 
You forgot Bjorkman, who obviously was a huge contender at Wimbledon, as he also won it several times in doubles, in addition to reaching the semis in 2006...

Of course. I forgot about Bjorkman. I also forgot about Youhzny, who made the Semis at the US Open in 2006, and of course Schuttler and Ferriera who both made the AO Semis in 2003.

Using this critera to discern "contenders", there is no weak era. Even the highly criticized 2003, look at all the AO contenders...Such a strong year.
 
Yes, we clearly do...

Sampras was a contender to win the French the year he made it to the semis; period point blank.

I think any semifinalist is a contender to win that slam, that year.

Agreed. Sampras was in contention for one French Open, once. He lost his semifinal match in straight sets, getting bageled in the process.

He never reached another Semi at the French, so I'd say only being in contention 1/13 years means, more often than not (AKA 92% of the time), Sampras wasn't contending for the French Open. In my book, that isn't being looked at, year in, year out as a contender to do something big at an event.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Now you decide to join the discussion :confused:

Lying should disqualify you from participation.

I have constantly praised Federer for his consistency!

Go back into your hole!

To much posters are taking you to the woodshed so it doesn't hurt to include me to join, capiche?

No, you don't praise Fed. Every Fed's streaks you always said he had "NO COMPETITION".
 

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
Of course. I forgot about Bjorkman. I also forgot about Youhzny, who made the Semis at the US Open in 2006, and of course Schuttler and Ferriera who both made the AO Semis in 2003.

Using this critera to discern "contenders", there is no weak era. Even the highly criticized 2003, look at all the AO contenders...Such a strong year.

It's even worse in this case, of course. The strongest possible era would obviously be one with four different semi-finalist at each slam, ie, 16 slam contenders. Of course, you'd get a #1 who would be struggling to reach the 5,000-point mark, but hey, wouldn't that be huge?

Of course, that would mean that *this* era, with the same four players reaching the semis in most slams, is the absolute weakest you can imagine, as you only have four contenders in slams instead of 16. Oh-hum, nice demonstration...
 
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