Rate the current top 10 in order of mental strength
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The Bawss
Banned
1. Nadal
2. Ferrer
3. Djokovic
4. Federer (he has lost many matches after having had match points recently, he lost after being 2 sets up vs. Djokovic and Tsonga, also after having being 2 sets to 1 up against Del Potro in a match he should have won and he has a huge mental block against Nadal which makes him choke on BPs)
The rest are mental midgets.
2. Ferrer
3. Djokovic
4. Federer (he has lost many matches after having had match points recently, he lost after being 2 sets up vs. Djokovic and Tsonga, also after having being 2 sets to 1 up against Del Potro in a match he should have won and he has a huge mental block against Nadal which makes him choke on BPs)
The rest are mental midgets.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
lololol
Ferrer over Djokovic/Federer.
Only on TW..
Ferrer after losing the first set 79-199 (28.4%)
Federer after losing the first set 90-134 (40.2%)
Djokovic after losing the first set 56-97 (36.6%)
Ferrer over Djokovic/Federer.
Only on TW..
Ferrer after losing the first set 79-199 (28.4%)
Federer after losing the first set 90-134 (40.2%)
Djokovic after losing the first set 56-97 (36.6%)
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CocaCola
Professional
Your no.2 certainly has a great H2H with no.4 on the list which proves his mental strength.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
How about the impeccable performances in the finals he has played? He won 14 out of 29.
CocaCola
Professional
:lol: yes, that too.
The Bawss
Banned
I thought we were talking about mental strength, i.e not losing to players you shouldn't lose to and keeping a cool head in tense match situations? We are not talking about being owned. He has a decent tie-break record and a decent break point saving percentage.
TennisLovaLova
Hall of Fame
I dont really understand how one can value the mental strength of a tennis player...
But if you watched Fed's or Djoko's matches yesterday, both have insane behaviour when it comes to stay calm keep cool and let the storm pass
But if you watched Fed's or Djoko's matches yesterday, both have insane behaviour when it comes to stay calm keep cool and let the storm pass
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
Nadal can't even play tennis without picking his ass before every point. That isn't mental strength.
His mental strength in big points is an illusion anyway. He just pushes and is VERY good at it. You don't need to be calm to implement that style. It's different for shotmakers.
His mental strength in big points is an illusion anyway. He just pushes and is VERY good at it. You don't need to be calm to implement that style. It's different for shotmakers.
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
Why, you mean that percentage of finals won is relevant to assess mental strength? Without bothering about the opponents? Let's have a look at Ferrer's vanquishers in final:
Before 2007, he lost 3 finals to Andreev, Moya, and Coria. Andreev is not a very fierce player, but he beat Nadal on clay the same year (2005.
After 2007, he lost:
- One masters cup against Federer
- five final against a player named Nadal
- two against a certain Djokovic
- one against Murray, Soderling, and Ferrero
The bigger names he beat in finals are Verdasco, Nalbandian and Almagro.
It seems to me that this resume shows how strong mentally he is to beat inferior opponents, and how limited his game is to beat superior opponents. Anyway, I dont' think his loss can be explained by mental weakness!
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Ferrer is mentally tough, but my point is, he is not even close to Federer or Djokovic's league when it comes to mental strength.
underground
G.O.A.T.
imo Fed's mental strength has become much better ever since USO last year.
kragster
Hall of Fame
While I agree with your overall point, I disagree with your supporting evidence. The statistic you used does not account for the fact that Fed/Djokovic are overall better/more skilled players so they are expected to win more matches being 1 set down anyway. Federer winning from 1 set down yesterday is more about the fact that his true level is multiple times higher than his opponent than a mental strength thing.
To have an apples to apples comparison, you need to eliminate the gap in skills/talent factor between Ferrer and Djoker/Fed i.e. one way to do it would be to limit the above stat to opponents ranked outside the top 50. That way we know that all these players are 'expected' to win.
Another way would be to look at 5-set records although that then brings in physical fitness as well.
BigServer1
Legend
1) Nadal
2) Djokovic (2011-present)
3) Federer
4) Ferrer
5) Murray
6-1000) Doesn't really seem to matter much.
2) Djokovic (2011-present)
3) Federer
4) Ferrer
5) Murray
6-1000) Doesn't really seem to matter much.
TennisLovaLova
Hall of Fame
Nadal is mentally stronger because when you always have the easiest draw and play lefty it helps build confidence
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I am a Federer fan but I have to say in terms of mental strength:
1. Nadal
then there is a gap
2. Federer
3. Djokovic
then another gap
4. Murray
5. Ferrer
and then everybody else after that and you start going into mental midget territory.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Sorry, you are dead wrong here. Nadal's mental strength is second to none and I say that as a Federer fan.
S
srinrajesh
Guest
Nadal
Djokovic
Federer (Except against Nadal most times)
Murray
Ferrer
Del Potro
Djokovic
Federer (Except against Nadal most times)
Murray
Ferrer
Del Potro
TennisLovaLova
Hall of Fame
I'm also a die hard ******* and I'd say nadal cheats by taking time between points to annoy his opponents
And he grunts a lot also
All that takes on his opponents and helps him mentally
His mental strenght is built on cheating and unfair tactics
Like going take a pee when your opponent is serving for the match
And he grunts a lot also
All that takes on his opponents and helps him mentally
His mental strenght is built on cheating and unfair tactics
Like going take a pee when your opponent is serving for the match
S
srinrajesh
Guest
Last year though Nadal was terrible because of his 6 losses in a row to djoker has regained it a bit now
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
I disagree. That is a great statistic to analyze mental prowess on a tennis court. From the large sample sizes we have, recovering from a first set loss statistically favors a loss rather than a win. Even great players like Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are in 35-40% ranges.
Gap in talent and skill? Federer and Djokovic did not win those matches from a set down with beautiful looking groundstrokes. They played the big points well and won the matches. Mental strength and physical talent are related somewhat , IMO. Federer/Djokovic perform better in bigger matches because they know how good they are and that gives them the confidence to push the odds in their favor.
You say we should eliminate the gap between them in talent... why should we do that? There is no point in looking at mental strength if it does not give you any results. I can say that I am mentally tougher than Federer/Djokovic, but for an apples to apples comparison, you must eliminate the talent gap between me and Federer/Djokovic by comparing my performances against local scrub tennis players to Federer/Djokovic's performances at the grand slam level.
I don't see any reason to give Ferrer extra credit for his mental strength just because he is not as talented as Federer or Djokovic. It just does not make sense to me. It is like saying that we can't reasonably claim that Sampras was mentally tougher than Agassi because Agassi did not have as a great of a serve to rely on during big points; and for a reasonable comparison, we must have the two play a match with underhand serves to truly see who was mentally tougher. :-|
Ferrer has no excuse. In his last two matches against Nadal this year, Ferrer converted 4/25 BP against Nadal. The gap in talent is clearly not an excuse. Ferrer can clearly play his way to break points, but he folds like a cheap lawn chair and loses in straight sets every time.
Even against Federer, I remember matches where Ferrer failed to convert like 6 BP chances. I think it was WTF 2010...
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firepanda
Professional
1. Ferrer
2. Nadal
3. Federer
4. Djokovic
5. Del Potro
6. Berdych
7. Isner
8. Tipsarevic
9. Tsonga
10. Murray
Murray is a walking disaster. You don't get where he is without being a total headcase. I've three of his slams against the top players and he's been a disaster in every one of them.
2. Nadal
3. Federer
4. Djokovic
5. Del Potro
6. Berdych
7. Isner
8. Tipsarevic
9. Tsonga
10. Murray
Murray is a walking disaster. You don't get where he is without being a total headcase. I've three of his slams against the top players and he's been a disaster in every one of them.
chrischris
G.O.A.T.
1. Nadal
2.Fed/Nole
4.Delpo
5.Isner
6.Ferrer
7.Muzza
8.Tipsy
9.Tsonga
10.Berdych
2.Fed/Nole
4.Delpo
5.Isner
6.Ferrer
7.Muzza
8.Tipsy
9.Tsonga
10.Berdych
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
I think Murray is steadily climbing up the rankings of many knowledgeable tennis fans. The ability to keep a straight face during his shows is a sign of considerable mental strength.
kragster
Hall of Fame
I'm not talking about having beautiful ground-strokes. I'm saying that mental strength is not the only thing that determines whether you come back from a 1 set loss.
When you have a 1 set loss, it could mean 1 of 2 things
a) The other player is better than you in general
b) The other player is RIGHT NOW playing better than you
For guys like Fed/Djoker, 99% of the time, it is about (b). For a guy like Ferrer it is a combination of (a) and (b). By virtue of that very fact, you SHOULD expect Ferrer to have a worse record than Fed/Djoker EVEN IF HE HAD THE SAME MENTAL STRENGTH. Not saying he does, just saying that if he did, it would not show up in this stat. Ferrer can have all the mental strength in the world but he won't have the skills to come back from 1 set down to beat Federer on a hard court. Federer on the other hand can be 1 set down and all he needs to do is play his normal level and he can win.
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Mainad
Bionic Poster
Come again?? Where exactly do you think he is?? You mean, like #4 in the world with 22 titles?? Is that what you call being a walking disaster?? He's been in 3 Slam finals. Exactly how many Slam finals have Berdych, Isner, Tipsarevic and Tsonga made? If Murray is 'a walking disaster' for making 3 Slam finals, what does that make those others who have made only 1 or none at all?
In terms of mental strength on this list, there is absolutely no question that Murray is ahead of all those other guys I mentioned. His results simply defy any attempt to argue otherwise.
Backhanded Compliment
Legend
1. Federer (it's actually his mental toughness thats keeping him in the top 3)
2. Djokovic
3. Nadal
4. Ferrer
5. Murray
6. Del Potro
7. Tsonga
8. Tipsarevic
9. Isner
10. the Berd
Murray will move up considerably if he gets a slam, it is clear he gets tight because of that monkey on his back. I wouldnt be surprised at all if he wins the French because he is not expected to... but has all the tools. Even his forehand is on now and he's geting to the net enough too.
2. Djokovic
3. Nadal
4. Ferrer
5. Murray
6. Del Potro
7. Tsonga
8. Tipsarevic
9. Isner
10. the Berd
Murray will move up considerably if he gets a slam, it is clear he gets tight because of that monkey on his back. I wouldnt be surprised at all if he wins the French because he is not expected to... but has all the tools. Even his forehand is on now and he's geting to the net enough too.
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WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
No, sorry, but you are wrong. It isn't.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Nadal is easily and far and away #1 in this category and only a blind hater would suggest otherwise. Beyond that it is tough to say. Prime Federer might be #2 but he has lost some in this area. Djokovic has often been suspect in this area, but it takes mental toughness to be top 3 for 6 years in a row, and Djokovic 2.0 is alot tougher mentally than the prior version. Ferrer is a huge fighter but gets nervous when ahead and on big points sometimes. Del Potro and Isner are decent. Murray, Tsonga, Berdych, and Tipsarevic are all pretty poor for a top player in this category.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Murray #4, dont make me laugh. No way in hell is Murray mentally tougher than Ferrer, he just has a way better game. Ferrer would never play the way Murray has in his slam finals, he might get his ass whooped just as badly but it wouldnt be through playing embarassingly subpar tennis.
Mighty Matteo
Semi-Pro
1. Federer
2. Nadal
3. Djokovic
4. Murray
5. Ferrer (he has less belief)
etc.
2. Nadal
3. Djokovic
4. Murray
5. Ferrer (he has less belief)
etc.
okdude1992
Hall of Fame
Nadal had all those losses because Novak was totally outplaying him. Yet his fight was incredible (ie 3rd set USO final)
1.Nadal (never gives up, intensity even in early rounds of tournaments)
2.Djokovic (huge improvement, lots of matches he toughed out last year that he *shouldn't have won)
3.Ferrer (great fight, gets a bit tight sometimes)
4.Federer (used to be #1 mentally, but losses to nadal have shaken his confidence. perhaps less motivation now, and plus blown 2 sets to love leads to Djoko and Tsonga...)
5.Isner (very clutch, aggressive, yet patient tennis on serve, see match vs Mahut)
6. DelPotro (mellow demeanor, but can let little things bug him)
7.Murray (way too negative/passive at times,sporadic early exits, but still usually fights hard)
8.Tipsarevic (much improved, in the past didn't always focus /show up for matches he was expected to win)
9.Tsonga (wild shot selection at times, big ups and downs in his matches, typical French)
10.Berdych (Rarely ever toughs out matches where he is not playing well, questionable work ethic vs other top guys)
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Mainad
Bionic Poster
That's absolutely impossible to say since Ferrer has never made a Slam final. Until that day comes when he's mentally tough enough to finally make one, only then will we see how he fares mentally or otherwise when he actually plays it.
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IvanisevicServe
Banned
Different types of mental strength. There's strength to fight/come back when down, there's the ability to stretch leads/pull away with the lead, there's ability to hang in there during a tight match and win the big points, there's converting break points, and there's saving break points.
norbac
Legend
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Ferrer is only tough when he plays against lesser players. As soon as he has to play one of the top three of four, he is not that tough mentally. You have to put Murray ahead of Ferrer slightly because Murray has made slams finals and has won many more big titles than Ferrer.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Nope, I am not wrong. I think Federer is a more talented player who has a lot more variety and a much nicer style to watch, but if you are talking mental strength and a guy who fights every single point like it is match point, you have to give the edge to Nadal there even if you dislike him.
Talker
Hall of Fame
1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Del Potro
4. Nadal
5. Ferrer
6. Murray
7. Tsonga
8. Tipsarevic
9. Isner
10.Berdych
Fed's as tough as they get, 18/19 slam finals not only shows in tournament toughness but for such a long time.
Djokovic has been tougher last year but wasn't long enough.
Del Potro has been tougher but with a diminished game since the injury the confidence is lacking until lately.
Nadal has a high margin for error game with his topspin so he can stay in rallies longer than most, it looks like mental toughness but is really just the safe type of game he has.
2. Djokovic
3. Del Potro
4. Nadal
5. Ferrer
6. Murray
7. Tsonga
8. Tipsarevic
9. Isner
10.Berdych
Fed's as tough as they get, 18/19 slam finals not only shows in tournament toughness but for such a long time.
Djokovic has been tougher last year but wasn't long enough.
Del Potro has been tougher but with a diminished game since the injury the confidence is lacking until lately.
Nadal has a high margin for error game with his topspin so he can stay in rallies longer than most, it looks like mental toughness but is really just the safe type of game he has.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
LOL at Isner and Ferrer before Federer. Does Isner have more than 16 slams? Does Ferrer?
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Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Too hard to answer. first are we talking about mental toughness now? At each player's best? Overall career wise? Djokovic at his best last year and uo til the aussie open this year is the best out of everyone but overall he is behind both Nadal and federer.
Also Nadal is better than fed generally at toughing out close matches but worse at dealing with another player killing him. also the series of matches with djokovic last year dented his reputation.
Also Nadal is better than fed generally at toughing out close matches but worse at dealing with another player killing him. also the series of matches with djokovic last year dented his reputation.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal
Federer
Djokovic
(HUGE GAP)
Del Potro
Murray
(Gap)
Ferrer
Isner
Berdych
Tsonga
Tipsarevic
Federer
Djokovic
(HUGE GAP)
Del Potro
Murray
(Gap)
Ferrer
Isner
Berdych
Tsonga
Tipsarevic
Clarky21
Banned
primetennis
Rookie
spot on!!!
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