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Just taking into the account with the form both showed in their first US Open final, who would win, if they both came in with that form respectively?
Better question would be how many bagels does Federer hand out? ;-)
Thanks for showing your true colors; Fedephant...
Nadal would have taken out Federer. His USO 2010 form would have edged out Federer's peak (06-07) USO form.
The main reason Federer lost his 2010 semi against Nole is because he did not want the distinction of having been beaten by Nadal in the final of every slam...
Now in 2011, i think Federer would have defeated Nadal if he had made it to the final...
Thanks for showing your true colors; Fedephant...
Nadal would have taken out Federer. His USO 2010 form would have edged out Federer's peak (06-07) USO form.
The main reason Federer lost his 2010 semi against Nole is because he did not want the distinction of having been beaten by Nadal in the final of every slam...
Now in 2011, i think Federer would have defeated Nadal if he had made it to the final...
Tough. Would have gone to 5 sets for sure, but Nadal would have prevailed. Just like he always does against Federer. Nadal of US Open 2010 was a freak.
Depends. In Federer's 2004 mental state he did not have a mental problem with Nadal yet, but he also did not have the experience yet of dealing with Nadal. That's why I think Roger would have a tough time. However, the form both showed in the final specifically, Nadal stands no chance, he MAY win a set (as Hewitt almost did), but that other 2 sets I have yet to see someone stand a chance against that level.
Depends. In Federer's 2004 mental state he did not have a mental problem with Nadal yet, but he also did not have the experience yet of dealing with Nadal. That's why I think Roger would have a tough time. However, the form both showed in the final specifically, Nadal stands no chance, he MAY win a set (as Hewitt almost did), but that other 2 sets I have yet to see someone stand a chance against that level.
Keep on being butthurt
On a serious note, I actually think Federer would have edged Nadal at the USO at both their peaks.
Where did you hear that from? Seems to me you talk out of you ass alot.
This is impossible to say with any definition. Rafa's road to the 2010 US Open title was beyond easy. Gabashvilli, Istomin, Simon, Lopez, Verdasco, Youzhny, then Djokovic.
Keep in mind Djokovic notched his first win over a top 10 player in all of 2010 against Federer in the SF. Prior to that match, he hadn't beaten anyone of note all season. His form was hardly what we saw in 2011.
I think it would be close between 2004 Fed and 2010 Nadal. I do think on a fast court like that, Fed would have the advantage. The ball doesn't kick up as high, and Roger's forehand moves through the court better. With that said, Rafa has the mental advantage, so who knows.
I disagree; big surprise there...
Nole USO 2010 semi and final was Nole v1.9. He played well in both matches, particularly the final...
I also think it would be close, but given Nadal's form that year (huge serve, killer slice, great improvisation) and typical mental edge over Federer -- I would give Nadal the advantage.
Also 2004 Hewitt was certainly not the end all be all. He had lost significant foot speed by that time, and as usual had little offensive weaponry...
I disagree; big surprise there...
Nole USO 2010 semi and final was Nole v1.9. He played well in both matches, particularly the final...
I also think it would be close, but given Nadal's form that year (huge serve, killer slice, great improvisation) and typical mental edge over Federer -- I would give Nadal the advantage.
Also 2004 Hewitt was certainly not the end all be all. He had lost significant foot speed by that time, and as usual had little offensive weaponry...
Nole USO 2010 semi and final was Nole v1.9. He played well in both matches, particularly the final...
Also 2004 Hewitt was certainly not the end all be all. He had lost significant foot speed by that time, and as usual had little offensive weaponry...
Nadal US Open 010 was the best he has ever played outside Roland Garros. Also it's the only performance in the last 12 years or so, capable of taking away a US Open from Federer. Ultimately, Nadal even at that level did not return well enough to cause Federer enough trouble. Maybe it would be enough to defeat Federer of 05, but not 04. Federer was simply too good, that year and probably wins in 4.
Also lets stop with the revisionist history regarding Hewitt. Hewitt had not lost his speed in 04. He was better than in his younger years. He had improved his volleys, had a better slice and was just as fast as ever. Before he played Federer he was on a 16 match winning streak and just 1 in his last 22 matches. He got to the final without dropping a set and had just thrashed JJ and Haas. In fact I think he had only been broken twice before the final. It was a hugely impressive performance from Federer.
Nadal US Open 010 was the best he has ever played outside Roland Garros. Also it's the only performance in the last 12 years or so, capable of taking away a US Open from Federer. Ultimately, Nadal even at that level did not return well enough to cause Federer enough trouble. Maybe it would be enough to defeat Federer of 05, but not 04. Federer was simply too good, that year and probably wins in 4.
Also lets stop with the revisionist history regarding Hewitt. Hewitt had not lost his speed in 04. He was better than in his younger years. He had improved his volleys, had a better slice and was just as fast as ever. Before he played Federer he was on a 16 match winning streak and just 1 in his last 22 matches. He got to the final without dropping a set and had just thrashed JJ and Haas. In fact I think he had only been broken twice before the final. It was a hugely impressive performance from Federer.
Disagree...
Nadal has already shown he can beat a capable and healthy Federer playing well in a hard court slam final (Aussie 09).
I also disagree regarding Hewitt. Hewitt never, even at peak, had enough offense to be consistently dominant. He also lacked margin with his flat strokes. Once he began to lose foot speed (after 2002) he was a goner as far as slam championships were concerned!
Disagree...
Nadal has already shown he can beat a capable and healthy Federer playing well in a hard court slam final (Aussie 09).
I also disagree regarding Hewitt. Hewitt never, even at peak, had enough offense to be consistently dominant. He also lacked margin with his flat strokes. Once he began to lose foot speed (after 2002) he was a goner as far as slam championships were concerned!
Well, that was probably Federer's worst serving performance in a big match, ever. If you watched the final, you will remember how poor Federer's serve was, especially at big moments. Not his usual, A game self. AO 2009 was his best performance off the ground against Nadal, IMO, but the serve was dismal.
Also, the AO is a far cry from the US Open, if we're talking speed of the court and bounce. You can't take a match from Rafa's absolute peak, with Fed not at his absolute peak, on a slower, high bouncing surface, and pretend that it translates to a win over Federer from 5 years before on a surface that suits him.
Well, that was probably Federer's worst serving performance in a big match, ever. If you watched the final, you will remember how poor Federer's serve was, especially at big moments. Not his usual, A game self. AO 2009 was his best performance off the ground against Nadal, IMO, but the serve was dismal.
Also 2004 Hewitt was certainly not the end all be all. He had lost significant foot speed by that time
It could have had a lot to do with his opponent too, you know. When there is mention of all this, why is there no mention of the fact that for the same final, Nadal was coming off after having played one of the longest matches in the history of the tournament just a couple of days ago?
I just think you're selling Fed short, which I should be used to by now. His peak level at the US Open is better than Nadal's peak level there. It's Rafa's worst surface, probably Fed's best...That's why I think Fed would win.
Djokovic coming into the US Open hadn't beaten a top 10 player all year. He was still reeling from the Todd Martin fiasco, he hadn't won DC with Serbia yet...He had one Major title, and people were talking about him, asking if he'd be a one slam wonder. He wasn't the player he became in 2011, nor was he 90% of that player (IMO).
Again, it was easy to talk about Rafa's incredible level of play, but he didn't face a high caliber of opponent (until the final, and even then...see above). Fed in 2004 faced Santoro, Agassi, Henman and Hewitt. 2005 he faced Santoro, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Agassi. Those names look a lot more impressive than Verdasco, Youzhny, Djokovic.
BTW, all the things you mention to favor Rafa, great serve, killer slice, great improvisation...You've essentially described Fed, but Fed from 2004 you could add: best defense on HC, best forehand, great volleys.
This was the worst Federer had ever served against Nadal percentage wise. I don't have the stats, but just visibly it was less potent and slower than usual as well.It could have had a lot to do with his opponent too, you know. When there is mention of all this, why is there no mention of the fact that for the same final, Nadal was coming off after having played one of the longest matches in the history of the tournament just a couple of days ago?
Disagree...
Nadal has already shown he can beat a capable and healthy Federer playing well in a hard court slam final (Aussie 09).
I also disagree regarding Hewitt. Hewitt never, even at peak, had enough offense to be consistently dominant. He also lacked margin with his flat strokes. Once he began to lose foot speed (after 2002) he was a goner as far as slam championships were concerned!
Hewitt's speed didn't take a hit until 2006. Hewitt was playing his best tennis at the time of the 2004 US Open final, on a 16 match winning streak and hadn't dropped a set on his way to the US Open final.
Fed has never served that poorly against Nadal. Not before, not since.
And yes, Rafa was coming off one of the longest matches ever at the AO, and his win in 2009 was incredible, imo. I'm not taking away anything from Rafa's win, I just don't think that specific win means he would beat peak Fed at the US Open. That was my point.
Agreed. But there are also a lot of other things that point to whether peak Fed would beat Rafa today at the US Open. Everyone said the same before the Aus Open final, but Rafa beat him there and also beat him this year. Hard to say, but given the wood he has on Federer when it comes to the slams, I just tend to think it would go the other way around. Plus, we also need to factor in how bad Hewitt must have played in that final, if that scoreline is any suggestion. The biggest problem I have is the suggestion that a win or a loss either way, is always on Federer's racquet. That is pure fanboy-talk, just not being able to give the opponents their due.
Not wanting to get into an argument as usual, but I don;t think much parallell between Federer at The AO in 2009 can be drawn with Federer at the US Open in 2004. Vastly different courts and 5 years apart. Nadal at the AO 2009 and US Open 2010 is a bit easier (though he had a better serve in 2010 US Open) but there's still a big difference in surface.
Very tough to predict.
Federer played insane that day and with the kind of winners he was smacking, I would like to say Federer in 3 or 4. However, you also have to consider the match-up issue and Nadal playing his best HC tennis as well.
I think Federer would either win in 3 or lose in 5.
if their meetings at the WTF are anything to go by..and given that the USO that year was fairly fast and not high bouncing
then yeah, Fed in straights.