Roddick 2004 Wimbledon Final

R_Federer

R_Federer

Professional
Most of 1st set:

http://youtu.be/DAZzw_HzFDg

Full match highlights:

http://youtu.be/cn7DYgb4L88

I got reminded of how good Roddick actually was. Last few years people have mostly said Roddick is crap and has had a crap career.

Well I was watching highlights of the 2004 Wimbledon Final - Roddick vs Federer and wow Roddick played really well in the first set. He won the first set and had a chance to break Federer in the first game of the second set. He was actually hitting winners back then too lol and was serving over 140 KPH.

You'll also notice the court being faster than today. Lol you know which two slam champions of today wouldn't have stood a chance even against Roddick at Wimbledon :).
 
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waarp

Rookie
Roddick was supposed to be the next big thing 10 yrs ago, but he lacks (lacked lol) that "effortlessness" that defines the top players. He's always locked in these grueling 4 and 5 setters, too, especially in early rounds of majors which is tiring to watch and points this out. Reminds me of Chang. Mr. Semis lol.
 
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ubermeyer

ubermeyer

Hall of Fame
waarp said:
Roddick was supposed to be the next big thing 10 yrs ago, but he lacks (lacked lol) that "effortlessness" that defines the top players. He's always locked in these grueling 4 and 5 setters, too, especially in early rounds of majors which is tiring to watch and points this out. Reminds me of Chang. Mr. Semis lol.
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Nadal's strokes don't look effortless at all..
 
G

Gizo

Hall of Fame
Roddick won 23 sets in a row during that 2004 grass court season. Ancic was the only player to take a set off him at Queens, and the only player to take a set off at him at Wimbledon en-route to the final. Players like Dent and Schalken were dangerous grass court opponents at the time but Roddick just blew them away. Plus he straight setted Hewitt in their Queen's semi.

It was such a shame that a year late with Goldfine as his coach, Roddick was so tame and passive against Federer in the 2005 final, in sharp contrast to his excellent 2004 display. Even in their 2003 semi-final Roddick put in a very credible performance but was just outclassed by a rampant Federer. In 2005 he simply played like crap.
 
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NadalAgassi

Guest
Gizo said:
Roddick won 23 sets in a row during that 2004 grass court season. Ancic was the only player to take a set off him at Queens, and the only player to take a set off at him at Wimbledon en-route to the final. Players like Dent and Schalken were dangerous grass court opponents at the time but Roddick just blew them away. Plus he straight setted Hewitt in their Queen's semi.

It was such a shame that a year late with Goldfine as his coach, Roddick was so tame and passive against Federer in the 2005 final, in sharp contrast to his excellent 2004 display. Even in their 2003 semi-final Roddick put in a very credible performance but was just outclassed by a rampant Federer. In 2005 he simply played like crap.
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Goldfine ruined Roddick's career. He was never the same for an extended period after being coached by him.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
NadalAgassi said:
Goldfine ruined Roddick's career. He was never the same for an extended period after being coached by him.
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Whatever your opinion, it was Roddick who fired Gilbert and brought in Goldfine instead. That's probably the biggest mistake Roddick made in his career, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Goldfine had done well with coaching Todd Martin in the past.
 
tennisplayer1993

tennisplayer1993

Professional
waarp said:
Roddick was supposed to be the next big thing 10 yrs ago, but he lacks (lacked lol) that "effortlessness" that defines the top players. He's always locked in these grueling 4 and 5 setters, too, especially in early rounds of majors which is tiring to watch and points this out. Reminds me of Chang. Mr. Semis lol.
Click to expand...

thats actually really true. i remember when i started watching tennis via 2000 or so. roddick was predicted to win multiple grand slams. I still remember the oozing confidence and potential i saw in him in 2003. if it wasn't for federer he would have won the 2003 Wimbledon, making him a 2 gram slam winner for 2003.
 
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bjk

bjk

Hall of Fame
His fh was so much more powerful. And he wasn't hitting it only inside out, he was hitting across the body.
 
tennisplayer1993

tennisplayer1993

Professional
yeah that forehand was a missile coming out of andy's arm. easily the 2nd best forehand back then in terms of power/consistency. more powerful than federer but not as consistent.
 
R_Federer

R_Federer

Professional
tennisplayer1993 said:
thats actually really true. i remember when i started watching tennis via 2000 or so. roddick was predicted to win multiple grand slams. I still remember the oozing confidence and potential i saw in him in 2003. if it wasn't for federer he would have won the 2003 Wimbledon, making him a 2 gram slam winner for 2003.
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Yeah I think it was a very important match in both players' careers. I have heard Federer saying that win gave him all the confidence and just opened up the floodgates for future slams. As for Roddick I think he lost a lot of confidence after playing so well and still losing.

Even after it was a set a piece Roddick got the first break in the 3rd set. Man looking at these highlights its no surprise Roddick busted his shoulder. This guy was flat hitting with incredible power. You could just hear it this match. That forehand was indeed a missile.

The whole match was high quality in my opinion. Roddick was right after the match, he threw the kitchen sink at him...but Federer just went to his bathroom and got his tub. Oh and I don't get why people hated on Roddick as a person? He actually came to the other side of the net to greet Federer after the match.
 
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Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
tennisplayer1993 said:
yeah that forehand was a missile coming out of andy's arm. easily the 2nd best forehand back then in terms of power/consistency. more powerful than federer but not as consistent.
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There are many guys who hit a more powerful forehand than Federer. Going strictly by power, Gonzalez was a level higher than both Roddick and Federer.

Not just consistency. Federer had a better disguise on his forehand (it was harder to read where he was going with it), more topspin, more dangerous on the run, and his transition-forehand was on another level compared to Roddick.

I also don't believe Roddick had the second best forehand in the world for sure. Safin, Gonzalez and Agassi were right up there with Roddick.
 
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roberttennis54

Semi-Pro
Sid_Vicious said:
There are many guys who hit a more powerful forehand than Federer. Going strictly by power, Gonzalez was a level higher than both Roddick and Federer.

Not just consistency. Federer had a better disguise on his forehand (it was harder to read where he was going with it), more topspin, more dangerous on the run, and his transition-forehand was on another level compared to Roddick.

I also don't believe Roddick had the second best forehand in the world for sure. Safin, Gonzalez and Agassi were right up there with Roddick.
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LOL. Safin's forehand was never close to Roddick's at any point in his career. Safin never had one of the best forehands in the game. Agassi's was pretty good, but even his was not as good as Andy's. Have either of the two go forehand to forehand with Roddick and they would lose most times.
 
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Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
roberttennis54 said:
LOL. Safin's forehand was never close to Roddick's at any point in his career. Safin never had one of the best forehands in the game. Agassi's was pretty good, but even his was not as good as Andy's. Have either of the two go forehand to forehand with Roddick and they would lose most times.
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LOL! Please, your rosy memories of Roddick's forehand are fueled with nothing more than nostalgia. It was never the world-beating shot that you think it is. Safin and Agassi playing at their best would be able to crush Roddick off either wing. Especially Agassi, Andre had that amazing effortless power of the forehand. He made Federer run around during the USO 2005 final in a way Roddick was never capable of doing.
 
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kishnabe

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
It was better than 2009 Wimbledon in some ways. Federer tennis was annoying back then. Hated him for beating Roddick then.
 
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roberttennis54

Semi-Pro
Sid_Vicious said:
LOL! Please, your rosy memories of Roddick's forehand are fueled with nothing more than nostalgia. It was never the world-beating shot that you think it is. Safin and Agassi playing at their best would be able to crush Roddick off either wing. Especially Agassi, Andre had that amazing effortless power of the forehand. He made Federer run around during the USO 2005 final in a way Roddick was never capable of doing.
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Safin was playing at his best at the Australian Open in 2004. It took him 5 sets to beat Roddick. He was also in the form of his life in the fall off 2004 and guess what he lost again. Agassi matched up well with players like Roddick due to his return. Still he lost the majority of forehand rallies as well. It seems you are the one effected by nostalgia and not the reality of the situation.

Agassi in the 2005 final zeroed in on Federer's backhand and it was hardly a vintage performance from Federer. Agassi was not trading forehand to forehand with him successfully.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
roberttennis54 said:
Safin was playing at his best at the Australian Open in 2004. It took him 5 sets to beat Roddick.
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Which was an upset considering that Roddick was world number 1 while Safin was down at 86 in the world after his 2003 injury problems. I have the ESPN version of that match, and the commentators were really arrogant early in the match, thinking that Roddick would easily dismiss Safin. It went to script for them in the first set, but then their mood started changing, and it ended with Roddick going O...U...T.
 
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roberttennis54

Semi-Pro
Mustard said:
Which was an upset considering that Roddick was world number 1 while Safin was down at 86 in the world after his 2003 injury problems. I have the ESPN version of that match, and the commentators were really arrogant early in the match, thinking that Roddick would easily dismiss Safin. It went to script for them in the first set, but then their mood started changing, and it ended with Roddick going O...U...T.
Click to expand...

Though this does not change what I said. Safin found his best form and was playing on his favourite surface. Safin at his best could not return the Roddick serve well enough to beat him consistently and he actually lost most of the forehand to forehand exchanges.
 
S

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
roberttennis54 said:
Safin was playing at his best at the Australian Open in 2004. It took him 5 sets to beat Roddick. He was also in the form of his life in the fall off 2004 and guess what he lost again. Agassi matched up well with players like Roddick due to his return. Still he lost the majority of forehand rallies as well. It seems you are the one effected by nostalgia and not the reality of the situation.

Agassi in the 2005 final zeroed in on Federer's backhand and it was hardly a vintage performance from Federer. Agassi was not trading forehand to forehand with him successfully.
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LOL. What a load of garbage? You are so focused in over-hyping Roddick's abilities that you are making up non-sense lies about other players. Safin was not even close to his peak level at AO 2004. Yeah, Safin comes into AO 2004 ranked 86th and struggles to win every single round and reaches the final to get crushed by Federer. Yeah, he was playing his best alright :roll:

Safin beating Roddick at AO 2004 just shows that Roddick was a lame world number 1. Forehand rallies? Roddick and Safin were not hosting a practice session. There was no intent to have just forehand to forehand rallies. The bottom line is that Safin's forehand did plenty of damage to Roddick.

Safin's forehand also held up a lot better against Federer the following year at AO 2005, when Safin was actually playing his best (unlike the 2004 AO). Roddick could never dictate play against Federer in the manner Safin did at AO 2005.

"Agassi was not trading forehand to forehand with him [Federer] successfully?". LOL! As if Roddick was the master of handling Federer's forehand, right?
 
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roberttennis54

Semi-Pro
Sid_Vicious said:
LOL. What a load of garbage? You are so focused in over-hyping Roddick's abilities that you are making up non-sense lies about other players. Safin was not even close to his peak level at AO 2004. Yeah, Safin comes into AO 2004 ranked 86th and struggles to win every single round and reaches the final to get crushed by Federer. Yeah, he was playing his best alright :roll:

Safin beating Roddick at AO 2004 just shows that Roddick was a lame world number 1. Forehand rallies? Roddick and Safin were not hosting a practice session. There was no intent to have just forehand to forehand rallies. The bottom line is that Safin's forehand did plenty of damage to Roddick.

Safin's forehand also held up a lot better against Federer the following year at AO 2005, when Safin was actually playing his best (unlike the 2004 AO). Roddick could never dictate play against Federer in the manner Safin did at AO 2005.

"Agassi was not trading forehand to forehand with him [Federer] successfully?". LOL! As if Roddick was the master of handling Federer's forehand, right?
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Safin came into 2004 Australian Open recovering from his injury, but he found his best form during it. He beat Roddick and Agassi before running out of gas. He was playing very well in the tournament,

What excuse have you got for the Masters Cup match? Where Roddick won?

Here is the match again so you can remind yourself of what actually happened.
http://vault.australianopentv.com/
 
S

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
roberttennis54 said:
Safin came into 2004 Australian Open recovering from his injury, but he found his best form during it. He beat Roddick and Agassi before running out of gas. He was playing very well in the tournament,

What excuse have you got for the Masters Cup match? Where Roddick won?

Here is the match again so you can remind yourself of what actually happened.
http://vault.australianopentv.com/
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You are wrong. Safin was nowhere near his best form at AO 2004. Safin even got booed in the final against Federer by the crowd, to which he replied " Guys, I'm trying my best,okay!"

Safin was at his peak form at AO 2005.


What excuse have I got for Safin losing to Roddick at TMC 2004? None.I am not the one who brought lame arguments using cherry-picked matches as examples. That is your forte.

Since you like those arguments, what is your excuse for Roddick getting beaten by 34 year old Agassi at cincy in 2004? Let me guess, Roddick hit a few forehand winners in that match that led you to falsely assume that Roddick won most of the forehand rallies?

In case you need a refresher, here is a youtube link for Roddick vs Agassi 2004 Cincy. Agassi had no issue going toe-to-toe with Roddick's baseline game. Why should he? Even at 34, Agassi's superior talent shines through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUIgsUrU5g
 
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roberttennis54

Semi-Pro
Sid_Vicious said:
You are wrong. Safin was nowhere near his best form at AO 2004. Safin even got booed in the final against Federer by the crowd, to which he replied " Guys, I'm trying my best,okay!"

Safin was at his peak form at AO 2005.


What excuse have I got for Safin losing to Roddick at TMC 2004? None.I am not the one who brought lame arguments using cherry-picked matches as examples. That is your forte.

Since you like those arguments, what is your excuse for Roddick getting beaten by 34 year old Agassi at cincy in 2004? Let me guess, Roddick hit a few forehand winners in that match that led you to falsely assume that Roddick won most of the forehand rallies?

In case you need a refresher, here is a youtube link for Roddick vs Agassi 2004 Cincy. Agassi had no issue going toe-to-toe with Roddick's baseline game. Why should he? Even at 34, Agassi's superior talent shines through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUIgsUrU5g
Click to expand...

Nobody tried to claim Roddick had a better baseline game than Safin or Agassi. Safin in my opinion has the best backhand ever and Agass's is probably second. Overall their baseline game is better, but watching both matches you can see who has the better forehand.

Safin could never beat Roddick easily, because he could not return his serve or beat him forehand to forehand. Tennis is about match ups and Roddick matched up well with Safin, not so well with Agassi.

However on the forehand side alone he was better than both.

EDIT
The problem with Roddick's baseline game is there was always a place to go. If you could get it to his backhand you were relatively safe. Even if he was in control. Especially when you had a great backhand like Agassi.
 
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Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
roberttennis54 said:
Nobody tried to claim Roddick had a better baseline game than Safin or Agassi. Safin in my opinion has the best backhand ever and Agass's is probably second. Overall their baseline game is better, but watching both matches you can see who has the better forehand.

Safin could never beat Roddick easily, because he could not return his serve or beat him forehand to forehand. Tennis is about match ups and Roddick matched up well with Safin, not so well with Agassi.

However on the forehand side alone he was better than both.

EDIT
The problem with Roddick's baseline game is there was always a place to go. If you could get it to his backhand you were relatively safe. Even if he was in control. Especially when you had a great backhand like Agassi.
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I disagree completely. Especially about Roddick having a better forehand than Agassi. Agassi's forehand was amazing and it was a spectacular shot for almost his whole career. Roddick had a span of 2-3 years where he had a big forehand. Roddick had an amazing forehand, no doubt about that. However, I don't think his forehand was ever in the league Federer's was. What Federer did to Hewitt with his forehand at USO 2004 is something Roddick would never be able to accomplish even on his finest forehand-smacking day.
 
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roberttennis54

Semi-Pro
Sid_Vicious said:
I disagree completely. Especially about Roddick having a better forehand than Agassi. Agassi's forehand was amazing and it was a spectacular shot for almost his whole career. Roddick had a span of 2-3 years where he had a big forehand. And even then, Roddick's forehand was hardly unflappable like Federer's was in the mid 2000's.
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Roddick, Gonazalez and Blake were the only players, who could go forehand to forehand with Federer and get success. Agassi had a great forehand and him taking it early made it even better. Let's agree to disagree.

EDIT

Nobody said Roddick had a better forehand than Federer. You reference the US Open final, but people really seem to forget how great Federer's backhand was, nor how creative a baseliner he is. Agassi said it best when he said there was "no where to go with Federer."Federer also naturally moves much better and can get around the backhand to hit the forehand more often. He reads the game better and knows when he is able to hit a forehand. This is something people ignore when they talk about how great Sampras's forehand was. Yes Sampras's forehand was up there with the best of all time, but he did not have the court sense of Federer from the baseline.
 
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Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
roberttennis54 said:
Roddick, Gonazalez and Blake were the only players, who could go forehand to forehand with Federer and get success. Agassi had a great forehand and him taking it early made it even better. Let's agree to disagree.

EDIT

Nobody said Roddick had a better forehand than Federer. You reference the US Open final, but people really seem to forget how great Federer's backhand was, nor how creative a baseliner he is. Federer also naturally moves much better and can get around the backhand to hit the forehand more often. He reads the game better and knows when he is able to hit a forehand. This is something people ignore when they talk about how great Sampras's forehand was. Yes Sampras's forehand was up there with the best of all time, but he did not have the court sense of Federer from the baseline.
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Great points. You maybe right and I respect your opinion.

I just think Agassi does not get enough credit. He surely could not have won 8 slams with just a good backhand. He had a very good forehand as well. Sure, Andre could never crack 100 mph forehands like Roddick, but his forehand was very high quality during big rallies. It is kinda like people saying that Federer's serve is average because he can't crack 130 mph. It does not do justice to the quality of shot it actually is.
 
10is

10is

Professional
Sid_Vicious said:
There are many guys who hit a more powerful forehand than Federer. .
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In his prime? No. I disagree. Apart from Gonzalez, Blake and Roddick, who else?

Case in point, the forehand winners culminating the first two points are probably amongst the most powerful ever struck (and mind you, this is on "slow" rebound ace):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k_Z6Ijd2DY

Also, this rally ending forehand winner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEnOoMYz44g&feature=player_detailpage#t=271s

roberttennis54 said:
Roddick, Gonazalez and Blake were the only players, who could go forehand to forehand with Federer and get success.
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Can you please cite those matches because I distinctly recall that (apart from a few random forehand winners)there was literally no one who ever had any success going forehand to forehand against Federer on a consistent basis during his prime.

Sid_Vicious said:
It is kinda like people saying that Federer's serve is average because he can't crack 130 mph.
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Again, he used to cracked 130 mph on a regular basis during his prime -- his fastest serve is 137 mph. He has lost 5 mph on his serve since 2008.
 
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tennisplayer1993

tennisplayer1993

Professional
Gizo said:
Roddick won 23 sets in a row during that 2004 grass court season. Ancic was the only player to take a set off him at Queens, and the only player to take a set off at him at Wimbledon en-route to the final. Players like Dent and Schalken were dangerous grass court opponents at the time but Roddick just blew them away. Plus he straight setted Hewitt in their Queen's semi.

It was such a shame that a year late with Goldfine as his coach, Roddick was so tame and passive against Federer in the 2005 final, in sharp contrast to his excellent 2004 display. Even in their 2003 semi-final Roddick put in a very credible performance but was just outclassed by a rampant Federer. In 2005 he simply played like crap.
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Agreed I think summer hard courts 2003 roddick and definitely grass court 2004 season, he was playing ridiculously well.
 
clayman2000

clayman2000

Hall of Fame
I dont get why people complain so much about Goldfine. Yeah he did a bad job with Roddick, but players change over time for the better and for the worse.

Roddick still made the finals of the US Open in 06, Wimby in 09, and his biggest problem was always Federer.

He had an amazing career. He had deficiencies, but he worked with what he had
 
G

gsharma

Professional
R_Federer said:
Most of 1st set:

http://youtu.be/DAZzw_HzFDg

Full match highlights:

http://youtu.be/cn7DYgb4L88

I got reminded of how good Roddick actually was. Last few years people have mostly said Roddick is crap and has had a crap career.

Well I was watching highlights of the 2004 Wimbledon Final - Roddick vs Federer and wow Roddick played really well in the first set. He won the first set and had a chance to break Federer in the first game of the second set. He was actually hitting winners back then too lol and was serving over 140 KPH.

You'll also notice the court being faster than today. Lol you know which two slam champions of today wouldn't have stood a chance even against Roddick at Wimbledon :).
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Roddick was quite imposing physically back then. Also, the courts do seem lower bouncing even though the grass was changed around 2002-3. A 2004 Roddick on a faster, low-bouncing grass takes out Nadal and Joker for sure.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
BigServer1 said:
Mustard said:
R_Federer said:
You'll also notice the court being faster than today. Lol you know which two slam champions of today wouldn't have stood a chance even against Roddick at Wimbledon :).
Click to expand...

I think you're dreaming :twisted:
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Dreaming that the court seems faster? I agree with the OP, the court seemed quicker and the bounce was lower than now too.
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Correct. Grass was gradually slow down and added higher bounce which suits for Nadal and Nole.

BBC overlaid two serves by Roger Federer, one in 2003, the other in 2008, both at 126 MPH on a similar line of flight. The 2008 serve goes 9 mph hour slower, after the bounce, than the 2003 serve, or 20% slower. The ball also bounces perhaps a foot higher.

This is a tremendous advantage for the returner: The ball is slower, arrives later and sits up.
Click to expand...
http://www.fawcette.net/2012/02/hard-courts-fast-clay-slow-not-so-much-.html (thanks to Flash O'Groove)
 
tennisplayer1993

tennisplayer1993

Professional
clayman2000 said:
I dont get why people complain so much about Goldfine. Yeah he did a bad job with Roddick, but players change over time for the better and for the worse.

Roddick still made the finals of the US Open in 06, Wimby in 09, and his biggest problem was always Federer.

He had an amazing career. He had deficiencies, but he worked with what he had
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Goldfine definitely got screwed Roddick over. Roddick was horrendous for the first half of 2006 because of him, he seemed clueless on court. Connors revived him
 
TheFifthSet

TheFifthSet

Legend
10is said:
Again, he used to cracked 130 mph on a regular basis during his prime -- his fastest serve is 137 mph. He has lost 5 mph on his serve since 2008.
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If you look @ his serving speeds on a match-to-match basis, you'll see his serving speed (on an average day) has remained virtually identical since 2002-2003. I've been keeping track of his match statistics keenly for years and barring injury or extreme exhaustion, his serve has always averaged 115-118. Low 130s is his top-out speed, and I don't think it's accurate to say he cracked it on a regular basis (depends on how you define 'regular'.)
But overall, to say he's lost 5 mph on his serve is flat-out incorrect. You just have to look at the match logs over the years to see.
 
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