Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
I personally want to see Tomas Berdych win a slam. I love his game. Such clean and powerful ballstriking.
Who would you like to see breakthrough and win a slam: Berdych or Tsonga.
- Thread starter Sid_Vicious
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tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Problem solved, I guess.
If I had to pick one I'd go with Tsonga.
Doesn't sound like you are enamored of either one as well!
It is a rough pick! We need some younger fresh talent in the top ten pronto!
Jackuar
Hall of Fame
Agree. Me too doesn't like both....
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Tsonga, if we have no other choice. I'd rather have Monfils as a one slam wonderer , IF he ever elevates his game.
, IF he ever elevates his game.
Roddick85
Hall of Fame
Tsonga all the way. He was one my pick to finally win a slam this year, quite deceived he didn't pull it off. I do still hope/think he'll win one before the end of his career. I like his offensive style, he's a great indoor player too, and to top it off he's got charisma, he's very likable.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Tsonga looks great in some matches. Remember his incredible display at AO 2008 in the semifinals? Not even god mode Federer could dream of hitting those types of dropshots, volleys and stab volleys against Rafa! :lol:
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Tsonga's got great personality and really connects with the crowd. They enjoy watching him play as much as he enjoys putting on a show. You can see Tsonga is very passionate about his tennis and every win to him is meaningful with the way he leaps in the air and cheers and claps.
He has all the tools. He needs a good coach. Lately watching his matches it sometimes looks as though he is lost.
Footwork? Lateral movement? Consistent backhand? Good ROS?
All things that he lacks.
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
Tsonga...has a good personality, and a very chaming, shy, charismatic guy. A great game....full of power and finesse oddly. Actually goes to the net compared to the other bashers....would like to see him win a slam.
Tsonga winning a slam is more realistic than Berdych, and Ferrer winning one. At one point more than Murray.
Tsonga winning a slam is more realistic than Berdych, and Ferrer winning one. At one point more than Murray.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
Berdych is just a ball basher and not even the best one seen the last 5 years or so (eg- prime Del Potro, Soderling, in form Gulbis or Cilic) in an era ball bashers arent that successful anyway. Tsonga has everything in his game Berdych has, atleast as much power, but much better volleys, better movement, more creativity and flair, more variety. Berdych is more consistent in his level of play without the ups and downs of Tsonga though.
Would much rather see Tsonga win one. I respect Berdych can be a dangerous player for "some" of the top guys on a good day, but I find him a bit boring, and Tsonga can beat anyone when he is on so has more chances to win a big event than Berdych who has to avoid Nadal and Djokovic both to even have a small chance.
Would much rather see Tsonga win one. I respect Berdych can be a dangerous player for "some" of the top guys on a good day, but I find him a bit boring, and Tsonga can beat anyone when he is on so has more chances to win a big event than Berdych who has to avoid Nadal and Djokovic both to even have a small chance.
All the things that he is capable of improving if he had a good coach. He has the type of crazy athleticism that make winning a slam possible. A good coach can pinpoint his deficiencies and set up a program to work on these easily fixable things. It's not like John Isner who is clearly lacking everything that you mention. As much as Isner works, because he is not the athlete that Tsonga is, his improvement is limited. Tsonga has it in his ability and if you watch his AO match against Nadal (2008?) you will see it.
Lol at Tsonga moving better than Berdych. :lol: Just because he would outrun him in a 40 yard dash, doesn't mean he moves better.
Berdych's BH, ROS and footwork >>>> Tsonga.
Also lol at Cilic and Gulbis being better than him "in form".
Going by that logic, Berdych is better than Soderling and Del Poro "in form" as well. Not to mention he has advantages that Sod and Delpo don't have. Soderling is a much more one dimensional player than Berdych. Doesn't move nearly as well, doesn't return as well and if you manage to take time away from him, you can hurt him. Not so with Berdych.
Del Potro is nowhere near as agressive as Berdych, even though he has more weight of shot. It's easier to track down Del Potro's shots than it is to track down Berdy's. Berdych serves better, returns better and hits a better backhand as well.
okdude1992
Hall of Fame
Neither are champions. Although I like Tsonga's flair and the way he gets the crowd going. Never really liked Berdych, especially after the Almagro incident. If either, I'd much prefer to see Tsonga win one.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
I have seen play and for me his overall movement is the better of the two. Berdych's footwork might be a bit better but he is still far enough behind in speed he still overall is the weaker of the two.
Tsonga's FH, Serve, Volleys, Overhead, Transition game, Overall Speed and Overall Athletic Ability >>> Berdych. Hmmm more >>>> for Tsonga than Berdych.
Why is that Tsonga can beat any of the big 4 when he is on and has done so many times, while Berdych is useless vs both Nadal and Djokovic.
Watch Gulbis-Berdych at Wimbledon this year, where Gulbis hit twice as many winners in his win over Berdych, then get back to me.
What logic is that exactly? The guy who beat both Nadal and Federer at Roland Garros, reached back to back slam finals, and has actually won a recent Masters where the top 5 didnt all not play, is inferior to Berdych in form somehow. The guy who has won a slam title beating Federer and Nadal back to back is lesser in form to Berdych, haha.
On what planet is Berdych somehow this expert mover, LOL! Soderling moves worse but that is just because of how bad he is, both are poor movers. If you take time away from Berdych it is easy to hurt him as well. Djokovic has done this in many of their matches, and in form Federer has done it many times as well. Nadal who plays more agressively vs Berdych in general than most of his matches, has also successfully done this many times.
Yes that is why Del Potro was owning Nadal for a 8 month window before his wrist injury, while Berdych cant even make a tiny dent in Nadal. That is why Del Potro in that 8 month window was becoming Federer's nemisis (much moreso than Berdych), and totally overpowered him in all 3 of their matches, even the one loss.
Anyway check out the poll results. Most apparently agree with me on this one.
TheFifthSet
Legend
I've always said Tsonga is one of the few guys who has what it takes to challenge the top 4. I would like him to with a major, moreso than Berdych and I think he's more likely to. And that's a bit puzzling, because game-wise you'd think Berdych would thrive in this era more than Tsonga: MUCH better backhand, better ROS, good mover for a big guy and serve is arguably just as good. Tsonga's FH is slightly better but less consistent, although his netplay is a lot better. But I think that what separates Tsonga is that he seems to have genuine self-belief that he can do it. He's beaten just about everybody in a major, in fact he's beaten all of the top 4 -- think about that for a second. And when he hasn't beaten them, he's given them extremely tough matches: MP's against Djokovic this year at the FO, gave him hell at the Aussie in '08, and has taken a set off Djokovic/Murray the last 3 years at Wimby.
He just has this air of confidence and flair that most guys don't have. And he's a throwback at times, with the net play and first strike tennis so I'd love to see him do it. When his game is on, it's lethal and he's almost unplayable. I think if a draw opens up for him, and he only needs to beat one or two of the top four, he can do it. I believe he has a good 3 year window to do it -- yes, he'll be 30, but he will have less mileage than the average 30 year old given how he was sidelined early in his career for a long time.
He just has this air of confidence and flair that most guys don't have. And he's a throwback at times, with the net play and first strike tennis so I'd love to see him do it. When his game is on, it's lethal and he's almost unplayable. I think if a draw opens up for him, and he only needs to beat one or two of the top four, he can do it. I believe he has a good 3 year window to do it -- yes, he'll be 30, but he will have less mileage than the average 30 year old given how he was sidelined early in his career for a long time.
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Berdych's footwork isn't "a bit better". It's lightyears better. Tsonga has horrible footwork for his size.
He is mentally tougher? He has a better serve?
Who cares? What makes you think he was redlining his game to the same extent Gulbis was?
Career achivements=/=in-form destructiveness.
You have no idea what you're talking about. If Berdych wasn't good at taking the ball early, he wouldn't have had the success he's had against Federer.
Soderling has monolithic strokes, which makes it difficult for him to time the ball when his opponent rushes him.
1. Del Potro owning Nadal has nothing to do with superior agression. He is taller than Berdych and thus can hit down on Nadal's shots. He is also far more consistent than Berdych, which helps considering Nadal makes you hit a lot of balls.
2. 2 of those matches that Del Potro won against Nadal happened after that injury/layoff in 2009. He was ripe for the taking and Del Potro was in the form of his life.
3. You must be delusional. The only guy who "completely overpowered" Federer in recent times was Soderling in Roland Garros.
Seriously, this is why Del Potro is overrated. Apparently, his victory against Federer in the WTF, which was a dead rubber match counts. He also didn't "completely overpower " Federer in the US Open. He was about to go 2 sets to 0 down. He hit more winners sure. If that's sufficient to "completely overpower" somebody then Federer "completely overpowered" Nadal in just about every match they played.
Also, what the poll says is completely irrelevant. "Let's eat sh*t. Trillions of flies can't be wrong." :lol: It's also a subjective question. "Who would you LIKE to see win a major."
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Rock Strongo
Legend
Tsonga, because flamboyant.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Who would you like to see win majors - Tsonga or Berdych and why Tsonga?
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
I disagree. Tsonga might have wins over the top 4, but he is not a mentally strong player. He plays so poorly and without focus sometime that you would think he has a brain injury. Just like Berdych, Tsonga has shown that on a very good day he can eliminate a top seed and then promptly get his ass handed to him in the next round by another top seed. As far as his game is concerned, he is no more unplayable when he is on then Berdych. Berdych can also play tremendous first strike tennis. When he is playing well, the only thing his opponents can do is defend. Just like Tsonga, Berdych has issues with consistency.
I guess what I like about Berdych is that his game is incredibly smooth. He hits a really clean ball. Tsonga has some of the ugliest groundstrokes on tour. He is always off balance, muscles his backhand, and his volleys are very overrated (Murray made him look ******** at net during Wimbledon).
BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
Berdych.
10berdychs
10berdychs
Mainad
Bionic Poster
IMO they both seem curiously similar in terms of their playing style, consistency, records and achievements and they both have roughly similar records against the top 4:
Berdych:
v Federer 5-11
v Djokovic 1-9
V Murray 4-3
v Nadal 3-12
Total: 13-35
Tsonga:
v Federer 3-8
v Djokovic 5-7
v Murray 1-6
v Nadal 3-7
Total: 12-28
Tsonga has 9 titles, Berdych 7. Both have won 1 Masters title in their career, in each case Paris and in each case several years ago (Berdych 2005, Tsonga 2008 ). Both have appeared in one Slam final which was several years ago ( Tsonga at 2008 AO, Berdych at 2010 Wimbledon). Both currently jockey for the #6 and #7 world ranking spots (Berdych recently moved up to #6 spot. Tsonga moved down to #7).
So for me, there's really not much to choose between them levelwise. However Tsonga seems the more likeable and personable of the two and so, if I had to choose which of the two I would prefer to see do it, I guess it would be Tsonga. But either has as much chance as the other in my opinion.
Berdych:
v Federer 5-11
v Djokovic 1-9
V Murray 4-3
v Nadal 3-12
Total: 13-35
Tsonga:
v Federer 3-8
v Djokovic 5-7
v Murray 1-6
v Nadal 3-7
Total: 12-28
Tsonga has 9 titles, Berdych 7. Both have won 1 Masters title in their career, in each case Paris and in each case several years ago (Berdych 2005, Tsonga 2008 ). Both have appeared in one Slam final which was several years ago ( Tsonga at 2008 AO, Berdych at 2010 Wimbledon). Both currently jockey for the #6 and #7 world ranking spots (Berdych recently moved up to #6 spot. Tsonga moved down to #7).
So for me, there's really not much to choose between them levelwise. However Tsonga seems the more likeable and personable of the two and so, if I had to choose which of the two I would prefer to see do it, I guess it would be Tsonga. But either has as much chance as the other in my opinion.
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BauerAlmeida
Hall of Fame
Yes, and Soderling too. Same style and achievments pretty much (one more slam final), but unfortunately I think we'll never hear from him again.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
I agree with most of what you said but you have to consider all of Berdych's wins over Nadal came 2006 or earlier. He hasnt been a threat to Nadal in years and probably never will be again. The biggest difference between them is there are 2 players Berdych just cant beat- Nadal and Djokovic. There are no top 4 players Tsonga cant beat on a given day, and if his h2h vs Murray is almost as bad as Berdych's vs Djokovic, he had real chances in some of their matches, whereas Berdych is strangled helpess in virtually all his matches with Djokovic.
Neither for me, sorry am not impressed with either. Berdych always folds when the chips are down at the slams, and Tsonga isn't consistent enough. When Tsonga's on he's a force, but just not consistent.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
No need to apologize, Jukka1970. I certainly don't believe that Berdych/Tsonga will win a slam for sure. They both have a long way to go if they want to win. I was just wondering which of these two guys people would want to see succeed.
Ico
Hall of Fame
Tsonga is a far more interesting person on and off of the court. Berdych, as good of a baseline basher as he is, just doesn't amaze me in the same way. My favorite match this year that didn't involve Fed would definitely be the Djokovic-Tsonga QF at RG, even if it didn't end the way I'd have liked.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
Nice looking game I guess; he plays the angles well. The trouble is he is a complete jerk, one of the most self-serving sportsmen I've ever seen. He does not give his opponents credit at all (Murray only won due to the wind, an opinion shared by the resident haters of this forum, of course). His absurd antics with Almagro and misrepresenting him afterwards (Almagro "had the whole court to hit at" when a 6'5 man with a huge wingspan was covering the angle entirely) . While I always thought the campaign to portray Soderling as unlikeable was not grounded in reality, if anything, Berdych's behaviour is underreported. There is no guy on tour I enjoy seeing destroyed more than him. Watching Nadal and Djokovic slaughter him is always a pleasure.
Tsonga seems like a good guy and has a flashy game but I think he is less likely to win a major. He does not have the concentration to stay with it throughout multiple best of five matches with top players.
Tennis sensation
Legend
Tsonga would be my choice
When did he say this? Or did you just produce that out of your vivid imagination.
I'm pretty sure he said "Murray adjusted to the wind better". Pretty sure that's a form of credit.
Being a pro athlete must be hell. You are watched by petty people who will understand your words the way they like it.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
In all fairness, I don't think Berdych's matches v Djokovic are all quite the beat-downs you suggest. He won a set in 5 out of the 9 matches he lost to him including 4 out of the last 5. But it does seem that Djokovic is the worst match-up for him maybe even including Nadal. As I suggested in another thread, it may be the reason why he chose not to defend his Beijing title this year against Djokovic and has chosen to play in Tokyo where he will be seeded to play the final against Murray, a guy he has a better H2H against.
TTMR
Hall of Fame
Of course he didn't say that literally. However, if you watch the entire press conference at usopen.org, it goes far beyond "Murray adjusted to the wind better"; it was quite clear he believed he lost due to the wind. I don't know how anyone could interpret it differently.
Federer took a lot of flak last year, unfairly in my view, for saying Djokovic essentially took a swipe at the ball on Federer's match point and it landed in. Berdych was far more explicit in explaining the reasons for his loss. Again, watch it in full: he does nothing but gripe about the wind and suggest the match should have been postponed. He does not really give credit to Murray at all.
I guess you are not one of the people that (under a different username, of course) write scathing diatribes after someone posts a google translation of some tame Nadal comments on the state of the game.
And no, being a pro athlete is not hell. I highly doubt Berdych would trade places with you or me if given the opportunity. Sure, his words are subject to immense scrutiny while you and I can utter the most absurd inanities and not be criticized for it, but that's only because nobody cares what we think. Hardly a desirable tradeoff.
I typically don't criticize Nadal too much, don't worry about that.
I guess i exaggarated with the "hell" bit. But when I see the most neutral statements being misinterpreted (let's be honest, it's not accidental) it annoys me. I mean look at the "Federer telling Djokovic's camp to shut up" matter: People STILL spread misinformation aboutt it, despite the fact that not only are these 2 famous people, but there was also an effing camera taping the issue and a mic was picking up what Federer said. The truth was available to just about anybody. Yet still people manage to depict Federer semi politely asking somebody to tone it down as him telling them to "shut up". I mean, if those guys still have to deal with misinformation despite the fact that it is available on youtube for anyone that cares, what chance do we have?
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NadalAgassi
Guest
Fair point, I guess it is more the matches I have watched between Berdych and Djokovic feel like beatdowns and Berdych often seems helpless, except for Wimbledon 2009 where I watched an on fire Berdych win decisively over Djokovic but in the midst of his worst slump ever and on by far his worst surface. I havent watched every single match they played as neither is a favorite of mine. However unless Nadal dissapears entirely (which while IMO unlikely is possible I concede, nobody knows for sure what his future is at this point) the odds of avoiding both Nadal and Djokovic in a potential slam winning draw is virtually impossible. Especialy for someone not ranked in the top 4, and being slated to play 3 top 4 players barring a seeding upset. Anyway even if he sometimes beats Murray and Federer and can definitely beat either, it is not like he is the more likely winner when he plays them in a major match, nor is he unvurnerable to upsets by lower ranked opponents, so he would probably need a good 4 slams or more avoiding somehow avoiding both Djokovic and Nadal both, to possibly win 1. Good luck with that.
That is why I think Tsonga has a better chance. He doesnt have any top 4 opponent he simply HAS to avoid, let alone the 2 most dominant players overall of the last several years.
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