Some Lansdorp Coaching

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5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
Here is some vid of one of the all time famous coaches in the US.
2010 video it appears and you can look to see how modern you find the form.
He talks of working to hit more of "his" type Fhs and less of the USTA and Academy
Fhs. Shows the RL Fh being about 1.5' over the net saying it uses less topspin
as well. His words mention how the USTA and Academy balls use more spin.
I don't see any mention of where on the court to use his low clearance, lower spin
shot, but he is working the kid fully back at the BL area and talks of using
his shots to put the ball away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfcGkC83oY

One uninformed poster in another thread says he doesn't speak poorly of other
coaches etc...but here he has the parents laughing at Braden's student's strokes,
the academy and USTA balls. Actually seems that at least half of his comments
are directed towards ridicule of how others teach. That is fine, but just not
what is claimed about him.
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
His strength, Direct from him

Asked to......tell me the two or three secrets of how you do it.

RL: It’s the repetition. It’s the ability to make them hit balls that they don’t think they can hit. It’s the work ethic. Since I have a great work ethic, you get the same ethic out of them. It’s a process of several years, molding the person. Of course with somebody like Maria, Tracy or Pete, they have a championship quality within. But you have to give them the tools and the confidence that all their qualities will work. By having Maria hit her forehand over and over again, she’s able to handle it because she’s seen hundreds of thousands of balls come to her at 100 miles per hour.
----------------------
I'm very inclined to agree with the above after years of reading about him and
looking at his work.
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
What he expected w/ Federer's Career

IT: What about Federer? Will he have a Sampras-like career?

RL: But what was great about Pete, was once he became no. 1, he always felt like he was going to win. When Federer plays, I’m always worried that he’s going to disappoint.
 
L

Lovingit007

New User
5263 said:
Here is some vid of one of the all time famous coaches in the US.
2010 video it appears and you can look to see how modern you find the form.
He talks of working to hit more of "his" type Fhs and less of the USTA and Academy
Fhs. Shows the RL Fh being about 1.5' over the net saying it uses less topspin
as well. His words mention how the USTA and Academy balls use more spin.
I don't see any mention of where on the court to use his low clearance, lower spin
shot, but he is working the kid fully back at the BL area and talks of using
his shots to put the ball away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfcGkC83oY

One uninformed poster in another thread says he doesn't speak poorly of other
coaches etc...but here he has the parents laughing at Braden's student's strokes,
the academy and USTA balls. Actually seems that at least half of his comments
are directed towards ridicule of how others teach. That is fine, but just not
what is claimed about him.
Click to expand...
Really you spend sooooooo much time trying to say RL is no better a coach than any Tom dick and Harry. But Everyone knows what RL has contributed and it is no gimmick..
 
S

sundaypunch

Hall of Fame
Lovingit007 said:
Really you spend sooooooo much time trying to say RL is no better a coach than any Tom dick and Harry. But Everyone knows what RL has contributed and it is no gimmick..
Click to expand...

It would seem that he was more relevant in an earlier era. The "Lansdorp shot" with 1-foot of net clearance has all but disappeared as a winning style of play.
 
L

Lovingit007

New User
sundaypunch said:
It would seem that he was more relevant in an earlier era. The "Lansdorp shot" with 1-foot of net clearance has all but disappeared as a winning style of play.
Click to expand...

No one is relevant across multiple generations.. But what RL contributed accounts for around 25 grand slams and many more ATP/wta titles. That alone can withstand the onslaught of nay Sayers for years n years to come. Come guys this guy stands alone and feeds ball after ball, moulds players metally and produces multiple GS champs and how can one say he is no better...
 
F

FrisbeeFool

Rookie
5263 just feels insecure because his hero, the person he's built to be this mythic religious figure, Oscar Wegner, can't point to more success stories of top level players he developed. So 5263 denigrates other coaches and attempts to minimize their accomplishments. It's sad.

I get that he wants to prosthelytize and spread the good word about mtm, but why bring other coaches into it? His whole selling pitch for mtm is built around denigrating "traditional" coaches. Why not just talk about whatever his mtm tips may be, without vilifying other coaches.

Lansdorp's accomplishments speak for themselves. He's a legend.
 
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5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
Lovingit007 said:
Really you spend sooooooo much time trying to say RL is no better a coach than any Tom dick and Harry. But Everyone knows what RL has contributed and it is no gimmick..
Click to expand...

You have your opinion of course, but IMO you completely miss the point.
Interesting how his fans can't take any balanced comments. It needs to be all
praise?

Imo it is important to study to compare and contrast where his work has been
most useful. I post about him because of his contributions to US tennis and a
respect for what he does best. Lots of folks teach strokes in various ways, but
I don't see too many who "train" players with the discipline that RL did and help
them to see what they are capable with work and belief.
You trying to attack me for my perspective and opinions is sort of silly and I spend very little time on RL these days. :)
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
FrisbeeFool said:
5263 just feels insecure because Oscar Wegner, can't point to more success stories of top level players he developed. So 5263 denigrates other coaches and attempts to minimize their accomplishments. It's sad.

I get that he wants to prosthelytize and spread the good word about mtm, but why bring other coaches into it?
Click to expand...

First off Oscar can point to many success stories, but don't know why you always
want to discuss MTM.

Second, RL is the king of talking about other methods and instruction in a negative
light.
Third, the main point here is to point the focus on the things RL did well and
where he excelled, so just relax a bit :)

and yes, some mention of where posters have provided misinfo on him, like about the
method/system thing. There is a comment attributed to him, Robert Lansdorp:
'My System Makes Them Great'
which contradicts the quote..."while they developed champions they did not call it a system
or method."
 
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F

FrisbeeFool

Rookie
5263 your gimmickry might fool people on an internet forum. In the real world of tennis no one cares about who is being labeled traditional or modern. They care about who is getting results.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Lovingit007 said:
Really you spend sooooooo much time trying to say RL is no better a coach than any Tom dick and Harry. But Everyone knows what RL has contributed and it is no gimmick..
Click to expand...

And that is why he doesn't start a thread claiming to present a balanced view of some coach who does not post here and cannot defend himself. People who achieve things do not need to resort to tactics like that.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
sundaypunch said:
Yes, he is a legend with a résumé that speaks for itself. That has nothing to do with the style of play that he advocates currently being out of favor.
Click to expand...

And correspondingly today's pros are being coached by others. Times change and nothing is forever. What counts is what someone did when they were active.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
FrisbeeFool said:
The real life coaches are too busy out coaching to worry about who is or isn't in favor on an online forum.
Click to expand...

Especially when the other coach has never posted here and cannot be expected to respond. It is a very low-brow tactic usually associated with politicians.
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
sureshs said:
Especially when the other coach has never posted here and cannot be expected to respond. It is a very low-brow tactic usually associated with politicians.
Click to expand...

This has got the be the FUNNIEST post ever on this forum, lol !

You 2 guys and a couple others have your fun and jokes at the expense of
one of the nicest coaches out there, insulting him in every way you can dream
up with mis-info and innuendo, then make a comment like above,lol.
Don't you get tired of discussing Oscar all the time??

Why not spend some discussion on one of the greatest US coaches in our tennis
history? What is the problem having a thread about the various aspects of
RL's coaching. Vic, Nick, Macci...etc...we don't expect to hear from any of them,
and they are all good for our discussions. Why can't RL be discussed?
I'm not nasty about what Imo are his weaknesses like you guys are with your
silly comments about sweet spot and counting on Oscar.
Even you must admit that :)
I also give him tons of credit and like to look to see where he had such a great
impact, since I'm convinced it was not about stroke technique.
 
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5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
we clearly have a couple of guys great at dishing it out, but very
weak on taking their own medicine, lol.
And in this case, it's nowhere bad like their antics :)
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
From Robert's page

Part of his Philosophy & where imo he really excelled-

Repetition is crucial. Hitting the same ball over and over. It does not happen much in this country. It is all groups, to make more money, and that is the only reason, and playing points. Does not do it. Besides getting one on one coaching, kids should play matches. Two out of three. But they need the one on one coaching and repetition. When you have a lot of repetition you will need to develop muscle memory. It becomes automatic. You don't have to think about it. It will be the same every time. Discipline- You need discipline. Either discipline yourself, which is difficult when you are young, or have someone like me discipline you. It is more difficult for the parents and it many times ends up in a separation when the kids get older and don't take it anymore. I don't have that problem and never had it with my students. Without discipline you will never make it. Not in tennis and not in the regular work force.
 
WildVolley

WildVolley

Legend
Lansdorp, like most other coaches, has been influenced by the modern equipment and heavy topspin game, but it is definitely correct to say that he still advocates a flatter ball than some of the other professionals.

Nadal has proven there's a role for the heavy topspin ball even on the grass and hard courts, but sometimes the high net clearance ball at the pro level is over-hyped on these boards. There's a lot of net skimming hard topspin balls being hit by the pros, especially on the hard courts. Whenever I've watched Nadal practice at Indian Wells, he is always blasting low and fast, and mostly doing his across the shoulder finish. So even Nadal believes in a finishing shot that doesn't have a lot of net clearance.

I find Federer a more interesting player because of his great variety. He can really up the topspin, but he can also rip a net skimming winner.

In any case, I don't think the Lansdorp would try to take credit with the heavy topspin game. Years ago when I talked with him at IW, he said at the time he really liked Murray's game.
 
J

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Actually, that article Robert wrote for Tennisplayer on the finishes is the best overall explanation anywhere of the modern forehand, if I do say so myself.

Robert has a feel for what it takes to win now, just as he did when he developed Pete.

Nadal and some of the other elite grinders may hit balls 3 or 6 feet over the net and that's one option. Nadal is a great, great champion. But not too many players will ever have the wheels or the tenacity of Nadal. And it's hard to believe his injuries aren't related to the toll of the heavy spin defensive style.

The trajectories hit by Federer and Djokovic and DelPotro, however, are probably half that on a high percentage of balls. Lasers that resemble Agassi and Sampras forehands. And played from similar, close in positions.

BTW this whole thing with 5263 bashing Robert got started about 3 years ago on the Tennisplayer boards when 5263 made some similar insulting, passive aggressive comments about Robert. Robert shredded him and 5263 has been trying for revenge ever since.

Everyone sees that 5263 started this thread because of F Fool's brilliant satiric thread. That's obvious from his posts above. It has nothing to do with his desire to show "balance."

BTW I wonder who complained to get that one nuked? Any speculations?
 
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L

Lovingit007

New User
It takes 2seconds for a 2yr old to smell from 2miles that 5263 has an agenda against the legend proven track record multi GS champ producing coach Robert Landsdorp.

Anyone trying to defend RL against 5263 is like trying to wake up a guy who is pretending to sleep.

The world has already endorsed RL,s legendary work.
 
C

chico9166

Guest
5263 said:
Here is some vid of one of the all time famous coaches in the US.
2010 video it appears and you can look to see how modern you find the form.
He talks of working to hit more of "his" type Fhs and less of the USTA and Academy
Fhs. Shows the RL Fh being about 1.5' over the net saying it uses less topspin
as well. His words mention how the USTA and Academy balls use more spin.
I don't see any mention of where on the court to use his low clearance, lower spin
shot, but he is working the kid fully back at the BL area and talks of using
his shots to put the ball away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfcGkC83oY

One uninformed poster in another thread says he doesn't speak poorly of other
coaches etc...but here he has the parents laughing at Braden's student's strokes,
the academy and USTA balls. Actually seems that at least half of his comments
are directed towards ridicule of how others teach. That is fine, but just not
what is claimed about him.
Click to expand...
Luckily, there is a video to contradict your claims.....All RL is doing is showing the kid how to send the ball out on different trajectories and spin rates....something most good coaches do at very young age with talented plalyers..In fact he mentions (you obviosly had the sound muted) that there is a time and place for academy balls. The emphasis here is on variety and showing the young man tennis in a situational sense...again good coaching...

Btw, the kids forehand is much more "modern looking" than what you MTM' ers teach, with its full arching/rainbow to a low finish look. That "find it, feel it, and finish over the shoulder is sooooo old school.

Other than your accurate assesment of RL's demand for excellence, (as a cornerstone to his students immense success) this has been an epic fail, and your transparent agenda obvious.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
5263 said:
This has got the be the FUNNIEST post ever on this forum, lol !

You 2 guys and a couple others have your fun and jokes at the expense of
one of the nicest coaches out there, insulting him in every way you can dream
up with mis-info and innuendo, then make a comment like above,lol.
Don't you get tired of discussing Oscar all the time??
Click to expand...

Oscar is a a member of this board, has posted extensively, and has/had minions who create threads for him all the time. It is not my fault that the threads get deleted by the mods. Lansdorp on the other hand has never posted here, so your comparison is ridiculous.
 
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S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
JohnYandell said:
BTW this whole thing with 5263 bashing Robert got started about 3 years ago on the Tennisplayer boards when 5263 made some similar insulting, passive aggressive comments about Robert. Robert shredded him and 5263 has been trying for revenge ever since.
Click to expand...

Fascinating. It seems he still can't let go of it. Why is that? Why would someone who nobody knows about have this kind of hatred towards a proven authority in his field that he constantly needs to criticize him and even create such threads about him? Is it some kind of cult behavior?
 
treblings

treblings

Hall of Fame
JohnYandell said:
Everyone sees that 5263 started this thread because of F Fool's brilliant satiric thread. That's obvious from his posts above. It has nothing to do with his desire to show "balance."

BTW I wonder who complained to get that one nuked? Any speculations?
Click to expand...

do threads only get deleted once someone complains?
 
treblings

treblings

Hall of Fame
oh, and btw, i would have really welcomed a thread about Robert Lansdorp and why he was/is so tremendously successful. his strengths and weaknesses.
with the way this thread goes it´s probably only a matter of time before it gets deleted
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
JohnYandell said:
BTW this whole thing with 5263 bashing Robert got started about 3 years ago on the Tennisplayer boards when 5263 made some similar insulting, passive aggressive comments about Robert.
Click to expand...

hahaha, yes passive aggressive, lol, which is code for discussed RL's claims
without high praise in every regard. Funny how those who have hero's like JY here with RL
are the very one's who accuse others of their tendencies. I have no problem
with discussing Oscar's strengths and weaknesses and am fine with all but the
ugly attacks on here, but several can't even discuss RL with any objectivity.
Only a homer like JY would think RL shredded anyone other than the little kids
he lords over. Much like JY, he is quickly reduced to personal attacks.

I on the other hand just maintain a balanced approach to it and feel RL is worth
study and discussion despite what are obvious shortcomings technique wise
to anyone but the most serious homer. His other contributions are exceptional
and quite possibly what we should strive to learn from RL imo.
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
treblings said:
oh, and btw, i would have really welcomed a thread about Robert Lansdorp and why he was/is so tremendously successful. his strengths and weaknesses.
with the way this thread goes it´s probably only a matter of time before it gets deleted
Click to expand...

Then you will have to start that thread, because if I make any comment on RL,
his followers will claim it is due to their poor treatment of MTM.
One is not really related to the other much, other than RL tends towards the
traditional side and Oscar take a more modern approach. Both have done
excellent things in tennis and both have short comings I expect.
 
L

Lovingit007

New User
5263 said:
Then you will have to start that thread, because if I make any comment on RL,
his followers will claim it is due to their poor treatment of MTM.
One is not really related to the other much, other than RL tends towards the
traditional side and Oscar take a more modern approach. Both have done
excellent things in tennis and both have short comings I expect.
Click to expand...

why do you want to tag RL as traditional and Oscar as modern? RL has around 25 Grand Slams to his credit + ATP/WTA titles. how many Oscar has to his credits? if non then RL is the most modern coach in the history right?
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
Lovingit007 said:
why do you want to tag RL as traditional and Oscar as modern? RL has around 25 Grand Slams to his credit + ATP/WTA titles. how many Oscar has to his credits? if non then RL is the most modern coach in the history right?
Click to expand...

I know it's tough for you to get things straight, but Oscar's focus has been
working with coaches and RL's has been working with developing Jrs.
Last I looked, most coaches don't go on to play Majors.
If you want to make ridiculous comparisons of apples to oranges...how many
books has RL written and how many has Oscar written??
Doesn't prove a thing, but it's same thing you are doing with your comments.

I know this will go right over most of the haters heads but I'm not saying that
because it matters, but to point out that it is quite silly to compare things
that are unrelated.

Now what does make sense is how many players win majors playing modern vs
traditional? In the last 10 yrs? How many traditional players have done well
without a top 3 in the world serve to lean on to cover for avg and below
strokes?
 
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5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
chico9166 said:
Luckily, there is a video to contradict your claims.....All RL is doing is showing the kid how to send the ball out on different trajectories and spin rates....something most good coaches do at very young age with talented plalyers..In fact he mentions (you obviosly had the sound muted) that there is a time and place for academy balls. The emphasis here is on variety and showing the young man tennis in a situational sense...
Click to expand...

Interesting take you have on his comments. I mostly hear him trying to get
the kid to stop using good net clearance and to lower his shots....yes,
admitting there is a time for higher clearance while making fun of it and getting
laughs about it.
He also says the kid needs to hit more of his low drives and has them work that
from the BL.
Fine if you agree... I just don't see that working over the last decade unless
you watch the WTA. RL does see to do better with the ladies game it seems.
 
L

Lovingit007

New User
so how many of Oscar coached Coaches have gone on to coach GS champs? what ever way you twist the truth, the fundamental question is still un-answered or the truth is no matter how you twist it RL has produced Gs champs and Oscar has none right?
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
Lovingit007 said:
so how many of Oscar coached Coaches have gone on to coach GS champs? what ever way you twist the truth, the fundamental question is still un-answered or the truth is no matter how you twist it RL has produced Gs champs and Oscar has none right?
Click to expand...

Really makes no difference what I say...You don't intend to acknowledge Oscar's
influence. Why do you ask? So you can say, "no he didn't"?

He imo has a big influence on many coaches and players.

Hey, but I'm not the one pitting these coaches against each other. That's you
guys thing. I'm on here to share what instruction and tips can help players on
here...some from RL and some from Oscar, along with some from me and others.
 
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J

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Let's see it's apples and oranges and you can't worry about Grand Slam winners or even pro players in evaluating coaches--this is because Oscar works with coaches.

Yet the mtm websites claims associations with virtually every multiple Grand Slam winner in the last 25 years--and a lot more tour players as well.

Meanwhile traditional coaches have failed to win Grand Slam titles in the recent past and that is an indictment of them.

No wonder we all have trouble keeping it straight.
 
J

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Loving,

Correct you are--and the funny thing if you look at the article 5263 posted, Lansdorp's understanding of the modern forehand is far more modern than what is in Oscar's videos.
 
L

Lovingit007

New User
5263 said:
Really makes no difference what I say...You don't intend to acknowledge Oscar's
influence. Why do you ask? So you can say, "no he didn't"?

He imo has a big influence on many coaches and players.
Click to expand...

I very well understand Oscar's influence. but somehow attributing his influence on the current play and success of tour players is unfair to the coaching/player community. because there is no way you can quantify objectively the influence.
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
JohnYandell said:
Yet the mtm websites claims associations with virtually every multiple Grand Slam winner in the last 25 years--and a lot more tour players as well.
Click to expand...

So you want to count that?

Then I guess Oscar has more by your count, but since
he didn't do the same type development with most of them like RL did,
I didn't count that as apples to apples...but if that is how you see it?

In my view they have a very different focus in their work.
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
Lovingit007 said:
I very well understand Oscar's influence. but somehow attributing his influence on the current play and success of tour players is unfair to the coaching/player community. because there is no way you can quantify objectively the influence.
Click to expand...
I don't see how it's unfair if you understand that
you can't quantify it, but draw a different conclusion.
no big deal.
I also think it is tough to quantify RL's works with Pete technique wise, since
he didn't agree with him going to the 1 hander, didn't teach him the serve or
teach him his famous running Fh.

I always seek to learn more and give credit about RL's work ethic training approach,
which seems to be his main asset. If I had an issue with him or an agenda,
that would be easy to overlook since none of the homers seem to think it is
important.
 
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L

Lovingit007

New User
JohnYandell said:
Loving,

Correct you are--and the funny thing if you look at the article 5263 posted, Lansdorp's understanding of the modern forehand is far more modern than what is in Oscar's videos.
Click to expand...

John, see how 5263 is twisting the facts. when you talk about GS champs it is apples to oranges - cannot compare, but as a coach RL is traditional and Oscar is modern that is apples to apples.. but then RL works with players but Oscar works with Coaches.. cannot compare.

tennis as a sport changes everyday and both coach and player has to adapt everyday and those who adapt produce champions.
somehow saying Oscar invented this Modern game way back in 1970's is outrageous.

where as RL and other coaches works their butt of working individually with players to make them GS champs -- oh you cannot compare that...
 
5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
JohnYandell said:
Loving,

Correct you are--and the funny thing if you look at the article 5263 posted, Lansdorp's understanding of the modern forehand is far more modern than what is in Oscar's videos.
Click to expand...

Now this is twisting, lol.

JY is not saying RL is modern or showing understanding modern well, but just
saying he is better than Oscar, who JY seems to think gets little or nothing
correct. Is that high Praise??
yes, he's your twister :)
 
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5263

5263

G.O.A.T.
Lovingit007 said:
somehow saying Oscar invented this Modern game way back in 1970's is outrageous.
.
Click to expand...

Oh don't they live & die by their misinformation??

Not invented Modern game, but started one of the first Instructional Methods
based on what is now called the modern game; a term that was coined related
to this instructional method.

This the level of info in the quote that you are dealing with from the anti MTM
crowd. Excellent example of how they operate or worse, how they actually think.
Are they twisting info or just don't understand what they talk about?
 
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