The birth of the great Federer

smoledman · Nov 28, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_dgHOVPy9g&feature=related

No doubt people point to this match as THE one where the dominant "might Fed" legend begins.

joeri888 · Nov 28, 2012

Such different player from today. That Federer hit winners from 5 feet behind the baseline without painting the lines. Strokes were so much harder. He compensates with mental strength, tactic skills and a beter serve, but still.. Wow

smoledman · Nov 28, 2012

His trunk rotation was insane back then.

The Bawss · Nov 28, 2012

His game was too sick. Everything was there. But you can still count on some people to claim the Federer of now is better than peak Federer.

Candide · Nov 28, 2012

Poetry in motion. He uses much more variation now as well in order to draw errors whereas at that point he was a man in a hurry it seemed. Ruthless and unrelenting and powerful. What we have now is a guy who was so far ahead of the field that he can still dominate with what is essentially his B game.

kOaMaster · Nov 28, 2012

wow, the pace on his backhand, amazing. hardly ever saw federer hitting so many backhand winners and hitting the backhand so hard.

although I saw all those matches live back in 2003, I couldn't remember how it looked. great video quality too.

sbengte · Nov 28, 2012

The Bawss said:
His game was too sick. Everything was there. But you can still count on some people to claim the Federer of now is better than peak Federer.

Those people weren't born in 2003 , so you can't blame them, can you ?

Crisp · Nov 28, 2012

joeri888 said:
Such different player from today. That Federer hit winners from 5 feet behind the baseline without painting the lines. Strokes were so much harder. He compensates with mental strength, tactic skills and a beter serve, but still.. Wow

Don't forget that the courts were much faster then also. Has to come into it.

Rozroz · Nov 28, 2012

and people say that Fed is better TODAY... yea, right.

Bobby Jr · Nov 28, 2012

Crisp said:
Don't forget that the courts were much faster then also. Has to come into it.

Ha ha... completely. 75% of the winners in that video wouldn't be close to winners nowdays.

The very first point is a perfect example - that forehand winner Federer hit wouldn't be a winner against any top player now - for many it wouldn't even be a struggle to get to - it isn't even beyond the doubles line when it crosses the baseline. The speed of that court flatters both of them massively in terms of the amount of winners hit.

That said, Federer was a winner hitting machine in his prime (2003 was pre-prime really in terms of hit playing ability). You just can't play like that anymore on the vast majority of courts.

Deleted member 307496 · Nov 28, 2012

Beautiful ball striking from Federer.

Deleted member 3771 · Nov 28, 2012

Agassi's movement in this match at 33 was not pretty.He was moving like a 60 year old, the round robin 3 setter that Fed won in the 3rd set breaker must have taken everything out of the old man.

Razoredge · Nov 28, 2012

Rozroz said:
and people say that Fed is better TODAY... yea, right.

LOL

Put prime Federer on a fast hard court with prime Djokovic and watch as Djokovic gets his ass kicked.

Rozroz · Nov 28, 2012

Razoredge said:
LOL

Put prime Federer on a fast hard court with prime Djokovic and watch as Djokovic gets his ass kicked.

question is, if we put bloomer Fed on today's slowest court, how would he manage.

Mike Sams · Nov 28, 2012

Nalbandian was giving Federer major fits at this time.

Mainad · Nov 28, 2012

When I read the thread title, I thought at first we were going to be treated to some hospital video footage taken by Roger's dad just over 31 years ago! :lol:

2003 was Roger's break-out year. First Slam (Wimbledon) rounded off at year end with his first Masters Cup title and he had yet to hit his prime!

IMO he looks remarkably similar to the way he is today except for his more youthful, fresh-faced appearance and the greasy hair pulled back into a pony-tail. Even his post-match comments sound remarkably familiar!

Towser83 · Nov 28, 2012

great video, never actually saw this match when it happened.

joeri888 · Nov 28, 2012

Rozroz said:
question is, if we put bloomer Fed on today's slowest court, how would he manage.

He might get a little frustrated, but his strokes still were a lot harder and more consistent then they are today.

Alchemy-Z · Nov 28, 2012

Man I miss Agassi crushing the ball

Gonzo_style · Nov 28, 2012

Razoredge said:
LOL

Put prime Federer on a fast hard court with prime Djokovic and watch as Djokovic gets his ass kicked.

You are a true expert.

Huanita99 · Nov 28, 2012

Razoredge said:
LOL

Put prime Federer on a fast hard court with prime Djokovic and watch as Djokovic gets his ass kicked.

Rubish. 20 yo Novak played the final of USO in 2007. Fed did win, but a young Djokovic completely chocked that match. probably the biggest choke of his career. Novak beat him in Montreal that year btw.

nice video btw. Prime Fed was a much better player than this 2012 Fed, period.

kalyan4fedever · Nov 28, 2012

nly question where did that backhand go, now it is 80% slices.

joeri888 · Nov 28, 2012

kalyan4fedever said:
nly question where did that backhand go, now it is 80% slices.

Uhm. No. It should be way more slices. Especially versus guys like Berdych and Del Potro, who he constantly tries to outhit. He sliced a lot more in 2008-2011 than he does now imo.

However, imo his slice also declined. He used to be able to even on the full stretch really KNIFE that slice.

Razoredge · Nov 28, 2012

joeri888 said:
Uhm. No. It should be way more slices. Especially versus guys like Berdych and Del Potro, who he constantly tries to outhit. He sliced a lot more in 2008-2011 than he does now imo.

However, imo his slice also declined. He used to be able to even on the full stretch really KNIFE that slice.

Joke post? He knifed a slice past Berdych on the stretch at the USO this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEa_hOvk-4

nikdom · Nov 28, 2012

Even though I'd been following Roger since around 2002, to me his GOAT arrival was on a big stage. I watched this match live and today it might seem like a foregone conclusion, but back then, going into the final, nothing was a foregone conclusion. Hewitt strode into the 2004 USO final not losing a single set to anyone, and then RF did this to a GS champion, in a GS final -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKETvVqxTmk

To me, this was the GOAT performance at that point. I'd never seen someone destroy a fellow GS champion in the finals of a slam like this. My jaw remained dropped all through set 1. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to find another example of a more dominant first set displaying such aggressive, first-strike tennis.

nikdom · Nov 28, 2012

^^ Just listen to the commentators in this Sky broadcast from Europe

"It may not be much of a contest right now, but it's an exhibition in greatness.."

"The last time someone lost the first set 6-0 in a slam final must have happened in the early 1900s, this kind of thing just doesn't happen..."

smoledman · Nov 28, 2012

Federer in 2004 is like Apple Inc now. A totally dominating force achieving things never before thought possible.

nikdom · Nov 28, 2012

smoledman said:
Federer in 2004 is like Apple Inc now. A totally dominating force achieving things never before thought possible.

To be fair, even Nadal when he really arrived on the big stage was a spectacle to watch. In a different way of course.

Where Roger is an example of a classic game that can be brutally effective, Nadal's was just pure explosive athleticism. I haven't watched Borg much and a lot of people say he was the greater clay courter, but Nadal's rpm's were a sight to behold.

tennisfreak73 · Nov 28, 2012

Razoredge said:
LOL

Put prime Federer on a fast hard court with prime Djokovic and watch as Djokovic gets his ass kicked.

In defense of Novak and i'm no Djokovic fan, but we really don't know when his peak will be. In my opinion he's still getting better and has the potential to be one of the greatest, but only time will tell. Perhaps we saw his peak in 2011, but we really need a few more years to see how he pans out. I will agree that Fed, back in the day, was a true bad ass!

tricky · Nov 28, 2012

Interesting thing is that Federer's FH had slightly different form back then (changed around mid-2006, I think.) As smoeldman mentioned, he had bigger trunk rotation and he had more of a loop. The pace he was generating was close to Safin's.

Bobby Jr · Nov 28, 2012

Razoredge said:
Put prime Federer on a fast hard court with prime Djokovic and watch as Djokovic gets his ass kicked.

I'll correct that for you: put current Federer on a fast hard court and watch Djokovic get his ass kicked also.

Bobby Jr · Nov 28, 2012

tricky said:
Interesting thing is that Federer's FH had slightly different form back then (changed around mid-2006, I think.) As smoeldman mentioned, he had bigger trunk rotation and he had more of a loop. The pace he was generating was close to Safin's.

Yep. And he also hit it a little later than he came to - a little more alongside his body and, as you say, with a bigger loop.

His serve has changed significantly since then also - the stand isn't even quite the same and the potency of his second serve nowdays is miles, miles higher than back then. No doubt it's a result of the changing conditions - courts and opponents.

forzamilan90 · Nov 28, 2012

Prime Federer (and this is pre-prime technically) was the most fluid, accurate, free swinging and beautiful player to watch, I mean he was ridiculous. Nothing compares to that.

hoodjem · Nov 28, 2012

Candide said:
What we have now is a guy who was so far ahead of the field that he can still dominate with what is essentially his B game.

Gotta love that B game.

mattennis · Nov 28, 2012

Please, please, we need these faster courts/balls on Tour again. Seriously, I can not understand why some people would prefer to see the ultra slow conditions of today better than this so much beautiful type of tennis like this one of Federer-Agassi 2003 Masters Cup.

For me it is like night and day. Almost with every shot they're trying to finish the point.

The very sad thing is that (like someone said before) 80% or 90% of these amazing winners (of this match) would not be winners on today ultra slow courts (with todays slow balls). Djokovic, Nadal and Murray would be getting them back easily MOSTLY because of the ultra slow conditions of today.

It is true that Agassi at that stage of his career was extremely slow and that Djokovic, Murray and Nadal are faster and better movers than almost anyone ever, but on faster courts (and with faster balls) they would NOT get to all those shots they DO GET to on todays slow conditions.

I don't get why some people don't like this type of tennis (short points, faster tennis, A LOT of winners of all kinds, rewarding the attacker)

Razoredge · Nov 28, 2012

mattennis said:
Please, please, we need these faster courts/balls on Tour again. Seriously, I can not understand why some people would prefer to see the ultra slow conditions of today better than this so much beautiful type of tennis like this one of Federer-Agassi 2003 Masters Cup.

For me it is like night and day. Almost with every shot they're trying to finish the point.

The very sad thing is that (like someone said before) 80% or 90% of these amazing winners (of this match) would not be winners on today ultra slow courts (with todays slow balls). Djokovic, Nadal and Murray would be getting them back easily MOSTLY because of the ultra slow conditions of today.

It is true that Agassi at that stage of his career was extremely slow and that Djokovic, Murray and Nadal are faster and better movers than almost anyone ever, but on faster courts (and with faster balls) they would NOT get to all those shots they DO GET to on todays slow conditions.

I don't get why some people don't like this type of tennis (short points, faster tennis, A LOT of winners of all kinds, rewarding the attacker)

People don't mind that type of tennis, what they mind is the big serving tennis that was all over the place in the 90s and what Raonic/Isner/etc are doing.

Crowds were complaining about the serve battles and the ATP took note.

monfed · Nov 28, 2012

For me, Fed of 2005 was playing tennis from another planet. I mean his movement was out of this world. The guy's blessed by the gods to just play tennis, what else can be said about this wonderful genius that we're all so blessed to watch?

TheCheese · Nov 28, 2012

It'd be really interesting to see how Federer today would compare to that if they were given the same fast courts.

JamieSafe · Nov 28, 2012

Agassi was ****ting his pants the whole time

Feather · Nov 28, 2012

mattennis said:
Please, please, we need these faster courts/balls on Tour again. Seriously, I can not understand why some people would prefer to see the ultra slow conditions of today better than this so much beautiful type of tennis like this one of Federer-Agassi 2003 Masters Cup.

For me it is like night and day. Almost with every shot they're trying to finish the point.

The very sad thing is that (like someone said before) 80% or 90% of these amazing winners (of this match) would not be winners on today ultra slow courts (with todays slow balls). Djokovic, Nadal and Murray would be getting them back easily MOSTLY because of the ultra slow conditions of today.

It is true that Agassi at that stage of his career was extremely slow and that Djokovic, Murray and Nadal are faster and better movers than almost anyone ever, but on faster courts (and with faster balls) they would NOT get to all those shots they DO GET to on todays slow conditions.

I don't get why some people don't like this type of tennis (short points, faster tennis, A LOT of winners of all kinds, rewarding the attacker)

Exactly, we need fast court now. It's really sad that almost all courts are pathetically slow.

Feather · Nov 28, 2012

Bobby Jr said:
I'll correct that for you: put current Federer on a fast hard court and watch Djokovic get his ass kicked also.

Very well said!

Cincinati 2012

Pete was lucky that he had a faster US open to reach finals in his late career but sadly Roger has to work hard on those slow courts against awesome defenders. It's highly unfair when you take all weapons of a player and pit them against the best. The should be a balance somewhere

Netspirit · Nov 28, 2012

It must have been easy to be Federer's fan in 2003.

kOaMaster · Nov 29, 2012

Netspirit said:
It must have been easy to be Federer's fan in 2003.

true (not only in 2003). perhaps a reason there are still so many.

Deleted member 307496 · Nov 29, 2012

kOaMaster said:
true (not only in 2003). perhaps a reason there are still so many.

Federer has been long touted as a talented player, even back as far as 2000/1999.

joeri888 · Nov 29, 2012

Razoredge said:
Joke post? He knifed a slice past Berdych on the stretch at the USO this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEa_hOvk-4

Yes. That's a beauty. But I don't see him do that as often as in 2006-2007.

VPhuc tennis fan · Nov 29, 2012

Something worth reading at Bleacher Report

Here's the link of what I read on Bleacher Report this morning:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...2-season-makes-weak-era-argument-a-moot-point
Many of us laughed at the quality of articles printed on Bleacher Report, but I guess once in a while something pops up that's worth reading. The OP states the birth of the great Fed, and many of us, fans or even haters of Fed will very likely miss Fed once he decides to retire. The current crop of players offers no one with such beautiful, effortless (so it seems) style of tennis.
Cheers.

Mainad · Nov 29, 2012

Good article. I couldn't find anything to disagree with!

Huanita99 · Nov 29, 2012

Feather said:
Very well said!

Cincinati 2012

Pete was lucky that he had a faster US open to reach finals in his late career but sadly Roger has to work hard on those slow courts against awesome defenders. It's highly unfair when you take all weapons of a player and pit them against the best. The should be a balance somewhere

whatever, Dubai has the fastest HC courts on the ATP tour. Djokovic spanked Fed there.

Federer20042006 · Nov 29, 2012

Federer on the fast Dubai court still lost badly to Djokovic last year.

He's clearly not what he used to be.

I think Australian Open 2007 was when something first changed to my eyes, despite his dominance in that tournament. He didn't have the same big, point-ending blast from the forehand that he had in 2006, and his movement wasn't quite as explosive/he wasn't as flexible.

Look at the back-to-back losses to Canas and the loss to Volandri, and I think there's ample evidence he was legitimately starting to slip a little in early 2007, and it's not just slowed courts/tougher competition.

SwankPeRFection · Nov 29, 2012

Fed definitely has more experience now, but back then he was much stronger physically. I think the major difference back then was that he was much broader in the back and shoulders. That's where all that power came from. The winners he could hit back then almost every other point, he hits maybe 33-45% now. I think after winning so much stuff he's dialed back his physical strength training to go from brute to paladin. That's the best I can explain it. Back then his physical looks were more brawler and now he's more James Bondish. He can still get it done, but it's no longer a complete knockout. Now he has to play smarter... back then it was just whack the ball and watch it become a winner.

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