Orange Bowl 2012

JLyon

Hall of Fame
Townsend is too fat to turn pro. so she is playing orange bowl. good thing, Oranges are not fattening.
shut up idiot, she just turned pro but that would be to hard for you to actually check, although I am sure you're just trying to a clown but you failed.
 

NLBwell

Legend
Glad to hear she's such a nice girl. I really hope she does well. It can be really tough to get weight under control - but it is possible. It is more a mental and emotional issue than physical - and those are more difficult issues to deal with.
Several WTA are significantly overweight (Pavly..., etc.) and can still win on tour. However, I'm hoping Taylor Townsend can become great, to do that she will have to get in shape.
 

NLBwell

Legend
Glad Deiton got into the 3rd round. Beat two guys in the top 200. Looks like only one other American got through that far. Still steadily improving. Couple of years ago he was only in the top couple of hundred in California. He's still a long way off from the top, but he's got two years to be at the top of the juniors and possibly a couple years after that before he completely fills into his body. Maybe he'll top out soon like TCF says, but I don't see anything yet to show that. Right now, the road is still going upward.
 
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Taylor is BEAUTIFUL! Please quit talking bad about her. Your words hurt ME and can you imagine how incredibly hurtful it would be if she ever read them???

Please leave her alone...You're probably just jealous of her but she is one fantastic girl and she deserves all the goodness the world has to give! GO TT---We're ALWAYS pulling for you, girl!! :) You're #1! Dig the lime green "MOVE YOUR FEET" wristband from HIGH-TECH TENNIS! :)

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ga tennis

Hall of Fame
Glad Deiton got into the 3rd round. Beat two guys in the top 200. Looks like only one other American got through that far. Still steadily improving. Couple of years ago he was only in the top couple of hundred in California. He's still a long way off from the top, but he's got two years to be at the top of the juniors and possibly a couple years after that before he completely fills into his body. Maybe he'll top out soon like TCF says, but I don't see anything yet to show that. Right now, the road is still going upward.

I agree. What Deit has done in the last year has been very impressive.
 

tball2day

Semi-Pro
................Couple of years ago he was only in the top couple of hundred in California. He's still a long way off from the top, but he's got two years to be at the top of the juniors and possibly a couple years after that before he completely fills into his body. Maybe he'll top out soon like TCF says, but I don't see anything yet to show that. Right now, the road is still going upward.

If you are still playing juniors at almost 19 years old you are no where near the top of them.

Consistency is key to success which we have not seen by any measure. How about a single tournament win in the last several years. How many have there been in the last 24 months? Any? Each section has kids that win a single good match or two and ride the "legend status" from that right into mediocrity. A match here or there means nothing, play enough and any decent player has those. The ones winning event after event are the ones to watch.
 
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Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
If you are still playing juniors at almost 19 years old you are no where near the top of them.

Consistency is key to success which we have not seen by any measure. How about a single tournament win in the last several years. How many have there been in the last 24 months? Any? Each section has kids that win a single good match or two and ride the "legend status" from that right into mediocrity. A match here or there means nothing, play enough and any decent player has those. The ones winning event after event are the ones to watch.

How old is he? Thought DB was younger, junior in high school, your saying he will be almost 20 when he graduates?
 
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Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
No he is saying the dad says he has "2 more years to play the Herr and OB". That would mean he would be almost 19 and still be playing them. He turns 17 in a few months.

The poster was saying if he is still playing jrs at age 19 these days it would mean he will not be a successful pro.

Got it, I would think it would pretty much be highest level juniors, and Futures from here on out. It's really interesting to see what a journeyman or lower ranked pro can do to a top flight junior. At the Tiburon challenger qualies, Mc Donald, Altamirano, no match.
 

GRANITECHIEF

Hall of Fame
Got it, I would think it would pretty much be highest level juniors, and Futures from here on out. It's really interesting to see what a journeyman or lower ranked pro can do to a top flight junior. At the Tiburon challenger qualies, Mc Donald, Altamirano, no match.

Mackie lost to Greg Jones atp 373 in both Tib and Sac challengers quals, Sac was 4-6 in 3rd. He's also has two futures wins in doubs. He's 0 for 8 reaching main draw in futures quallies. He's showing promise at 17, getting great experience and will be getting ranking points soon.

Alta lost to Thatcher in Tib, was deep in almost every game, but inexperience won out. Also Thatcher (23) is on the upswing regularly winning rounds in futures lately. Alta is 16, 17 in a few days, and is 2 for 4 reaching reaching main draw in futures quallies. Very few guys without atp points are going to beat him these days. Also showing promise and will be getting ranked soon.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
So who is the NEXT American #1 in this batch of boys ? You guys see any young Andy Roddick, Federer or Nadal ?
 

Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
Mackie lost to Greg Jones atp 373 in both Tib and Sac challengers quals, Sac was 4-6 in 3rd. He's also has two futures wins in doubs. He's 0 for 8 reaching main draw in futures quallies. He's showing promise at 17, getting great experience and will be getting ranking points soon.

Alta lost to Thatcher in Tib, was deep in almost every game, but inexperience won out. Also Thatcher (23) is on the upswing regularly winning rounds in futures lately. Alta is 16, 17 in a few days, and is 2 for 4 reaching reaching main draw in futures quallies. Very few guys without atp points are going to beat him these days. Also showing promise and will be getting ranked soon.

Yep, I watched those two matches and Lovedeep also. Not saying they don't have game, just how deep the pool is. That pack of players between 150 to 400 in the world is full of former great junior players. I really liked that Alta/Thatch match awesome points. Always been a fan of Mackie, lucky UCLA.
 

Jen10isFan

New User
Pretty much all the international guys who are going pro route are long gone by 17 these days. The guys left in the 18s OB and Herr are college level players except for about 2 of them who may have some pro potential.

Not sure where you got your facts to make that claim. The physical nature of the game means that very few teenagers are able to do consistently well in challengers, let alone grand slams.

Below is a list of the highest ranked teenagers. Interesting how there are not that many of them - and none of them are even top 200. Also, none of them are a '95 or '96.

Who are the 17 year old players that you are referring to and what are they ranked?



260 Jiri Vesely CZE 7/10/1993
287 Jason Kubler AUS 5/19/1993
322 Taro Daniel JPN 1/27/1993
341 Luke Saville AUS 2/1/1994
342 Roberto Carballes Baena ESP 3/23/1993
368 Suk Young Jeong KOR 4/12/1993
388 Dominic Thiem AUT 9/3/1993
402 Ricardo Rodriguez VEN 4/28/1993
413 Thiago Monteiro BRA 5/31/1994
418 Oliver Golding GBR 9/29/1993
426 Mate Pavic CRO 7/4/1993
438 Bruno Santanna BRA 7/12/1993
448 Juan Ignacio Londero ARG 8/15/1993
453 Adam Pavlasek CZE 10/8/1994
474 Alex Bolt AUS 1/5/1993
477 Joao Pedro Sorgi BRA 10/18/1993
479 Christian Harrison USA 5/29/1994
521 Ji Sung Nam KOR 8/15/1993
 

Tcbtennis

Hall of Fame
I had the opportunity to watch some of Deitman's match today. When I arrived the score was 4-6;1-0 and when I left it was 4-6;6-3;3-1. I was very excited when I arrived and saw his name on the placard that list the names and scores of the current players on court. I also tried to figure out which of the spectators was Brad. I had to leave early so it's nice to learn that he won the match against the #4 seed from Croatia.

I'm not a tennis player or a coach so all my tennis knowledge is what I've learned by watching my kids play. In my opinion, Deitman's has a very nice game. He seems to prefer his backhand, which he hits pretty flat, over his forehand. He has a big serve. Is he pro material? I have no idea but I wish him all the best. I hope that he is enjoying the journey of junior tennis. He is easy to root for because of his cool demeanor on the court. Good job to make it to the quarterfinals of the Orange Bowl as a wild card. That's called taking advantage of the opportunity!
 
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Jen10isFan

New User
Thats not what I said. Did not say they were ranked, did not say they even made the right decision to leave juniors.

What I said, and coaching32years said, is that the last few years the international guys 14-18 have left the juniors and are playing futures. Thats why the OB field is not what it was 10 years ago.

Fair enough. BUT - who are the top '95 players that did not play OB this year and where are they ranked in the Pros? Just curious.

Thanks.
 
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tommyfr

Rookie
I think TCFs claim that many top boys juniors leave ITF jr competition age 14-16 and start on the pro tour that young age, playing Futures/Challengers, is not correct. There are very few of them, and usually they mix it up with futures and Junior tournaments....so they have junior ranking as well.

However, for girls it is more like that, some of the best jump to the pro tour early and leave ITF juniors completely at age 16. Still most of them mix it up and at least play jr GS, but not all.

Girls mature earlier and I think there also are rules on max pro tournaments for certain ages that strengthens this difference.
 
I do not know the answer to that. All I know is I read Zoo Tennis daily. Its seems like once a week I read things like, "15 year old Bob from Russia went to the finals of the Popo Futures" and "16 year old Frank from Norway just won the top pro ITF ".

Coaching32years can give more answers on this one than I can.

Specifically talking Orange Bowl 18s. Back in the day the top 10 seeds would correspond to the top 10 ITF. Now the 3rd seed is like 20th ITF. So obviously the top 10 ITF guys are playing elsewhere.

8 of the top 10 ITF ranked boys are NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The 2 best 18 year old Americans are playing pro and NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The best players from our section never play USTA tournaments. ITF and Futures only. These are the facts. It is the new reality.
 
I think TCFs claim that many top boys juniors leave ITF jr competition age 14-16 and start on the pro tour that young age, playing Futures/Challengers, is not correct. There are very few of them, and usually they mix it up with futures and Junior tournaments....so they have junior ranking as well.

However, for girls it is more like that, some of the best jump to the pro tour early and leave ITF juniors completely at age 16. Still most of them mix it up and at least play jr GS, but not all.

Girls mature earlier and I think there also are rules on max pro tournaments for certain ages that strengthens this difference.

what TCF is saying is that he knows nothing and has always claimed to have all the answers and that if DB showed up to Orange Bowl he would get crushed early and never get 10 miles within the finals and as he chips away he is scrambling to realign his position "the fields week none of the real players showed up ect. " tcf is a disgrace to tennis and the USA and he best thing he can do is head out and go work with lil Roxanne and quit posting , dont forget to put on her red dress tonight !!!
 
8 of the top 10 ITF ranked boys are NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The 2 best 18 year old Americans are playing pro and NOT playing the Orange Bowl. The best players from our section never play USTA tournaments. ITF and Futures only. These are the facts. It is the new reality.

dont forget its on clay
 
dont forget its on clay

Bravo to the 2 Americans in the quarters. You can only beat the players who show up to play. The fact that players skipped the OB does not diminish their accomplishment. I'm sure you will be going to Australia next month. But there's unfinished business in Fla- hope you complete the mission.
 

ChiefAce

Semi-Pro
Way to go Deit!!! Another good win today!!!

A very nice win, but there will always be some excuse as to what this kid can or can't do from the naysayers. Kudos to him for putting in the work necessary to get to this level, and hopefully there will be more success to come.

Considering the other kid (Coric) has done training sessions with Goran Ivanisevic I'd say this is a hell of an accomplishment.
 

NLBwell

Legend
No he is saying the dad says he has "2 more years to play the Herr and OB". That would mean he would be almost 19 and still be playing them. He turns 17 in a few months.

The poster was saying if he is still playing jrs at age 19 these days it would mean he will not be a successful pro.

So, you are saying that guys like Peliwo have no shot?
And Monfils, and Murray?
 
A very nice win, but there will always be some excuse as to what this kid can or can't do from the naysayers. Kudos to him for putting in the work necessary to get to this level, and hopefully there will be more success to come.

Considering the other kid (Coric) has done training sessions with Goran Ivanisevic I'd say this is a hell of an accomplishment.

You will see this kid Borna on the ATP he is very solid knows how to play has great movement , nice strokes and a very good attitude on court.

Chieface this was a solid win this kid was playing a pusher style the day before against a kid and I thought DB was gonna buzzsaw him next thing i know they are trading huge groundies and long rallies the 1st set and Borna took it , DB continued till he made his way through him but this kid was NO joke by any means .
 

kme5150

Rookie
dont forget its on clay

That is so true. Why would 99% of the country who never play on clay go to it?

J Mac, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Connors, Roddick, Ashe, and Sampras all grew up playing on hard courts and the rest of the world was playing on clay.

It is all about exposure why the USA is not dominating in tennis. In Europe and Asia, tennis is still on tv on a regular basis.

It is sad to say but Americans would rather watch a race car painted like a pack of Lifesavers go around in circles for 4 hours than watch tennis. You have to give Nascar credit, they marketed their product perfectly.
 

tennis_ocd

Hall of Fame
J Mac, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Connors, Roddick, Ashe, and Sampras all grew up playing on hard courts and the rest of the world was playing on clay.
Interesting of that list only Courier and Roddick won at the OB. Not sure about the others but believe Agassi, Connors and Ashe played there and lost. Add others such as Becker, Graf, Henin, Seles, Wilander who lost at OB and managed to have pretty successful pro careers. (Note some of these OB loses may have been jrs - haven't been able to find a site with historical draws. It'd be neat to see....)

Then how about the 18 boys recent champs since 2004:
Dominic Thiem, George Morgan, Gianni Mina, Yuki Bhambri, Ricardas Berankis, Petru-Alexandru Luncanu, Robin Roshardt, Timothy Neilly

Any of these winners have a pro future?

Seems to me, even with the women, too much going on, too much change physically and mentally to rely on OB results as a harbinger of future success even a couple years distant.
 

ga tennis

Hall of Fame
Deit has a tough match today against T.Kwiatkowski. If he beats Kwiatkowski the real test will be Quinzi in the semis.
 

ABBtennis

New User
His improvement is very predictable and on the level of all the guys who play at better D-1 programs. To play guys outside the top 10 ITF, those are all college level players.

We know his ceiling because he is an old junior. That means he has had his growth spurt, played solely tennis for 10 plus years, and is approaching 17. So a scout at IMG or other agencies can tell you about where he will peak. They apply the criteria and know which guys are leveling off. His improvement from now on will gradually grind to a halt, just like with 99.9999999% of the players they have scouted the past 25 years.

Could he be an exception? Sure, just like you could win the next powerball.

Pretty much all the international guys who are going pro route are long gone by 17 these days. The guys left in the 18s OB and Herr are college level players except for about 2 of them who may have some pro potential.

So clueless :lol:
 
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tball2day

Semi-Pro
Nope, not good......because his coach has let us down. He promised that he had the plan to turn a guy into the next Nadal. He told us he would show the weak American coaches how to make a Nadal. He was given a player 6'4" and totally dedicated to tennis since age 5.

Nadal was a pro by 15 and we are given an almost 17 year old who can not win the OB or the Herr, let alone be a top 100 pro like Nadal was?

....................)

OB or Eddie Herr? How about any national of any level, or ITF of any level?! I know you come off to some as hard, but you got it spot on. Any decent kid has a great win now and then. Attribute it to one player is just more on that day. But the truly good ones have a consistent showing of good wins that lead to a consistent showing of tournament wins. A single match or even single tournament does not a career make and I am shocked by how many think one day in the life of a junior player makes all the difference. Nope. Keep on keeping on TCF, you got it.

Making people believe if you say things enough it will come true is absurd. I don't mind cheering the kid on, but don't like the misleading going on.
 
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