Your most successful style/ strategy for wins in tennis?

TomT said:

Thanks much for the vids PP. Now I know what you're talking about. Very nice, fluid modern strokes. Especially forehand. Great movement and preparation. Yes, I can definitely learn from this. Whether I would ever be able to hit like you do is doubtful. Ok, pretty much impossible -- but still a good example. You're very strong.

I got the impression from reading some of your posts that you were older than you seem in the vids. How old?

Anyway, yes, I would have to say that your strokes are better than anybody I hit with or have played against, except maybe one or two guys.

A pleasure to watch. Post more vids PP. You're really good and I bet lots of people here can learn by your example and what you have to say about how you play and how you learned it. Thanks.

And of course, my usual solicitation, please, everybody post more vids.

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Thanks for the kind words. I learned from the videos myself. Saw my backhand hitch I was feeling once I slowed the video down. I need to point the buttcap at the ground on the take back before swinging to contact. In shadow swinging, this already feels much more natural.

I agree about equipment as well. I am using a stock Blade 98 with a tight pattern. even though I hit with a lot of spin and conventional wisdom would say to hit with an open pattern, I find that I have much more control with this setup. I also can string at solid tension of 49/52 poly/syn gut. The lighter weight still gives me a lot of spin, but the ball kicks at the opponent more instead of straight up. When you hit an approach that kicks forward, it many times becomes a winner, as opposed to having it kick straight up and hang in the same spot longer.

Power Player said:

Thanks for the kind words. I learned from the videos myself. Saw my backhand hitch I was feeling once I slowed the video down. I need to point the buttcap at the ground on the take back before swinging to contact. In shadow swinging, this already feels much more natural.

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Well your backhand looked very good to me also. Wish I could hit like that. Watched another vid of yours at YouTube ... camera behind Craig. He looks good too, but I like your strokes better. I imagine you guys have some pretty good matches together.

Another question: what grip do you use on your forehand?

Power Player said:

Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

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Nice forehand PP! Picked up some tips for my own forehand..need a bit more PTD, like yours

Power Player said:

Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

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Your starting feed is very stiff.

You may have volleying problems with it. Opponents will break you by putting you on the net.

Power Player said:

Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

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pretty good.
I like how your not lazy on your feet.

Want a good tip that will help you?

You mean besides losing some weight, and staying down on 1hbh slices?

I test my opponent from the first point to figure out how I can get them to hit me short balls. Once I figure this out, I do it for 2-3 sets.

I guess there is the theory side talkiing here, and also the practical application side.....
As an injured, slow, blind, old, weak fart, I cannot ever beat someone who outruns every ball I hit, so I have to hit it better and better, until I beat myself.
Same me, young big hitter, I cannot match power and speed, so have to with better placement and smarter placements, until I beat myself hitting too close to the lines.
Against another 63 year old slow guy, I can hit 60% on my shots, and win most of them, so why try to play at 90%, and beat myself?
In tennis, as in life, you have to analyse, adapt, and perform the shots you need to win, and it's different for different opponent's and situations.

watungga said:

Your starting feed is very stiff.

You may have volleying problems with it. Opponents will break you by putting you on the net.

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Thats a really interesting observation that i agree with. I have never had an opponent really put me at the net though. I get to my approaches well.

Cheetah said:

pretty good.
I like how your not lazy on your feet.

Want a good tip that will help you?

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Sure. I already see that i am letting go of the racquet a little early sometimes and i have fixed that. Fire away with what you got.

I really want to see your strokes. When are you going to post some vid?

LeeD said:

You mean besides losing some weight, and staying down on 1hbh slices?

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My body fat is around 12% right now.. Hw much weight do i need to lose? I am fast around the court, have visible abs and eat well. Basically i will have to drop muscle and for some reason that is not very easy to do.

TomT said:

Well your backhand looked very good to me also. Wish I could hit like that. Watched another vid of yours at YouTube ... camera behind Craig. He looks good too, but I like your strokes better. I imagine you guys have some pretty good matches together.

Another question: what grip do you use on your forehand?

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I use in between a semi western and a western. Kind of vary it between the 2 according to the shot.

If I play anyone around the 3.5 - 4.0 (worked on some 4.5s) I will serve and volley them all day errday. Or bait them to the net where 99% of them feel uncomfortable.

My go too play is to mix up the spins and pace of each shot. When they go for my backhand I like to go CC on backhands with theirs and wait for the opportunity to hit an inside out/in on FH and close in at the net.

Much respect to the s&v game!

i was going to post some vids in the summer but then my business began dying so I decided not to buy a camera. I might buy myself one for the holidays.

Anyway, ... strokes look good. see any area of balance you could improve on?

Yes, backhand gets wonky on the balance.

I watched a Pat Rafter match and then played a 4.5 yesterday. I decided to see what it would be like to kick every serve in and come in after a lot of them. I felt like I was playing speed tennis, just chucking everything at the wall to see what sticks. It was the most fun I have had playing tennis in a long time. I lost 4 and 5 but I think I am going to perfect this.

nice hitting pp, your fh resembles roddick fh me thinks. less stepping in, more open stance, and feel the pull in the waist during trunk rotation more, slightly less arm swing until trunk rotation gains more range of motion. stretch abs and oblique. nice loose arm and hand. good luck.

Power Player said:

Yes, backhand gets wonky on the balance.

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yea true. i only comment on 1hbh's though.
Ok, your fh...

Looks pretty good. You've got all the good elements going on in there. I hope I can explain this in an intelligible manner...

As I was watching your fh I couldn't help but notice something was 'off'. Took me a while to pinpoint but then I figured out that it was the end of your swing on the follow through that looks funny. If a follow through looks funny then that means something else previous to that was the culprit right? You've got this nice setup, some ssc action, good contact, everything looks good and then it sort of dies at the very end.

The issue is the left arm and the effect on balance. I've had this same issue before w/ the same symptoms and a former world class junior gave me this tip and fixed me up. (this guy has beaten berdych when he was 16).

Now I know what you're thinking, "yea whatever. cheetah is gona give me the usual schtick about the left arm that I already know...".
But this is a little different.

I can see that you know to use the left arm but there are a lot of times when your left arm does not pull over and it's left across your chest and you get the arms-crossing thing. Other times the left pulls across but it's not really 'doing anything'. kind of just going along for the ride. These 2 situations affect balance. balance is king.

Your fw is good, setup is good, initial balance is good, swing path and point of contact, extension all good but the left arm is left picking up kinetic scraps or getting in the way. Why is that? The reason is because you're doing it, excuse me here,.. wrong. There is a better way. The way you are doing it does not contribute to the swing and goes against balance during the swing therefore your brain is saying 'wth? i don't like this. why are you forcing me to do this?'

The Fix:
You need to bring the left arm across in a way that maintains balance and symmetry. I'd bet that currently when you think about the pulling the left arm over you are thinking something along the lines of 'pull the left arm in'. So if the left arm was pointing to the side fence parallel to the baseline and you pulled it in it would follow a path roughly parallel to the baseline. Am I right? That's why you get the arms crossed sometimes. it gives up after a certain point and just lays there. So you have your torso's center of mass, a right arm extended out to the right of the body and a left arm just dangling there. Bye bye balance.

What you need to do is instead of pulling the left arm 'in' -- is to think more along the lines of 'pulling it over'. Not a straight pull across but more of a 'pull over and around'. You have to mimic the position of the right arm. You can do this by giving more abduction to your shoulder on your left arm. (more space between the arm and body, elbow extended away from the body)

Look at Fed in this segment in the following vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDJJS3d2N1c&t=6m48s

See how his left arm is in a similar position to the right arm? Notice how natural and balanced and powerful that looks? He has more shoulder abduction in the left shoulder than you. It's the same amount as his right arm, same angle. Left elbow is away from the body.

Notice that all good players have this 'square box' look.
Safin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StVULV2N3l0&t=5s
Roddick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-D32RwsD_w&t=10s
Djoko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq09yHPmKh0
Verdasco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkyL5XF1QO4
Blake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyQ0eP0Eh0&t=44s
Kohlschreiber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyQ0eP0Eh0&t=1m22s
Nadal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQvbT8uEGk&t=25s
Henin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBioEMX2IdM
Agassi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnnKt_SeJ6s

Their arms and shoulders move together as a unit. It looks like a machine. Their chests looks expanded. Yours looks collapsed.

If you grab a racquet and shadow swing this movement you're going to feel a difference right away on the 1st swing. It will feel 'right'. You'll also notice that at the contact point you will feel more stable and balanced. The body won't feel tugged off balance which you probably didn't notice before but you will now when you see the difference.

One thing this method gives you in addition to better balance, is more power. You will feel that your left arm now plays a more active role in the swing. You will feel both of your shoulders are now engaged instead of just the right shoulder. Also you will see that with the correct pull of the left arm in this position that it will stretch your pectoral and shoulder muscles. This stretch will give you more rhs.
You will also notice that the entire swing feels better.
Also once I learned this I found that it was instantly incorporated into my swing. I didn't have to work on building the muscle memory for it... as if my brain approved, was happy, and picked it up right away.

Give it a try with some shadow swings and you'll see what I mean.

Dude, awesome. I know exactly what you are saying and literally every time I hit the ball and my left hand is still across my body or in a weird position, I get ticked off. I appreciate it, let me see if I can get this grooving tonight.

Just looked at my forehand again and it is so clear as day - it looks hideous..lol. I must fix this asap.

Power Player said:

Dude, awesome. I know exactly what you are saying and literally every time I hit the ball and my left hand is still across my body or in a weird position, I get ticked off. I appreciate it, let me see if I can get this grooving tonight.

Just looked at my forehand again and it is so clear as day - it looks hideous..lol. I must fix this asap.

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cool. the best thing about this is that you'll pick it up right away. the noticeable difference in feel is so strong and positive that you'll just start doing it. you won't have to 'practice' it.

nice forehands PP

^^^^

This looks like a good tip. Not something I had thought about but I'm going to give it a try as well.

It worked. I was doing this months ago and just lost it, but i played for a couple hours tonight and got it going again. I noticed that the best part is under pressure it is easier to hit big shots. I also noticed more spin and pace as well. Good stuff. It will be obvious next time i film.

Power Player said:

It worked. I was doing this months ago and just lost it, but i played for a couple hours tonight and got it going again. I noticed that the best part is under pressure it is easier to hit big shots. I also noticed more spin and pace as well. Good stuff. It will be obvious next time i film.

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Nice. I know what you mean by shots under pressure. You can use the left arm more in these situations and more of the bigger muscles (shoulders and chest) get activated and soak up the heaviness / pressure and allow you to get better pace and spin w/o swinging like crazy.

Cheetah said:

yea true. i only comment on 1hbh's though.
Ok, your fh...

...
...
...

Give it a try with some shadow swings and you'll see what I mean.

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In other words, bring your left arm like in like you're going to catch the racket.

Yep, the key part was when you said open up the chest. Once i read that, i remembered the proper feel and then just had to do it a bunch of times to make it a habit again.

TheCheese said:

In other words, bring your left arm like in like you're going to catch the racket.

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Kind of, but thats not the way to think about it..at least for me.

TheCheese said:

In other words, bring your left arm like in like you're going to catch the racket.

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no.
catching implies waiting and most likely not moving. the arms move together in symmetry with similar amounts of abduction on each side. balance is the key. not catching. and also the important part is the movement of the left arm during the swing. not at the end of the swing during the 'catch'.

LeeD said:

You mean besides losing some weight, and staying down on 1hbh slices?

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I'm amazed at how consistently wrong you're about things...Wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't come from such a position of self proclaimed expertise....

You know what lats are? Got any idea what kind of work it takes to develop a back like the OP is sportin? He is strong as hell, and possesses really good feet. What the hell are you talking about...

You are sooo far off base, you barely deserve a reply.
Lats. I'm a surfer, have surfed for 25 years 6 days a week. Nobody who doesn't train has lats nearly like mine. Everyone who sees me with my shirt off asks if I work out. I don't. Even current 6 day a week surfers don't have more definitive lats, and usually smaller.
On a Cybex machine, there are TWO lat pull machines. I weigh right around 147 lbs. I lat pull on both usually 190 lbs. 50 reps. To tell you relative weight, I bicept curl 50 lbs., tricept curl 50, and shoulder press on both machines only 30 lbs., 30 reps each. My lats are waaay stronger than most people who weigh 190 lbs.
I suck at tennis, I'll agree. I'm inconsistent and often walkabout. You can criticise me all you want on those two points, and I'll accept it.
But don't talk to me about lats, or fitness. I'm 5'11" and 147 lbs at 63 years, 10 months.
Power Player and I would be close, if he hit normal as I would. He would crush me playing dink and drop/lob tennis, as I can't run. If he dropped 12 lbs., he would be a much better player.
I played over 12 A/Open tourneys, can handle pace. I'm a low 4.5 doubles player, closer to top of the line before bump up 3.5 singles player...because I have two torn tendons on the top of my left foot.

Lee, I'd love to play you for the sake of the forums' entertainment. I cant remember the last time I have lost to a 3.5 player in singles to be honest. There are a lot of great older players here who can hang, but they all have speed and footwork and play at a 4.5 level still.

I am not just a guy who hits for pace. I value placement over that and like to hit into either corner with my strokes. So you need to be able to run side to side, and from the sampling I saw of you walking, I dont think that is going to happen throughout a match.

Anyway, why you keep posting and telling me we would have a close match is beyond me because I never posted video to really have hypothetical matches with people on the web. Who knows, maybe you would smoke me and teach me something, but I play some amazing older guys who eat up pace, hit impeccable droppers and still retained good footspeed, so I wouldnt be taken by surprise.

Since we live on opposite coasts, this is probably never going to happen so it is a waste of time to think that much about.

With all that aside, I am interested in the 12 pounds. Where did this number come from and what do I gain from this? I'd love to drop 12 pounds if it will help my tennis, but it will cost me some muscle in the process. Like I said, I am already very fast on the court according to my coach, so is this a speed thing or what?

You should learn from Cheetah. When he posts advice, he doesnt make it about himself, he just drops great details that can help. With you, everything seems like you are out to prove yourself and one up everybody all the time.

Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose? I mean, if you really made a commitment purely for tennis, wouldn't you drop 12 lbs? Or somewhere close to that, either direction?
I'm not talking about looking good for the girls, or whatever reason.
There are NO tennis players in the top ranks that are built like you. Sure, Nadal has calf's that are big, as does DJ, but their upper bodies are smaller than yours, as is their off arms.
I see you as a strong guy playing tennis. Not as a tennis player getting strong for tennis. Would you agree there?
Now which of the above do you see in the top 500 men's players?

LeeD said:

Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose? I mean, if you really made a commitment purely for tennis, wouldn't you drop 12 lbs? Or somewhere close to that, either direction?
I'm not talking about looking good for the girls, or whatever reason.
There are NO tennis players in the top ranks that are built like you. Sure, Nadal has calf's that are big, as does DJ, but their upper bodies are smaller than yours, as is their off arms.
I see you as a strong guy playing tennis. Not as a tennis player getting strong for tennis. Would you agree there?
Now which of the above do you see in the top 500 men's players?

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With regard to ATP pros, I think a lot of it has to do with the grind of the tour and not being injured. More weight (whether muscle or fat) will increase stress on the joints and for people playing and practicing VERY intensely and frequently through a whole year, they want to minimize the wear and tear. That doesn't apply to rec players. Maybe there are some flexibility issues too, but OP is obviously very explosive and quick judging by the video so the muscle isn't harming him in that regard. Remember he said he is only about 5'8 so to make up for the leverage disadvantage the muscle will definitely help. Look at pros the same height as OP like Ferrer, he is a pretty muscular guy.

LeeD said:

Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose? I mean, if you really made a commitment purely for tennis, wouldn't you drop 12 lbs? Or somewhere close to that, either direction?
I'm not talking about looking good for the girls, or whatever reason.
There are NO tennis players in the top ranks that are built like you. Sure, Nadal has calf's that are big, as does DJ, but their upper bodies are smaller than yours, as is their off arms.
I see you as a strong guy playing tennis. Not as a tennis player getting strong for tennis. Would you agree there?
Now which of the above do you see in the top 500 men's players?

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Power Player and I are built very similar. It's genetic Lee. I've done serious dieting and exercise before but unless I get sick and don't eat, there is a weight ceiling I just can't get below. I'm sure he is the same way. Being close to middle age with work commitments, we can't play tennis 10 hours a day.

As for a hypothetical matchup, I've played once against Power Player and seen your videos. PP has a 4.5 ground game but needs to improve his serve to get to 4.5 overall. I doubt you would get more than 2 or 3 games against him.

Right now I am at 12% fat. It is tough to drop 12 pounds without losing muscle, but if it means protecting my knees from wear or helping prevent injury than I would do it.

You still never really answered my question. You just said that there are no strong guys like me playing top 500 tennis. Well, I am not sure how that is applicable to anyone here.

Good point by president. Pros play so much tennis, that they probably eat tons more than me and still drop weight.

Also Ferrer is basically built like Mikerler and I. The difference is that tennis is his life. He can devote his entire days to training. If I did that, I am sure I would be rather light as well. He is our height and weighs 160. I am 174. So I may be able to get to 164, as I was around there when I played college lacrosse.

LeeD said:

On a Cybex machine, there are TWO lat pull machines. I weigh right around 147 lbs. I lat pull on both usually 190 lbs. 50 reps. To tell you relative weight, I bicept curl 50 lbs., tricept curl 50, and shoulder press on both machines only 30 lbs., 30 reps each. My lats are waaay stronger than most people who weigh 190 lbs. But don't talk to me about lats, or fitness.

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I have an amazing left pinky finger and a well above average 4th toe on my right foot.

Power Player said:

Here you go - this is just some hitting practice with a friend and my strokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ottAYQ0BABY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkB-gjq_4Q

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Power Player said:

My body fat is around 12% right now.

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You're 12%?

Did I ever say I was a model physical specimen. I'm 63, and you know my list of injuries.
PP, I'm just saying a pro can have you lower body build, but every single one has less muscle up top, because their goal is tennis, and tennis only.
I WISH I had your upper body, but I don't. Too bad.
You KNOW, if you lost muscle weight in the upper body, got in slightly better lower body shape, your tennis would improve another level...speed, quickness, endurance. That's all I"m saying.

r2, Yeah according the gym PT using his caliper. Whats your guess? I know it's not 100% accurate.

Lee, I am not disagreeing, just asking. Lighter is nice..easier on the body. I have to figure out the ideal tennis diet. It is hard to dial it up right and not get faint out on the courts, or eat too much before and not burn enough...

I'm running around my backhand and hitting inside out forehands, to abuse people's backhands. It's working really well, especially since I hit with tons of junk on the ball.

My backhand is very solid, but I don't have the same kind of movement and pace on the ball as my forehand.

Couple that with pulling a forehand inside in every now an then, and my opponents have been stumped recently.

Magnetite said:

I'm running around my backhand and hitting inside out forehands, to abuse people's backhands. It's working really well, especially since I hit with tons of junk on the ball.

My backhand is very solid, but I don't have the same kind of movement and pace on the ball as my forehand.

Couple that with pulling a forehand inside in every now an then, and my opponents have been stumped recently.

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I play the same if by junk you mean topspin. One thing I was taught by a really great coach and successful player (top 500) is that you dont need to worry about putting action on the backhand. You want to drive through it and it doesnt need much spin. He really helped shape my game off that wing, so if you are looking for more pace, try that.

Yes, even Nadal hits flatter on his backhand side, and often can hit a faster moving passing shot on his 2hbh. It's noticeable on most ATP pros as well.
That's one reason guys like Guga, Vilas, and Lendl were such abberations in tennis. They could hit their backhands almost as hard as their forehand, with just as much spin, and possibly more consistently.

Power Player said:

r2, Yeah according the gym PT using his caliper. Whats your guess? I know it's not 100% accurate.

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It's really impossible to guess. 12% sounds OK to me.

LeeD said:

Are you saying you DON'T have 12 lbs. to lose?

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Are you kidding me??!! Power Player is already so darn sexy!! If he were to lose 12 lbs, he would be TOO SEXY!!!!!

lodeen said:

Are you kidding me??!! Power Player is already so darn sexy!! If he were to lose 12 lbs, he would be TOO SEXY!!!!!

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Imagine if I rollerbladed...lol.

Power Player said:

Imagine if I rollerbladed...lol.

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...then you'd have a firm butt and tight legs!

We should start a PP fan club right now! Good you posted this vid, pretty soon, you can charge us for watching your video.
Better to have than to have not.
Would be good to see you against Jamison, on the tourney thread. Two lightheavyweights duking it out.

I can get some vid of me and Lodeen sometime if he wants. Lodeen clocks in with a leaded up PS85 and full poly.

sorry, we were hoping he was a she...

...I could wear a skirt...lol