Cross for Wilson Natural Gut
- Thread starter PigPen
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finalfantasy7
Semi-Pro
Co-focus, a lot people really like this especially as a cross with gut mains
Lambsscroll
Hall of Fame
For kicks try what Fed uses. You only live once.
Stringers
Rookie
Just got done with this set up. Plays great, was a little too soft for me but I can see why others love it.
Right now Pacific Classic/B5E is my go to.
4G.
Holds tension as well as natural gut. Only problem: depending on the frane it can feel mighty stiff.
I'm having a PSGT strung with Wilson Gut / 4G 125 @ 49/45 to see now that works.
If really seekng a soft co-poly then I agree, MsV Co-Focus is perfect. Nothing more comfortable. Only downside is lower control and lots of power, at least for a poly.
Holds tension as well as natural gut. Only problem: depending on the frane it can feel mighty stiff.
I'm having a PSGT strung with Wilson Gut / 4G 125 @ 49/45 to see now that works.
If really seekng a soft co-poly then I agree, MsV Co-Focus is perfect. Nothing more comfortable. Only downside is lower control and lots of power, at least for a poly.
How long does this combo last?
That's exactly what I was going to recommend. I think Pro-Line II would fit what you are looking for well.
Here's what I like:
Best: Tour Bite, Hurricane Feel. Both have good spin and pop
OK: 4G--maintains tension well, otherwise a little dull. Hepta-Twist--great spin, decent power, lousy plastic feel.
No thanks: RPM Blast--great performance for a couple hours, then dies horribly. I've never had my arm hurt as much as when hitting with this stuff after it died (about 4 hrs).
Now trying: Big Hitter Blue Rough, Volkl Cyclone.
After these two, I'm done screwing around with crosses for my gut.
Best: Tour Bite, Hurricane Feel. Both have good spin and pop
OK: 4G--maintains tension well, otherwise a little dull. Hepta-Twist--great spin, decent power, lousy plastic feel.
No thanks: RPM Blast--great performance for a couple hours, then dies horribly. I've never had my arm hurt as much as when hitting with this stuff after it died (about 4 hrs).
Now trying: Big Hitter Blue Rough, Volkl Cyclone.
After these two, I'm done screwing around with crosses for my gut.
finalfantasy7
Semi-Pro
ive never tried B5E, but ive heard very good reviews about it, the thing is with co-focus thats its very cheap set/full reel, for the price v peformance - in my opinion its up thr.
Could you compare the two setups, good to read
WileyCoyote
Rookie
Agree on the 4G and Co focus. The Co focus is softer, but the 4G is OK for me and seems to last longer.
Fed's setup as last I read about it was Wilson NG with ALU rough at something like 49 mains and 47 crosses, depending on which article you read. Wilson sells this as Champions Choice. I tried it and like the 4G better.
I would try the co focus first, and if its life is too short, try the 4G. I string at 50/48 and these are the most delicious stringbeds I have ever felt when I manage to find the sweet spot.
Harry
Fed's setup as last I read about it was Wilson NG with ALU rough at something like 49 mains and 47 crosses, depending on which article you read. Wilson sells this as Champions Choice. I tried it and like the 4G better.
I would try the co focus first, and if its life is too short, try the 4G. I string at 50/48 and these are the most delicious stringbeds I have ever felt when I manage to find the sweet spot.
Harry
parasailing
Legend
Kirschbaum Evolution for power
Ltec 4S for crisp feel and excellent tension maintenance
4G - haven't tried it yet gets good reviews here on the forum
Signum Pro Plasma Poly - good control and tension maintenance
Ltec 4S for crisp feel and excellent tension maintenance
4G - haven't tried it yet gets good reviews here on the forum
Signum Pro Plasma Poly - good control and tension maintenance
The Meat
Hall of Fame
Babolat VS Team Gut actually, the good stuff :wink:
Hit at lunchtime with Wilson Natural Gut 16 / 4G 125 at 49/45 in a modified Pure Storm GT (16x20, 98").
Wow!!! Extremely comfortable and great combination of control, power, and spin. I used the Wilson since I happened to have an extra half-set laying around. Next time I'll be giving VS Touch/4G a try at this lower tension. The 4G seems stiff enough to provide plenty of control in spite of the low tension, even with gut mains.
Wow!!! Extremely comfortable and great combination of control, power, and spin. I used the Wilson since I happened to have an extra half-set laying around. Next time I'll be giving VS Touch/4G a try at this lower tension. The 4G seems stiff enough to provide plenty of control in spite of the low tension, even with gut mains.
JT_2eighty
Hall of Fame
another vote for MSV Co-focus. Soft and remains soft over time. Most other polys get harsh over time.
If you don't want poly and want pure comfort for the arm, Isospeed Professional Classic is going to give you great comfort and control, and as a 4.5-5.0, you'll be fine generating your own spin and power, since it won't be the 'easy spin' you get from poly.
Even the softest poly will not be nice to a really sensitive arm.
JT_2eighty
Hall of Fame
You could always just cross it with a good syn gut of your choice.
The benefit to either an Isospeed Classic or a Synthetic Gut is that your tension & playability over time will be much more consistent than any poly. Even the best tension maintenance polys lose their luster over time. MSV co-focus is the only one I tried that remains soft over time, but even that one gets a little too powerful if you don't break it after a few weeks.
What string pattern / racquet do you use?
What's your standard tension?
The benefit to either an Isospeed Classic or a Synthetic Gut is that your tension & playability over time will be much more consistent than any poly. Even the best tension maintenance polys lose their luster over time. MSV co-focus is the only one I tried that remains soft over time, but even that one gets a little too powerful if you don't break it after a few weeks.
What string pattern / racquet do you use?
What's your standard tension?
I use a Vantage 95, 63 flex and 16x19 string pattern. I have been using Wilson 17g gut with 18g Co-Focus at 50/47. The combo is nice and comfortable, but MSV seems to get powerful over time. I'm looking for a combo that is comfortable, retains tension and has great feel. I am more of a touch than power player.
I agree with you about the RPM. My forearm and shoulder hurt for 6 months after a stint with this string.
There is cause to be concerned about 4G's stiffness but it really depends on several factors.
Your own arm sensitivity is paramount. For some it will just be too stiff no matter the other factors. For others it will work in any situation. For everyone else we're talking shades of gray. My arm is sensitive and I can handle 4G in certain situations.
- in my Dunlop 200s (18x20, 95") I found 4G way too stiff even at lower tensions in the 40a. Ouch!
- in my Dunlop 200 Tours it's wonderful in the low 50s as a cross with gut mains.
- in my Pure Storm GTs I dislike it in the low 50s as a cross with gut. But in the mid 40s as a cross with gut it's perfectly fine for me. Hit with it again tonight and switched between my frame with Wilson Gut/4G @ 49/45 and my frame with VS Touch/4G @ 55/51. Both were comfy as I've added even more lead to the head upping my SW but the 49/45 frame was extremely confortable and still extremely precise. I played with my wife tonight and she was so angry at my touch shots she threw her frame...twice. There's just nothing that compares to 4G for accuracy over time.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Babolat VS Team and Wilson 17 use to be identical (babolat makes the string for wilson). However, When Babolat decided to change their layup of the string this year to the BT7, Wilson gut stayed the same. In other words, it is the same as the old Babolat VS Team, which is hands down a better string than Babolat's BT7.
The BT7 plays stiffer, and is not as "smooth" as the Wilson.
BTW, Fed's strings comes in the Wilson package.
As for the OP question, black magic 17 is nice, Pro Supex Big Ace, Adrenaline, etc. Lot of nice softer poly strings out there.
The 4G is nice and holds tension fairly well, but as someone else said, does tend to feel a bit on the stiffer side.
Interesting how the feel changes with different rackets. Sounds appealing though. THanks for the info.
How do the crosses you mention compare with Co-focus or Pro Line II? Thanks
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Can't give opinion on co-focus, but pro line 2 in my opinion is doo-doo. Doesn't hold tension at all, which is why some feel it plays "soft". Feels like playing with wet cardboard.
What do black magic 17 is nice, Pro Supex Big Ace, Adrenaline play like as crosses with gut?
The Meat
Hall of Fame
Ahh, thanks for correcting me. Does he use a stock champion's pack or does he use a pack of nat. gut and a reel of luxilon?
I think it has to do with two factors: frame stiffness and string pattern.
The PSGT is a little stiffer than the 4D 200 Tour. So a string comfortable in the 200 Tour might not be as comfortable in the stiffer PSGT.
The 4D 200's dense string bed means less flex in the string bed which means a stiffer string will feel more harsh compared to how it feels in an open string bed.
It's definitely not binary and instead you have many different factors which influence one another in subtle and dynamic ways that can even change over time.
Lambsscroll
Hall of Fame
Good question.
JT_2eighty
Hall of Fame
Ok, well then if you are already using a thin cross with good results, you definitely want to give WeissCannon Mosquito Bite a shot as your cross. It only comes in 1.16mm (18g), so it is not for everyone.
It is Comfy, Retains amazing tension, and by far, the Best Feel poly you will find. Nothing comes close, IMO, for a touch-oriented poly.
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
They provide a nice "shock system" to the gut in where they tame the power, yet don't take away from it, nor do their attributes drown out the great feel and performance of the gut.
You're welcome. He doesn't use the champions choice packs. he uses gut from a pack of wilson, and the lux rough from a reel. In this thread there are a bunch of photos I took when stringing with P1 this year.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=438964
You could see his pack of gut strings on the floor next to his frame:
They provide a nice "shock system" to the gut in where they tame the power, yet don't take away from it, nor do their attributes drown out the great feel and performance of the gut.
You're welcome. He doesn't use the champions choice packs. he uses gut from a pack of wilson, and the lux rough from a reel. In this thread there are a bunch of photos I took when stringing with P1 this year.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=438964
You could see his pack of gut strings on the floor next to his frame:
Which poly mentioned above do you feel provides the most spin?
Interesting choice. What do you string gut/mosquito bite at?
True, this constant experimentation with strings (and previously rackets) can be both fun and frustrating. When I was demoing rackets, my game really went downhill.
Yeah, I play better when I stick to one setup for an extended period. I've learned a ton from experiments. And hardware with a better "fit" determined by trying new stuff makes for a more enjoyable playing experience. But for competition you need "confident consistency" and that means a stable stroke which means you can't keeping hitting with a new setup every week with different power levels, swingweights, spin potential, etc.
Last year I hit with the Speed 300 for everything. This time I gave myself until December 31 to settle on a frame and string setup which I'll use throughout 2013. It's part of my evolving policy to stick to one setup spring through fall for competition and use winter to try new stuff. So I won't play league matches in the winter. By Dec 31 I'll have my final setup, play with it casually and in practice through late winter, and then use it for competition starting in the spring.
Sounds like a plan. Seems I have a "grass is greener on the other side" sickness with rackets an strings. Talk Tennis certainly fuels this obsession. I played with the PSGT for about one year and enjoyed that frame. Good luck with it.
ramos77
Semi-Pro
whats it like after 10-15 hours?
am using wilson ng/co-focus and its nice until the co-focus gets to powerful.
JT_2eighty
Hall of Fame
52 lb pacific tough gut mains
49 lb wc mosquito bite cross
18x20 midplus pt280 (similar to prestige MP, with more flex)
Exactly my problem with cofocus
How long does mb stay playable. Cofocus eventually loses tension and gets too powerful.
JT_2eighty
Hall of Fame
At least twice as long as co-focus. WC strings are amazing at holding tension, and MB fits their lineup in terms of tension hold.
And I'm assuming no arm problems with mb?
I love CF for its spin but ultimately had the same issue. Switched to 4G. Focus Hex 1.18 is also better for tamng the power but nothing beats 4G in control (spin potential not as good as CoFocus or Focus Gex crosses).
I use VS/4G and it's almost like full bed gut in that it plays great until it breaks. The 4G starts out sort of stiff and then gets pillow soft for an extended period. I had it in one frame for roughly 8 weeks before I felt it became anything close to unplayable. When it does finally die it becomes boardy and dull instead of more springy and powerful.
I would say it's best from 1-20 hours in comfort. Very slow decline from there.
Thank you for the detailed review. Seems to last a long time. Does the ng or 4g typically break first?
Does MB play soft or crisp. What about the power level?
