Best Tennis Balls

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 2, 2012

zapvor said:
for me they are heavier too. you are connecting the wrong things. i dont like the balls because they are hard and heavy, not because they transmit shock to my arm. it has nothing to do with that. i just dont like the feel of the bounce

The hardness of the Dunlop ball is exactly what that shock (& vibration) transmitted the arm is. What other explanation would you have for your ability to feel the hardness/stiffness of the ball?

As for heaviness (static weight), the balls are within ITF specs (which are fairly narrow as I indicated previously). If the balls really are heavier, on average, that other balls that you use, the difference is, no doubt, extremely slight. It is doubtful that you would even be able to detect the difference with most commercial scales (like a food scale or a postal scale). A ball may give the illusion that it is heavier (weights more) because of its stiffness &, perhaps, due to it's dwell time on the stringbed.
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zapvor · Dec 3, 2012

easy. i bounce the ball on the ground like a basketball. very easy to tell how hard something is. try it

tistrapukcipeht · Dec 3, 2012

Is Penn ATP really the same as Pro Penn Marathon?

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 3, 2012

^ No, not the same ball. check out the descriptions for the 2 balls on the Penn site:

http://www.pennracquet.com/professional.html

zapvor said:
easy. i bounce the ball on the ground like a basketball. very easy to tell how hard something is. try it

This doesn't make any sense -- don't get what you are trying to say. Are you saying that you are bothered by the sound of the Dunlop balls on the strings or the ground?

If you are talking about the way it feels, then it is (mechanical) shock & vibrations, my friend. Pure & simple.
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zapvor · Dec 3, 2012

i guess its tough to explain. when you bounce a basketball, you dont complain of vibrations/ shock. when was the last time any NBA pro or any casual basketball baller said "oh god the way the ball bounces its giving me shock and vibrations" so again, go bounce different kinds of tennis balls. try it.

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 3, 2012

zapvor said:
i guess its tough to explain. when you bounce a basketball, you dont complain of vibrations/ shock. when was the last time any NBA pro or any casual basketball baller said "oh god the way the ball bounces its giving me shock and vibrations" so again, go bounce different kinds of tennis balls. try it.

It appears that I have not been clear enough with what I've been trying to say. ALL ball impacts with the racket/strings will transmit some measure of shock and vibrations to the hand and arm holding the racket. Even when we hit foam balls or the softest Penn balls with the most arm-friendly racket available on the market, there will be some shock & vibrations transmitted to the hand/arm -- this is what we are feeling. When we say that Dunlop balls feel harder than Penn balls, it is because they affect the strings and racket in such a way that a bit more shock/vibrations are produced that reach your arm.

When you bounce your basketball you also feel shock/vibrations transmitted to your hand/arm. However, they are not usually great enough to really bother you. It is only when the shock intensity or magnitude that reaches our arm is large enough that problems arise.

If the intensity is high enough, the shock can eventually result in wrist, elbow or shoulder problems. In your case, the shock/vibrations from hitting Dunlop balls is enough to bother you a bit but not enough to cause any real pain or damage.

The bottom line: Just because an impact doesn't result in pain or damage does not mean that no shock or vibrations are produced (and reach your arm).

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 3, 2012

More info on impact shock:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577483/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_(mechanics)

"A mechanical or physical shock is a sudden acceleration or deceleration caused, for example, by impact, drop, kick, earthquake, or explosion . Shock is a transient physical excitation... "

anubis · Dec 4, 2012

Wow, I had no idea that balls meant so much. I guess I just never really paid attention. i buy regular old penn championships at costco b/c its $30 a case, never really knowing that they were crappy balls. I have a couple of cans of pro penn marathons and i like those a lot, but only b/c they last longer. but i didn't know that better balls actually bounced differently, or could be imparted with more or less spin.

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 4, 2012

^ The Penn Champs are not really crappy balls. It's just that there are better balls available on the market -- for a price. If you get ball that last a lot longer than the Penn Champs, it could be much cheaper in the long run. It would be great if Prince Tour balls became available again since their longevity is unmatched -- and they are superior balls in other respects as well.
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zapvor · Dec 4, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
It appears that I have not been clear enough with what I've been trying to say. ALL ball impacts with the racket/strings will transmit some measure of shock and vibrations to the hand and arm holding the racket. Even when we hit foam balls or the softest Penn balls with the most arm-friendly racket available on the market, there will be some shock & vibrations transmitted to the hand/arm -- this is what we are feeling. When we say that Dunlop balls feel harder than Penn balls, it is because they affect the strings and racket in such a way that a bit more shock/vibrations are produced that reach your arm.

When you bounce your basketball you also feel shock/vibrations transmitted to your hand/arm. However, they are not usually great enough to really bother you. It is only when the shock intensity or magnitude that reaches our arm is large enough that problems arise.

If the intensity is high enough, the shock can eventually result in wrist, elbow or shoulder problems. In your case, the shock/vibrations from hitting Dunlop balls is enough to bother you a bit but not enough to cause any real pain or damage.

The bottom line: Just because an impact doesn't result in pain or damage does not mean that no shock or vibrations are produced (and reach your arm).

lol you are nuts man. how are you going to tell me what bothers me or not. only i can feel what i feel. hitting dunlop balls doesnt bother me a bit. i just dont like the way they feel so i choose not too play with them. its not because of this shock thing you keep trying to drill into me. but at this point i dont think you will get it, so nevermind. believe whatever you want

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 4, 2012

zapvor said:
lol you are nuts man. how are you going to tell me what bothers me or not. only i can feel what i feel. hitting dunlop balls doesnt bother me a bit. i just dont like the way they feel so i choose not too play with them. its not because of this shock thing you keep trying to drill into me. but at this point i dont think you will get it, so nevermind. believe whatever you want

Seriously, are you just messing with me? I have tried my best to be as helpful, informative, patient and diplomatic as possible on this matter but it appears that you are either playing games with me or something else is going on? Are you adverse to learning something new?

Are you still in high school? Is English your primary language? It seems that you are misunderstanding quite a few things that I am saying or you are just taking it the wrong way. What I meant by "bothering you a bit" is just another way of saying that you don't like the those balls because you don't like the way they feel.

Sorry to be so blunt but I just cannot figure out why you are not grasping these concepts. Try asking someone else who is older, has more knowledge of science or has a better grasp of the language and see if they don't agree that what I've been saying doesn't make perfect sense to them.

If you are just yanking my chain, I don't appreciate it since I've spent a considerable amount of time/effort trying get these ideas across to you.
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LeeD · Dec 4, 2012

Yesterday, played a couple doubles sets with new DunlopHDHardCourtChamps. My first flat serve bounces around belt high, air temps 60, no wind.
Today, one set old ProPenns, air temp closer to 55 with rain likely, first flat bounces easy mid chest at the backboard, seen often when my flats up the middle landed on the partner's court.
If I had Wilson's, the bounce would be higher.

paul_tennis · Dec 4, 2012

Wilson US Open Extra Duty and also Head ATP (that it's supposed to be same as Penn balls?)

zapvor · Dec 4, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
Seriously, are you just messing with me? I have tried my best to be as helpful, informative, patient and diplomatic as possible on this matter but it appears that you are either playing games with me or something else is going on? Are you adverse to learning something new?

Are you still in high school? Is English your primary language? It seems that you are misunderstanding quite a few things that I am saying or you are just taking it the wrong way. What I meant by "bothering you a bit" is just another way of saying that you don't like the those balls because you don't like the way they feel.

Sorry to be so blunt but I just cannot figure out why you are not grasping these concepts. Try asking someone else who is older, has more knowledge of science or has a better grasp of the language and see if they don't agree that what I've been saying doesn't make perfect sense to them.

If you are just yanking my chain, I don't appreciate it since I've spent a considerable amount of time/effort trying get these ideas across to you.
.

yea. i thnk you are messing with me. telling me how i feel about the way i feel about something? that was when i realized its not worth it. again, nevermind. believe whatever you want

Chotobaka · Dec 4, 2012

I am down the very last of my USA-made Pro Penns. Anyone have industry info on who supplies Prince Tour balls? I know Prince sources many ancillary products from Japan and am taking a flyer, hoping that their Tour ball are the same/similar to Yonex Tour balls. TIA.

Nostradamus · Dec 4, 2012

paul_tennis said:
Wilson US Open Extra Duty and also Head ATP (that it's supposed to be same as Penn balls?)

among the head balls, which one do you think is the best one as far as control goes?

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 4, 2012

zapvor said:
yea. i thnk you are messing with me. telling me how i feel about the way i feel about something? that was when i realized its not worth it. again, nevermind. believe whatever you want

Wow! You are really off the mark here. I was not telling how you feel..,

You are completely misinterpreting my ideas and my intent. From your over-reaction to my use of the word "bother", it appears that you clearly do not understand my use of the word. It was not meant as an attack or an affront to you. It was simply just another way of saying that you do not like the (hard) feel of Dunlop balls. I was serious when I wondered if English is your mother tongue because of the way you reacted to this word as well as your reaction/reply when I mentioned shock and vibrations. You appeared to took that as completely negative as well.

Not sure why you took offense. I was NOT telling you how you feel -- you had already told ME that. I was trying to inform you about the physical characteristics of the interaction with the (harder) ball that accounted for your dislike of the ball. I completely agree that Dunlop balls feel harder/stiffer than other brands. I was simply pointing out the underlying reason for this shared perception.
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mikeler · Dec 5, 2012

Chotobaka said:
I am down the very last of my USA-made Pro Penns. Anyone have industry info on who supplies Prince Tour balls? I know Prince sources many ancillary products from Japan and am taking a flyer, hoping that their Tour ball are the same/similar to Yonex Tour balls. TIA.

The Prince Tour ball was the best clay court ball a few years ago. Their QC started going down and some balls would randomly fuzz up like crazy. The bounce of these balls was excellent if you hit with a lot of spin.

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 5, 2012

Chotobaka said:
I am down the very last of my USA-made Pro Penns. Anyone have industry info on who supplies Prince Tour balls? I know Prince sources many ancillary products from Japan and am taking a flyer, hoping that their Tour ball are the same/similar to Yonex Tour balls. TIA.

It's going on 4 years since Head/Penn closed down their ball manufacturing plant in Arizona in early 2009. Are those old Pro Penn balls still any good? I would also be interested in hearing any info on Prince Tour balls. It appears that the only Prince balls that have been available for a while now are their training balls.

Chotobaka · Dec 5, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
It's going on 4 years since Head/Penn closed down their ball manufacturing plant in Arizona in early 2009. Are those old Pro Penn balls still any good? I would also be interested in hearing any info on Prince Tour balls. It appears that the only Prince balls that have been available for a while now are their training balls.

Still good -- amazingly, not one bad tube. I stocked up and carefully stored them as soon as they closed up shop here, now I am down to the last two tubes.

I've seen the Prince Tour Extra Duty available through distributors other than TW. Prices are similar to Penn Marathon, which I guess I will have to try sooner or later. I played the Yonex Tours in Japan and really like them -- they do not appear to be distributed in the USA and shipping from the UK or Japan is prohibitively expensive.

mad dog1 · Dec 5, 2012

TennisA said:
I personally love the Pro Penn Marathon Extra Duty balls. My high school uses them, and they generally retain their bounce for several months. Almost every other ball we've used usually dies within the month we get them.
For me, they also aren't too heavy or light, so hitting with them feels fine

I also liked using the can of Slazenger balls I bought. Only problem I had with them is the logo of the ball wears off, which kind of bothers me at times

my experience as well.

mad dog1 · Dec 5, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
^ Never seen any Volkl balls in my neck of the woods. Which Dunlops are you referring to? You must qualify your statement. There are also a number of other models than the 3 listed in the poll. You cannot dismiss the highly-regarded Grand Prix balls just cuz you don't like the A-Player, Championship or one of the other Dunlop models.

http://www.dunlop.com/us/catalog/2010/tennis/balls

tried the volkl balls...nothing special. they retained their bounce but the felt wasn't very durable as they went bald pretty quickly.

mad dog1 · Dec 5, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
The hardness of the Dunlop ball is exactly what that shock (& vibration) transmitted the arm is.

this is the main complaint that nearly everyone i hit with has about the Dunlop ball.

zapvor · Dec 5, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
Wow! You are really off the mark here. I was not telling how you feel..,

You are completely misinterpreting my ideas and my intent. From your over-reaction to my use of the word "bother", it appears that you clearly do not understand my use of the word. It was not meant as an attack or an affront to you. It was simply just another way of saying that you do not like the (hard) feel of Dunlop balls. I was serious when I wondered if English is your mother tongue because of the way you reacted to this word as well as your reaction/reply when I mentioned shock and vibrations. You appeared to took that as completely negative as well.

Not sure why you took offense. I was NOT telling you how you feel -- you had already told ME that. I was trying to inform you about the physical characteristics of the interaction with the (harder) ball that accounted for your dislike of the ball. I completely agree that Dunlop balls feel harder/stiffer than other brands. I was simply pointing out the underlying reason for this shared perception.

If you are satisfied with, "I don't like it just because I don't like it" then I guess I've been wasting my time trying to give some insight into the physical phenomenon that accounts for our perceptions of ball/string interactions. Let me warn you tho' -- you will not get far when writing college papers or when submitting reports for future jobs if you say, "it's that way, just because". You really need to figure out the WHY and how to express that WHY to others.

lol. well you took the time to go back and edit posts just for me. funny. and now you are saying stuff about warning me about writing papers and jobs? thanks mom! LOL you crack me up.

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 5, 2012

zapvor said:
lol. well you took the time to go back and edit posts just for me. funny. and now you are saying stuff about warning me about writing papers and jobs? thanks mom! LOL you crack me up.

I took the time to edit the posts so I would not offend you since you seemed to be taking several things that I had to say the wrong way. The refusal to even consider a very logical, scientific explanation puzzles me. A very vague, "I just don't like it" is what amazes me. "nuff said.

akind · Dec 6, 2012

Slazenger grass and hardcourt balls.

zapvor · Dec 8, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
I took the time to edit the posts so I would not offend you since you seemed to be taking several things that I had to say the wrong way. The refusal to even consider a very logical, scientific explanation puzzles me. A very vague, "I just don't like it" is what amazes me. "nuff said.

lol yea. that was good. you edited out other stuff too. but its cool man. no hard feelings. just a stupid debate. i dont like the way balls feel, you are going off on some tangent to prove soemthing, its all non sense. you play with what you like, and i will play with what i like. everyone wins

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 10, 2012

^ Hardly what I would call a debate at all. What is it that you thought we were "debating"? My first query to you was an attempt to get some concrete or explicit (rather than vague) feedback on why you did not like Dunlop balls. It turned out that we agreed that Dunlop balls, in general, feel harder than other balls. This is a perfectly valid gripe or assessment. (For me, that hardness is offset by other, more positive qualities of GP balls).

My next intent was not really to say why you felt that this hardness is not to your liking. My primary intent was to explain the (scientific) reason why one ball feels harder than another -- it is not nonsense at all. However, it seems to me that you were not focusing on that explanation but, rather, on certain words that I was using, like "shock" and "bother". Those were the tangents that I saw in this discussion.
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zapvor · Dec 10, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
^ Hardly what I would call a debate at all. What is it that you thought we were "debating"? My first query to you was an attempt to get some concrete or explicit (rather than vague) feedback on why you did not like Dunlop balls. It turned out that we agreed that Dunlop balls, in general, feel harder than other balls. This is a perfectly valid gripe or assessment. (For me, that hardness is offset by other, more positive qualities of GP balls).

My next intent was not really to say why you felt that this hardness is not to your liking. My primary intent was to explain the (scientific) reason why one ball feels harder than another -- it is not nonsense at all. However, it seems to me that you were not focusing on that explanation but, rather, on certain words that I was using, like "shock" and "bother". Those were the tangents that I saw in this discussion.
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lol and yet here you are taking my words such as 'debate' so seriously as well. dude, let it go man. i dont even care. why do you care so much? go out and hit some

mikeler · Dec 10, 2012

Zapvor,

Are you really laughing out loud as you write every post?

Federerkblade · Dec 10, 2012

Have you guys played with the mantis tour ball ???? awesome balls lasts long time

zapvor · Dec 10, 2012

mikeler said:
Zapvor,

Are you really laughing out loud as you write every post?

its pretty funny thats for sure. hes so serious!

SystemicAnomaly · Dec 11, 2012

zapvor said:
its pretty funny thats for sure. hes so serious!

My apologies for trying to educate. Keep on grinning if you think it helps.

Rozroz · Dec 11, 2012

mikeler said:
Zapvor,

Are you really laughing out loud as you write every post?

now THAT was a LOL, lol

taurussable · Dec 11, 2012

mad dog1 said:
this is the main complaint that nearly everyone i hit with has about the Dunlop ball.

don't feel dunlops hard.

Rozroz · Dec 11, 2012

taurussable said:
don't feel dunlops hard.

try to play with Penn Champioship to really feel the difference.
the Penn are so soft you almost don't feel the impact!
that's why elders at my club swear by them i guess.

mikeler · Dec 11, 2012

Rozroz said:
try to play with Penn Champioship to really feel the difference.
the Penn are so soft you almost don't feel the impact!
that's why elders at my club swear by them i guess.

You'll break your back though since the balls don't bounce at all.

Rozroz · Dec 11, 2012

mikeler said:
You'll break your back though since the balls don't bounce at all.

i guess that's why my 60yrs old flat hitter opponent likes them so much

puts him in control so he destroys me every time.

the one time i beat him was with bouncy balls.

zapvor · Dec 11, 2012

SystemicAnomaly said:
My apologies for trying to educate. Keep on grinning if you think it helps.

no need to apologize man. its all good

zapvor · Dec 11, 2012

Rozroz said:
now THAT was a LOL, lol

yea i wasnt sure what mikeler meant by that

ArliHawk · Dec 11, 2012

zapvor said:
yea i wasnt sure what mikeler meant by that

Used to be US Opens, but I bought a case a few months ago and the quality doesn't seemt to be on par with the Penn ATP's I played this summer. Babolat and Penn ATP are probably my favorites.

zapvor · Dec 11, 2012

the us opens are fine for me.

Pozza · Dec 11, 2012

Wilson AO balls are quite popular here.

They run about $8US for a can of 4.

zapvor · Dec 11, 2012

thats mad expensive!

ArliHawk · Dec 11, 2012

Back to the Penn ATP for me. Just ordered a case from here, can't justify the price difference between them and Wilson US Opens.

Pozza · Dec 11, 2012

zapvor said:
thats mad expensive!

That's about a standard retail price for balls in Australia.

The exchange rate is roughly dollar for dollar and Wilson US opens are about $7 for a can of 3, Wilson AO's are about $8 and most other balls range between about $7 and $10 per can

canny · Dec 12, 2012

Dunlop Championships hands down. I feel they're alittle too live sometimes but after 10 mins they settle in. Slaz. are a beautiful ball to hit with. I wish they made a hardcourt version with more felt but they are fantastic. Penn's are god awful But I hear the atp is nice which I'd like to try. Im not exactly fond of wilson championships (non us) they seem to lack liveliness.

JW10S · Dec 12, 2012

PENN hit a 60% market share this year in the US--just killing the competition. Numbers don't lie--more people play with PENNs than anything else by a long shot.

LeeD · Dec 12, 2012

Penns, and especially Wilsons, are fantasy balls.
They bounce stomach high on my first serves. They bounce higher on my second serves....at the backboard.
Dunlops barely get to thigh high on firsts, and sometimes don't make the backboard after it's initial bounce in the service court. That is a reality ball.
I can almost sustain a rally with Dunlops.
Wilson and Penns, it's one ball winner or loser.
I play on cement courts painted, air temps around 55-60.

AlfaAce · Dec 12, 2012

JW10S said:
PENN hit a 60% market share this year in the US--just killing the competition. Numbers don't lie--more people play with PENNs than anything else by a long shot.

Actually numbers can (and often do) lie. Statistics (aka "numbers") are notoriously malleable.

Gotta ask... does PENN manufacture more balls than other companies? If so, that could explain "60% market share".

I've been playing tennis a long time and PENNS are not my favorite. But... to each his own.

Best Tennis Balls

What's your favorite tennis ball?

Dunlop Championship

Dunlop A-Player

Dunlop Grand Prix

Pro Penn Marathon

Penn ATP

Penn Championship

Wilson US Open

Wilson Championship

Babolat French Open

Other

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G.O.A.T.

Professional

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Professional

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