Modern Tennis Tips by Oscar Wegner
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10isfreak
Semi-Pro
10isfreak
Semi-Pro
Well, this is true in some sense. Understanding influences perception and thus experience, but sensing has nothing to do with it, so indeed: you need nothing else than your senses to sense.
But the problem here is about teaching, not doing...
arche3
Banned
Wegner
Rookie
Fact or slanted opinion, you'll be the judge.
It's it interesting how the author of "Does Modern Tennis Exist?" contradicts his own position back and forth. He is further agreeing with some of the tenets that I published in 1989, that is 23 years ago, longer than the quote "I've spent about 15 years studying these various permutations" he declares. I venture that I was coaching modern tennis before he was even born, starting in 1968 with Pancho Segura at the Beverly Hills Tennis Club. And of course I saw with my own eyes the ball slow down, losing more than half the speed. It was a given on the tour, always accepted by the touring players who stalked the ball. Not a precise measurement, but awareness non-the-less.
For those interested in comparing what he says in the thread Does Modern Tennis Exist? with my publications, check out my free 1989/1992 book:
www.tennisteacher.com/eBook.html
I personally don't understand why he comes to this thread to argue non-sequitur with other posters, unless he feels threatened by the array of technical data addressed here, feeling that it could be helpful to the reader and thus improve my status as a coach on TalkTennis, and wants this thread to be removed.
Wouldn't you agree that it is better if he posts in his own thread his conclusions and opinions? Wouldn't it be beneficial to the visitor if other great coaches such a Nick Bollettieri, Paul Anacone, Rick Macci, and more would open their own thread and post some of their knowledge?
I agree that my techniques, books and DVDs are the most radical departure from conventional coaching ever seen. Why have I adopted and published them?
Because they work !!!!!! Over 30,000 coaches and players have bought my DVDs, and more my books.
How does an individual wanting to be scientific ever fail to be so? He fails to be scientific by failing to apply logic. When one of his considerations fails to be a fact the whole string falls apart. It is one thing for a premise to be counter-intuitive, it is another thing for a premise to be false. This happens in tennis coaching as well.
I identified in my 1989 book 21 misconceptions that derail performance in this beautiful game. Some of them, as I see even from my detractors, have been overcome. Still, the industry has failed to make the game as simple as it can be. Rather than throwing false data overboard, justifications and compensations run galore.
An unfortunate result is that better players are counseled to compensate as well, in order to find invisible solutions to the equally invisible but frustrating failures to advance to the level they seek.
So, what is the solution?
Part of the answer lies in identifying and utilizing the so-called scientific method* accurately, with objective observation and experimentation unclouded by pre-conceived theory or agenda. Another contributing solution is having more positive, more famous coaches posting on TalkTennis. They may differ in opinion, but I say: "Bring It On".
Definitions:
scientific method - a method of research in which a problem is identified, relevant data gathered, a hypothesis is formulated from these data, and the hypothesis is empirically tested.
It's it interesting how the author of "Does Modern Tennis Exist?" contradicts his own position back and forth. He is further agreeing with some of the tenets that I published in 1989, that is 23 years ago, longer than the quote "I've spent about 15 years studying these various permutations" he declares. I venture that I was coaching modern tennis before he was even born, starting in 1968 with Pancho Segura at the Beverly Hills Tennis Club. And of course I saw with my own eyes the ball slow down, losing more than half the speed. It was a given on the tour, always accepted by the touring players who stalked the ball. Not a precise measurement, but awareness non-the-less.
For those interested in comparing what he says in the thread Does Modern Tennis Exist? with my publications, check out my free 1989/1992 book:
www.tennisteacher.com/eBook.html
I personally don't understand why he comes to this thread to argue non-sequitur with other posters, unless he feels threatened by the array of technical data addressed here, feeling that it could be helpful to the reader and thus improve my status as a coach on TalkTennis, and wants this thread to be removed.
Wouldn't you agree that it is better if he posts in his own thread his conclusions and opinions? Wouldn't it be beneficial to the visitor if other great coaches such a Nick Bollettieri, Paul Anacone, Rick Macci, and more would open their own thread and post some of their knowledge?
I agree that my techniques, books and DVDs are the most radical departure from conventional coaching ever seen. Why have I adopted and published them?
Because they work !!!!!! Over 30,000 coaches and players have bought my DVDs, and more my books.
How does an individual wanting to be scientific ever fail to be so? He fails to be scientific by failing to apply logic. When one of his considerations fails to be a fact the whole string falls apart. It is one thing for a premise to be counter-intuitive, it is another thing for a premise to be false. This happens in tennis coaching as well.
I identified in my 1989 book 21 misconceptions that derail performance in this beautiful game. Some of them, as I see even from my detractors, have been overcome. Still, the industry has failed to make the game as simple as it can be. Rather than throwing false data overboard, justifications and compensations run galore.
An unfortunate result is that better players are counseled to compensate as well, in order to find invisible solutions to the equally invisible but frustrating failures to advance to the level they seek.
So, what is the solution?
Part of the answer lies in identifying and utilizing the so-called scientific method* accurately, with objective observation and experimentation unclouded by pre-conceived theory or agenda. Another contributing solution is having more positive, more famous coaches posting on TalkTennis. They may differ in opinion, but I say: "Bring It On".
Definitions:
scientific method - a method of research in which a problem is identified, relevant data gathered, a hypothesis is formulated from these data, and the hypothesis is empirically tested.
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I guess we have to take your word that you were teaching 'modern' in 1968 since like so many of your assertions there is no empirical 'scientific' proof of it. I have to ask, has your teaching evolved at all since 1968 and if so how has it--if not it can't be called 'modern' can it? Nothing that happened 45 years ago can still be considered 'modern'--nothing. So what exactly is your definition of 'modern'?
FWIW, since we're dropping names (which you LOVE to do), I went to Segura when I was in college (I played for an NCAA National Championship team, played pro tennis, and currently coach all over the world) when he was the pro at La Costa (well after his time with you at the BHTC) and he did not teach like you. Prior to that I took a few private lessons from Pancho Gonzalez, who you claim to base at least some of your teachings on, and again he did not play or teach like you. And neither of them hit primarily open stance, semi-western, windshield-wiper, sudden 'yank across' forehands (Segura in fact hit his forehand with 2 hands). Gonzalez very rarely, if ever, hit topspin backhands. So where does the 'modern' fit in?
So again, what exactly is your defintion of 'modern'? And what exactly are the current crop of Americans doing that is not 'modern' and holding them back (be specific)? Maybe that would clear a lot of things up.
(I'm going ignore all responses from the minions, peons, worshippers & wannabes--as should everyone).
And none of the 'more famous coaches' would ever bother to post here for the simple reason that they just don't have to--their work, their influence and their results speak for themselves. They don't need to constantly post links to their website or Youtube like you apparently need to. I'm actually surprised someone of your 'legendary stature' (???) would find this little forum so important to you. That alone says a lot...
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Wegner
Rookie
Well, JW, I preached, in 1968, open stance, topspin, stalking the ball, finishing across the opposite shoulder. In 1971 I started putting a string 3 ft. over the net to promote topspin, I used this in Spain in 1973. In Brazil in the 1980s I experimented by putting the string 5 ft over the net, and I emphasized waiting for the ball to emphasize the Zone, always testing, seeing what gave out the best results. In 1989 I published my first book, "Tennis in 2 Hours" (a name that the Germans called me when I coached there in the 80s). I gave a copy of the book at the 1989 Sunshine Cup to the Russian coach, for the Russian Tennis Federation. Bud Collins confirmed the next year, on his first trip to Moscow that coaches there loved it and asked him for more copies. I learned from a Belgrade coach that is now in Australia that my 1989 book was in Belgrade in 1991 and well received by coaches.
Then came the 1990s, and for four years I participated with instruction in more than 100 New Tennis Magazine shows, and we sold DVDs with that instruction through the TV show. From 1994 to 2000 I worked for ESPN International as an ATP, Australian Open and French Open commentator. I started emphasizing hitting on the lower part of the strings for topspin. I then commented for another channel PSN, in 1992 for the whole year, doing Wimbledon.
I retired from broadcasting in December 2000 and dedicated my time to promote my modern tennis videos (the term came up in 1991 as a friend of mine started doing surveys for me in Boca Raton and I started using it, and Brad Holbrook said in a New Tennis Magazine TV show that I was "the father of modern tennis"). In the 2000s I started emphasizing more and more pulling across instead of just swinging across and I added two more videos in 2006 and 2007. Then I started to visit Europe again (where I had played so much in the 1960s), meeting with old friends that were now coaches (Tony Roche in Rome, Angel Gimenez and Pato Alvarez in Barcelona, and in England meeting with David Lloyd and laying out teaching his main Next Generation clubs top coaches the system, plus seminars in Belgium, Holland and Finland, with great reception).
Next, in 2008, 2009 and 2010 producing 4 more DVDs, the series Tennis Into the Future, I just authored a new DVD, The Best of Oscar, a compilation, stroke by stroke of my most salient video segments, and I am on the process of writing a new book. I know my methodology is quite controversial and revolutionary, but it is a real good service to kids and public at large.
This is a long answer to your question, but also need to say that Segura played open stance two-handed forehands which was a bullet, and I did not teach like he taught, neither like Gonzalez, I taught like Segura and Gonzales played, not how they taught, although Gonzales forehand was a bit continental and not his forte. But Gonzalez serve, his slice approach, his volleys were a beauty to behold. I also studied/copied, some of the best strokes of all time, including the modern players. You must have witnessed, being a pro player and now a coach, some of the incredible shotmaking of many champions and I am lucky to have witnessed the evolutions that the game took and proud to be a part of that.
Finally, to answer your question specifically, American coaches stress to play forehands semi-open, which is a bit less efficient than the open stance for pulling across, and, perhaps for that reason, they are not geting that much action on the ball. They are also not tracking the ball long enough. Other than that, the USA has some fantastic prospects. I would say, encourage them to yank the ball up and across. When you get the feel, the harder you hit, the more the ball goes in.
I wish you a very Happy New Year and the best in your endeavors as a coach and in life. I am 73 years old, semi-retired, enjoying life myself, and loving every day. Occasionally I have posted in Talk Tennis, and thought starting my own thread to post tips would be a fun thing to do. I have the time, and a ton of materials to post.
Best, Oscar
You still didn't answer my questions, but then I really didn't expect you would. But in a way that in itself does answer them.
I'm well aware how lucky I've been to have interacted with some of the game's greats like Gonzalez and Segura, to have played (sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing) in pressure situations, to have seen some amazing, almost superhuman, shot making as a spectator, coach and player (unfortunately sometimes too often against me), to have been able to travel, to have been able to meet many high-profile celebrities, and now to be able to help people play and love this game as I do. It's just that my experience differs from yours--in some cases by miles. It's because of my passion for the game that I have such strong feelings.
I thank you for the kind wishes, and I wish you the same--after all we are both very lucky to be doing something we love. We just do so in very different ways--and I'm not talking just about technique. You'll note that I have never once linked my website, Youtube, or testimonials to anything I've ever posted here. The only names I've dropped are some of those who've coached me, and for whom I will be forever grateful. I haven't named any of the tour players I've worked with either in the past or currently--and I take no credit for someone who may or may not have read something I've published. Happy New Year.
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Wegner
Rookie
New Tip
Morandi, you are right. Perhaps no more explanation is needed. Here is the tip.
The Frame
In older times the ball was adressed squarely with the strings.
In modern tennis you approach the ball with the racquet’s frame, the upper edge, starting from below the ball for topspin, the lower edge, starting from above for slice.
Tennis today is more of brushing, massaging, deflecting the ball.
Not only is contact longer in this fashion, it also elicits spins and more control.
Power is no longer the main consideration. Modern racquets and strings have great response and generate ball speed with a lesser effort that racquets of old.
Even further, when you are looking at the ball you are about to strike, having the edges in mind increases your awareness of the racquet angle, especially of the vertical angle that determines the height of your shot.
It is almost as if playing tennis with the hand. The fingers have feel, have awareness. The racquet has not.
Morandi, you are right. Perhaps no more explanation is needed. Here is the tip.
The Frame
In older times the ball was adressed squarely with the strings.
In modern tennis you approach the ball with the racquet’s frame, the upper edge, starting from below the ball for topspin, the lower edge, starting from above for slice.
Tennis today is more of brushing, massaging, deflecting the ball.
Not only is contact longer in this fashion, it also elicits spins and more control.
Power is no longer the main consideration. Modern racquets and strings have great response and generate ball speed with a lesser effort that racquets of old.
Even further, when you are looking at the ball you are about to strike, having the edges in mind increases your awareness of the racquet angle, especially of the vertical angle that determines the height of your shot.
It is almost as if playing tennis with the hand. The fingers have feel, have awareness. The racquet has not.
TomT
Hall of Fame
I like this way of approaching a stroke. The racquet is just an extension of my hand. I have total control over my hand, and so total control over the racquet. When I think and visualize and execute this way, while remembering to prepare early and keep my eye on the ball to racquet contact, then I always, not almost always but always, make good strokes and hit good shots ... where I want to hit them. But of course I'm an amateur with comparatively little experience, and am somewhat lazy, and so I almost invariably neglect one of the essential ingredients on almost all of my shots.
Practice ...........................................
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D
Deleted member 369227
Guest
Good point, it is this video, towards the end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0dldQUtRbo
It looks like he truly believes that he actually snaps his wrist, while in practice he clearly pronates, not snaps. Regardless, somebody apparently used "wrist snapping" as a way to teach him how to improve his serve.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
A classic Wegner Tactic
To All,
So I have been castigated for daring to post in this Wegnerite thread. Is there anyone here that is not too brainwashed to note the sequence of events?
Wegner copied one of my posts and inserted it in toto here along with a series of weak and evasive responses.
I feel I have the right to respond to that tactic and will continue to if--or if I just happen to feel like it for that matter.
To All,
So I have been castigated for daring to post in this Wegnerite thread. Is there anyone here that is not too brainwashed to note the sequence of events?
Wegner copied one of my posts and inserted it in toto here along with a series of weak and evasive responses.
I feel I have the right to respond to that tactic and will continue to if--or if I just happen to feel like it for that matter.
treblings
Hall of Fame
of course you can get better as a player watching videos. as long as you realize that there is something of value presented in those videos, that is worth trying out for yourself and could improve your own game.
than you need to apply yourself to the task and practice, practice,....
arche3
Banned
of course you can get better as a player watching videos. as long as you realize that there is something of value presented in those videos, that is worth trying out for yourself and could improve your own game.
than you need to apply yourself to the task and practice, practice,....
I'm not saying video is not valid. Have you never videod yourself and then said wtf? I never knew OK I had that hitch at the take back? My point is you can watch all the videos you want at however millions of frame rate. And try to emulate it. But you need someone to be on court with you and actually tell you what you are actually doing vs what you think your doing.
I have personal experience with this. After 20+ years off from tennis when I took it up again I got decent pretty fast. After 2 or 3 years my friend asked me "did you know you had a hitch in the trophy position?". What? I had watched a lot of slow mo video trying to do all the current instruction. Studied tennis videos to get back in competitive form. Had good pace and spin on serve.
So I setup a camera..... I had the worst hitch. Lol. I wish someone would of said something sooner. I watched old videos from my coaches when I playing in college. I didnt have a hitch. I watched a video i took the month i got back into tennis. No hitch. 3 years later after serious study of high speed video I had this weird hitch.
How did I fix it? I set up a camera once a week during ,my serve practice and looked at the video after every 5 serves. Made corrections based on what I saw and used shadow swings to build new muscle memory. Watched the serve doctors advice on how to rebuild a serve. One year later my serve is better than ever and hitch is gone. Thanks to video!
Wegner
Rookie
Quote:
Originally Posted by arche3
Have you guys seen the video of Djokovic teaching how to serve? He says its all in the wrist snap. High speed video of top pros show its really not about snapping the wrist. But that is what djokos coach used to elicit a certain performance from him. So djoko thinks its because he snaps his wrists.
That is why coaching tennis is so interesting. It's almost like being the student, looking at things from their viewpoint, and then explain things with full understanding of the impact you are going to have for the things that the student wants achieved. So, if I am teaching a kid and he says "I want to play like Roger Federer", I acknowledge him and show him what Federer does and how to copy him. If he says he wants to play like Rafa, then Rafa is the model, and so on. It used to kill me when I watched a lesson and the kid said: "I want to play like Andre Agassi", and the coach teaching him would say, "you can't do that". "First you need to learn sideways, racquet back towards the fence, step into the ball with your left foot, hit and finish towards the target". I even heard a coach say to a kid, after a similar can't do message: "When you get good, then you can copy Agassi".
Kids deserve better than that. Thankfully, coaching has improved dramatically, and I think I achieved quite some success presenting this viewpoint, especially through the ESPN International "Play Like the Pros" Tips, with billions of impressions in more than 150 countries, and my videos and books.
Happy New Year for everyone! And for a reflection of very sad things we still need to solve, here is a link to a John Lennon song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4Uu0OlmTg
Originally Posted by arche3
Have you guys seen the video of Djokovic teaching how to serve? He says its all in the wrist snap. High speed video of top pros show its really not about snapping the wrist. But that is what djokos coach used to elicit a certain performance from him. So djoko thinks its because he snaps his wrists.
That is why coaching tennis is so interesting. It's almost like being the student, looking at things from their viewpoint, and then explain things with full understanding of the impact you are going to have for the things that the student wants achieved. So, if I am teaching a kid and he says "I want to play like Roger Federer", I acknowledge him and show him what Federer does and how to copy him. If he says he wants to play like Rafa, then Rafa is the model, and so on. It used to kill me when I watched a lesson and the kid said: "I want to play like Andre Agassi", and the coach teaching him would say, "you can't do that". "First you need to learn sideways, racquet back towards the fence, step into the ball with your left foot, hit and finish towards the target". I even heard a coach say to a kid, after a similar can't do message: "When you get good, then you can copy Agassi".
Kids deserve better than that. Thankfully, coaching has improved dramatically, and I think I achieved quite some success presenting this viewpoint, especially through the ESPN International "Play Like the Pros" Tips, with billions of impressions in more than 150 countries, and my videos and books.
Happy New Year for everyone! And for a reflection of very sad things we still need to solve, here is a link to a John Lennon song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4Uu0OlmTg
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Wegner
Rookie
Tennis Tip
It’s All Feel
The ball stays on the racquet a few milliseconds if you hit flat, longer if you brush across.
To optimize your focus on feel it is better to maximize your sensations on a longer time span.
I recommend to focus on the feel of the hand at the ball contact and at the finish, when the racquet is already pointing behind you, getting the sensation of acceleration between one and the other.
This way you become aware of the connection between the feel of the ball, the finish, and the resulting placement of the ball.
Racquet head speed at the top level is greatest closer to the end than at the impact, which tells the intention of the player to go towards the stroke’s end.
Tracking the ball as if going to catch with your hand, not your racquet, is another simple way to facilitate your strike.
Rather than preparing early, track the ball with the racquet on both hands as long as possible, then go back and forth with your dominant hand alone for your swing.
You don’t need to swat at the ball.
Find it easily in front, while accelerating up and across. You’ll see it speed up with great control.
_______________________________________________
The Finish
There is a good drill that works marvelously on shaping groundstrokes.
On the forehand finish, touch the left cheek with the back of your right hand.
On the two-handed backhand, touch your right cheek with the back of your left hand.
The butt of the racquet will be pointing towards where you aimed the shot.
Do it gently but consistently. It will improve your stroke.
_______________________________________________
The Outside Foot
On groundstrokes, landing on the outside foot has several virtues:
1) you stop your run,
2) you are more balanced than otherwise,
3) it helps you turn back and power your shot,
4) you recover and cover the court you left open much faster.
Learn to pivot on the ball of the outside foot and you’ll handle the tennis ball in a better way.
_______________________________________________
Stay in the Present
When you are playing tennis, avoid thinking.
Just look.
It’s almost as if immersed in a stupor.
In this regard, tennis is a very special sport.
It has its own modus operandi, its own Zone.
Once the ball is in play, you can’t really plan for the future.
You have to adjust, to be capable of adjusting, minute to minute, millisecond to millisecond, to the path and changing velocity of the ball.
If you go into the future, you rush.
If you go to the past, you get distracted.
Watch the ball and stay in present time.
______________________________________________
Delay
Do you want to play like the pros?
Don’t take the racquet back as soon as possible.
Delay your backswing. Use your non-playing hand as a holder, as a restraint.
Look at the ball exceptionally well AFTER THE BOUNCE.
Track the ball with the hand, as if going to catch it.
Find it slowly and then accelerate up and across and end up with the hand over the shoulder, with the butt of the racquet pointing to the net (like Djokovic and Murray).
If you want natural footwork, do drills around a cone (turning from behind, as in a figure eight).
It’s easy to put together. Tennis can be a very natural sport.
______________________________________________
A Gentle Touch
When warming up or having a light practice, it is best to touch the ball, rather than hitting it, but emphasizing lifting it two or three feet over the net.
Tennis is a vertical game, much more than horizontal.
Gravity is the main force you are fighting.
Further, the ball is only a bit over 2 ounces in weight, while your body and racquet combined are perhaps one thousand times heavier.
Warm up gently, immersed in feel and control rather than power, and you’ll play later a very beautiful game.
It’s All Feel
The ball stays on the racquet a few milliseconds if you hit flat, longer if you brush across.
To optimize your focus on feel it is better to maximize your sensations on a longer time span.
I recommend to focus on the feel of the hand at the ball contact and at the finish, when the racquet is already pointing behind you, getting the sensation of acceleration between one and the other.
This way you become aware of the connection between the feel of the ball, the finish, and the resulting placement of the ball.
Racquet head speed at the top level is greatest closer to the end than at the impact, which tells the intention of the player to go towards the stroke’s end.
Tracking the ball as if going to catch with your hand, not your racquet, is another simple way to facilitate your strike.
Rather than preparing early, track the ball with the racquet on both hands as long as possible, then go back and forth with your dominant hand alone for your swing.
You don’t need to swat at the ball.
Find it easily in front, while accelerating up and across. You’ll see it speed up with great control.
_______________________________________________
The Finish
There is a good drill that works marvelously on shaping groundstrokes.
On the forehand finish, touch the left cheek with the back of your right hand.
On the two-handed backhand, touch your right cheek with the back of your left hand.
The butt of the racquet will be pointing towards where you aimed the shot.
Do it gently but consistently. It will improve your stroke.
_______________________________________________
The Outside Foot
On groundstrokes, landing on the outside foot has several virtues:
1) you stop your run,
2) you are more balanced than otherwise,
3) it helps you turn back and power your shot,
4) you recover and cover the court you left open much faster.
Learn to pivot on the ball of the outside foot and you’ll handle the tennis ball in a better way.
_______________________________________________
Stay in the Present
When you are playing tennis, avoid thinking.
Just look.
It’s almost as if immersed in a stupor.
In this regard, tennis is a very special sport.
It has its own modus operandi, its own Zone.
Once the ball is in play, you can’t really plan for the future.
You have to adjust, to be capable of adjusting, minute to minute, millisecond to millisecond, to the path and changing velocity of the ball.
If you go into the future, you rush.
If you go to the past, you get distracted.
Watch the ball and stay in present time.
______________________________________________
Delay
Do you want to play like the pros?
Don’t take the racquet back as soon as possible.
Delay your backswing. Use your non-playing hand as a holder, as a restraint.
Look at the ball exceptionally well AFTER THE BOUNCE.
Track the ball with the hand, as if going to catch it.
Find it slowly and then accelerate up and across and end up with the hand over the shoulder, with the butt of the racquet pointing to the net (like Djokovic and Murray).
If you want natural footwork, do drills around a cone (turning from behind, as in a figure eight).
It’s easy to put together. Tennis can be a very natural sport.
______________________________________________
A Gentle Touch
When warming up or having a light practice, it is best to touch the ball, rather than hitting it, but emphasizing lifting it two or three feet over the net.
Tennis is a vertical game, much more than horizontal.
Gravity is the main force you are fighting.
Further, the ball is only a bit over 2 ounces in weight, while your body and racquet combined are perhaps one thousand times heavier.
Warm up gently, immersed in feel and control rather than power, and you’ll play later a very beautiful game.
Wegner
Rookie
Brushing the ball across will lead to that famous inside out left to right curve. There is also an upward component, but just dropping the racquet below the ball to approach it and pulling the racquet towards you and the finish will naturally induce the windshield wiper lift as well.
TomT
Hall of Fame
I think you both have a lot to offer to any tennis player who sincerely wants to improve and is willing to do the necessary work to improve.
I don't pay attention to squabbles over instructional approaches. I take into account what somebody has to say. If it makes sense to me, then I experiment with the suggestions/instructions.
TomT
Hall of Fame
I'm sometimes able to do this on both forehand and backhand shots, and I'm just a very low level competitor.
Also liked all your tips from post #135. The most important thing for me, it seems, is to just keep my mind quiet and focused on the now, and relax. When I do that, then I play much better.
T
TCF
Guest
================================
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some nice tips above from Oscar... my 2 cents below on 1 bit -
the fact that the greatest RHS is near the finish, is a result of the racket being released after impact... it does not necessarily mean that the player tried to do that.
just wonna make sure that players are not misled into trying to achieve the fastest speed before the finish... that may result in over-rotation.
the fact that the greatest RHS is near the finish, is a result of the racket being released after impact... it does not necessarily mean that the player tried to do that.
just wonna make sure that players are not misled into trying to achieve the fastest speed before the finish... that may result in over-rotation.
I think it is more common for your general player to be fast in the beginning of the stroke and slower to the end. They rush the movement in the beginning and then choke up at the finish in hopes the ball goes in. I have found by really working on correcting this rhythm, my strokes and serve really came together.
treblings
Hall of Fame
thanks for the good tips, Oscar
some thoughts
the finish
seems like a really good drill. i´ll try this with a particular student of mine who struggles in this respect.
do you agree that tip is more geared towards beginners?
the outside foot
sometimes it looks from the outside as if you don´t care about footwork at all. good to see a tip on footwork
stay in the present
good advice in any sport. i feel staying in the present is always easier when you know what to do with your time. could be a split step or a good unit turn, or some adjustment steps,...
delay
the tip with the two hands preventing you from preparing to early is good, but that would mean a unit turn is o.k., right?
happy New Year Oscar, thanks for your contributions
some thoughts
the finish
seems like a really good drill. i´ll try this with a particular student of mine who struggles in this respect.
do you agree that tip is more geared towards beginners?
the outside foot
sometimes it looks from the outside as if you don´t care about footwork at all. good to see a tip on footwork
stay in the present
good advice in any sport. i feel staying in the present is always easier when you know what to do with your time. could be a split step or a good unit turn, or some adjustment steps,...
delay
the tip with the two hands preventing you from preparing to early is good, but that would mean a unit turn is o.k., right?
happy New Year Oscar, thanks for your contributions
Wegner
Rookie
I agree on the penetration of shots. Less topspin. But still across. When you pull from the racquet rather than extending, the contraction of biceps and pectorals connects the body weight to the impact. That, together with the acceleration makes for more ball speed. If you extend, you disconnect, and you actually loose power. Give both choices a try.
luvforty, when you yank the ball to get more power, the racquet first encounters the resistance of the impact with the ball, that is why you see a loss of speed at that moment. But because you are forcing the action with acceleration (across, for the reasons mentioned in my answer above) the racquet speeds up incredibly and of course you don't intend for the racquet to hit your shoulder or you arm, so you stop it or at least you cease contracting. That is why you see a top player having more than 50 MPH on the racquet head across the body and to his left. (Now you can be a fortyluv)
Morandi, absolutely right. Emphasizing the finish gets rid of the choke.
thanks for the good tips, Oscar
some thoughts
the finish
seems like a really good drill. i´ll try this with a particular student of mine who struggles in this respect.
do you agree that tip is more geared towards beginners?
Sometimes I need to do this drill with a good player to avoid the choke.
the outside foot
sometimes it looks from the outside as if you don´t care about footwork at all. good to see a tip on footwork
I have an entire DVD, Modern Footwork, dedicated to this subject. It's very delicate. There are a lot of misconceptions around footwork.
stay in the present
good advice in any sport. i feel staying in the present is always easier when you know what to do with your time. could be a split step or a good unit turn, or some adjustment steps,...
Also covered abundantly in my works. Timing these particulars is of the essence, so you don't get stuck.
delay
the tip with the two hands preventing you from preparing to early is good, but that would mean a unit turn is o.k., right?
Absolutely, but later rather than sooner.
happy New Year Oscar, thanks for your contributions
Thank you. Happy New Year to you too.
G
guitarplayer
Guest
Oscar....I have your book, I have taken key points and written them down. Since May, using your technique my game has completely changed. I have no fear facing better players anymore. My confidence has been the biggest factor. I now give much higher level players fits. Sometimes I feel like I can spin my forehand wherever I want in the court.
I am no longer nervously racing in my mind a million check points. I am relaxed, just looking for the ball, running to it and sending it along it's way wrapping that follow through around me.
My swing is no longer fast to the ball....like amatur golfers....who try to HIT the ball. Instead, I am swinging the racquet through the ball building up speed in my follow through.
I am 57 and I love tennis more now than ever. Should have changed to this years ago. Would have saved me a lot of frustration!
I am no longer nervously racing in my mind a million check points. I am relaxed, just looking for the ball, running to it and sending it along it's way wrapping that follow through around me.
My swing is no longer fast to the ball....like amatur golfers....who try to HIT the ball. Instead, I am swinging the racquet through the ball building up speed in my follow through.
I am 57 and I love tennis more now than ever. Should have changed to this years ago. Would have saved me a lot of frustration!
directionals
Rookie
Oscar, aren't we supposed to relax the arm to maximize the kinetic chain? If we try to yank the ball, by definition the arm isn't relaxed anymore. Is this somewhat contradicting?
Thanks for sharing tennis tips. I've been enjoying them.
purple-n-gold
Hall of Fame
I took that the "yank" across was more for the non-hitting hand, both arms working in unison of course but the yanking/pulling across was with the non-hitting hand prior to impact. It seems to increase rhs, has worked well for me the last couple of days..maybe Mr. Wegner or someone will clarify, thanks.
Wegner
Rookie
Fantastic! Well done and thank you for letting me know. Makes my day! Now you can teach me guitar! I am restarting to play piano, it is so much fun.
Happy New Year!
Wegner
Rookie
Directionals,
the kinetic change in tennis is a combination of muscle contractions that lead the body to contribute to the stroke. Your premise is right in that the more relaxed the other muscles that are not contributing to the hit are, the more you maximize the kinetic chain and the less counter-effort to your kinetic chain effort you experience. So you are contracting, for the forehand for example, the biceps and pectorals for the effort, with the outside foot grounded and body lifting and turning, etc.
All this is a concatenated chain connecting your whole body to the stroke. You get more weight into the shot, and more acceleration as well to help with the velocity you want to impart to the ball. The idea that you have to go forward to get power in your final act of striking defeats the spin that you want to ad to the shot to maximize the chance to find your target (over the net and down on the court) and to hit a "heavy" ball.
Wegner
Rookie
Do you mean the movement of the non-playing arm to help with the body open up and turn? Many players do that. What I was referring to is the combined action of turning the forearm and pulling the playing hand towards you while going across. But I agree with your statement that the left arm, pulled by some of your back muscles, helps open up and aids the kinetic chain. Well said.
5263
G.O.A.T.
Seems this guy is still struggling under the idea that "modern" in MTM is a current
description instead of the name of something.
Must just be another with agenda, since this has been explained many times.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
5263:
Yes JW is struggling under what for you guys is a wild agenda--called truth.
Yes JW is struggling under what for you guys is a wild agenda--called truth.
5263
G.O.A.T.
So do you also not realize that "MTM" stands for Modern Tennis Methodology?;
the name of the instruction?
Or is this just more of your admitted "hobby" agenda of harassing Oscar?
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Oscar,
I am using the Eastern Forehand grip and I am not getting as much topspin as I would like. My shots have one to two feet net clearance and I would like at least three feet net clearance.
Would you advise changing to Semi-Western?
Or keep the Eastern grip and brush up more?
I am using the Eastern Forehand grip and I am not getting as much topspin as I would like. My shots have one to two feet net clearance and I would like at least three feet net clearance.
Would you advise changing to Semi-Western?
Or keep the Eastern grip and brush up more?
The word 'modern' is an adjective, not a noun. Saying 'I was coaching modern tennis in 1969' (not 'I taught MTM') is not using the 'name of the instruction'--it's describing the instruction. Modern 45 years ago is an oxymoron. And continually falling back on the notion that modern is just the name of the instruction is really a lame cop out.
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G
guitarplayer
Guest
I'm with you 5263. JY should just stay out of Oscars thread. Doesn't make him look good...at all.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
guitar,
I am looking as good as ever. Again, if you had read the thread you would see that Oscar copied huge sections of my posts and made some crazy attempts at rebutle. That's how I got over here. And by the way, I believe this is considered a free board?
It's a classic tactic of his: to do that then complain when myself and others respond to his direct references.
I am looking as good as ever. Again, if you had read the thread you would see that Oscar copied huge sections of my posts and made some crazy attempts at rebutle. That's how I got over here. And by the way, I believe this is considered a free board?
It's a classic tactic of his: to do that then complain when myself and others respond to his direct references.
5263
G.O.A.T.
Might want to get back to that education of yours
Names are nouns and since MTM is the name that refers to the instruction he
began to formulate in '68, this clearly applies....but
nice try
5263
G.O.A.T.
Oscar,
I just saw this from a prominent S. Fl coach.
"I use phrases like,'work the wrist thru the stroke, towards the target,
work the hand thru the ball towards target, elongate hitting zone,
fully pronate forearm before comming across torso."
and some argue that no one is still teaching this way.
I just saw this from a prominent S. Fl coach.
"I use phrases like,'work the wrist thru the stroke, towards the target,
work the hand thru the ball towards target, elongate hitting zone,
fully pronate forearm before comming across torso."
and some argue that no one is still teaching this way.
Wegner
Rookie
5263, I would like to keep this thread clean in the sense that we are just talking about technique, answers to questions, tips, drills, and so on. Others have their own thread and I don't post in their territory anymore, as it could cause friction and get threads deleted. I know readers enjoy seeing different points of view. So perhaps it is better to keep things positive and not point fingers or start arguments. At least in this thread. Let me be a good example.
Of course, 5263, your contributions are highly valuable, and I know you like to participate across TalkTennis' threads. I view my responsibility (as clarified by moderators and the administrator) as different. To stay within boundaries, to keep things calm and within the rules of TalkTennis, and to contribute to the readers (we had over 6,500 views already) as much as possible.
Happy and very prosperous 2013.
TomT
Hall of Fame
Nice post. Great thread. Thanks to Wegner. I value input from 5263 and Oscar Wegner. Admire OW's accomplishments. Will take what I think I can use from this. Most appreciated. Thanks to you guys (and others) for sharing your wisdom.
Wegner
Rookie
I understand. You are right, I always wanted a word that could describe that this is different from classical or conventional instruction. So I started using the word modern over 20 years ago as a description.
And yes, my techniques are perhaps the most radical departure from conventional tennis teaching that you may have ever seen. And it started way before (over 40 years ago) the new racquets made such difference in the game. But it made the adjustment to the new racquet technology much easier and more efficient.
Wegner
Rookie
Raul, practice with a string two or three feet over the net, and hit just above, hard, but with plenty of topspin. Try to make the ball land just past the service line on the other side.
If you keep your grip a bit loose, it might adjust itself instinctively. If it stays Eastern or goes gradually Semi-Western it is just a matter of feel. Don't force it either way. And let us know here in this thread what happened as a result.
TomT
Hall of Fame
I think this is great advice. Anyway, it seems to work for me. The relaxing part. It seems that I'm able to use Eastern or SemiWestern or whatever grip and still hit good shots. The most important part seems to be relaxation and preparation. Relaxed grip, relaxed wrist, relaxed swing, and, above all, good footwork and keeping eye on the ball = really good shots.
Of course, easier said than done for a patzer such as myself. But very much appreciate your tips and insight Oscar.
CCH4TENNIS
New User
Yeah, that would be interesting ;-)
CCH4TENNIS
New User
I only picked up tennis in Mid 2009 and was basically going nowhere and sometime last year, I bought Oscar's Book from Amazon.com and discovered that simply by finding the ball by stalking it, my game just went to the next level. My usual weekend opponents was pretty amazed at my almost instant improvement of my return of serve. I eventually bought his DVDs and am now coaching my 2 daughters based mainly on his methods.
BTW, I also found easy spin by the simple idea of the left hand catching the ball and then an accelerated follow through across my body and over the shoulder for most of my FH groundstrokes.
As far as I am concerned, I have no interest in the scientific basis of what Oscar teaches nor his detractors perception of his credibility. His method simply worked for me
T
TCF
Guest
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