Power Player
Bionic Poster
Ok I feel a little better..lol. I said 20 because I was doing them in 23 minutes. Which is not great, but I am not a good long distance runner.
How fast do you think the top players could run a 5k?
- Thread starter LittleTinGoddess
- Start date
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
It is possible for a person with a very developed "endurance motor" to prepare for a race with less specific training but they will still never do as well as the specific athlete. Good read http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-1.html
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
I am NOT naturally gifted, I am above average for a weekend warrior or couch potato, and below average for any sort of competitive athlete.
In August I signed up for a 5k because I was going to be rained out of tennis that Saturday, and I figured I should do some running in prep for the Tough Mudder in October.
I had not run outside of a tennis court in over a year, and ran the race in the pouring rain, with half a bottle of 1792 trying to fight it's way out of me. Didn't push it because I had a full day of tennis the next day and didn't want my legs to be shot. I finished 2nd in my age group and 9th overall.
This was the captain of my HS cross country team.
http://www.all-athletics.com/node/92630
He was a gifted natural runner.
I was the guy who came along for the bus rides, that everybody had to wait for at the end of practice.
J
goober
Legend
Interesting you actually ran with this guy and yet you think that some (or even one) ATP players could hang with him while he was in high school? I couldn't find his high records online except his PR in the mile was 4:09 in 1998. That is definitely elite, although in any given year there are guys that a bunch of guys in the 4:00-4:10 range. His PR in the 5k was 14:05 but that was done in college or right after (2002).
FastFreddy
Semi-Pro
bs
jolly can run a 5k in 17 mins in his dreams. That's 11.00 mph on a treadmill for 17 mins. Can someone sign him up and watch him run and post the results?
jolly can run a 5k in 17 mins in his dreams. That's 11.00 mph on a treadmill for 17 mins. Can someone sign him up and watch him run and post the results?
Pickle9
Professional
HE'S BACK!!!
WildVolley
Legend
What am I missing?
Didn't he just say he was going to run under 20 minutes? When did it become 17?
goober
Legend
23 minutes is not actually that bad for an athletic adult male that doesn't train specifically long distance runs. In fact as much in awe some people seem to be of ATP players long distance running capabilities, I would say you actually could probably beat or at least stay even with some guys in the top 100- Isner, Querrey, Tomic to name a few. Most of these tennis players probably never even run a 5k race. If you just told them to run one without any preparation some of them would either go out to fast and run out of gas the last 2k or they would jog the whole way and end up with a time over 30 minutes.
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
Actually a 5k is pretty easy to coach someone for. Stride out and pull your legs through as fast as you can without getting up on your toes, if you feel winded back off. Pump your legs up the hills and coast down. As far as distance runs go, it is pretty much a sprint( as silly as that sounds)
President
Legend
Ferrer has one big advantage over a typical amateur runner; he is juiced to the gills. There's an infamous story of him running 10 miles before a match so he could "feel his legs". Pretty sure he is taking multiple types of PED's, his career arc is very strange and no one else in his generation bar Federer is posting anywhere near good results these days. Meanwhile he is out grinding and outrunning everyone on tour. Not to mention his involvement with a doping doctor linked to Lance Armstrong.
beernutz
Hall of Fame
My 5k PR is 17:19, which I believe is 5:35 mile pace. I ran that race while training about 50 miles a week including a lot of speed/track work. Though I haven't raced in many years a low 17 minute 5k would usually let you finish at or near the top of most small field 5k races or at least place you high in your age group. Since I bet a lot of ATP players already run in addition to their tennis training, having one do a sub-16 or even sub-15 minute 5k wouldn't surprise me a bit.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Sunday's the big day.......
r2473
G.O.A.T.
I'd be "a little" surprised myself. Sub-15?
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Watching Oz open, on my second pitcher of beer, already polished off an order of hot wings and an order of Mozzerella sticks.
Saw Mr. Pickle tonight, he questioned the wisdom of me trying to run sub 20 on a brutally hilly course in January.
My response was "Either way it will be fun."
J
r2473
G.O.A.T.
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
rufus_smith
Professional
We all might be surprised by how fast ATP track times might be:
Kimiko Date-Krumm ran the London Marathon
"...I ran it in 2004 in three hours, 27 minutes and 47 seconds! So now I have a lot of stamina."
amazing
Kimiko Date-Krumm ran the London Marathon
"...I ran it in 2004 in three hours, 27 minutes and 47 seconds! So now I have a lot of stamina."
amazing
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
That wouldn't qualify her for the Boston Marathon in her age group. It is a good time for a bucket list marathon but it is an amateur time. By comparison top level high school cross country runners are running times that would have qualified them for the 1960 olympic team....
rufus_smith
Professional
I don't know much about running but according to this table her time does qualify her for the Boston M. pretty easily.
http://www.baa.org/races/boston-mar...ormation/qualifying/qualifying-standards.aspx
http://www.baa.org/races/boston-mar...ormation/qualifying/qualifying-standards.aspx
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
Yea you are right i only knew the men's times my bad.
goober
Legend
Problem is here:
She was retired from tennis and she was training for the marathon. She was not an active WTA player trying to run a race.
3:27 is not a bad time. It is far from elite. yes she would qualify, but there are over 27,000 runners in that race and in her age group (18-34), she would be in the bottom 15- 20%. Remember Date would have been 33 years old when she ran this. I know a lot of women who have ran around this time after serious training. I know people who never did any sports at all growing up, that took up running as an adult that got times better than this.
According to Marathon guide race calculator predictions: A 3:27:41 marathon runner would run a 21:21 5k race time.
http://www.marathonguide.com/FitnessCalcs/predictcalc.cfm
So what do I take from this? An ex-WTA athlete trained for a marathon and didn't do too shabby by amateur standards. Good for her. Could she beat an elite high school runner in a 5k? uh no way.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Balls.
Came up just short.
Guess I needed a second steak with that bottle of Cabernet last night.
I thought I had it when I hit the first mile marker at 6:20, but then the wind took me out.
Smote down by the giant p*nis of mother nature in the form of steady 20-25mph wind. I thought she was going to be kind to me since it was pretty warm at the house, but once we got to the beach it was windy as all heck.
Oh well. In the immortal words of Randall Patrick Mc'Murphy "At least I tried goddamnit."
J
Came up just short.
Guess I needed a second steak with that bottle of Cabernet last night.
I thought I had it when I hit the first mile marker at 6:20, but then the wind took me out.
Smote down by the giant p*nis of mother nature in the form of steady 20-25mph wind. I thought she was going to be kind to me since it was pretty warm at the house, but once we got to the beach it was windy as all heck.
Oh well. In the immortal words of Randall Patrick Mc'Murphy "At least I tried goddamnit."
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
http://www.flrrt.com/results/win132.txt
34 overall, 7th in my age group.
Only two girls finished in front of me, so I have that going for me.
J
34 overall, 7th in my age group.
Only two girls finished in front of me, so I have that going for me.
J
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
J
r2473
G.O.A.T.
That's a very respectable time. Very nice. I was predicting closer to 22-min, so you ran the course about a minute faster than what I would have guessed. And a minute is a lot.
So it looks like you are in condition to do a 20-min 5K, but I suspect a 18-min 5K will be out of reach without some months of specific training. And anything faster than that will take some real effort IMO.
But........based on your time, maybe really fit ATP players could approach 18-min 5K times???? Be interesting to find out.
WildVolley
Legend
From J011y's result we can pretty much guarantee that Ferrer would easily do under 20 minutes, given he's a professional athlete and J011y's just a weekend warrior.
FastFreddy
Semi-Pro
Not!
Dude, I can break 20 with no training or practice beforehand.
I am a 30 year old car mechanic, never-was tennis player, and wasn't fast enough to even count in the scoring of my cross country team.
Murray is an elite athlete, one of the 5 best in the world, saying you bet he could break 20 min is like saying you bet he could break 100mph with his serve.
Eat crow dude and u thought u could go 17 mins in your dreams u cannot even break 20 very lame just like your tennis game full of excuses and lots of talk!! I doubt u even work on cars for a living. Iam not even sure he could put gas in his own car bet he takes the bus no car lol!!
PS: I would kill jolly in a marathon and I weigh 206 and what is he a buck 70 wet?
Dude, I can break 20 with no training or practice beforehand.
I am a 30 year old car mechanic, never-was tennis player, and wasn't fast enough to even count in the scoring of my cross country team.
Murray is an elite athlete, one of the 5 best in the world, saying you bet he could break 20 min is like saying you bet he could break 100mph with his serve.
Eat crow dude and u thought u could go 17 mins in your dreams u cannot even break 20 very lame just like your tennis game full of excuses and lots of talk!! I doubt u even work on cars for a living. Iam not even sure he could put gas in his own car bet he takes the bus no car lol!!
PS: I would kill jolly in a marathon and I weigh 206 and what is he a buck 70 wet?
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r2473
G.O.A.T.
~20-min I'll grant. I was thinking Ferrer **might** be able to approach 18-min, but he's about the only one.
The difference between a 6:30 and a 5:50 pace is pretty huge if you aren't a specialized runner. If you are a specialized runner, I think it starts to get really hard to improve on 5:30 pacing.
Back in the day, ~6:30 was my "working" pace on my 4-10 mile runs. Meaning, 6:00 pace was brutal and 7:00 was "junk" or more like the pace I used on 15-20 milers. So 6:30 isn't "amazing" or anything, but it isn't trivial either.
I'd love to see some other TT warriors take the challenge like J011y did and see if they can do any better.
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r2473
G.O.A.T.
Post your recent race results. Like J011y did.
maggmaster
Hall of Fame
That's a good time with no training. I wonder what i could run right now
Pickle9
Professional
Damn, 65 girls beat me lol. To say I am out of shape would imply I had shape. I was doing good for the first 1/2 mile....
I always get a side stitch or cramp when running for distance. Like clock work. Anybody know how to prevent these?
dominikk1985
Legend
I would guess about 18 minutes. 15 minutes is really fast only the best women can do that. however the demand for endurance has gone up a lot in modern Tennis. I'm sure many of the 70s and 80s guys were no good distance runners but today's Tennis is different.
dominikk1985
Legend
yes but a good Aerobic base is required to reach high Levels of anaerobic endurance. you can reach solid Levels with just shuttle drills and other anaerobic drills but to reach a really high Level you Need a good Aerobic base. you don't Need to be a specialist but I'm sure todays pros have a very good Aerobic endurance.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
dak95_00
Hall of Fame
I've been enjoying this thread. As a hs teacher and asst. cross-country (x-country) coach, I gotta say I would place my money on the top 100 hs cross-country runners over this first ATP player. It comes down to specific training. Now if an ATP player trained for 6 weeks to 6 months, I'd take them to break into that top 100 but still not finish first. After all, you don't get to be an ATP player w/o a super competitive streak and a love of competition and winning.
Keep in mind that the top 100 runners in high school would have pr's in the lower 15s for courses that would be tougher than most road race courses. That's very fast!
Good job Jolly in stepping up to run. I'd love to be able to get out and run a fast time. It tough getting old and having nagging injuries which keep me from doing the things I love.
Keep in mind that the top 100 runners in high school would have pr's in the lower 15s for courses that would be tougher than most road race courses. That's very fast!
Good job Jolly in stepping up to run. I'd love to be able to get out and run a fast time. It tough getting old and having nagging injuries which keep me from doing the things I love.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Thanks mate. I have been perpetually injured for basically my entire adult life, and I think I have finally got it kicked. I have never felt as good physically and mentally as I have in the last year and a half, so I want to run a marathon this year. And also, let's face it, I am not getting any younger. So I will likely continue to run races over the winter, and in the spring.
Running will always be second to tennis, and I will have to be careful not to do so much distance running that it compromises my speed on court.
J
dak95_00
Hall of Fame
I don't believe distance running could ever compromise your speed on the court. That said, if you want to be quicker on the court, you gotta do plyometrics. Distance training is designed to make you fast over a long period and plyos will make you fast and powerful in short bursts. A great training program would be one in which you did plyo workouts on your cross-training days.
At 40 years old, I play basketball against 20+ year olds and I can keep up in a straight distance run. I get blown away on the jumping and cuts but if I work very hard on my plyo training, I can get closer to where they are. My wife got me the Nike Kinect Trainer game for the XBOX 360 w/ Kinect and I've completed three weeks so far. It is working for me right now. Next, I've got to get outside and do some distance running. My 12 year old daughter who is just 6 months removed from ACL reconstruction surgery just ran a 6:15 mile at school on Friday and there is no way I can let her beat me. I'm not ready for that yet!
At 40 years old, I play basketball against 20+ year olds and I can keep up in a straight distance run. I get blown away on the jumping and cuts but if I work very hard on my plyo training, I can get closer to where they are. My wife got me the Nike Kinect Trainer game for the XBOX 360 w/ Kinect and I've completed three weeks so far. It is working for me right now. Next, I've got to get outside and do some distance running. My 12 year old daughter who is just 6 months removed from ACL reconstruction surgery just ran a 6:15 mile at school on Friday and there is no way I can let her beat me. I'm not ready for that yet!
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Yea, I will be sure to put in my squats and deads, as well as intervals and plyo.
I'll just have to listen to my body, especially in the outdoor season when I am putting in 15-20 hours/week on court.
J
r2473
G.O.A.T.
I like this guys advice.
So. how fast to you think ATP players could run a 5K without doing any specialized training?
dak95_00
Hall of Fame
I'd guess the fastest to be approx 17 minutes and they'd be feeling sick afterwards. Depending upon the course, maybe 30 seconds faster but I couldn't see any better than a 16:30 w/o training to run a 5k and I couldn't see many of them hitting that time. My guess is the avg would be much closer to 18:00 for the top 100 ATP.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
18-min or 5:48 pace as an average? Really? And you think the best times would approach 17-min (5:28 pace) or even 16:30 (5:18 pace)?
I'd have to see it to believe it. That seems like fast pacing for guys not training specifically for that. I doubt too many guys could sustain 5:30 or even 6:00 paces for 3 miles. I know your cross country athletes can do it, but they train for it. Tennis players don't.
Well, we'll never know anyway.......
FastFreddy
Semi-Pro
dak95_00
Hall of Fame
Yes and here is why:
1) They are competitors! They give all they've got to win.
2) They are highly conditioned to go at anaerobic thresholds for up to 6 hours at a time (slam matches).
3) They've all done plenty of running. Like I said, my 12 y/o daughter can run a 6:15 mile and she is coming off of acl surgery. I'm 40 and was never an elite athlete and I can go out and reel off 7:30 or lower miles w/ minimal training. They are conditioned to bounce around causing different and probably harder stress on their knees, calves, feet, and ankles for long periods of time.
Given their already unbelievably conditioned bodies, I'll stick w/ my prediction. We will probably never know since they aren't going to go out and do it but I bet we could get a lesser pro or college player to do it or who already has done one to chime in.
A 5:30 mile isn't that fast for an elite athlete. There are many high school kids in every area that'll run 4:30 miles or better during track season. That is truly fast. I ran a 5:50 mile 5 or 6 years ago on my third mile of a 5k according to my Garmin. I AM NOT nor have ever been an elite athlete. I am a weekend warrior.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
I see. Well in that case I can run a 2:30 marathon and a 14:00 5K. Without training.
(Let's see anybody type lower times than that.......)
rufus_smith
Professional
Are many good long distance runners taller than 6'2"?
Many ATP men (Raonic, Isner, Anderson, Cilic, etc) seem too tall to run a fast long distance race in a decent time.
Many ATP men (Raonic, Isner, Anderson, Cilic, etc) seem too tall to run a fast long distance race in a decent time.
FastFreddy
Semi-Pro
true
CATFISH. Just like some of the people I met in person. Whatever I tell them they have done better I say whatever and prove it to me in person!!
PS: I heard Lance will be faster on his bike since he will be more aero after he gets the other nut removed. It's not about the bike Iam taking roids, EPO, TEST and HGH!!
CATFISH. Just like some of the people I met in person. Whatever I tell them they have done better I say whatever and prove it to me in person!!
PS: I heard Lance will be faster on his bike since he will be more aero after he gets the other nut removed. It's not about the bike Iam taking roids, EPO, TEST and HGH!!
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dak95_00
Hall of Fame
Geez! How many more stereotypes can we throw out there? I suppose certain people can't play QB in the NFL either? RUBBISH!
We had a kid who was 6'7" a couple of years ago running 17:30s for us in hs. I'll stick to the fact that he was no where near an elite athlete like ATP players are and he could do it. Any guy who can maintain a high quality of tennis for 5 hours can go out and run 5k in under 20 minutes. Ask your friends who were in the military how fast they ran their times while in boots. I bet you'd be surprised at how fast they ran when a drill sergeant was screaming at them and they weren't elite athletes either. You can't compare weekend warriors to elite athletes. On your best day, you couldn't win a game off of one of these guys....Not even if you landed your best serve right where you wanted it to go for 4 straight points.
These guys have to do running in their daily training to maintain their endurance.
Moz
Hall of Fame
In my informed opinion I would guess that perhaps a couple of ATP players could run a sub 16:30, despite their training and musculature. I say despite because I bet none do comprehensive lactate threshold work as part of their training.
Out of the top 100 many would run in the 18's, most in 19's.
The truth is that high level sports is about specialism. I was a little surprised that Murray said he ran close to a 57 second 400m all out (which is pretty poor) - meaning his capabilities at 400m have probably already dropped significantly from his likely capabilities at 100m. The 5k might be even more surprising.
I'm probably a good example - being more of a 'sprint-type' my 5k time is far worse relatively to my short distance times, even if I train for it.
Out of the top 100 many would run in the 18's, most in 19's.
The truth is that high level sports is about specialism. I was a little surprised that Murray said he ran close to a 57 second 400m all out (which is pretty poor) - meaning his capabilities at 400m have probably already dropped significantly from his likely capabilities at 100m. The 5k might be even more surprising.
I'm probably a good example - being more of a 'sprint-type' my 5k time is far worse relatively to my short distance times, even if I train for it.
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