Anyone else have an eerie feeling there will be a tennis doping scandal unveiled?

Federer20042006 · Jan 19, 2013

I don't want to throw around accusations regarding particular players, but I'm not naive. Lance Armstrong and co. have piled onto the mountains of evidence that all sports are full of cheating. Well, if you can even call it "cheating" given how widespread it is.

If it comes to a point where we learn doping is widespread in tennis, it's also going to come to a point where all the top guys are implicated eventually.

Is there anyone here who is confident the vast majority of the Top 100 players on tour are clean? The more I learn about the prevalence of this in other sports, the more suspicious I grow of tennis players.

Prisoner of Birth · Jan 19, 2013

Federer20042006 said:
I don't want to throw around accusations regarding particular players, but I'm not naive. Lance Armstrong and co. have piled onto the mountains of evidence that all sports are full of cheating. Well, if you can even call it "cheating" given how widespread it is.

If it comes to a point where we learn doping is widespread in tennis, it's also going to come to a point where all the top guys are implicated eventually.

Is there anyone here who is confident the vast majority of the Top 100 players on tour are clean? The more I learn about the prevalence of this in other sports, the more suspicious I grow of tennis players.

I like to not think about it. I like the sport and the players too much.

Jeffrey573639 · Jan 19, 2013

I certainly hope not

Steve0904 · Jan 19, 2013

Federer20042006 said:
I don't want to throw around accusations regarding particular players, but I'm not naive. Lance Armstrong and co. have piled onto the mountains of evidence that all sports are full of cheating. Well, if you can even call it "cheating" given how widespread it is.

If it comes to a point where we learn doping is widespread in tennis, it's also going to come to a point where all the top guys are implicated eventually.

Is there anyone here who is confident the vast majority of the Top 100 players on tour are clean? The more I learn about the prevalence of this in other sports, the more suspicious I grow of tennis players.

I don't think about it when I'm watching matches. Never really thought about it before I started posting on this crazy forum tbh. Not that I don't think it happens, I just never thought about it until I started posting here, mostly because I don't think about it when I watch matches. If you spend all your time thinking about it you'll never enjoy the matches.

Jeffrey573639 · Jan 19, 2013

Well I think if there is such a scandal and it involves the top players i.e. Fed, Nads, Djoko it would absolutely tear tennis apart- a thousand times worse than what happened to cycling if that's even possible. But that being said I also think we should have a bit of faith in Rog, Rafa and Novak and the rest of the tour

hedera · Jan 19, 2013

I don't really care if any one of them uses PED. It would not change my opinion of them because they are all great athletes and I'm sure that no matter what kind of substance they might be using it hasn't miraculously turned them into super humans. There is still hard work behind it all.

The rules in place against certain substances are an arbitrary system. What might be banned today, could easily be allowed tomorrow. So who is to decide what is wrong, bad, good etc.? All it takes is a change in perspective.

I would allow it. Demonizing certain substances only results in pointlessly judging great athletes who most likely would've stood apart from their peers anyway, with or without PED.

*Sparkle* · Jan 19, 2013

I think some people would love there to be a scandal. Some because they get their thrills from the thought of scandals, and conspiracies, and then there is the cycling community who is desperate for another sport to come under the spotlight and take the heat off of them.

Tennis is an obvious target, due to the big money involved, and the tennis authorities don't help by not being pro-active enough with their anti-doping policies, but I still think most players are clean. If I genuinely believed a substantial number were doping without getting caught, I couldn't keep watching. I don't really understand people who are convinced they are all at it, who still seem to follow the sport.

The Bawss · Jan 19, 2013

Can we PLEASE stop going on about Djokovic's 2011 season!? Come one people he went gluten-free, hello? There are probably loads of medical reports that gluten-free diets boost performance by about 100%. I can't believe the sheer number of jealous haters on here.

Jeffrey573639 · Jan 19, 2013

The Bawss said:
Can we PLEASE stop going on about Djokovic's 2011 season!? Come one people he went gluten-free, hello? There are probably loads of medical reports that gluten-free diets boost performance by about 100%. I can't believe the sheer number of jealous haters on here.

Who mentioned Djokovic 2011?

smoledman · Jan 19, 2013

Imagine if it's revealed Nadal & Djokovic are blatant dopers. All of their slams stripped.

McLovin · Jan 19, 2013

Jeffrey573639 said:
Who mentioned Djokovic 2011?

I think his post was littered with sarcasm. By saying "lets stop talking about Djokovic", he implied Djokovic was doping without actually accusing him.

Bulldog93 · Jan 19, 2013

smoledman said:
Imagine if it's revealed Nadal & Djokovic are blatant dopers. All of their slams stripped.

That would give Fed 34 slams. YAY.

smoledman · Jan 19, 2013

Bulldog93 said:
That would give Fed 34 slams. YAY.

Yeah he'd instantly have 4 career slams to boot.

The Bawss · Jan 19, 2013

McLovin said:
I think his post was littered with sarcasm. By saying "lets stop talking about Djokovic", he implied Djokovic was doping without actually accusing him.

Glad to see at least someone is awake.

heninfan99 · Jan 19, 2013

Dr. Zaius: Don't look for it, Taylor. You may not like what you find.

smoledman · Jan 19, 2013

heninfan99 said:
Dr. Zaius: Don't look for it, Taylor. You may not like what you find.

Damn you all to hell!

hedera · Jan 19, 2013

smoledman said:
Imagine if it's revealed Nadal & Djokovic are blatant dopers. All of their slams stripped.

I think that would be pathetic. Taking away someone's titles ages after they've won them is just stupid, imo. If they didn't get caught back then, they shouldn't suffer the consequences now. The authorities should do a better job if they insist on these anti-doping rules. Same with Lance Armstrong. He's been stripped all of his titles and what happens if the guy who inherits them now is found out to be a doper too, say, five years from now? Are they going to continue with the circus forever?

All this doping scandals reveal is that the authorities are doing a pretty bad job, whether it was intentional or due to negligence. Nobody ever talks about that.

zagor · Jan 19, 2013

smoledman said:
Imagine if it's revealed Nadal & Djokovic are blatant dopers. All of their slams stripped.

Bulldog93 said:
That would give Fed 34 slams. YAY.

smoledman said:
Yeah he'd instantly have 4 career slams to boot.

Not the way it works, Fed "fan".

*Sparkle* · Jan 19, 2013

hedera said:
He's been stripped all of his titles and what happens if the guy who inherits them now is found out to be a doper too, say, five years from now?

No-one has inherited his titles. Partly because they can't be sure who the top non-doped cyclist was, and also because they couldn't be sure that the 2nd placed person would be there if Armstrong had been simply absent.

I do agree that if there is widespread doping in any sport, the authorities need to take responsibility for it more than any individual athlete. It was slightly different in Armstrong's case, because of the team aspect and how he supposedly bullied other cyclists to dope too, which IMO is 10 times worse than doping yourself. It's not just the cheating, it's the forcing others to believe they had no choice, and stuff the health consequences.

Steve0904 · Jan 19, 2013

hedera said:
I don't really care if any one of them uses PED. It would not change my opinion of them because they are all great athletes and I'm sure that no matter what kind of substance they might be using it hasn't miraculously turned them into super humans. There is still hard work behind it all.

The rules in place against certain substances are an arbitrary system. What might be banned today, could easily be allowed tomorrow. So who is to decide what is wrong, bad, good etc.? All it takes is a change in perspective.

I would allow it. Demonizing certain substances only results in pointlessly judging great athletes who most likely would've stood apart from their peers anyway, with or without PED.

I agree. I really don't care if any one of the top 4 (using them because they're the most important) is doping. To me anyway, it's quite obvious that all 4 of them have immense amounts of talent that is greater than everybody else with or without PED's. The whole Armstrong thing is a sham anyway. Yes he cheated, and he got caught, but I'd say 95% maybe more are using in cycling. I'm far from an Armstrong apologist, but the fact that he won 7 TDF using drugs just shows me he was the best among users which as I said is probably almost everybody in cycling. So what makes anybody think that he wouldn't win 7 TDF if everybody was clean including himself?

fps · Jan 19, 2013

hedera said:
I think that would be pathetic. Taking away someone's titles ages after they've won them is just stupid, imo. If they didn't get caught back then, they shouldn't suffer the consequences now. The authorities should do a better job if they insist on these anti-doping rules. Same with Lance Armstrong. He's been stripped all of his titles and what happens if the guy who inherits them now is found out to be a doper too, say, five years from now? Are they going to continue with the circus forever?

All this doping scandals reveal is that the authorities are doing a pretty bad job, whether it was intentional or due to negligence. Nobody ever talks about that.

Yeah, they should continue with the circus forever, so drugs cheats know the risks they're running. If Lance Armstrong wasn't American you can bet he would have far fewer followers with this attitude to his institutionalised cheating.

I'm really worried about tennis now, finding out one of the top guys had been taking something all these years in full knowledge that a) it was banned or b) if identified it would immediately be banned would be crushing.

Richie Rich · Jan 19, 2013

if anyone thinks that drugs are not being used in tennis by some players they are naive. it's either being covered up or the drug programs are so sophisticated they can't be detected.

i just can't believe tennis is the only "clean" sport out there. would not be a surprise to me if any of the top men or women were eventually found out like lance armstrong.

als47 · Jan 19, 2013

If everyone dopes, I'm fine with the winner doing it (which is why I can't really get fussed about Lance Armstrong... I think everyone in cycling does it, so the guy who wins is still the best). But I don't get the feeling that EVERYONE in tennis is doping, so it would be a much bigger deal to me if something came to light. I'd like to believe there isn't anything there, though.

dominikk1985 · Jan 19, 2013

I think in the future Doping will Play a bigger role in Tennis.

Tennis used to be a skill Sport but with the slow Courts, modern Rackets and modern swing technique Tennis becomes more about hitting a Topspin as hard as you can as often as you can.

so the percentage of skill will go down and athleticism go up. you still Need the skill but the top guys are Close in skill so that athleticism becomes the deciding factor.

zam88 · Jan 19, 2013

Yeah, i do.

And no one is immune to being accused.

It wouldn't shock me if any of the top 4 had used PEDs/doped

I'd be crushed if it were Roger, I'd be ecstatic if it were Nadal and they gave all those French Open titles to Roger, and Djokavic '11 screams of peds.. but until proven otherwise i'll assume really actually transformed himself completely in a matter of a few months.

GoaLaSSo · Jan 19, 2013

I really hope there is no witchunt in tennis like there is in cycling. This lance armstrong business has been so so silly. The PEDs these people use do help, but they are not a magical winning injection/pill. The hard work is still there and if you didn't dope in lance's day there is no way to compete at the top of competition (look at all the guys that have been caught or suspected). Lance may not be a perfect guy, but he was still a pretty good guy. His best friends and long time teammates turned on him to save their own asses or to get their 15 minutes of fame. How would you react to them? I can understand some of the court testimonies from people under oath, but it is very selfish and unloyal to rat on him outside of the setting considering all he stood for and all the good he had done. I do think it was a bit arrogant for lance to keep denying it all these years, but I don't like him any less for it.

I really don't want any tennis players to get in trouble retroactively. I have no problem making testing more extensive and making it so the field can no longer dope, but it is dumb to make an example of the great athletes of any sport. These people are not great because they dope. If doping was wiped entirely from the sporting world, many of the same athletes would be in the same place.

West Coast Ace · Jan 19, 2013

GoaLaSSo said:
I really hope there is no witchunt in tennis like there is in cycling.

I worry about this too. Some of the WADA guys have completely gone bonkers in their quest to embarrass top athletes. In 2022 I don't want some guy trying to make a name for himself testing <insert Top 4 guy's name here> save samples and claiming to find something. How could one create a defense? Do they have to keep a journal of every food they consumed; medication they took? (and in Gasquet's case, every hot chick he got chummy with in Miami)

mcenroefan · Jan 19, 2013

The only serious way to enforce an anti-doping policy is to:

1. do regular blood testing and
2. Stockpile the top players blood samples for testing in later years (as new tests become available) with the threat of stripping titles and reclaiming prize money if tests reveal a transgression.

These two steps would lead to a much cleaner field of competitors.

TMF · Jan 19, 2013

zam88 said:
Yeah, i do.

And no one is immune to being accused.

It wouldn't shock me if any of the top 4 had used PEDs/doped

I'd be crushed if it were Roger, I'd be ecstatic if it were Nadal and they gave all those French Open titles to Roger, and Djokavic '11 screams of peds.. but until proven otherwise i'll assume really actually transformed himself completely in a matter of a few months.

They are NOT going to award all the FOs to Roger if Nadal was found using PED. I know it sucks because Roger was likely to win all of those FOs. If Nadal's titles are stripped, no one gets the title. Unlike Lewis and Johnson, who lost his Gold Medal after tested positive and Lewis got the Gold.

Steve0904 · Jan 19, 2013

GoaLaSSo said:
I really hope there is no witchunt in tennis like there is in cycling. This lance armstrong business has been so so silly. The PED's these people use do help, but they are not a magical winning injection/pill. The hard work is still there and if you didn't dope in lance's day there is no way to compete at the top of competition (look at all the guys that have been caught or suspected). Lance may not be a perfect guy, but he was still a pretty good guy. His best friends and long time teammates turned on him to save their own asses or to get their 15 minutes of fame. How would you react to them? I can understand some of the court testimonies from people under oath, but it is very selfish and unloyal to rat on him outside of the setting considering all he stood for and all the good he had done. I do think it was a bit arrogant for lance to keep denying it all these years, but I don't like him any less for it.

I really don't want any tennis players to get in trouble retroactively. I have no problem making testing more extensive and making it so the field can no longer dope, but it is dumb to make an example of the great athletes of any sport. These people are not great because they dope. If doping was wiped entirely from the sporting world, many of the same athletes would be in the same place.

I will say simply that I agree 100%.

vandre · Jan 19, 2013

already had one. obviously you've forgotten about the wayne odesnik "incident".

GoaLaSSo · Jan 19, 2013

Steve0904 said:
I will say simply that I agree 100%.

I wish more people did. Too many fickle people have jumped on the lance armstrong is evil and a disgrace bandwagon. Cycling as a sport has lost a lot of credibility because of it. Tennis could be next. Think about how lax doping regulation used to be. There has been all kinds of doping since the 70s or possibly even earlier. Then there are things like the egg and hyperbaric chambers that give a similar "unfair edge."

I'm sure there is some new doping technique available now that regulations won't catch for another few years. Having frequent and extensive blood tests would be a good solution, but I honestly don't know what can be done realistically.

v-verb · Jan 19, 2013

The Bawss said:
Can we PLEASE stop going on about Djokovic's 2011 season!? Come one people he went gluten-free, hello? There are probably loads of medical reports that gluten-free diets boost performance by about 100%. I can't believe the sheer number of jealous haters on here.

LOL too funny!!!!!

Phoenix1983 · Jan 19, 2013

I don't think any big name will be revealed as a doper.

That doesn't mean none of the big names has doped, but tennis is too image-conscious to ever publicly state that any of them have.

dudeski · Jan 19, 2013

Come on everyone! I am sure the fact that Nadal went from being unable to play well for more than 3 sets at 2005 Miami final to being able to dominate peak Coria few weeks later in 4 set MC final and 5 set Rome final was totally due to natural causes.

Legend of Borg · Jan 19, 2013

Mariano Puerta ring a bell?

90's Clay · Jan 19, 2013

It would take an outside entity coming in and giving a thorough investigation..

Tennis doesn't police itself very well with the drug use of its players.

Only lower tier forgettable guys have popped positive for drugs.. The upper tier guys haven't been caught yet.

Agassi was on meth and it was all swept under the rug

FedSampras1 · Jan 19, 2013

Nadal and Serena are certainly on PEDs, both are the biggest cheaters of the sport, along with Armstrong

Crisstti · Jan 19, 2013

Way to start a thread about nothing...

There's no comparison with cycling anyway.

Clarky21 · Jan 19, 2013

Crisstti said:
Way to start a thread about nothing...

There's no comparison with cycling anyway.

Behind the scenes, I'm sure tennis has a whole lot more in common with cycling than you think

フェデラー · Jan 19, 2013

FedSampras1 said:
Nadal and Serena are certainly on PEDs, both are the biggest cheaters of the sport, along with Armstrong

Boy I'm sure you have a lot of evidence to back that up.

90's Clay · Jan 19, 2013

I have to wonder about Serena after she goes and locks herself in her room to avoid testing, citing it was a "burglar" ROFLMAO

I mean there are "studs" in pro sports. But this chick has some freakish strength.

SwankPeRFection · Jan 19, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxzIfPxbdGI

What's he taking? Seriously, does anyone here think he's so "proper" as to cover up picking his nose? Gimme a break!

Win, lose, whatever. But the mofo gets to every damn ball and stretches like nobody's business. No one is that good and can continue to play like that for years without something.

Speranza · Jan 19, 2013

Steve0904 said:
I don't think about it when I'm watching matches. Never really thought about it before I started posting on this crazy forum tbh. Not that I don't think it happens, I just never thought about it until I started posting here, mostly because I don't think about it when I watch matches. If you spend all your time thinking about it you'll never enjoy the matches.

So what are you saying? That you don't think about it when you're watching matches?

dafinch · Jan 19, 2013

Steve0904 said:
I agree. I really don't care if any one of the top 4 (using them because they're the most important) is doping. To me anyway, it's quite obvious that all 4 of them have immense amounts of talent that is greater than everybody else with or without PED's. The whole Armstrong thing is a sham anyway. Yes he cheated, and he got caught, but I'd say 95% maybe more are using in cycling. I'm far from an Armstrong apologist, but the fact that he won 7 TDF using drugs just shows me he was the best among users which as I said is probably almost everybody in cycling. So what makes anybody think that he wouldn't win 7 TDF if everybody was clean including himself?

Well, I dunno, the fact that Armstrong HIMSELF said he didn't think he could have won all those titles without doping is a pretty good indication to ME, lol. That Armstrong is a PED abuser is finally a FACT, your remark about 95% of the tour being juiced is pure conjecture, nothing more. The assumption that because there are a few bad apples means they are ALL doping is ludicrous, IMO.

Bartelby · Jan 19, 2013

Tennis is not a team sport and a match is over in a half a day, so it's easier to conceal any wrong doing and tennis isn't exactly spending any money to have a hard look.

Bartelby · Jan 19, 2013

Lance was always under a cloud of reasonable suspicion so his final admission is irrelevant. In that regard, tennis is different whether because there is less cheating or it's easier to get away with it.

Richie Rich said:
if anyone thinks that drugs are not being used in tennis by some players they are naive. it's either being covered up or the drug programs are so sophisticated they can't be detected.

i just can't believe tennis is the only "clean" sport out there. would not be a surprise to me if any of the top men or women were eventually found out like lance armstrong.

West Coast Ace · Jan 19, 2013

mcenroefan said:
2. Stockpile the top players blood samples for testing in later years (as new tests become available) with the threat of stripping titles and reclaiming prize money if tests reveal a transgression.

So the players have to keep samples of everything they eat, every med they take? How can you defend yourself if they come back years later? That's the definition of a witch hunt.

You should have stopped with #1. Test every player once a month.

GoaLaSSo · Jan 19, 2013

90's Clay said:
It would take an outside entity coming in and giving a thorough investigation..

Tennis doesn't police itself very well with the drug use of its players.

Only lower tier forgettable guys have popped positive for drugs.. The upper tier guys haven't been caught yet.

Agassi was on meth and it was all swept under the rug

Meth is a little different than using peds, but your point is a good one anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of upper tier tennis players dope. People are quick to point fingers. I would think that the common peds for tennis would be endurance based ones. Serena obviously doesn't take those...

Have you seen they way nadal trains? I hope he doesn't take peds, but the guy works his butt off all the time. I think a lot of players would be in the same place if peds were completely wiped from competitions. I don't think it makes as enormous as an impact as many people make it out to be.

Some peds are primarily used for fast recovery after matches, which I don't even really care much about.

Sentinel · Jan 20, 2013

Any1 else get the eerie feelin' this thread might be nooked sooner or later.?

Anyone else have an eerie feeling there will be a tennis doping scandal unveiled?

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