What happened to penalizing excessive grunting?

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

I thought they were going to warn and penalize excessive grunting at the beginning of the 2012 season. Here it is a year later, and grunting / shrieking is just as bad, if not worse.

I seem to recall some dopey exception for the older players, as there's no way they could control or alter it (unless they're on the practice courts). So only the younger guard would be warned or penalized.

I find myself either a. not watching matches with grunters; b. rooting for non-grunters; or c. muting the tv.

I know I'm not alone.

corners · Jan 21, 2013

Last I heard WTA decided to tackle the next generation rather than try to stop their current stars from shrieking.

Clarky21 · Jan 21, 2013

Jovanovski's grunting was really annoying yesterday. I was rooting against her so that I would not be subjected to that noise another match.

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

Thanks, corners. "Shrieking" is a much more appropriate description on the women's side.

I remember Sharapova once saying, perhaps in a press conference, that she hasn't heard anyone complain about her shrieking. Perhaps it was drowned out by her own noise.

Is the WTA so cowed by the top tier players that they won't act or enforce this? Apparently so.

pvaudio · Jan 21, 2013

Clarky21 said:
Jovanovski's grunting was really annoying yesterday. I was rooting against her so that I would not be subjected to that noise another match.

Good GOD it was absolutely killing me. "PREH SHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" after every damn ball. Poor Stephens looked like she was going to ask the ump for earplugs.

THUNDERVOLLEY · Jan 21, 2013

dje31 said:
Is the WTA so cowed by the top tier players that they won't act or enforce this? Apparently so.

Its called business: no one is going to screw with top money-earning/drawing players. Sponsors and their legions of fans would not tolerate such pointless engineering of players.

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

If they can not shriek in practice, they can tone it down in a match.

I think Bollitierri and his academy has some culpability here, as a bunch of shriekers came from his school, IIRC.

always_crosscourt · Jan 21, 2013

Isner never grunts in matches. But when he does it is only because it is necessary.

Overdrive · Jan 21, 2013

THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Its called business: no one is going to screw with top money-earning/drawing players. Sponsors and their legions of fans would not tolerate such pointless engineering of players.

Yeah, that's why I don't watch WTA tennis now. Plus, the same women always advance and win GS. The variety is worse than ATP. :|

slowfox · Jan 21, 2013

corners said:
Last I heard WTA decided to tackle the next generation rather than try to stop their current stars from shrieking.

I guess we gotta wait ten years.

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

I walked by a court where a 7-8 year old kid was getting a private lesson at our club. He was grunting on every swing...sad, but true. Shame on the coach and / or parent for not discouraging this nonsense from the get-go.

Overdrive · Jan 21, 2013

As an honest grunter, I don't do it against certain people or at every stroke. I wouldn't mind the regulations against this.

Anyways, there's alot of kids here that do that as well.

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

I understand on an extreme reach for a volley or wide shot, grunting with the exertion is normal.

The thing with the 7-8 year old was, he was barely swinging for an easy ball fed by the coach, and grunting every time.

Dedans Penthouse · Jan 21, 2013

Clarky21 said:
Jovanovski's grunting was really annoying yesterday. I was rooting against her so that I would not be subjected to that noise another match.

^^^ this +1

Especially since after dropping the 1st set that she suddenly turned into a shreiking noice machine :arrow: gamesmanship b.s.

Overdrive · Jan 21, 2013

dje31 said:
I understand on an extreme reach for a volley or wide shot, grunting with the exertion is normal.

The thing with the 7-8 year old was, he was barely swinging for an easy ball fed by the coach, and grunting every time.

Most of those young grunters do that to get attention.. :-|

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

Overdrive said:
Most of those young grunters do that to get attention.. :-|

So do the pros...you'd think at their age they'd realize the difference between good attention and bad attention.

I suppose it's just a variation on marketing / media attitude of "the only thing worse than folks talking about you, is folks /not/ talking about you."

Overdrive · Jan 21, 2013

dje31 said:
So do the pros...you'd think at their age they'd realize the difference between good attention and bad attention.

I suppose it's just a variation on marketing / media attitude of "the only thing worse than folks talking about you, is folks /not/ talking about you."

Yes, and thing to counter this marketing technique is just to not watch their matches, buy the racquets they are advertising, or buy any of their gear. :neutral:

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

Overdrive said:
Yes, and thing to counter this marketing technique is just to not watch their matches, buy the racquets they are advertising, or buy any of their gear. :neutral:

Done, done, and done!

ehtennis · Jan 21, 2013

Commentators

It's always interesting to hear the commentators discuss the grunting. It seems like they are always ripping on the grunters. You would think the retired players who are still involved with the sport would have enough influence to put a stop to it.

Overdrive · Jan 21, 2013

dje31 said:
Done, done, and done!

That's good. If everyone else did this, the players would get the message. :neutral:

zebedee · Jan 21, 2013

What's happened to penalise the screamers? Why, the punters are turning away in droves.

The WTA is having a hard time hanging on to its sponsors presently. More fool them if they hang around waiting for the nth generation to cease the practice.

bjsnider · Jan 21, 2013

The only player I can watch on the women's side is Aggie Radwanska. I have to mute audio most of the time for the other players, or they seem to quit easily, or they're ridiculously out of shape and so on.

rajah84 · Jan 21, 2013

dje31 said:
I thought they were going to warn and penalize excessive grunting at the beginning of the 2012 season. Here it is a year later, and grunting / shrieking is just as bad, if not worse.

I seem to recall some dopey exception for the older players, as there's no way they could control or alter it (unless they're on the practice courts). So only the younger guard would be warned or penalized.

I find myself either a. not watching matches with grunters; b. rooting for non-grunters; or c. muting the tv.

I know I'm not alone.

Don't you know already? In today's times, to talk about something is to do it.

dje31 · Jan 21, 2013

Oops...I must not have gotten the memo.

Honestly, I'd much rather they enforce the grunting / shrieking rule than the 25-second stalling rule.

dje31 · Jan 25, 2013

Azarenka, in addition to the ridiculous panic attack / faux MTO, is particularly egregious in her shrieking. During the semis, she was at net---shocking in itself, I know---and hit an easy, even classic-style volley---even more shocking---instead of the swinging topspin driving volley that have become the norm.

Virtually no effort required, besides holding out the racquet...and still shrieked like a hoot owl on crack.

At the risk of repeating myself, I'd much rather they enforce the grunting / shrieking rule than the 25-second stalling rule.

AtTheNet · Jan 26, 2013

bjsnider said:
The only player I can watch on the women's side is Aggie Radwanska. I have to mute audio most of the time for the other players, or they seem to quit easily, or they're ridiculously out of shape and so on.

Muting the audio is probably the way to go. When watching a match with a "shrieker" playing, the sound is just about intolerable to me. I think that it goes way beyond acceptable behavior, and in many cases is a deliberate technique to distract or annoy one's opponent.

Bobby Jr · Jan 26, 2013

I just don't know why a few players who don't do it don't start doing major, excessive whails whenever they hit the ball as if to take the mickey out of their opponent. If/when the umpire says anything they can claim it's involuntary.

Either that or, what happens if - after every single point - someone like Radwanska walks up to the umpire and complains? I mean EVERY single point - claiming that it distracts her own play. Surely it would make enough of a scene that it would attract tons of attention from the media - the likes of which the tour doesn't want.

The non-abusers haven't complained enough in the past about this and, without continued public mention of players complaining, the tour wont ever get to the point where they're embarrassed enough to actually get serious about it. If it became the main story about women's tennis during major events they would start getting serious imo. Sponsors would have a fit and commentators would have a field day.

THUNDERVOLLEY · Jan 26, 2013

Bobby Jr said:
I just don't know why a few players who don't do it don't start doing major, excessive whails whenever they hit the ball as if to take the mickey out of their opponent. If/when the umpire says anything they can claim it's involuntary.

Umpires are not stupid, and players would be warned for disrupting play. Aside from that, its just plain childish.

Either that or, what happens if - after every single point - someone like Radwanska walks up to the umpire and complains? I mean EVERY single point - claiming that it distracts her own play.

She's not going to do that, as it would make her appear like a weak child--particularly as she's played so-called "screamers" for so long without complaint. Further, whining about star players has as much chance of changing anything as flapping your arms and expecting to fly. She would not to call attention to herself.

without continued public mention of players complaining, the tour wont ever get to the point where they're embarrassed enough to actually get serious about it.

..or players could do their job and defeat so-called "screamers" to end the possibility of hearing it for another day.

Bobby Jr · Jan 26, 2013

THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Umpires are not stupid, and players would be warned for disrupting play. Aside from that, its just plain childish.

They can say it's their new hitting technique. Umpires wont be able to warn them for disrupting play without it attracting negative press which is the point of the exercise. It just takes someone ballsy enough to make it stick. Perhaps they could limit their wailing to just under the amount needed to get warned but enough that it's obvious what it is: a parody of the opponent.

THUNDERVOLLEY said:
She's not going to do that, as it would make her appear like a weak child--particularly as she's played so-called "screamers" for so long without complaint....

I think if enough bad PR was attracted and someone had the balls to speak out when asked the WTA/ITF would be on the back foot more than they like and avoiding the issue would not be an option. Again though, it would take someone ballsy enough to make it happen.

Relinquis · Jan 26, 2013

A- They do it on purpose because it distracts players or messes with timing. It works. It wins them points.
B- The phenomenon got worse over time. In the beginning people thought it was cute/sign-of-effort/not-a-big-deal/turn-on. By the time Sharapova started doing her multi-tonal shrieking it was an established part of women's tennis.
C- Do mainstream fans of women's tennis fans complain about it? i doubt this is the case. Commentators don't count. They just use it for filler in their conversations.
D- No one will/should do anything about it unless the non-shrieker players complain about it. They won't because they're too afraid of looking weak in front of their fans/opponents.

Solution: Teasing and ridicule go a long way in lending moral support against the practice. Not watching women's tennis can help with symptoms. Who wants to watch tennis on mute without hearing the ball?

Moose Malloy · Jan 26, 2013

I just don't know why a few players who don't do it don't start doing major, excessive whails whenever they hit the ball as if to take the mickey out of their opponent.

Tarango did that vs Muster at the '97 French. Muster didn't shake his hand afterward.

Either that or, what happens if - after every single point - someone like Radwanska walks up to the umpire and complains? I mean EVERY single point - claiming that it distracts her own play. Surely it would make enough of a scene that it would attract tons of attention from the media - the likes of which the tour doesn't want

Navratilova & Tauziat both complained about Seles' grunts to the umpire at '92 Wimbledon which attracted tons of attention from the media. Nothing really came of it after the tournament. Funny that this is still an issue 20 years later.
Capriati also complained about Seles' grunt at a tourney in '01 or '02.

mellowyellow · Jan 26, 2013

Think if its normal for player through match entirety thats fine to a point, but I believe it is so common on the circuits that its only the ones that are a little displeasing to the ear that attract so much attention. It bothers me whe someone like a Serena suddenly starts in a match after 20 -30 minutes and only does it for a few points when things get tight.

What happened to penalizing excessive grunting?

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