Will Federer get past Murray?
- Thread starter Tropikal_Knights
- Start date
6-1 6-3 6-0
Banned
I doubt the roof will be over the federer-Murray match, so indoor conditions won't be able to save him this time... 
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
It's all fun and games until federer misses out on his only opportunity at a gold medal in history. And when Nadal ends up with a leading H2H, the most weeks of wait before declaring retirement, federer will long be remembered as a Steffi Graf Player. Lots of records and great by outlasting his younger rivals
Fixed for Truth.
mariecon
Hall of Fame
I doubt the roof will be over the federer-Murray match, so indoor conditions won't be able to save him this time...
There was no roof at the AO or USO when Fed beat him. Roof or no roof if Fed has his A game he will win. If he's exhausted (as Murray hopes based on his comments before Fed played Tsonga,when he said he hoped they played for 4 or 5 hours) Murray may have a chance. Fed is 31 years old after all - Murray's in his prime apparently.
always_crosscourt
Banned
It's all fun and games until federer misses out on his only opportunity at a gold medal in history. And when Nadal ends up with a leading H2H, the most slams, the most masters shields AND at least one Olympic gold medal in singles (and a calendar year grand slam), federer will long be remembered as a Jimmy Connors or Ivan Lendl-type player. Lots of records but largely irrelevant in the best-of-all-time discussion.
People often describe John Isner as having the most dominant serve in the game. The most important shot in tennis.
oy vey
Semi-Pro
From same article he also said this in 2011
"I don't see any reason why he won't have a fantastic clay court season."
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
And Murray had a great clay season for him that year, but that doesn't mean the guys not an idiot for saying what he said because he is.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Ah the old you can't prove it so how can anyone possibly know logic? Fair enough, but the difference here is you have one instance for Murray, maybe a handful overall. If I was to make a case for Federer's A game I could use most of his peak years. With Murray, nobody can do that.
President
Legend
LOL Lance is the best nickname yet. And don't worry, I have a good feeling about this tournament. Murray is looking very fit (he got HUGE over the offseason, maybe he should be called Lance) and hasn't dropped a set. Roger got his bad match of the tournament out of his system and I don't think he will serve that poorly again. Whichever one of them meets Armstrong in the final has a great chance.
Clarky21
Banned
OddJack
G.O.A.T.
" I am getting closer"
That was what Murray said to winning a major, but he is now very close to beating Rodge in a major as well. He is playing superb tennis, much more aggressive, much less antics.
Rodge's FH is not consistent enough, he will need help from Murray to win. Otherwise I cant see how Rodge can win this match.
That was what Murray said to winning a major, but he is now very close to beating Rodge in a major as well. He is playing superb tennis, much more aggressive, much less antics.
Rodge's FH is not consistent enough, he will need help from Murray to win. Otherwise I cant see how Rodge can win this match.
VaporDude95
Banned
This match is 50/50. It's gonna come down to who's playing better on the day. No way to tell who's gonna win early on.
mariecon
Hall of Fame
Look whom he has faced: Haase, Sousa, Berankis, Simon, Chardy! Puhleeeeze!
How can you even classify it as "superb" when he hasn't face one challenge yet?
rofl_copter3
Professional
Murray has only faced one player in the top 30-40??? What a joke
Ginger ninja
Semi-Pro
Yeah, that's completely crap. Murray's "most difficult draw of the top 4" has disintegrated and become a cakewalk. How dare he not demand a re-draw or swap with federer. Murray's fault.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
True, but also true that his draw has been weak. Even the most ardent Murray supporters know that. Not that nobody else in history has ever had a weak draw mind you.
Ginger ninja
Semi-Pro
He's had the most difficult draw of the top 4 in the past 3 majors......it just hasn't played out to ranking though.
mariecon
Hall of Fame
Who ever said Murray had the "most difficult draw of the top 4"? Clearly Federer's was the toughest right from the get-go. And no one said it was Murray's fault did they? Just that it's a joke, which it is.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Murray's gonna take this, no doubt. Either that or Fed will win.
Ginger ninja
Semi-Pro
Agreed. I like your insights and prediction. It's definitely going to be fed or Murray that wins this one.
What do Rolf Harris and Kenny dalglish have in common?
They both have beards........except for Kenny dalglish.
Prisoner of Birth
Banned
Professor Trelawney right here!
Al Czervik
Hall of Fame
I'm neutral on Nole, but the CVAC/Lance blasts are pretty funny.
I think Roger and Murray are going to wear each other out, giving Nole a clear path. Even if Ferrer gives Nole a tough match, Nole will have that extra day of rest for the final. I think the US Open result was a bit fluky with the wind, and I just felt like subconsciously Novak didn't want it that bad, sort of like Fed at the Olympics.
Ginger ninja
Semi-Pro
As long as lance has enough time to go to the bathroom, he can play for 14 days straight........provided Dr Ferrari doesn't run out of 'nutritional supplements" of course.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Look whom he has faced: Haase, Sousa, Berankis, Simon, Chardy! Puhleeeeze!
How can you even classify it as "superb" when he hasn't face one challenge yet?
I agree with you, Murray's beaten nobody. Much like Federer's AO title runs where he didn't have to face a top 4 player apart from JC Ferrero in 2004. He won 2006, 2007 and 2010 ALL without having to face a top 4 opponent.
He also won a couple of WImbledon's with this method. No wonder he's got so many major titles...
tusharlovesrafa
Hall of Fame
Hell TRUE! When fed plays at his best there is no one that can beat him apart from nadal on clay.Like in Rg 2011 semis.
Prisoner of Birth
Banned
This is hilarious. If the top 4 make the semifinals, the field is weak and it's a weak era. If the top 4 fail to make the semifinals, the run to the Championship was easy and the Grand Slam win is hollow :roll: Great logic, there.
abmk
Bionic Poster
yeah, no, murray was ranked #4 in 2010 and roddick #4 in 2007 as well ....( yeah, draw changes based on the seedings, but not the calibre of the player)
I suppose tsonga yesterday , nalbandian in AO 2004, agassi in AO 2005 , davydenko in AO 2006 , gonzalez in AO 2007, davydenko in AO 2010 were also weak opponents ... bwahahaha ...
Weren't you also saying federer would fall before the quarters this time ? LOL, another fail ....
While we're at it, where's your thread comparing nadal's and hewitt's returning ? :lol:
Weren't you saying nadal's return is better than hewitt's ? :lol:
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
I think you're pushing it here, didn't you know that Fed never played his best against Rafa on clay yet, that's why he always lost to him. Nadal's lucky Fed didn't bring him his best in all those RG finals.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Seedings are tournament rankings that's what matters most. And besides that there are still FOUR majors Fed has won without having to beat a ranked 4 opponent.
Yeah that was before the draw came out. Ah well nobody is always right, I know you're certainly wrong more often than right though.
It was Nadal's BH vs Hewitt's not the return. I'm not surprised a bunch of Fed warehouse people come barging in to talk up Hewitt only because they despise Nadal.
Hewitt's pushing style CC BH is not as good as Rafa's there's a reason Rafa has 11 majors and DOMINATES the top 4 in slam h2h compared to Hewitt who only has a couple of majors, one of which was a cakewalk Wimbledon draw.
According to you Hewitt has a far better return, better BH, just as good defense, and better volleys. LOL, you would think he'd have a few more titles if that was the case...
You refer to Hewitt having better returns based on his success against Roddick's serve, tell me what's Hewitt record against Ivo Karlovic compared to Nadal who even beat Ivo on carpet in 2004 with a breadstick third set lol. Nadal has also never lost to Isner whereas Hewitt has. Hewitt and Roddick are 7 all head to head whereas Rafa leads Roddick 7-3. So if Hewitt is a FAR better returner combined witth all those other better attributes than Nadal that I listed why is it that Nadal has beaten all these rocket servers more comfortably than Hewitt? Not to mention how well Rafa handles Fed's serve compared to Hewitt.
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mariecon
Hall of Fame
There certainly is! Just ask Lance. :shock:
abmk
Bionic Poster
eh, really ? he had davydenko in 2R, tomic in 3R and raonic in 4R ... that's certainly not anywhere close to easy for those rounds ...
eh, I know you created the thread comparing their BHs. Pretty sure very few "put down" nadal's BH ... they just stated the reality ,which is that hewitt's BH and rafa's BH were on similar level
But you were also saying rafa's return was better than hewitt's, which is why I asked where is the thread comparing their returns :lol:..
In case you still didn't get it, I meant when were you going to start that thread comparing their returns !
what a load of cr*p. Have you even watched hewitt play that much ?
hewitt's BH was no "push" ... he could get sufficient pace and depth on it and he went DTL wayyy more than rafa did ...his main problem in the ground game was his FH was not big enough ...
I said their BHs were on a similar level ....rafa has a way better FH, better serve ....defense is comparable, rafa is slightly better ...
I said hewitt has a clearly better return based on actually watching them both return, him having clearly superior percentage of return games won on grass and hard ... based on him handling a variety of servers darn well ( from sampras to henman to rafter to roddick to federer ) only exception being karlovic ... not one factor ....
Hewitt handled federer's serve slightly better than nadal did ( and nadal's returning vs federer is better than what you'd expect when you consider his returning vs the field ) ... you actually need to go and watch .....
nadal is 4-3 vs roddick off clay, hewitt is 7 all overall (at one stage he was 5-1), in 2004-05, when both were playing well, it was 3-2 to hewitt ...
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Clarky21
Banned
The first time Nadal played Ivo was 2008 Queens. He won that match but there were no breadsticks. He's also never played Ivo on carpet.
JustTennis76
Hall of Fame
Pulling for Federer. Throw away the olympics victory out. Murray is 0-3 against Fed in slams. Remember 2008 US Open final? Many people were siding towards Murray after he beat Nadal in the semis. Then Fed fasted start and closed out Murray in straight sets in the final.
The Olympics Final at Wimbledon was the first match in which I saw Murray completely outplay federer in a best of 5 sets match. The best federer could manage was losing a 6-4 set. So federer would do well to try to lose a 7-5 or 7-6 set this time, or perhaps even win a set.
federer was tired after winning the longest set in olympics semifinal history
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
LOL Davydenko is WELL past it, I'm sure he'll have another good Doha run next year unless he retires. Raonic was injured. Tomic is an arrogant brat and I enjoyed watching Fed beat him.
Yeah, sure there's no Nadal haters on this website...
Yeah so another bunch of *******s can troll the results because of their hatred.
Typical Hewitt rally, CC BH x 10 unless he hits the net.
Ah so by watching you've come up with Hewitt is a far better returner. Oh well, let's never mind the results then ok. So Rafa magically returns better against Ivo and Federer. Comparing to Rafter and Sampras isn't justifiable since Rafa didn't play them. He did breadstick Henman on HC though.
And Rafa is 5-3 vs Roddick off clay and that includes beating him 7-5 6-4 on GRASS. In any case there is no proof whatsoever that Hewitt handles Roddick better than Nadal. You only have your opinion which is based on nothing more than your hatred of Nadal, I hope it's not because Nadal smashes Fed in majors is it?
abmk
Bionic Poster
again, we're talking about the "calibre", not the draw when talking about top 4 opponents ...
again, like I said he faced players who were playing better than the others in the top 4 - nalbandian in AO 2004, agassi in AO 2005, davydenko in AO 2006, AO 2010, gonzalez in AO 2007, tsonga yesterday ...
would federer face #4 ferrer or an on-song tsonga like yesterday ?
pretty sure #15 seed stan gave djok a much sterner test than ferrer will .....
out of those 4 majors without a top 4 opponent -
Wimbledon 2003, he faced the other 2 best grass-courters that time - roddick, philippoussis
USO 2004 - hewitt was #5, but had come through to the finals without dropping a set , agassi was playing well as well , roddick was upset by JJ, federer would've handled him obviously had they met ...
FO 2009 - delpo played darn well , much better than #4 murray ever did on clay ) and better than anything #3 djoker had shown at that time on clay ...haas and soderling were no pushovers either ...
AO 2006 was relatively the weakest, but he still did go through an in-form davy ( apart from baggy, haas )
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Listen you can try your best to justify it as much as you want, the truth is those guys are clowns compared to Federer, Rafa, Murray and Novak in terms of consistency at slam level. Delpo is the only one with potential to consistently make and possibly win slam finals.
Djoker in 09 pushed Rafa to the limit in Madrid which is far more than what Delpo ever showed on clay.
Nadal has had to win 10/11 majors by at least beating Federer, Murray or Novak. The only time he didn't was 2010 RG which he obviously would've won regardless of who he played.
If prime Rafa was given Fed's draws at WIM03 & 09 or Fed's draw at AO04,06 and 07 he would win them. The only questionable one would be AO2010 because Murray proved he was too good for Rafa in that one, but then again that was a QF, in the final probably would've been a different story, I can't see Murray playing his best match of the year in a major final back in 2010.
abmk
Bionic Poster
LOL, raonic must be taking lessons from rafa - excuses and injury reports come up after the match ...
tomic being arrogant or not , you enjoying it or not is irrelevant ...
point was it wasn't an easy draw by any means ...
since when did nearly no hateful comments on that thread equate to no nadal haters ? Only in the mind of the disordered !
typical ignorance ...
Can you even read ? I said watching+ backed up by the return stats >> but then you remain the same as ever, clueless and can't read fully or cherry pick ....
hewitt is in the discussion of the best returners ever, nadal isn't close ..you are just proving yourself dumber and stubborn here ...
since when did having a better h2h equate to better returning ?
I don't hate nadal, lol, I think he has ATG movement, passing shots, FH , very clutch and yes, a a serve that is pretty good as well .....
The 2 parts of his game that are relatively the weakest are his 2nd serve and his returning ... Its just reality ...
abmk
Bionic Poster
we aren't talking about consistency here . we're talking about who was playing well .. pretty sure soderling's/tsonga's level when playing well tops that of "consistent" ferrer
besides if we're only talking about these top 4 - fed,nadal,djoker, murray, that's from 2009 onwards ... that's a different thing ... you were just talking about facing the top 4 players in the draw ...
AO 2004, 06,2007 .... fed would've beaten any of the others in the top 4 ... he just happened to beat more in-form players
so you fail here as well ....
eh, no ... delpo in RG 2009 SF played by some distance better than djoker did in madrid 2009 ... also delpo breadsticked nadal on clay @ the davis cup and took him farther than djoker ever has in a best of 5 ...
LOL no ... nadal would be in trouble vs roddick/scud in wim 03, nalbandian in AO 2004/davydenko in AO 2006 ( and those 2 match up far better vs rafa than vs fed, if they gave fed tough matches, nadal sure as heck would be in trouble ) ... gonzo would be big trouble in AO 2007 given he was playing darn well
relatively easiest would be AO 2006 ...
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The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Nah, he got them from Federer whinging after his embarrassing WIM2010 loss.
so past it Davy, cocky Tomic (who has beaten NOBODY) and injured Raonic is hard? lol.
So I'm guessing you're a retired man sitting at home defending his idol and you come up with user name attacks? lol what does abmk stand for?
Funny how you laugh at my English yet you use 2 negatives to discount your own point. lol.
Yes. This proves your point well, great counter argument.
Yet Agassi one of the best returners of all time said Nadal's second serve was incredibly hard to return. LOL.
Hewitt's a good returner no doubt, but he's hardly had far more success against the best servers than Nadal has. In fact his only win over Ivo was on clay and even that he nearly lost.
LittleTinGoddess
New User
Federer in 3
abmk
Bionic Poster
yeah, only federer was taping up @ the wimbledon IIRC and it was obvious he had problems, and that was his worst wimbledon in 10 years .....
except for wawrinka who actually showed up, who else would be harder from 2R to 4R ?
he easily had the toughest quarter final match as well and won
IIRC, agassi didn't say rafa's 2nd serve was incredibly hard to return, he said it was tougher to return than it looked due to the spin
hewitt isn't just a good returner, at his peak, he was one of the very best of all time ...
here is a quote from sampras :
"He returned and passed about as well as anyone I've ever played," Sampras said. "He's got the best return and the best wheels in the game."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/2001/us_open/news/2001/09/09/usopen_sunday_ap/
if you actually watched him play @ his peak, you'd know ...
google for more info on hewitt and his returning at his peak ... look at the short list for best returners ever, you'll find hewitt inevitably in those lists ...
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The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Let's not kid around, Ferrer is only #4 because Nadal pulled out, not because he earned it.
Fed would've beaten them would he? Tell me what is his record vs top 4 opponents at the AO?
So Delpo is a better clay courter than Novak now? lol.
Djoker had match points against Nadal in a 4 hour epic 3 setter and Delpo played better in the RG semi? LMAO he was gassed by the time the fifth started the only reason he broke back was because he is a fighter and found something extra but by then it was too late.
Nadal has beaten Roddick comfortably on grass and also beaten Philippousis at US Open in straights all with getting a break of serve. You are delusional because you think Rafa struggles everytime he faces a bomb server but the FACTS show that this clearly isn't the case.
As for Davy giving Rafa trouble lol. seriously look at Murray's record vs Fed in the mickey mouse tournaments and tell me that has been a factor in their slam matches. Nadal lost to Davydenko in succession in late 09 and very early 2010. Davydenko was playing a well below his best Nadal.
With Nalbandian, he would give Rafa trouble, but I'd still back Rafa to beat him.
As for Gonzo, lol. He destroyed Nadal in 07 but that was after Rafa played a gruelling 5 setter against Murray, at the time, Rafa was only able to back up on clay, on HC it was a different story it takes a heavier toll on the body and Nadal was still only 20 at the time. Put 2009-2012 form Rafa there and he'd beat Gonzo for sure.
If Rafa had to face Baggy in 2012 AO final he'd have a second AO title pal.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Doesn't change the fact that Raonic was injured.
If he had to face Berdych he might've lost.
As for the first few rounds well I'd say Hewitt would be tougher to beat than Davydenko, Monfils would be tougher than Tomic and Simon would be tougher than an injured Raonic.
maybe I can't quite remember it as well, but nevertheless, one of the greatest returners of all time was complimentary of Nadal's second serve whereas you are saying it's a weak part of his game. Hmmmmm, well since you're never wrong, I'd have to agree with you even though Agassi has actually played Nadal and is one of the greatest returners ever, your eyes can see better.
You are going way over board with your love of Hewitt here it's embarrassing. Now Hewitt is one of the very best of all time?
As a #1 seed he lost in the first round at AO 02, scraped past a qualifier in 03 AO first round but ultimately lost in the fourth round, lost at RG in the fourth round in 02 and the third round in 03, at 2003 Wimbledon lost in the first round as defending champion on his best surface. Yeah, very best. lol.
Sampras was most likely taking a shot at Andre with the return comment.
I wonder who Federer thinks has the best return and wheels in the game.
Maybe this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAP2Gn2NqcI
He also made an incredible return right at Federer's feet in that same game IIRC.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I said he'd have beaten any of the top 4 from 2004-07 for sure (when he won 3 of his 4 majors there ) ... 2009 onwards, at his peak, I'd still favour him over the others ...
no, novak is better on clay, just that before 2011, novak hadn't shown a higher level of play on clay than delpo in RG 2009
nadal was a bit sub-par in madrid, djoker could've closed him out in straights there ... only the 3rd set was where nadal picked up his level
no, he doesn't struggle every time, but many times when the big server is in-form and can back it up with ground game/net play ...
did you even check the circumstances of those matches ? roddick had serious shoulder problems before queens 2008 ... he was much better in wim 03
phillippoussis - was ranked #129 at that time, nowhere close to how well he was playing during his run @ wim 03 ...
I didn't watch that match, but looking at the stats, he won 45 of his 48 points ( 93%) on first serve ! LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah, no ... only thing is davy did actually play fed tough in both those slams - AO 2006, AO 2010 ... For example, I'm not talking about USO 2006 SF when he didn't play well at all ..
besides fed has thumped murray in BO3 multiple times ( cincy 2009, YEC 2010, YEC 2012 ) and their h2h in BO3 is 6-9 ....
nadal is 1-6 vs davydenko on HC , huge difference ....
of course you do ...
umm, no .... he'd be in big trouble vs gonzo of AO 2007 ..... any version of rafa ..
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