Video Update (Advice needed)

L

luvforty

Banned
your serve - not too sure but is it not into the court enough? you often look like falling backwards, or pushing the ball without time to release the racket.... if you don't hit it, where does it land?

volley - you don't swing at the ball, you basically push the ball to the target, or collide with the ball using a solid arm/racket unit...... if you swing you have no control, and can't really produce penetration.

groundies are ok..... i think the issue is mostly in the footwork.... need to get those tiny adjustment steps going......... on average pros take 10 steps before each shot, most of them are adjustment steps... you plant too early, you end up reaching or get jammed.

good play overall though.
 
MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
luvforty said:
your serve - not too sure but is it not into the court enough? you often look like falling backwards, or pushing the ball without time to release the racket.... if you don't hit it, where does it land?

volley - you don't swing at the ball, you basically push the ball to the target, or collide with the ball using a solid arm/racket unit...... if you swing you have no control, and can't really produce penetration.

groundies are ok..... i think the issue is mostly in the footwork.... need to get those tiny adjustment steps going......... on average pros take 10 steps before each shot, most of them are adjustment steps... you plant too early, you end up reaching or get jammed.

good play overall though.
Click to expand...
serve- i see it too. It looks really unbalanced but many tell me my serve is my best shot. It always puzzled me bc my serve always looked like that even when i serve and volley

volley- i always thought you should "punch" the volley. How would I swing it.

im not quite sure what you're saying after ........... because you said i should swing, but if i swing there's no control
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
regarding forehand:

footwork is so so. not horrible. better than most I see posted here.

so that's all you see that is an issue w/ your forehand? nothing else?
 
MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
Cheetah said:
regarding forehand:

footwork is so so. not horrible. better than most I see posted here.

so that's all you see that is an issue w/ your forehand? nothing else?
Click to expand...
I hit way too open most of the time instead of closing in and stepping into it? I hit too much topspin by the way the ball curves? I know ppl said i have my elbow tucked in too much but I fixed it a little

btw the planting too early that luvforty mentioned is also a very good point
 
L

luvforty

Banned
MarinaHighTennis said:
volley- i always thought you should "punch" the volley. How would I swing it.
Click to expand...

'punch' is a pretty bad analogy.... because it may mislead people into using the arm muscle in a swinging motion.

fh volley - imagine you have a sheet of glass, and you glue your arm and the racket to the back of the glass, and now you are gonna push this entire unit into a collision with the ball.... in order to do this, you do 2 things -

1) you move your body weight forward by stepping, with the left foot, if you have time.

2) you use your chest muscle to move the hitting unit forward.

try to keep the angle of the glass unchanged (should be slightly open).

bh volley is similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJb954_II7c&list=FLr98Y2RjF58s2NqbYXcr3Lw&index=2

there is a part where he talks about 3 types of collisions.... much better picture than a 'punch'.
 
MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
luvforty said:
'punch' is a pretty bad analogy.... because it may mislead people into using the arm muscle in a swinging motion.

fh volley - imagine you have a sheet of glass, and you glue your arm and the racket to the back of the glass, and now you are gonna push this entire unit into a collision with the ball.... in order to do this, you do 2 things -

1) you move your body weight forward by stepping, with the left foot, if you have time.

2) you use your chest muscle to move the hitting unit forward.

try to keep the angle of the glass unchanged (should be slightly open).

bh volley is similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJb954_II7c&list=FLr98Y2RjF58s2NqbYXcr3Lw&index=2

there is a part where he talks about 3 types of collisions.... much better picture than a 'punch'.
Click to expand...
very good thanks!! my only issue with that guys volley is that he takes it back past his body. Won't that take away a lot of time?
 
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Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
on i/o shots the elbow is too close. on cc and up the middle shots the elbow is way way too close. You're losing leverage, power and control. You also use too much arm during the swing. the body is barely involved. you should be able to hit 10-15mph faster easily with the same basic form you have now.
 
L

luvforty

Banned
MarinaHighTennis said:
very good thanks!! my only issue with that guys volley is that he takes it back past his body. Won't that take away a lot of time?
Click to expand...

most of his demos in that video are against medium pace balls so he had time to swing..

taking it back past body is not necessarily bad... actually for 'winning the collision' against a floater, you have to swing bigger.

give it a try, as long as you try to move the glass, instead of the racket head, you will be fine :) ..... this unit is about 20 lbs (arm and racket), so you can produce some explosive volleys by moving such a heavy unit into the ball.
 
mrtrinh

mrtrinh

Professional
I noticed you're in orange county, if you're ever up for hitting or match play shoot me an email.
 
MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
mrtrinh said:
I noticed you're in orange county, if you're ever up for hitting or match play shoot me an email.
Click to expand...

yes i am and so is yonexpurestorm, but you have no email to provide

@everyone: thanks for the tips. And about the elbow, I'm not quite sure what to do about it. You should see me before because it was very tucked it. Now its not so much but still, its very hard to fix. :(
 
H

Hi I'm Ray

Professional
I used to live in the same area. I still play in OC whenever I'm in the area. Shoot me an email if any of you guys are interested in meeting up and we'll have a hit when I'm in OC.
 
TheCheese

TheCheese

Professional
I think you could definitely work on hitting your spots better on your serve. Have the sliding slice serve, hard topspin, and kicker to multiple spots.

Forehand looks good, most misses are a matter of footwork not technique. Backhand looks pretty good. Maybe work on a slice to add some variety if you think it would suit your style.

Overall, not bad at all.
 
BaboFan

BaboFan

Rookie
Since when did you wear glasses?

you remind me of nishikori with that backhand and whippy forehand but like TheCheese said: errors are made because of footwork.

about your forehand: I don't think double bend or straight arm matters, you hit really good with what you have and looking at the past 2 years of trying to change it but can't really. I would just stick to your forehand and work on improving it. You hit a heavy ball with a c#$% load of topspin to the point its spinning sideways but try to hit every ball closed instead of open. I noticed the errors were from bad footwork>>>open stance. Your footwork got slower as compared to several months ago so work on foot speed.


@ your friend: he's a big guy, hits a really heavy ball even when hes off balance. He has a really nice serve, much more pace than you do but you place the ball better. Kudos to you with the kicker to the backhand most of the time. His forehand is very awkward looking and stiff. He needs flow and wristsnap into the ball

But very very entertaining tennis. Its good to see both you of guys going for your shots and not missing so much. Is mostly the other player forcing the error from the other with a good ball.
 
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MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
If anyone wants to play, mssg me through youtube/facebook lol

@everyone: thanks for the tips! I'm going to be working on suicides now haha

also I had surgery (eye tumor) 2 weeks ago so now I wear glasses for 2 months. Its a bother to play (fog up) with and they bruise my ears but 2 months ill be going back to contacts
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
elbow and forearm position

8f3ca527-a38c-4ec4-b23e-b07ea720c46b.jpg

30740901.png

Novak+Djokovic+2012+French+Open+Day+Fifteen+D7Ii23YE15Il.jpg
 
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Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
use your body to swing. not your arm.
maintain the hitting structure from takeback to follow through. you don't do that all. if you want a good forehand this is a must. otherwise you'll just have a 3.5 forehand forever and ever.

andy-roddick-forehand-technique.jpg
 
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C

chico9166

Guest
MarinaHighTennis said:
Ehhhh help?!! :confused:
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Well, I wouldn't try and micromanage your elbow position per se..The cramped look (with your elbow) and swing path is a function of your poor spacing, or lateral position on the ball. Stay more away from the line of the ball in the set up, and you'll start to get that elbow to move up and away from the midline a bit. The swing path will be more inside out, and the swing arc will increase...all good things in your case.

You also have a clear case of arming the ball, as a result of poor sequencing....Look at the stop action photos that Chetah posted of you. Notice the position of your torso at impact in comparison to DJ and Roddick..They are wide open, free wheeling, and have completed a full rotational cycle at this point..You are still relatively closed.. This is a big deal. You need to fix this.

In your case, the corrective measure would be to start the torso rotation, much sooner than you currently are. (thus the sequencing). Watch Roddick,, or DJ, on video, (they have similar grips to you) and notice how EARLY the body starts to rotate forward. In many cases, it begins even as the racquet is being laid down/falls in the backswing. This ensures, the body will "lead" the arm and provide ample time for the torso to complete it's rotational cycle.
 
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MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
Cheetah said:
his fh is much better in that older vid for sure. everything looks better actually.
his current fh is not a 4.5 fh.
Click to expand...

I dont mind the criticism bc thats how i get better and Cheetah is giving tips to work on it. Is my forehand the only thing you have a problem with? Hows gameplay, etc?
 
UCSF2012

UCSF2012

Hall of Fame
Swings are at 60-70%, which means you're playing careful. Guiding the ball into the court. That works now for HS tennis, until you meet stronger college guys. You're also serving at 60-70% effort, which is why you're getting 60mph serves.
 
TheCheese

TheCheese

Professional
Ok, let's clear up some things. There's no way you can use Roddick AND Djokovic as a forehand models. The two of them do the exact opposite motions during their preparation and forward swing. (supination (A-Rod) vs pronation (Djoko))

To me, your forehand stroke looks much more like Rafa's, although you're not getting the same extension he usually does due to poor footwork.

Rafael_Nadal_Rome2009_APphoto_CarloBaroncini_RacquetPreparation.jpg


I think your hitting arm structure and torso rotation are not what the problem is. I think you're merely adjusting your contact point and torso rotation in order to compensate for poor footwork. If you're cramped on a ball, there's no way you can rotate your torso or extend your arm if you want to make contact.

Just focus on moving to the ball and finding contact more in front and away from your body and everything should correct itself on its own.
 
C

chico9166

Guest
TheCheese said:
Ok, let's clear up some things. There's no way you can use Roddick AND Djokovic as a forehand models. The two of them do the exact opposite motions during their preparation and forward swing. (supination (A-Rod) vs pronation (Djoko))

To me, your forehand stroke looks much more like Rafa's, although you're not getting the same extension he usually does due to poor footwork.

Rafael_Nadal_Rome2009_APphoto_CarloBaroncini_RacquetPreparation.jpg


I think your hitting arm structure and torso rotation are not what the problem is. I think you're merely adjusting your contact point and torso rotation in order to compensate for poor footwork. If you're cramped on a ball, there's no way you can rotate your torso or extend your arm if you want to make contact.

Just focus on moving to the ball and finding contact more in front and away from your body and everything should correct itself on its own.
Click to expand...

yeah, lets use a straight arm forehand as a model. and do you even know what alignment is. And his torso rotation is way off. 0 for 3
 
C

chico9166

Guest
And while you're at it, explain the Djoker vs Roddick pronation/supination cycle.
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
TheCheese said:
Ok, let's clear up some things. There's no way you can use Roddick AND Djokovic as a forehand models. The two of them do the exact opposite motions during their preparation and forward swing. (supination (A-Rod) vs pronation (Djoko))
Click to expand...

Nobody said to model his strokes on Roddick AND Djokovic. I was pointing out that they have the same look at contact..., despite having 'exact opposite motions' as you pointed out. Doesn't that tell you something right there?

To me, your forehand stroke looks much more like Rafa's, although you're not getting the same extension he usually does due to poor footwork.
Click to expand...

Rafa has a straight arm. OP has a bent arm. So how does his stroke look like Rafa's? Extension doesn't mean extending the arm so that it's straight. Extension is something else entirely.

Everyone's position at contact (bent arm players) look pretty much the same despite having 'exact opposite motions' :roll:

60221494.png
 
TheCheese

TheCheese

Professional
It's because Rafa doesn't always have a straight arm. The straight arm only happens when he has perfect positioning on the ball, often times you'll see him bend the arm if he's jammed a little bit. His motion in the takeback and forward swing transition are more similar to Rafa than Roddick, despite having a bend.
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
rafa has a straight arm probably 99% of the time.
show me a video of match play where rafa has a bent arm.
 
TheCheese

TheCheese

Professional
Cheetah said:
in other words you just spent the last hour looking for a vid of it and came up with nothing.
Click to expand...

I'm busy right now, I can't spend time looking through matches at the moment. Federer and Nadal both do this.

Edit: Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU14bDScU8E

I know what you're going to say. "That's just practice, he's not trying". Yes, that's true, but he also does this during a match if his footwork is off. I mean, obviously he's going to do that rather than force a straight arm and completely miss the ball.
 
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Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
TheCheese said:
I'm busy right now, I can't spend time looking through matches at the moment. Federer and Nadal both do this.

Edit: Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU14bDScU8E

I know what you're going to say. "That's just practice, he's not trying". Yes, that's true, but he also does this during a match if his footwork is off. I mean, obviously he's going to do that rather than force a straight arm and completely miss the ball.
Click to expand...

That's Federer. We are talking about Nadal. Everyone knows Fed uses a bent arm often. sheesh...
 
P

pvaudio

Legend
TheCheese said:
I'm busy right now, I can't spend time looking through matches at the moment. Federer and Nadal both do this.

Edit: Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU14bDScU8E

I know what you're going to say. "That's just practice, he's not trying". Yes, that's true, but he also does this during a match if his footwork is off. I mean, obviously he's going to do that rather than force a straight arm and completely miss the ball.
Click to expand...
You just posted a video of Roger Federer in your discussion about Rafael Nadal. I don't know if I've seen a greater fail.

While their method of power generation is quite different, FEderer and Nadal are the two best examples of the straight arm forehand. During practice, Nadal's is the easiest to see, so had you even posted the right player, you would've still lost terribly.
 
TheCheese

TheCheese

Professional
pvaudio said:
You just posted a video of Roger Federer in your discussion about Rafael Nadal. I don't know if I've seen a greater fail.

While their method of power generation is quite different, FEderer and Nadal are the two best examples of the straight arm forehand. During practice, Nadal's is the easiest to see, so had you even posted the right player, you would've still lost terribly.
Click to expand...

This isn't a competition, nobody here "wins" or "loses", we're all just trying to help the OP improve his game.

Rafa and Fed have very similar forehand mechanics. I'm busy right now, I'm not going to go look for a video. I happened to have a Fed vid in mind that I remembered him hitting with a bent arm in. It's obvious Rafa would do the same thing. Do you think he'd try and force a straight arm and whiff on a shot if it's slightly too close to his body?
 
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P

pvaudio

Legend
TheCheese said:
This isn't a competition, nobody here "wins" or "loses", we're all just trying to help the OP improve his game.

Rafa and Fed have very similar forehand mechanics. I'm busy right now, I'm not going to go look for a video. I happened to have a Fed vid in mind that I remembered him hitting with a bent arm in. It's obvious Rafa would do the same thing. Do you think he'd try and force a straight arm and whiff on a shot if it's slightly too close to his body?
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Yes, we're trying to help the OP improve. That's exactly the point: you said to emulate a player with the exact opposite style of stroke. Even if he does hit it bent when out of position, it's not his stroke. What you're advocating is copying someone's form when they can't hit their ideal forehand. In other words, you're telling someone to copy a player's form when it's at its worst. My point was: instead of trying to win your argument, why not advocate a player that the OP hits like the majority of the time?
 
MarinaHighTennis

MarinaHighTennis

Hall of Fame
UCSF2012 said:
Swings are at 60-70%, which means you're playing careful. Guiding the ball into the court. That works now for HS tennis, until you meet stronger college guys. You're also serving at 60-70% effort, which is why you're getting 60mph serves.
Click to expand...
Hey guys thanks for the tips but I've been improving on them a lot

btw I played a match and the place shows serve speeds... my first serves are around 90-110 mph. Second 60-85 depending on what I want to do :)
 
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