Bottom line is this:
Jordan: hands down basketball GOAT (Kareem 2nd but still far away)
Gretzky: Hands down GOAT in hockey
Nicklaus: Hands down golf GOAT (Unless Tiger surpasses him but thats not likely)
Phelps: Hands down GOAT at swimming with records that won't be surpassed for 1000000 years.
Federer: AMONG the GOATS but with 3-4 guys with just as much claim to GOAT status as Fed does. (Laver, Pancho, Rosewall)
Anything else is ****ish claims
GOAT depends on what you value
Me, I value shot making and variety and display of skill over pure physical athleticism and ability to retrieve everything.
Agassi seems to be going out of his way to constantly give circle jerks to the top players of this era
... dont read tooooo much into it.
Its just a slight at Sampras.. Agassi is bitter as hell vs. Pete for taking perhaps GOAT status away from Andre
I thought Fed was declared GOAT when he won #15 back in July 2009. What has changed since?
Bottom line is this:
Jordan: hands down basketball GOAT (Kareem 2nd but still far away)
Gretzky: Hands down GOAT in hockey
Nicklaus: Hands down golf GOAT (Unless Tiger surpasses him but thats not likely)
Phelps: Hands down GOAT at swimming with records that won't be surpassed for 1000000 years.
Federer: AMONG the GOATS but with 3-4 guys with just as much claim to GOAT status as Fed does. (Laver, Pancho, Rosewall) Considering titles, time on top, dominance over main rivals
Anything else is ****ish claims
Here's the official GOAT list.
1. Roger Federer
2. Rod Laver
3. Ken Rosewall
4. Bjorn Borg
5. Pete Sampras
6. Pancho Gonzales
7. Rafael Nadal
8. Bill Tilden
9. John McEnroe
10. Ivan Lendl or Jimmy Connors (tie)
Bottom line is this:
Jordan: hands down basketball GOAT (Kareem 2nd but still far away)
Gretzky: Hands down GOAT in hockey
Nicklaus: Hands down golf GOAT (Unless Tiger surpasses him but thats not likely)
Phelps: Hands down GOAT at swimming with records that won't be surpassed for 1000000 years.
Federer: AMONG the GOATS but with 3-4 guys with just as much claim to GOAT status as Fed does. (Laver, Pancho, Rosewall) Considering titles, time on top, dominance over main rivals
Anything else is ****ish claims
Fed is GOAT on hard and grass, Nadal is GOAT on clay and Djoko is the goatbuster
All I know is that Nadal leads Federer and Djokovic 37-24 in the overall h2h and 14-5 in the slam h2h.
Novak will eventually be HC Goat.....
Novak can manage 6 more HC Slams.
Sooo...you're saying Grand Slam tally doesn't matter? You had to stick that dominance over main rivals in there didn't you? Consider this: What if Federer wasn't such a good clay player? Suppose he didn't make it to so many clay semis and finals where he faced Nadal? The H2H would look much different wouldn't it? Nadal won 12 of the 14 times they met in finals or semifinals on clay. No one is disputing that Nadal is one of the best ever on clay. Federer would have been wise to lose early in those tournaments like Nadal did on surfaces that favored Federer. If only Federer had known then that people would put so much emphasis on this rivalry, even though he's won the most Grand Slams of any player.
I agree.
Hell Nadal hasn't even played in almost a year and hasn't defended a title off clay in almost three years. .. Murray only has one slam, Fed is 31 and very beatable.
Nole is really the only one looking like one of the GOATs right now.
And everyone from rank 4-5 on down SUCKS.
Thats hardly a golden age if you look at it in that perspective. I consider a golden age consisting of multiple talented threats, and depth. 80s-mid 90s for instance. Multiple all time greats, and great depth and many contenders to the crown consisting on ALL surfaces.
Novak will eventually be HC Goat.....
Novak can manage 6 more HC Slams.
Would you call him the GOAT if he beats Federer's HC slams with a AO-heavy HC resume.
Federer has a nice balance: 5 USO and 4 AO.
Djokovic has 4 AO and 1 USO. I want to see Djokovic dominate on faster HC like USO(well, at least for todays standards) before calling him the GOAT HCer.
Why do idiots compare Roger to Jordan and Nicklaus.
these guys actually disposed of their main rivals rivals on the big stage. Something Fed couldn't do.
Hell Jordan was UNDEFEATED on the big stage (NBA finals) Sport for sport.. Jordan has a much nicer claim to GOAT then Fed does in tennis.
What makes it official, that you say it, LOL! Having Nadal 3 spots below Borg is quite the joke, and Gonzales down at 6 ends any possability to take such a rank seriously.
What makes it official, that you say it, LOL! Having Nadal 3 spots below Borg is quite the joke, and Gonzales down at 6 ends any possability to take such a rank seriously.
Yeah, this hype the modern game nonsense is getting hilarious.
People seem to liken tennis to swimming and running when it's a far more nuanced sport, I mean we're talking about a sport in which Santoro can dominate Safin for Pete's sake.
Sure the game changes over time but not always for the better, some parts improve, others are neglected and stagnate, conditions and coaching also influence what is the current dominant playing style.
I rank Gonzales as #7.
He was a Sampras equivalent (dominant of fast surfaces but won squat on clay), but played in a weaker era. No way he gets ranked above the Open Era greats like Fed/Sampras/Borg/Nadal. I also think Laver and Rosewall had greater careers than him.
Oh and yes, when I said Djokovic was "maybe top 20", I was talking all-time. He is 9th in the Open Era.
Right now Federer Nadal looks genius. But wait after they retire.
10-20 years later, let's see Federer Nadal,s status can withstand test of time
like Gonzales,laver,rosewall,Sampras.
My bet is they will be outside top 5.
In fact, only thing that can withstand test of time from this baseliners generation
will be just Nadal's clay court record.
Talk to you after 20 years!
I disagree. The video footage we have of Fed and Nadal doing their thing renders them immortal. Until somebody breaks Fed's records he's the measuring stick. I find it laughable that Sampras will stay relevant, but Fed wouldn't withstand the test of time. This is open era tennis baby, these guys are the new citadels of records for which future generations will strive to beat. Btw u must be out of your mind if you think Gonzales, Rosewall and Laver will also be higher thought of and remembered in 20 years time in comparison to Federer especiallyRight now Federer Nadal looks genius. But wait after they retire.
10-20 years later, let's see Federer Nadal,s status can withstand test of time
like Gonzales,laver,rosewall,Sampras.
My bet is they will be outside top 5.
In fact, only thing that can withstand test of time from this baseliners generation
will be just Nadal's clay court record.
Talk to you after 20 years!
Nadal is by far the clay court GOAT and is also greater on clay than any other player in history on any surface. Djokovic is the Australian Open and overall slow hard court GOAT. Federer is the overall hard court GOAT (slow and fast combined) despite not being the clear best on either slow or fast. The overall GOAT however is Rod Laver.
Here's the deal, despite what we like or wish or try to manipulate.
EVERY PRO, EVERY COMMENTATOR says...
do you know what "every" means?
If you cannot say 100% of every working and retired pro, pundit and writer has made that statement, then no, he is no GOAT...and never will be as he was not skilled/talented enough to win the Grand Slam.
All I know is that Nadal leads Federer and Djokovic 37-24 in the overall h2h and 14-5 in the slam h2h.
No one is saying Fed is a 100%, undisputed goat. No athlete is 100% goat in his/her sport either, so let's try to keep that in mind for now on. However, when vast majority of the fans/experts/ex-players/commentators have said Federer is the greatest, he deserve the title more than any past legends. M Jordan doesn't earned 100% votes from the masses, but he's still regard as the greatest NBA player of all time.
Yeah, we've noticed that already.
Actually, I know more than anyone else on this forum.
Would you call him the GOAT if he beats Federer's HC slams with a AO-heavy HC resume.
Federer has a nice balance: 5 USO and 4 AO.
Djokovic has 4 AO and 1 USO. I want to see Djokovic dominate on faster HC like USO(well, at least for todays standards) before calling him the GOAT HCer.
I would be surprised if he did that. I can easily see him winning 3 more Australian Opens, but not 3 more U.S Opens. Crazier things have happened though.
as he was not skilled/talented enough to win the Grand Slam.
A single season of dominance doesn't offset an entire career. Having said that, Laver's career itself was amazing.
Agassi is selling himself short, he doesn't think he's a step ahead of players like Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga, Del Potro? lol. Let's be real, Agassi at his best would be sitting in the top 3 comfortably.
Did Agassi do this? I never read his book, but shooting hawks for no reason would be far worse than admissions of drug use, in my opinion.Andre the druggie enabler whose 1st wife endured his druggie-induced "moments," Andre the "big game hunter" who'd shoot hawks circling above his house (his roof littered with carcasses), who wore a wig (LMAO!), who went to bed with 28-years-older Steisand (imagine waking up to that schnozzle *gulp!*) .... yeah, Andre, the zen master ...
... whatever .....
Andre the druggie enabler whose 1st wife endured his druggie-induced "moments," Andre the "big game hunter" who'd shoot hawks circling above his house (his roof littered with carcasses), who wore a wig (LMAO!), who went to bed with 28-years-older Steisand (imagine waking up to that schnozzle *gulp!*) .... yeah, Andre, the zen master ...
... whatever .....
Did Agassi do this? I never read his book, but shooting hawks for no reason would be far worse than admissions of drug use, in my opinion.