Shortest presser ever - Radwanska Sisters

grzegorzo · Feb 11, 2013

Anyone knows what exactly happened?

Don't repeat what you can read in comments please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1-Pz4fxH9c&feature=player_detailpage

vive le beau jeu ! · Feb 13, 2013

wasn't there another thread about this great crowd ?...

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

vive le beau jeu ! said:
wasn't there another thread about this great crowd ?...

was it? i'd like to know

Tammo · Feb 13, 2013

something happened a few years ago i think

always_crosscourt · Feb 13, 2013

man, she seems a lot of fun.

Doubles · Feb 13, 2013

Israeli fans can get...intense, for lack of a better word during Davis and Fed Cup matches.

Brian11785 · Feb 13, 2013

Doubles said:
Israeli fans can get...intense, for lack of a better word during Davis and Fed Cup matches.

Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw9HmQRyTVo

But, in the Israel-Poland matches, apparently some anti-Catholic slurs were thrown around by the crowd.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Doubles said:
Israeli fans can get...intense, for lack of a better word during Davis and Fed Cup matches.

so what happened?

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Brian11785 said:
Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw9HmQRyTVo

But, in the Israel-Poland matches, apparently some anti-Catholic slurs were thrown around by the crowd.

in soccer when that happens teams get punished by federation, so if it really happened, FedCup should do the same

Doubles · Feb 13, 2013

volleyandfun said:
so what happened?

I'm not sure in this case, but I saw a clip of a fed cup match between an Israeli and Anna chakvetadze (sp?) which got ugly with the lack of sportsmanship on both sides. When I get to my computer I'll find the link and post it.

jaggy · Feb 13, 2013

vive le beau jeu ! said:
wasn't there another thread about this great crowd ?...

It sparked world war 3

Tanya · Feb 13, 2013

Brian11785 said:
Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw9HmQRyTVo

But, in the Israel-Poland matches, apparently some anti-Catholic slurs were thrown around by the crowd.

Can a player be penalized for flipping the bird to a crowd? Cuz...that's what I'd have done.

Doubles · Feb 13, 2013

Nevermind, I see the video's already been posted. I'm biased, but I support the Israeli crowd on this one.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Doubles said:
Nevermind, I see the video's already been posted. I'm biased, but I support the Israeli crowd on this one.

i watched that video, it seems like it started with Chakvatadze fist pumps not even Nadal can match, which looked kind of immature

Brian11785 · Feb 13, 2013

volleyandfun said:
i watched that video, it seems like it started with Chakvatadze fist pumps not even Nadal can match, which looked kind of immature

I assume that it escalated to get to the start of the video. But yeah. It was pretty dramatic.

Doubles · Feb 13, 2013

Brian11785 said:
I assume that it escalated to get to the start of the video. But yeah. It was pretty dramatic.

Welcome to women's tennis. I would like to say I'm joking, but from what I've seen at all levels of play, women's tennis is more emotionally charged than mens, with few exceptions.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Doubles said:
Welcome to women's tennis. I would like to say I'm joking, but from what I've seen at all levels of play, women's tennis is more emotionally charged than mens, with few exceptions.

of course, we don't have periods

Brian11785 · Feb 13, 2013

volleyandfun said:
of course, we don't have periods

Zing.

But seriously. I think that is probably why it appeals to some people. And why someone like Rafa, (and to a much larger degree) Connors, McEnroe who don't/didn't really mask their emotions are so popular. I have seen some WTA matches that were pretty low-quality tennis over the years that was still utterly watchable (maybe moreso than a decent men's match) because of the sheer drama.

Castiel · Feb 13, 2013

As an Israeli It really embarrases me how bad the crowd behaved few years ago. However, the crowd always gets a little bit patriotic in every Davis Cup.
I do agree though that the crowd crossed the line with the Sharapova incident and they even showed how Shahar Peer clapped and laughed as if she was pleased with the crowd. After seeing that I just felt anger and shame.
I read though in the youtube comments that the Israeli crowd behaved well compared to what happend in the past but who knows, maybe the agas still holds some sort of grudge or something. (I didn't watch the match so perhaps someone who watched it can shed some light on how the crowd behaved?)

Brian11785 · Feb 13, 2013

Castiel said:
As an Israeli It really embarrases me how bad the crowd behaved few years ago. However, the crowd always gets a little bit patriotic in every Davis Cup.
I do agree though that the crowd crossed the line with the Sharapova incident and they even showed how Shahar Peer clapped and laughed as if she was pleased with the crowd. After seeing that I just felt anger and shame.
I read though in the youtube comments that the Israeli crowd behaved well compared to what happend in the past but who knows, maybe the agas still holds some sort of grudge or something. (I didn't watch the match so perhaps someone who watched it can shed some light on how the crowd behaved?)

Yeah. Don't read the comments for either video. Some pretty horrible things written.

Castiel · Feb 13, 2013

Brian11785 said:
Yeah. Don't read the comments for either video. Some pretty horrible things written.

Unfortunatley I already have, I can't help but wonder where does all this hatred comes from.
People there really came out of proporstions but I guess that's the internet (or at least I hope so..)
And back to our subject, I just read an article and Aga indeed said that she was dissapointed with the crowd and the Polish captain sent a report to the ITF or something like that, hopefully this will teach our crowd how to behave.

sportlerin · Feb 13, 2013

I don't really care for the atmosphere of these Fed/Davis cup type matches in general. But obviously the idea is to have some more playing options for tennis, as a team sport and crowd attraction.

But picture an NBA basketball game, how the crowd treats the opposing player at the free throw line. Can you imagine this in tennis -- jeering to distract while the 'opposing' player is serving? Really in these links it is to that point.

I see this behavior creeping into the Grand Slam events as well. I attended several days of the last US Open, and felt a little uncomfortable at some of the American players' matches. Nothing came close to these video links, but the crowds did get aggressively jingoistic at certain points. And the announcers and US tennis establishment seem to encourage it.

IT's just not my cup of tea, because tennis is at its heart a one-on-one sport. It can be very lonely out there not just playing against an opponent, but an entire stadium. j m o

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Supporting your fav player is ok

and I don't see anything wrong with that, and I doubt very much that was the reason for the whole team to be upset.

CDNguy87 · Feb 13, 2013

Had trouble finding much info on what happened from news sources. There's this article:

http://tensport.com.au/news/newsarticles/Tennis-Radwanska-still-seethes-over-Israel-Fed-Cup-row.htm

"Whether Radwanska was referring to political demonstrations from the Israeli crowd in Eilat or differences with the home team after Poland's 2-1 victory over Israel was left unspecified, but there was no mistaking Radwanska's feelings.

"I was really disappointed," she said, when asked why Poland's post-match press conference in Israel had been so spectacularly brief.

"I didn't really expect something like this to happen on the tour, especially when a lot of teams were there and a lot of top players, and, yeah, a couple of things happened.

"You know, it's always sad and always unfair, as well. I think it's not a responsible way to behave," she said.

Last year Radwanska caused a stir at the Qatar Open by complaining about world number one Victoria Azarenka's on-court behaviour.

This time though, in the context of reports that sections of the Israeli crowd made noisy allegations about anti-Semitism in Poland, Radwanska's remarks had a far more sombre tinge."

It didn't mention any anti-Catholic slurs being uttered by the crowd (although presumably it could have come from a relatively small number), but mentioned them making "noisy allegations about anti-Semitism in Poland". That clearly has no place in a tennis match, although I wouldn't consider that so hateful. Also, in fairness to the crowd, after reading the YouTube comments those allegations don't seem entirely baseless.

If there were indeed anti-Catholic slurs hurled at the Poles, then that would be quite awful and justify stricter penalties being taken against the Israeli tennis organizers. If they can't control their fans and this were to repeat itself at future events, then I think they could be justified in taking away Israel's right to host them or at least forcing them to play their home ties in front of empty stadiums.

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

There were anti-Catholic slurs from the crowd, according to reports quoted on another thread, so their reaction to religious hatred was quite understandable.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
There were anti-Catholic slurs from the crowd, according to reports quoted on another thread, so their reaction to religious hatred was quite understandable.

if you say another thread, can you be more specific please

CDNguy87 · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
There were anti-Catholic slurs from the crowd, according to reports quoted on another thread, so their reaction to religious hatred was quite understandable.

Were there actual, objective 3rd-party links asserting that? I mean, more than just the blatantly anti-semitic OP's assertions? And precisely how many members of the crowd were involved? I'm turning up blanks in Google other than the link I posted, so I'm genuinely interested in verifying this.

Edit: I just found this in another tennis forum: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=24342722

Especially interesting is a quote from one of the Polish posters:

"Please come on, Niezalezna.pl isn't a reliable source. Right-wing and Father Rydzyk media are openly anti-semitic and now Niezalezna is creating an international scandal and asking goverment reaction. I just can't. They have no source now they are make up some things like deleted YT videos with racist comments. All they have is: Według relacji internautów, którzy oglądali mecz, polskie tenisistki były lżone przez siedzących na trybunach kibiców. Meaning - "According to report of internet fans who watched a match, Polish players were offended by crowd in the stands." Like seriously?

Other Polish users - stop posting this crap and get serious.

Only thing I can believe in that happend is that there were some people that could scream "one more" after DF, or during a rally, between serves or sth like that. Nothing racist, only some unproper things tennis-wise, tennis etiquette. 2yrs ago Agnieszka and Klaudia Jans had nice, friendly press conference when they kindly explained that it's bothering for tennis players and ask to cheer for your team only. Maybe this time Aga just got pissed because it happend again. That's it. Not in the world I would be reading more into this.

Such thing should never spice up relations between Polish and Israeli, they are far from perfect already so it's better not overreact and create drama out of nothing."

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

Someone suggested the crowd was probably Arab so as you can see the thread took a political turn and then it disappeared.

CDNguy87 · Feb 13, 2013

volleyandfun said:
if you say another thread, can you be more specific please

It was a deleted thread started by a Polish OP with anti-semetic overtones. I'm not sure he ever cited any links, but if he did, it may have just been to those dubious Polish sources mentioned in the quote I posted above.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

CDNguy87 said:
Were there actual, objective 3rd-party links asserting that? I mean, more than just the blatantly anti-semitic OP's assertions? And precisely how many members of the crowd were involved? I'm turning up blanks in Google other than the link I posted, so I'm genuinely interested in verifying this.

Anything is possible, there'll always be a small number of people promoting hate and intolerance, unfortunately. I know right now in european football federations are cracking down on any confirmed incident of intolerance

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

I can't see any objective reporting in that thread only tendentious commentary.

CDNguy87 said:
Were there actual, objective 3rd-party links asserting that? I mean, more than just the blatantly anti-semitic OP's assertions? And precisely how many members of the crowd were involved? I'm turning up blanks in Google other than the link I posted, so I'm genuinely interested in verifying this.

Edit: I just found this in another tennis forum: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=24342722

Especially interesting is a quote from one of the Polish posters:

"Please come on, Niezalezna.pl isn't a reliable source. Right-wing and Father Rydzyk media are openly anti-semitic and now Niezalezna is creating an international scandal and asking goverment reaction. I just can't. They have no source now they are make up some things like deleted YT videos with racist comments. All they have is: Według relacji internautów, którzy oglądali mecz, polskie tenisistki były lżone przez siedzących na trybunach kibiców. Meaning - "According to report of internet fans who watched a match, Polish players were offended by crowd in the stands." Like seriously?

Other Polish users - stop posting this crap and get serious.

Only thing I can believe in that happend is that there were some people that could scream "one more" after DF, or during a rally, between serves or sth like that. Nothing racist, only some unproper things tennis-wise, tennis etiquette. 2yrs ago Agnieszka and Klaudia Jans had nice, friendly press conference when they kindly explained that it's bothering for tennis players and ask to cheer for your team only. Maybe this time Aga just got pissed because it happend again. That's it. Not in the world I would be reading more into this.

Such thing should never spice up relations between Polish and Israeli, they are far from perfect already so it's better not overreact and create drama out of nothing."

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

I don't think you should slur other people and their threads when they are no longer there to be examined and s/he did cite reports, but this event has not been subject to much reporting of any kind.

CDNguy87 said:
It was a deleted thread started by a Polish OP with anti-semetic overtones. I'm not sure he ever cited any links, but if he did, it may have just been to those dubious Polish sources mentioned in the quote I posted above.

CDNguy87 · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
I can't see any objective reporting in that thread only tendentious commentary.

But all you have supporting your assertion that the crowd made anti-Catholic remarks is tendentious commentary from that other thread. I'm not saying it definitely didn't happen, but it would be nice if you could show some objective, 3rd-party source confirming it before repeating baseless allegations from a clearly biased source (i.e: the other OP).

CDNguy87 · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
I don't think you should slur other people and their threads when they are no longer there to be examined and s/he did cite reports, but this event has not been subject to much reporting of any kind.

Well, the poster compared the crowd to animals and basically said only Israeli Jews could do something like that, so I don't think my "slur" (calling him anti-semitic) is unfounded.

Also, is there a link to these reports? I don't think you should slur an entire crowd without citing any objective, 3rd-party evidence confirming or refuting what happened.

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

Even you seem to make it clear that ancient animosities of an ethno-religious kind were on the crowd's mind by the sources you've quoted, so you're being slightly disingenuous.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
I can't see any objective reporting in that thread only tendentious commentary.

I could not even read one page of that thread, there was nothing in there except back and forth bickering.
One thing I know, and I said it before, that is just my opinion, a simple crowd cheering would not upset the whole team this way. If there is more to it than that, we'll find out

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

That's not my recollection, but I slept through most of that thread, so unless the objective evidence is before us you shouldn't slur other people as well.

CDNguy87 said:
Well, the poster compared the crowd to animals and basically said only Israeli Jews could do something like that, so I don't think my "slur" (calling him anti-semitic) is unfounded.

Also, is there a link to these reports? I don't think you should slur an entire crowd without citing any objective, 3rd-party evidence confirming or refuting what happened.

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

When Serbs and Croats play we get several hundred years of ethno-political hatred, and Polish and Israeli matches would appear to be no different and this one was in Israel so the crowd was Israeli.

If European history wars are to be avoided neutral territory would be advisable.

volleyandfun said:
I could not even read one page of that thread, there was nothing in there except back and forth bickering.
One thing I know, and I said it before, that is just my opinion, a simple crowd cheering would not upset the whole team this way. If there is more to it than that, we'll find out

CDNguy87 · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
Even you seem to make it clear that ancient animosities of an ethno-religious kind were on the crowd's mind by the sources you've quoted, so you're being slightly disingenuous.

But there's quite a difference between yelling out that a player's country is anti-semitic as opposed to calling them a "Catholic b*tch". Neither have their place in a tennis match, but one is clearly far more hateful and worthy of punishment than the other. I have no doubt the crowd's conduct was obnoxious and crossed the line, but I'm only objecting to how you keep repeating the worst allegations made without any substantive evidence.

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

I haven't repeated anything.

CDNguy87 · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
I haven't repeated anything.

Bartelby said:
There were anti-Catholic slurs from the crowd, according to reports quoted on another thread, so their reaction to religious hatred was quite understandable.

(Again, when there's really been no objective verification of anti-Catholic slurs being made). But now this thread is just going in circles, so I think I'm done. If you could find anything verifying the other OP's assertion, I'd happily read it.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

CDNguy87 said:
But there's quite a difference between yelling out that a player's country is anti-semitic as opposed to calling them a "Catholic b*tch". Neither have their place in a tennis match, but one is clearly far more hateful and worthy of punishment than the other. I have no doubt the crowd's conduct was obnoxious and crossed the line, but I'm only objecting to how you keep repeating the worst allegations made without any substantive evidence.

With all fairness @Bartelby did not repeat anything, we are just trying to figure out what really happened

Bartelby · Feb 13, 2013

You really need Polish and Hebrew language skills to research this issue and I have neither.

I'm sure the warring parties have a lot to say that is simply skated over in the English language press.

volleyandfun · Feb 13, 2013

Bartelby said:
You really need Polish and Hebrew language skills to research this issue and I have neither.

I'm sure the warring parties have a lot to say that is simply skated over in the English language press.

I didn't see any Hebrew there, but than, I couldn't go past 1 page, just bickering

Gonzalito17 · Feb 14, 2013

volleyandfun said:
i watched that video, it seems like it started with Chakvatadze fist pumps not even Nadal can match, which looked kind of immature

Wonder what the Israeli crowd did to **** off the normally very cool and fair Chakvetadze??? HMMMM??

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