How serious are we ??

N

Number1Coach

Banned
tennisfan69 said:
N#1 coach, commend you for your belief in your player.

dont bother comparing US top nationals vs top ITF. the comparison is what is my player missing from a champions way of thinking in the court and off the court. John Mac once said in an interview, as soon as he enters the court to play, he feels like he is in a library. before every ball he hits and receives his mind immediately knows which shot to pick from the library of shots he trained all his life. So it is not how good my forehandshot is, how good my top spin is, how good i can move, how good i can serve.. because there are a lot of kids out there who can do all of the above extremely well. but the difference is when to do what. it is a psychological battle. it starts in the mind and ends in the mind.
Click to expand...

I agree that's the answer I purposely left out .

When we showed up to the OB this year we were ranked 633 in the ITF's my player knew all these guys ,in his first round against the kid from Japan he said "this guy is solid " and he was but as soon as My player knew he own the guy you could see him relax and cruise in the 3rd set for the win , then when he played the no.6 player in the world they split sets and between the 2nd and 3 rd I ask him what he needed to do ? his answer kinda blew my mind " go after him take the ball right to him he cant keep up with me " Right there I saw his belief he went on to dismantle this poor kid and left him on the court crying !

When we were heading down there he looked at the ITF's and the players like they were something real special after he played them he said being no.1 in the ITFs would mean me traveling but I know I could get it done pretty fast .

It really comes down to the mind once you have the skills and the more you play the more your mind retains as you mature .
 
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B

BSPE84

Semi-Pro
Number1Coach said:
I would like to know if the 12 year rule is scientific or speculative ?
Click to expand...

Brad, to every rule there is an exception. No one has the secret sauce, certainly not any resident of this board. If anything, take it as a contrarian indicator and forge ahead if that's what the kid wants to do.
 
R

RingerOG

New User
Through the years I have battled against just about every type of player out there (money makers, top D-1 college, top juniors). Some guys you play are obvious top 100 talent and others you are not quite sure, but you know they are good just not sure how high they could get. Then you have those that you can't understand for the life of you how they broke through and win that many matches. They do nothing special but win. The mind is very powerful in this sport.
 
R

RingerOG

New User
You are exactly right TCF, nobody knows. I could not put a finger on what some of these guys have that separated them from the rest of the pack. If I had to take a guess, I would say it is their mental approach to playing the big points. But in this day and age, I would certainly like to have some big weapons as well as mental strength. Maybe some just have a knack for the game that can't be described or understood.
 
R

RingerOG

New User
I watched Jack Sock practice court side just after he turned pro as curiosity got the best of me. Anybody that could win that many US nationals as a junior must have something special. Sure enough, he has a nasty forehand that pins opponents back and forces them to play constant defense. His serve is also very big with nice kick. While he is not the quickest guy around the court, he is a great athlete with size, strength, and durability to play at ATP level. In my opinion, those must have been jealous tennis parents as there is nothing lucky about him that i saw.
 
C

coaching32yrs

Semi-Pro
Number1Coach said:
Coach what do you think the difference is between our top Nationals vs top ITf's , how hard they hit the ball , how much topspin , how big they serve , quality of forehands and back hands , slices , speed of players ,ect ???

I purposely didnt mention what I believe the answer is but would love to see what your thought is .
Click to expand...

Tough to say. I am not an expert on ITF's. However, I have seen the #1 ITF in the world play a few years ago and it was like, you have to be kidding me. He was weak. Collinari from Argentina or US, depending which week it is, dismantled him. I saw Schneider play an incredibly tough ITF player from Japan, lefty, trains at IMG who was not top 10. Guy played unbelievable defense. You can't put 100% faith in the ITF rankings because guys travel a lot and "buy" points. When Sock won US Open juniors I don't think he even had an ITF ranking! He and Kudla were clearly the class of the field that year. I will go on record and make a prediction: Sock will be higher ranked than Harrison in a couple years. Sock has the big weapon- the forehand. Harrison is really great and I love his game- but he doesn't have the big weapon off the ground. As far as TCF's theory: the thing is you have to look at the data first than come up with the theory. You cannot have the theory than look for the data to back it up- because you are looking at the data with bias. I learned this 46 years ago in Sociology 101.
 
A

Alohajrtennis

Semi-Pro
coaching32yrs said:
I will go on record and make a prediction: Sock will be higher ranked than Harrison in a couple years. Sock has the big weapon- the forehand. Harrison is really great and I love his game- but he doesn't have the big weapon off the ground.
Click to expand...

You are not going very far out on a limb here. That could happen by Sunday.
 
C

coaching32yrs

Semi-Pro
TCF said:
Thanks for providing another player who fits my theory perfectly. Sokc just reached his 12 year mark and is doing great. Like I said several times, after 12 years the improvement will continue due to maturity and experience, but be at a much, much slower pace.....Jack Sock to a tee.

APPROXIMATE CEILING, AFTER THAT THERE WILL BE IMPROVEMENT BASED ON MATURITY AND EXPERIENCE. Feel free to look up the word approximate if thats throwing you.

I said that you gauge where a player is after 10-12 years of tennis only. After that there is improvement due to experience and maturity.

If after 12 years your player is ranked top 200 like Sock is, its not a stretch to see his improvement getting him to the top 75.

And I said if after 12 years your player is lucky to play D-3 tennis, perhaps his improvement after that will not scream top 75.

Sock started tennis at aged 8, he is now 20....12 years....and after his 12 years he has been as high as #149. That is an amazing result and obviously encourages him to keep going for the money.

Other players start at age 8 and after their 12 years they could not get past the first round of a futures.

See the difference? After 12 years some players have results that are encouraging....some do not. Seems quite simple to me.
Click to expand...

BTW coach I take offense to your comments on the data thread that I have become nonsensical. In all things in life, except tennis, you would be corrrect. Somehow in tennis I am very logical, sensible ,and accomplished as coach, parent, and player. Would be better if it were the other way around.
 
Bash and Crash

Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
TCF said:
Thanks for providing another player who fits my theory perfectly. Sokc just reached his 12 year mark and is doing great. Like I said several times, after 12 years the improvement will continue due to maturity and experience, but be at a much, much slower pace.....Jack Sock to a tee.

APPROXIMATE CEILING, AFTER THAT THERE WILL BE IMPROVEMENT BASED ON MATURITY AND EXPERIENCE. Feel free to look up the word approximate if thats throwing you.

I said that you gauge where a player is after 10-12 years of tennis only. After that there is improvement due to experience and maturity.

If after 12 years your player is ranked top 200 like Sock is, its not a stretch to see his improvement getting him to the top 75.

And I said if after 12 years your player is lucky to play D-3 tennis, perhaps his improvement after that will not scream top 75.

Sock started tennis at aged 8, he is now 20....12 years....and after his 12 years he has been as high as #149. That is an amazing result and obviously encourages him to keep going for the money.

Other players start at age 8 and after their 12 years they could not get past the first round of a futures.

See the difference? After 12 years some players have results that are encouraging....some do not. Seems quite simple to me.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes genius. But using approximate, is like saying I kinda of, sorta, maybe think, that these players have a shot at making it. Leaves a lot of room if wrong and lot of room to be right. Didn't you say Sock was too slow, and didn't have all the tools to be top 100, a year or two ago?
 
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N

Number1Coach

Banned
Bash and Crash said:
Hasn't Sock already topped out? I mean he is 20, been a pro for two years, and grinding on the challenger tour, playing longer than 12 years, so no more improvement.........:shock:
Click to expand...

I believe as Sock learns to train at a higher level off court your gonna see him start to improve and the real tennis is on its way , that is if he can get the right people around him as I saw him 2 weeks before the Aussie with and injured ankle and the coaches had him on the court practicing and he couldn't move , two weeks later he is at the Aussie retiring absolutely ******** management of a player .

Right now as of last year Socks 12 year plan started for real he now has about 8 good years left on that 12 yr deal as the average retirement age is around 28 yrs old .
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
Bash and Crash said:
Ah, yes genius. But using approximate, is like saying I kinda of, sorta, maybe think, that these players have a shot at making it. Leaves a lot of room if wrong and lot of room to be right. Didn't you say Sock was too slow, and didn't have all the tools to be top 100, a year or two ago?
Click to expand...

Yes he did i remember he said Sock should have went to college !!!!

Bash this guy is one of the biggest push on college and how you should go hopefully "to get educated" and with his math and logic he as a rep makes me want to have my kid fail in life haha !!
 
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Bash and Crash

Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
Number1Coach said:
I believe as Sock learns to train at a higher level off court your gonna see him start to improve and the real tennis is on its way , that is if he can get the right people around him as I saw him 2 weeks before the Aussie with and injured ankle and the coaches had him on the court practicing and he couldn't move , two weeks later he is at the Aussie retiring absolutely ******** management of a player .

Right now as of last year Socks 12 year plan started for real he now has about 8 good years left on that 12 yr deal as the average retirement age is around 28 yrs old .
Click to expand...

Yeah, I like Sock, good kid, talked to him at Tiburon Challenger, I think fitness and focus, and as you say better advice will be needed. My original post was tongue in cheek, because I figured Sock was right on the "12 year window theory." Now off to work, and I'm going to see who's older than 10-12 and send them home, they missed the window......:)
 
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A

Alohajrtennis

Semi-Pro
Bash and Crash said:
Yeah, I like Sock, good kid, talked to him at Tiburon Challenger, I think fitness and focus, and as you say better advice will be needed. My original post was tongue in cheek, because I figured Sock was right on the "12 year window theory."
Click to expand...

I have met him as we'll, good kid, good head on his shoulders, very likeable, sort of an anti Ryan Harrison. I think fitness and focus both must have come into play last nite, no reason Lopez should have been able to break him three times in that last set. I think he must have been tired and making some poor choices. I suspect he and Lopez will play again Tuesday in Del Ray and if I were to bet I would bet n a better result for Jack.
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
coaching32yrs said:
Tough to say. I am not an expert on ITF's. However, I have seen the #1 ITF in the world play a few years ago and it was like, you have to be kidding me. He was weak. Collinari from Argentina or US, depending which week it is, dismantled him. I saw Schneider play an incredibly tough ITF player from Japan, lefty, trains at IMG who was not top 10. Guy played unbelievable defense. You can't put 100% faith in the ITF rankings because guys travel a lot and "buy" points. When Sock won US Open juniors I don't think he even had an ITF ranking! He and Kudla were clearly the class of the field that year. I will go on record and make a prediction: Sock will be higher ranked than Harrison in a couple years. Sock has the big weapon- the forehand. Harrison is really great and I love his game- but he doesn't have the big weapon off the ground. As far as TCF's theory: the thing is you have to look at the data first than come up with the theory. You cannot have the theory than look for the data to back it up- because you are looking at the data with bias. I learned this 46 years ago in Sociology 101.
Click to expand...

There is no difference on the "level" of the top 10 US ranked players and the top 10 ITf players , the only difference I saw was they for the most are all planning on going pro so their "mindset" is a bit different, as for our kids are "well i am not going pro for at least 5 years".

TCF has theory's so do the evolutionist , He just makes it up as he goes and I know why , he has a girl who probably has beginner strokes not a Jan Silva by any means or he would post videos , she cant win like DB and his sister did at 8 yrs old dominating age groups ahead, while his daughter cant win 1 match and with all the time and info he post its frustrating for him to be on here so wants to bring everyone else down !!

We need to answer TCF with sensitivity and understanding and we should all be encouraging to him until his daughter can finally post a win in practice or a real match .

So I am asking all posters on my behalf to really be sensitive towards TCF .
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
Alohajrtennis said:
I have met him as we'll, good kid, good head on his shoulders, very likeable, sort of an anti Ryan Harrison. I think fitness and focus both must have come into play last nite, no reason Lopez should have been able to break him three times in that last set. I think he must have been tired and making some poor choices. I suspect he and Lopez will play again Tuesday in Del Ray and if I were to bet I would bet n a better result for Jack.
Click to expand...

the problem is our players dont start seeing real fitness till college but they dont have time to take it to super fitness between class time ,homework, social life, practice and rest time , then they head on the tour have half ass results because they are not in elite shape , it is very simple math ,
 
A

Alohajrtennis

Semi-Pro
Number1Coach said:
the problem is our players dont start seeing real fitness till college but they dont have time to take it to super fitness between class time ,homework, social life, practice and rest time , then they head on the tour have half ass results because they are not in elite shape , it is very simple math ,
Click to expand...

The discipline required to maintain the fitness level to compete on the futures/challengers circuit, even with generous support, is enormous. The constant traveling, third world food, lack of facilities. It can, and must be done to be successful, it one of those things that will separate the boys from the men.
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
Alohajrtennis said:
The discipline required to maintain the fitness level to compete on the futures/challengers circuit, even with generous support, is enormous. The constant traveling, third world food, lack of facilities. It can, and must be done to be successful, it one of those things that will separate the boys from the men.
Click to expand...

Some of my friends from my days with the MMA still are involved with DB's training to have him on a physical level that will and currently does equal men , some of the videos I posted from the OB on youtube watch carefully you can see DB's strength and fitness just overwhelming the kid from Croatia , this is my dream for American tennis is to get our up and coming players as serious about their training early like the foreigners .
 
C

coaching32yrs

Semi-Pro
Coach #1: Is it possible in training to develop great flexibility along with strength and stamina. It seems on the pro tour that Djokovic has unbelievable flexibility. He doesn't appear muscular, but obviously has world class strength as well. Is that flexibilty just the genes? If it can be devloped how come none of the other pros seeem to have found the secret?
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
coaching32yrs said:
Coach #1: Is it possible in training to develop great flexibility along with strength and stamina. It seems on the pro tour that Djokovic has unbelievable flexibility. He doesn't appear muscular, but obviously has world class strength as well. Is that flexibilty just the genes? If it can be devloped how come none of the other pros seeem to have found the secret?
Click to expand...

Most of the others that haven't found it can blame themselves , their team . Flexibility is something gained , do others have it naturally yes , my player last year could barley reach past his shins this year he grabs the bottom of his feet , I have spent the last 3 to 4 months going more in depth about stretching and were seeing improvement from what we have learned and "applied ".

As for your 1st question yes it is , we have benched as much as 180 and right now he is lucky to throw up 150lbs but were not trying to make those gains right now , we have been as fast as a high 4.6 in the 40 as of right now pretty slow at around 4 .8 but were not trying to gain there right now , It just comes down to discipline and work !!
 
M

Misterbill

Semi-Pro
TCF said:
But maybe thats the real plan. Either make it big only because dad gets the coaching credit and if not, you will be right here on my level. We either both make it or neither of us.
Click to expand...

Yup. That's the only reason I can see for not trying a new coaching influence. Chance that a new coaching influence could spur a bump in the developmental trajectory. And the player would have nothing to lose but his chains
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
TCF said:
I read this and then came to the conclusion that spending even one additional second posting on this forum would be simply throwing away good time after bad.:roll::roll::roll:

I will enjoy lurking though every now and then to see how the grand plan plays out!
Click to expand...

Like this will ever happen !!! TCF will go back sit in his closet while drinking a flat soda then come up with some new theory that his Buzz Lightyear and Woody doll tell him and will be back here like a Banshee on fire and present it like someone trying to point out what a good job dummy is doing in the White House!
Like I always say " will see"
 
M

Misterbill

Semi-Pro
Number1Coach said:
Like this will ever happen !!! TCF will go back sit in his closet while drinking a flat soda then come up with some new theory that his Buzz Lightyear and Woody doll tell him and will be back here like a Banshee on fire and present it like someone trying to point out what a good job dummy is doing in the White House!
Like I always say " will see"
Click to expand...

If his theories have equal validity as evolutionism, I would venture to say maybe 10%--20%, maybe more, of the readers here would think that is a compliment!
 
M

Misterbill

Semi-Pro
Number1Coach said:
Like this will ever happen !!! TCF will go back sit in his closet while drinking a flat soda then come up with some new theory that his Buzz Lightyear and Woody doll tell him and will be back here like a Banshee on fire and present it like someone trying to point out what a good job dummy is doing in the White House!
Like I always say " will see"
Click to expand...

The economic policies of Obama and the Democrats favor the rich and the policies of the Republicans favor the common man.

The universe was created in six days

Global warming is a hoax

I am Number 1 Coach

Gotta praise you for the consistency of your reasoning.
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
Misterbill said:
The economic policies of Obama and the Democrats favor the rich and the policies of the Republicans favor the common man.

The universe was created in six days

Global warming is a hoax

I am Number 1 Coach

Gotta praise you for the consistency of your reasoning.
Click to expand...

Hey this is a fun one go look up , the Ice Age is coming in 1976 and the experts were really pushing that theory now they have changed their position Global warming ,sounds like one of their diciples on here !

On global warming I like it when its hot they say the earth is warming up when its cold they say see the earth is warming up , when I was young we called those 2 winter and summer !!
 
C

coaching32yrs

Semi-Pro
Misterbill said:
The economic policies of Obama and the Democrats favor the rich and the policies of the Republicans favor the common man.

The universe was created in six days

Global warming is a hoax

I am Number 1 Coach

Gotta praise you for the consistency of your reasoning.
Click to expand...

Sorry MisterBill but Coach#1 is right on point 1. The Republican policies DO favor the common man in the long run. The Democrats have done nothing to curb the runaway freight train that is entitlement spending. We cannot tax the rich our way out of it. The numbers do not work. As entitlement spending, the federal debt, and interest rates all rise the common man will be in much worse shape.
 
M

Misterbill

Semi-Pro
coaching32yrs said:
Sorry MisterBill but Coach#1 is right on point 1. The Republican policies DO favor the common man in the long run. The Democrats have done nothing to curb the runaway freight train that is entitlement spending. We cannot tax the rich our way out of it. The numbers do not work. As entitlement spending, the federal debt, and interest rates all rise the common man will be in much worse shape.
Click to expand...

OK. On economic grounds....in the long run........the rich should support the Democrats and the poor should support the Republicans because "we cannot tax the rich our way out of it", as you say.

So if that Democratic policy is no good, I guess we gotta go with the other party and tax the middle class and cut entitlements for the poor. Just ran that by my lunch pail friends and told them it would be real good for them in the long run. They said in the long run they'd all be dead.

(I take it by your silence that you think point 4 is wrong)
 
C

coaching32yrs

Semi-Pro
Misterbill said:
OK. On economic grounds....in the long run........the rich should support the Democrats and the poor should support the Republicans because "we cannot tax the rich our way out of it", as you say.

So if that Democratic policy is no good, I guess we gotta go with the other party and tax the middle class and cut entitlements for the poor. Just ran that by my lunch pail friends and told them it would be real good for them in the long run. They said in the long run they'd all be dead.

(I take it by your silence that you think point 4 is wrong)
Click to expand...
Support positions that make sense, democratic or republican. A democratic pres. commissioned Bowles Simpson, which was bipartisan. It made sense. The same pres. mothballed the report because of politics. That's the problem. Ask your lunch pail friends how we going to pay the interest on the debt as it goes over 17 trillion. What happens when interest rates raise or China stops lending to us. Here's what real lunch pail folks say to that: don't understand the issue or don't care.
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
TCF said:
You are correct, its very hard for me to ignore you because you are such a great little package....a diehard, ultraright winger who repeats word for word what Rush and Fox tells him, combined with a tennis dad who tries to take all the credit for his kid's success.

I have had my fun with either one of them, but all in one package? Now that is pure gold!
Click to expand...

lets pretend i am this rightwinger can you please explain how "Newsweek" cover 1975 edition says there is a coming ice age ,and now its a global warming , should i buy thick sleeping bags or tank tops ??

BTW did she win a match yet ????
 
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A

andfor

Legend
TCF said:
You are correct, its very hard for me to ignore you because you are such a great little package....a diehard, ultraright winger who repeats word for word what Rush and Fox tells him, combined with a tennis dad who tries to take all the credit for his kid's success.

I have had my fun with either one of them, but all in one package? Now that is pure gold!
Click to expand...

Yeah, and you're a loony liberal who believes all the huge lies our President tells the American public. It's clear you obviously get your talking points from MSNBC, Al Gore, the Daily Kos and The Huffington Post.

You also are probably a big fan of Joe Biden. BAAAAH Ha ha ha!!!!!!

This thread will be gone soon or posts will be deleted.
 
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M

Misterbill

Semi-Pro
coaching32yrs said:
Support positions that make sense, democratic or republican. A democratic pres. commissioned Bowles Simpson, which was bipartisan. It made sense. The same pres. mothballed the report because of politics. That's the problem. Ask your lunch pail friends how we going to pay the interest on the debt as it goes over 17 trillion. What happens when interest rates raise or China stops lending to us. Here's what real lunch pail folks say to that: don't understand the issue or don't care.
Click to expand...

Wrong. My lunch pail friends say they understand, and that the solution is more jobs....which will lead to higher tax revenues. They also said they think you are a little condescending toward working stiffs
 
K

klu375

Semi-Pro
They both need to take a break and join the discussion on high-school snacks. Maybe they can find a common ground there.
 
C

coaching32yrs

Semi-Pro
Misterbill said:
Wrong. My lunch pail friends say they understand, and that the solution is more jobs....which will lead to higher tax revenues. They also said they think you are a little condescending toward working stiffs
Click to expand...

We have to exit this discussion or the thread will be shut down. A little candy here and there is OK. Players eating candy on a regular basis is not good and will hurt their performace.
 
N

NLBwell

Legend
Though I'm chomping at the bit to get into a political discussion, I won't for the sake of not getting the thread deleted.
Just saw a study that showed eating chocolate cake with breakfast can increase weight loss since the people will stick with their restricted calorie diets longer. (same number of calories total with the chocolate cake)
 
N

Number1Coach

Banned
TCF said:
You are correct, its very hard for me to ignore you because you are such a great little package....a diehard, ultraright winger who repeats word for word what Rush and Fox tells him, combined with a tennis dad who tries to take all the credit for his kid's success.

I have had my fun with either one of them, but all in one package? Now that is pure gold!
Click to expand...

TCF where you at ?
 
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