Jeffrey573639
Semi-Pro
Let's clarify- it's not a who is the GOAT thread (though someone should make one since we've almost never had them before). But basically do you think it's a debate worth having?
Greatest has to be Sampras or Federer Laver was great but 3 of the slams then were played on grass and there were some old farts sending down pies with no video analysis like today for opponents to get after his weakness.
Sampras????? you must be reeaally high..
if anyone its you who is high federer is not god lol
LOL, True True
if anyone its you who is high federer is not god lol
LOL, True True
GOAT is essential to any sport, period. Look at how basketball fans revere MJ, it's the very principle of the contemporary game he's the standard, the revered figure.
There is no such debate anymore. Greatest players have decided who the GOAT is, Laver, Borg...have said it several times.
You pinheads can have as much debate as you want.
There is no such debate anymore. Greatest players have decided who the GOAT is, Laver, Borg...have said it several times.
You pinheads can have as much debate as you want.
yes, almost all greats have molded their game into Laver´s.That says it all.
Laver played in a generation where 3 majors were on grass! The sport didn't have the same athletic requirements as it did now!
He faced a bunch of old farts who had no video analysis to figure out his weaknesses! Agreed he was a great player but no way would have won the Grand Slam in this era! The onus is on him in that debate!
The 'GOAT' debate was invented by Talk Tennis. As a result, the 'GOAT' debate is senseless and meaningless, since anything produced by posters on Talk Tennis tends to be garbage. I've never seen a more paranoid, obsessive internet forum in world history. The driving force behind this nonsensical 'GOAT' debate is Rafael Nadal (he tends to be the driving force in tennis, PERIOD), and due to the beatings he gave federer in the past (and will continue to routinely give federer), he is the most talked-about player in the debate.
Laver played in a generation where 3 majors were on grass! The sport didn't have the same athletic requirements as it did now!
He faced a bunch of old farts who had no video analysis to figure out his weaknesses! Agreed he was a great player but no way would have won the Grand Slam in this era! The onus is on him in that debate!
Right, here's Laver at the age of 37-38 against one of the best athletes tennis has ever seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiSakiF4jzk
Insane athletic requirements that saw athletic studs like Almagro and Janko make top 10 and a 35 year old Haas be ranked #17.
Right, here's Laver at the age of 37-38 against one of the best athletes tennis has ever seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiSakiF4jzk
Insane athletic requirements that saw athletic studs like Almagro and Janko make top 10 and a 35 year old Haas be ranked #17.
Nice video. Love to see old school tennis in HQ. Borg was a speed demon.
However, I still laugh at those Laver fanboys and their nostalgic recollections of Laver's "massive left forearm". Remember, legend has it that Laver's gigantic forearm was thicker than the average man's leg. :lol:
Nice video. Love to see old school tennis in HQ. Borg was a speed demon.
However, I still laugh at those Laver fanboys and their nostalgic recollections of Laver's "massive left forearm". Remember, legend has it that Laver's gigantic forearm was thicker than the average man's leg. :lol:
Not just his speed, his footwork is also amazing to me and Laver's court coverage is not too shabby for a guy who's in his late 30s.
LOL I remember that (I almost fell off a chair laughing when I read it), I still don't think most of them even realize that a guy they love to dump on- Roddick has a bigger forearm than Laver ever did.
That said, game always evolves crowd that think Laver would be the equivalent of Rochus today and Sampras wouldn't be top 10 annoys me just as much.
70's and early 80's tennis is fun to watch, but you could give Laver or Borg any racquet they wanted and they would be blown off the court by today's top players. It wouldn't even be fair. The game evolves; players evolve. It's the way of the world.
Let's also not forget that Laver was the absolute definition of class, never setting a foot wrong, never to become flustered or frustrated. He was basically the Mother Teresa of tennis. The players of this generation hold no class whatsoever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RiSakiF4jzk#t=180s
I agree, I'm sure he had more of such (and worse) moments but there's wasn't anywhere near as coverage as there is today.
I have to say, Laver does strike me as a very classy guy but that's just the impression I get from his interviews over the years.
Nice video. Love to see old school tennis in HQ. Borg was a speed demon.
However, I still laugh at those Laver fanboys and their nostalgic recollections of Laver's "massive left forearm". Remember, legend has it that Laver's gigantic forearm was thicker than the average man's leg. :lol:
Right, so where's the limit to this evolution? Will players be 8 foot tall mutants that serve 300 km/h and hit 200 km/h in a few decades?
The game changes, new trends emerge (as a consequence of various things) but whether it evolves it's open to a debate, if it did (especially to a degree people claim it does) than we wouldn't see way past their prime champions time and again still do so well and give the new guard a run for their money (no, I don't believe Laver, Lendl, Agassi and Fed are/were playing their best in their 30s).
Your point about racquets, I have little doubt if Borg and Laver grew up with modern sticks they'd still be all time great in modern era (especially Borg would have probably thrived in current conditions) but besides that, who know how well would the current best players play with wood? It goes both ways.
I mean we have Laver's forearm bigger than most pros legs, 80 mph slices and who knows what else :lol:
That was Rosewall, not Laver. Don't mix things up
and also it was 100 mph, not 80
Its circular arguing and reasoning at the end of the day with no "clear cut winner" because quite frankly its impossible to compare eras (Some tournaments had lesser prestige then they do now, GOAT candidates were banned from playing the majors for many years etc), racket technology and court surfaces have change throughout the decades
Tennis is a bit different from other sports because there is no hands down dominant GOAT that dominated to the degree regardless of eras that can put that player out in front.
At the end of the day, Rosewall, Pancho, Laver, Federer all have some legit claims to GOAT status. None of the them have hands down claims to GOAT status but if I had choose and put them in order it would go like:
1. Laver
2. Pancho
3. Rosewall
4. Federer
5. Sampras
But thats just my opinion. And thats all there is at the end of the day in this sport, opinions. No hand down FACT to prove.
There isn't a hands down GOAT in this sport like this with Phelps in Swimming, Jordan in Basketball, Gretzky in hockey etc.
No.
Fans have their favourite and will generally argue for that player.
Like the poll says, too many variables. Federer is best in regards to Grand Slams but has losing record to Nadal, does that make Nadal greatest? You can go round in circles and start to include other players and argue for them.
if anyone its you who is high federer is not god lol