Low, low tensions. 30lbs feels great. 20lbs pretty good, too

drak

Hall of Fame
Thank you for all that! I look forward to trying things out
The lowest I've gone is 46lbs with Sharky Spike or Black Shark or whatever. It was an interesting experience and I especially loved volleying with it but groundstrokes felt weird, almost jarring[though not super uncomfortable]. I did like it overall, even if I was hoping for more spin.
I'm definitely going to be trying this much more though I'll be taking baby steps and step 1 is to hit with this PC600.

What is ELT?

believe it is "extremely low tension"

A Q to the guys who like 30ish with syngut. Is it like Poly then that you want to cut the strings out after 8-10 hrs?
 

v-verb

Hall of Fame
Thank you for all that! I look forward to trying things out
The lowest I've gone is 46lbs with Sharky Spike or Black Shark or whatever. It was an interesting experience and I especially loved volleying with it but groundstrokes felt weird, almost jarring[though not super uncomfortable]. I did like it overall, even if I was hoping for more spin.
I'm definitely going to be trying this much more though I'll be taking baby steps and step 1 is to hit with this PC600.

What is ELT?


ELT = Extreme Low Tension. So about 30 lbs give or take. For my 18 x 20 Donnay X-Platinum I'm going down to 25 lbs from 35 lbs
 
believe it is "extremely low tension"

A Q to the guys who like 30ish with syngut. Is it like Poly then that you want to cut the strings out after 8-10 hrs?

From my experience, the syn gut does not go dead like poly after 8-10 hrs. I did feel a very gradual and small tension loss after a few hours of very hard hits. The unusually harder hits were due to the extra spin curling the ball into the net. So I needed more drive to get it across.

The "big" drop in tension seem to happen at about the 8-10 hours mark. Or it could be due to me leaving the racket in a friend's car in the hot sun :oops:

But it remains playable and comfortable. I've actually recorded almost every session I had with my first ELT stick at the link below.

http://unorthodoxstringing.blogspot.sg/2013/02/wilson-psc-61-synthetic-gut-30-lbs.html

:)
 
Just ordered some more natural gut. I'm gonna try 25 as well.

Awaiting your report eagerly!!!

On a sidenote, I was still thinking about benefits of ELT when i came across a very very slightly cracked racket.

Then i thought, since ELT is strung at only HALF the poundage of what the racket is designed for, wouldn't that open up more fanciful stringing opportunities?

For one, I'll string up that minor cracked frame. Full protective gear on of course!

Another thought could be stringing one-piece bottom up (against some manufacturers' advice). That'll save us some hard weaves and avoid going around the racket.

Hey! I may even dig out an unwanted stick and do a zigzag pattern!:lol:
 
The unusually harder hits were due to the extra spin curling the ball into the net. So I needed more drive to get it across.
I do believe this is also because of loss of power with elt, which again works as a relative increase in spin. And it is why I do not think elt will be for me since most of my rackets are low powered (90", 18x20 and so on).
It could be interesting to try it in a higher powered racket. My PS Classic comes to mind. But what happens when the snap back goes? Well I will have to see.
 

drak

Hall of Fame
I am at about 36 hours with no decline. Tension seems to be holding very well and playability is great.

Thx for the reply. Is your gut at 30lbs? And how is the power level and spin potential at ELT for gut vs syngut - is there a significant difference?

some comments here say that 30lbs may actually have too little power for some rackets/players. So I am wondering if gut boosts the power that enough to reach a better blend of power/control/spin?
 

drak

Hall of Fame
I do believe this is also because of loss of power with elt, which again works as a relative increase in spin. And it is why I do not think elt will be for me since most of my rackets are low powered (90", 18x20 and so on).
It could be interesting to try it in a higher powered racket. My PS Classic comes to mind. But what happens when the snap back goes? Well I will have to see.

as I wrote in another post is gut then perhaps an ever better alternative for someone like you who might want a little more power and perhaps even spin at ELT's near 30 lbs?
 

drak

Hall of Fame
What strings seem to do very well at ELT? Polys, multis, sun guyt?

in the beginning of this thread it was thought that Poly would be THE string to use at low tensions and there seemed to be little or no syngut or gut testing at ELT. It appears over the last sever weeks? Months? that using a syngut or multi or now even gut at ELT tension is perhaps superior. when I begin playing again is a week or so I will try this out on one of my frames.
 

yourmailman

Rookie
What strings seem to do very well at ELT? Polys, multis, sun guyt?

The poly I used ( TF Red Code 18 ) seems a bit stiff for my tastes. A hybrid setup goes a long way in alleviating that problem. But an all syn-gut string bed is far superiors IMHO. If you really want to see some action, I recommend going natural gut all the way.

Try the syn-gut first, if you are worried about price, and if you like the results, try natural gut. I was very pleasantly surprised. I love the all nat-gut at ELT!
 
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drak

Hall of Fame
The poly I used (TF Red Code 18) seems a bit stiff for my tastes. A hybrid setup goes a long way in alleviating that problem. But an all syn-gut string bed is far superiors IMHO. If you really want to see some action, I recommend going natural gut all the way.

Try the syn-gut first, if you are worried about price, and if you like the results, try natural gut. I was very pleasantly surprised. I love the all nat-gut at ELT!

"If you really want to see some action, I recommend going natural gut all the way.

Try the syn-gut first, if you are worried about price, and if you like the results, try natural gut. I was very pleasantly surprised. I love the all nat-gut at ELT!"




great, can you give us a detailed synopsis of why gut is the best for you? thx

Drak
 

SOY78

Professional
Just tried ELT 35# on a Volkl Tour 10 V Mid strung with ProSupex Big Ace 1.22 and a BB London Tour strung with Polyfibre Poly Hightech 1.20. All I have to say is they both feel great. Last Friday all I was doing is working on consistency just hitting at the baseline for 2 hours straight. The feel from those copoly's were amazing. You can even volley with those. Didn't try any serves but baseline shots were awesome. Hitting flat could be a challenge at first but I had to adjust and not hit flat that much. No way I am going back to poly in the 50's :)
 

yourmailman

Rookie
great, can you give us a detailed synopsis of why gut is the best for you? thx

Drak

Hey Drak,

The natural gut has a nicer feel to it than the syn-gut (for me, anyway). It seems to give me a little more rotation on the ball and a little more pop on my serve than the syn-gut. Granted, it's not much more, but there is definitely a difference. As I said earlier, I was really hoping there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between the syn-gut and the natural because of the big price discrepancy. But there is.

Plus, it seems like the playability is still there in the nat-gut after a lot of use.
 

drak

Hall of Fame
Hey Drak,

The natural gut has a nicer feel to it than the syn-gut (for me, anyway). It seems to give me a little more rotation on the ball and a little more pop on my serve than the syn-gut. Granted, it's not much more, but there is definitely a difference. As I said earlier, I was really hoping there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between the syn-gut and the natural because of the big price discrepancy. But there is.

Plus, it seems like the playability is still there in the nat-gut after a lot of use.

thx and that makes sense. Did you feel the control of gut at ELT was as good as the syngut?
 
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anubis

Hall of Fame
just a friendly report on my experience with low tensions. I have a 2013 APD, and when I first got it, i strung it @ 54 lbs (BHB7 17). Tension was perfect, aside from the wrist pain. I could swing as hard as I want and it almost never went out. Laser-like control. I won 6 doubles matches in a row with that thing...

Fast forward to current setup: 44 lbs, absolute launch pad. Couldn't keep the ball in play. unforced error after another. I had to revert to slice backhands and slow, weak forehands just to keep it in play. Still won, but by the skin of my teeth.

Noticed no difference in pain though, it still hurt. I may just string it back up to 54 lbs and use it sparingly instead.
 

v-verb

Hall of Fame
just a friendly report on my experience with low tensions. I have a 2013 APD, and when I first got it, i strung it @ 54 lbs (BHB7 17). Tension was perfect, aside from the wrist pain. I could swing as hard as I want and it almost never went out. Laser-like control. I won 6 doubles matches in a row with that thing...

Fast forward to current setup: 44 lbs, absolute launch pad. Couldn't keep the ball in play. unforced error after another. I had to revert to slice backhands and slow, weak forehands just to keep it in play. Still won, but by the skin of my teeth.

Noticed no difference in pain though, it still hurt. I may just string it back up to 54 lbs and use it sparingly instead.

Thanks for the report! Sorry it didn't work for you.

Do you string your own racquets? If you gamble on one more set of string and string it at 30 or 25 lbs, as several have reported that 40's is no man;s land for string tensions.

I have a Yamaha Secret 04 which was totally unplayable - it launched balls everywhere with syngut at high 50's. With Poly at 30 lbs it was amazing - total power with control. and no pain even though the Secret 04 is a brick.
 

yourmailman

Rookie
Totally agree with the analogy about the 40's being no-man's land.

Talking with a friend and he put it very succinctly ... Don't try to sneak up on ELT.

Everyone I know that has worked their way down had issues in the 40's, but when you get down to real ELT (30#) a lot of things will change. I didn't really like the 40's and even the high 30's. When I got down to 32 and 30, it was a world of difference, and I not only liked it ... I loved it.
 

eman resu

Professional
How low should I go, then to avoid no man's land on a racquet as dense as a Wilson Rok (prestige-like 93 and 18x20)? Will 30 be low enough? Still worried because I've decided to adopt a placement style game, and I don't know if ELT would work. On the other hand, I would love some extra forgiveness on my Rok.
 

eman resu

Professional
Another question: what would be the pro/cons of ELT for a beginner who hasn't quite put her strokes in order (my girlfriend)? Would it make a difference for her, positive or negative?
 

anubis

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the report! Sorry it didn't work for you.

Do you string your own racquets? If you gamble on one more set of string and string it at 30 or 25 lbs, as several have reported that 40's is no man;s land for string tensions.

I have a Yamaha Secret 04 which was totally unplayable - it launched balls everywhere with syngut at high 50's. With Poly at 30 lbs it was amazing - total power with control. and no pain even though the Secret 04 is a brick.

Thank you, yes I do string my own racquets so I don't mind trying new things. I buy BHB7 by the reel, so no big deal in wasting string. I'll take your advice and try 34 lbs next time and see what happens.
 

Fuji

Legend
Thank you, yes I do string my own racquets so I don't mind trying new things. I buy BHB7 by the reel, so no big deal in wasting string. I'll take your advice and try 34 lbs next time and see what happens.

As stated, definitely try in the 30's. For some reason, I've found as well, that low 40's don't work particularly well either.

-Fuji
 

v-verb

Hall of Fame
Thank you, yes I do string my own racquets so I don't mind trying new things. I buy BHB7 by the reel, so no big deal in wasting string. I'll take your advice and try 34 lbs next time and see what happens.


Very cool - looking forward to the report!

Cheers
 

yourmailman

Rookie
Another question: what would be the pro/cons of ELT for a beginner who hasn't quite put her strokes in order (my girlfriend)? Would it make a difference for her, positive or negative?

What level would you rate her? I would say that anyone that is a 3.0 or above could benefit from ELT. My mixed doubles partner right now is a 3.0. We were getting killed in our league, then I introduced her to ELT. She is now hitting some shots that I have never seen her make before, and doing it more and more often.

My best guess is it's either the ELT or my immense talent is rubbing off on her. :lol:

Have her give it a try.
 

eman resu

Professional
We don't have these numbers here, but she's lower than 3.0, probably.

Anyway, I decided to try 30lbs with Babolat Nvy on my customized Wilson Rok (360g 10pts HL, 5g spread at the sides 3 and 9). Couldn't play yet, but so far it feels weird hitting against my hand, and I don't know if it's in a good way. Sweetspot doesn't feel bigger. Reminds me of finding an used 80s racquet with very old unknown strings at unknown tension at a store. I usually likes how they play, so maybe I'll be good.

I can only play tomorrow, if the weather allows, so lets give it a chance to hit some balls before saying anything.

By the way, this 17 gauge stringbed at 30 weights the same as my previous 16 syn gut at 50.
 
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keithfival

Professional
Got to try the ogsm 17 @ 30 tonight. Played two sets first with my regular setup. Brought out the 30, immediately the UE count went way up. A few balls flying way long, quite a few slices/block returns flying high and wide. Settled in a little after a few games but still way more UEs and really holding back on FH. Obviously, there is some adjusting needed. But, despite all that, there is something very pleasant, almost addicting about it. I continued enjoying it and wanting to keep trying even though I wasn't playing as well!

Here were my general results:

Serving was great, good first serve % and kick serve was fantastic, like slingshotting the ball into the BH corner!

FH- really hard for me to attack with flat FH. My FH was essentially demoted to a rally shot except for a few spinny short angle shots which were nice.

BH- rally shot was fine but also hard to attack. Almost everytime I went up the line it sailed long.

Volley/OH- excellent. Point and shoot, ball just sinks into the stringbed and shoots in a straight line. I could see playing S & V with this setup.

Slice- offensive slices were fine but defensive slices really popped up on me and often sailed wide. Happened repeatedly.

Feel- delightful. As I said, even though I was playing worse I was really enjoying it! Something very appealing about it!

I'll probably keep this in the bag and mess around, maybe try some S&V with it, but so far I find I really can't flatten out any groundies like this which the main part of my game! I could see someone really grooving with it if their aggressive shots are all topspin. I just don't see how you smack a flat FH like this though.
 
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I could see someone really grooving with it if their aggressive shots are all topspin. I just don't see how you smack a flat FH like this though.

Thanks for the detailed updates!

A flat hitting playing partner encountered the same problems. On his other racket with similar specs, i increased the tension from 30 to 34 lbs and he liked it immediately! It's a 100 sq in frame.

From my tests, it seems the frame size matters. I think Yourmailman uses a Bio 100 racket. That's 90 sq in with a 16x19 pattern.

When I strung my 95 sq in 16x18 PSC6.1 at 30 with 17g syn gut, it did feel a little too loose. But it's still playable although the pocketing feels much deeper than I expected, even on the first few hits.

After more than 10 hrs of hard hits, the pocketing became so deep that sometimes the ball clips the inside bottom edge of the frame on topspin shots! :shock: I thought I hit the frame on the outside until my partner pointed it out to me. :oops:

I want to clock some more hours on that strings to observe how it wears before I cut them. Then, I'll probably up the tension to 32 or 33 lbs with the same string.

Another observation is the differences between multi and syn gut became very very pronounced with ELT. I could still feel the diff at 60+ lbs, but in the 30s, they behave much more differently.

Multi plays much "stiffer" and more stable than syn gut strung at ELT. Vibration dampening really shines for multi. Harsh rackets, typically Wilson Hammers, or very stiff light weight head heavy frames became so smooth and arm-friendly when multi was used as mains with syn gut cross. It was so comfortable that my playing partners did not even want to put on their usual dampeners!

After reading Yourmailman having so much fun with ELT nat gut, I finally ordered some... Gosh! Shipping is so ex to my part of the globe!!!
 

yourmailman

Rookie
U-S,

Yeah, I am having a blast with the nat-gut at 30 (now shows as 29 on my tension app).

I played with it again tonight, and still no loss of playability. Plus, we had several 14 to 18 shot rallies. I ended up winning most of them.

One thing I did notice tonight is that I was having trouble returning serve. Not sure why. I did have a few that were great. My opponent was putting the majority of his first serves to my backhand side (with lefty spin). When I was able to get my racquet on it, with no forward motion, it would clear the net and drop rapidly with enough backspin to be unreachable for him.

Several of his second serves to my forehand went into the net, which is unusual for me. I think I was having a problem picking up the ball on his serve. But if we got into a rally, the odds were that I would win the point.

My new set of nat-gut should be here tomorrow. I am thinking of using it in my PS 6.0 85. I really like the feel of the racquet, and want to see what net-gut at 30 feels like in it. Currently, it has poly ( TF Red Code 18 ) at 34. Probably won't be able to test it until next week, but will report back when I do.
 
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Yourmailman,

Do you think you can measure the length and width (in mm) of your PS 6.0 85 frame when it is unstrung? Either the internal of the hoop or the external from 12 to 6 and 9 to 3 would be good.

I have an oldie but no one has any idea of its specs, not even headsize! Even emails to Wilson were unanswered. I have no clue at what tension to string it up :-?

Thanks!
 

eman resu

Professional
Quick review after 4 hours of doubles: The rok was playing like my Ozone tour.

More spin (nothing out of this world, but hey, it's a rok - if it were my ozone tour I'd probably be nadal by now)
More power, but in a controlable way
Big increase in sweetspot and dwell time. That's what I was looking for and I got it. Happy.
I was volleying very well during warm ups, very effortlesly. During matches, however, and especially as I got more tired, I felt I could'nt finish points well. I wasn't feeling confident to put away those balls or to confidently distinguish a lob from a drop shot. Never thought I'd say that, but I missed the crispness of my Ozone. Maybe I should have gone with a stiffer string to sart with. Very very comfortable, though, and might work really well for me on singles, but not so much on doubles.

Now the reason why it didn't work for me, in the end: it SUCKED on serves. No power, spin, nothing. I rely a lot on my serve, and I had a terrible time adjusting to the feel and lack of power. Many double faults and I was pushing it with zero confidence as my flat, slice and kick attempts failed over and over again. Felt really dead. Never got a great felling serve with this ELT. The rok isn't my favourite racquyet to serve anyway, but I don't think I'll try on my Ozone.

All in all, I have an easier to play with racquet, wich was my goal. But serving really sucked, and that's a huge part of my game.
 

keithfival

Professional
Now the reason why it didn't work for me, in the end: it SUCKED on serves. No power, spin, nothing. I rely a lot on my serve, and I had a terrible time adjusting to the feel and lack of power.

I've tried ELT on two frames now, one frame my flat serve lost 10-15 mph, on the other serving was great, my favorite part of the setup. So, I guess ELT reacts quite differently with different frames?

For me kick serve was very good with either though, can really go after it without it sailing.
 

Rozroz

G.O.A.T.
i'm done with my ELT experiments for now.
the biggest advantage was EASE ON ARM. that's a big +,
also the weird extra spin and softness on some shots.

but overall the preciseness and control on higher tension (48-50) is something i must have in my game. i also finally regained a lot more power to my shots. and the slice is a lot better now.
the downside, again, is that the racquet feels like it's strung at 60 now LOL, like a metal board. i got softness spoiled a bit.
 

GarryClarke

Semi-Pro
ive just strung 1 of my 2012 pd,s with forten sweet @ 35lbs:shock:

not playing till sunday morning so will post my thoughts then,
after reading this thread on and off for weeks i thought why the hell not:)

cheers Garry
 
I've tried ELT on two frames now, one frame my flat serve lost 10-15 mph, on the other serving was great, my favorite part of the setup. So, I guess ELT reacts quite differently with different frames?

For me kick serve was very good with either though, can really go after it without it sailing.

Please share what are the two frames and their frame size, string density, additional lead placement if any?

What stringing machine did you use to string both rackets? Dropweight, crank or electronic?

:)
 

eman resu

Professional
Gave it another chance today, this time a light singles tie-break against an 86 years old but fit and strong player (I'm 26). Again, all the same. Extremely comfortable and very forgiving on all strokes. really opened the very dense 18 x20 pattern on my Wilson Rok. However, once again, my serves were weak. I seem to lost all my mojo. I get much much less than I put on it. Still won, but wasn't happy. Switched to my Ozone for the last 2 points and my serve came alive again.

I'll give it one more chance next week, but I'm preparing for my Chang Longbody that I ordered, so I've extended my Rok to 28". Lets see what I can do now...
 

v-verb

Hall of Fame
Looking forward to your Chang report. I've got 2 waiting at my mailbox place - mid Ti and OS Graphite. My POG longbodies shipped from the Philippines last night.

All will be getting the ELT treatment - well maybe one will not as I've found that my serve likes higher tensions as well.
 

yourmailman

Rookie
I found the same thing when I first went to ELT. My serve seemed to drop a bit in mph. However, I thought the added movement and improved accuracy offset that. Within a week, the mph had returned and I started serving more aces than ever (not that I am a huge ace banger, but the percentages definitely went up). Also, my serves started going deeper in the box.

Maybe getting used to serving with ELT takes a bit longer than the other facets of the game, but it did come (with a little bit of practice).
 

eman resu

Professional
Good for you... HOpe you're right, but I lost not only speed, but also spin and accuracy. I serve and volley a lot, and the serve is more than half of my game, its my best stroke. Can't use a racquet/string that nulifies my best strenght, even though it feels good on everything else.
 

keithfival

Professional
Please share what are the two frames and their frame size, string density, additional lead placement if any?

What stringing machine did you use to string both rackets? Dropweight, crank or electronic?

:)

Microgel Rad MP 98, 18x20, ~2g total at 10 & 2. Strung with Outlast 16/Forten Sweet gold 17 at 32/35 on Klippermate dropweight.

K Blade Team 104, 18x19, 8g total at 3 & 9, 9g in handle. Strung with ogsm 17 at 30 on same machine.

Like the feel, kick serves and volleys on both. Rally shots fine on both. Can't hit aggressively flat with either. Couldn't hit my regular first serve at all with the Rad but could with the K Blade.

I could imagine playing S & V with the blade like this but I wouldn't ever try to hit a hard, flat FH. Would be nice for feeding balls during a lesson though!
 

evanjj

Rookie
Update to this. I now play at 38lbs. Plays awesome in all phases. Some control and power is lost but still plays really good at about 4-5 hrs. I cut at that point and either restring at 38 or 40 to buy a little more time. Day of play I take a fresh 38. Practice sticks I load at 40. This is with genesis tws rzr. I tried hybrid with SPPP,crosses at 35 and did not love it and felt in two racquets a dead spot high on the strings. Out came the scissors !!

The 38 plays awesome in all phases and plays really good until it gets below 30 based on RACQUETTUNE software.

After my post above I went back to 60 for a while and eventually came back to the 38 I had liked best. So much easier to generate power,spin. The defense shots are also effortless and slices awesome. The only thing is to watch before it drops below that point where everything diminishes a bit.

I want to reiterate that because a player adjust to a setup does not mean its not the best setup forbthem. If you start using something different your gonna have an adjustment period regardless if it feels great. Your muscle memory is going to be loaded with previous setup feedback

I have been experementing with gut for the last few months will have a write up on that soon !!

This I want to hear about :)
 
Microgel Rad MP 98, 18x20, ~2g total at 10 & 2. Strung with Outlast 16/Forten Sweet gold 17 at 32/35 on Klippermate dropweight.

K Blade Team 104, 18x19, 8g total at 3 & 9, 9g in handle. Strung with ogsm 17 at 30 on same machine.

Like the feel, kick serves and volleys on both. Rally shots fine on both. Can't hit aggressively flat with either. Couldn't hit my regular first serve at all with the Rad but could with the K Blade.

I could imagine playing S & V with the blade like this but I wouldn't ever try to hit a hard, flat FH. Would be nice for feeding balls during a lesson though!

Thanks for the details! :)

Specs for both rackets are quite close, but it's interesting that you could not hit your first serve with only the Rad. Did the Outlast 16 feel too soft and bouncy? My few ELT experiments with poly or hybrid all did not go too well too.

I just strung and tested another smaller frame (I think it's 90 sq in, 16x19) with exactly the same strings as my PSC6.1 at 30lbs. It played extremely well. this time. I even aced two flat serves!!!

If you could, up the tension a few pounds (maybe 34) on the K Blade. I think you'll feel the control and accuracy come back. 34 lbs worked well on my friend's 16x19, 100 sq in.
 

allenkau

Rookie
32lb - 2013 APD - Volkl Cyclone 17

Picked this string because that's what started this whole thread.

Didn't feel as good as RPM blast 18 on an Head Rad oversize at 33lbs. I think because this racket is so stiff to start with. If I took good Full swings at the ball, I loved it. But swings where my opponent hits the ball deep with spin and I have to hit it on the rise, it was tough when I didn't hit the sweet spot.

I guess what I am saying is that it wasn't very forgiving when I missed the sweet spot.

Slices were freaking awesome of course. No pain in the arms of course.

Do you all feel I should try a different Poly or a different tension? Any recommendations for an 100sq in ultra stiff frame like the APD?
 
Allen,

Several of us have had good success with fullbed syn gut in the 30s :)

It sounds odd but after trying it myself and on a few playing partners, we were all converted. I have not strung one single racket above 35 lbs after that first try.

If you're looking for comfort, a larger sweetspot and perhaps to mitigate the stiffness of the APD, you may be a good candidate to try ELT syn gut.

But as many have shared in the past few pages, there may be a short adaptation needed. If you're afraid 30 lbs to be too low, you can start about 33 or 34 lbs and work your way down gradually?

If you string yourself, it's really a much easier decision too. Let us know?
 
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