Having some issues tieing Pro Knots

Sweet-Spot · Mar 10, 2013

Been trying to change my knots to pro knots recently (so I'm pretty new at it). I probably get 80% of them turning out good, but a small % still aren't turning out as I'd like, and I'm wondering if anyone could give me a heads up on why.

Here are some pics of a racket I restrung last night. The first knot turned out as a pro knot should, but the second one didn't, even though I used the exact same format. Not sure what went wrong

String is Big Banger and racket is a Wilson Hammer HBlaze @ 48 lbs.

This knot turned out good:

This one seems a little weird, doesn't really look like a pro knot:

Sweet-Spot · Mar 10, 2013

Tried the same technique again in a tight space and it also looks a little weird. I have watched Mr10stringer tutorial on this, may have to revisit it again

Deleted member 232704 · Mar 10, 2013

You would need to tighten the half hitch more if i'm looking at it correctly.

Lakers4Life · Mar 10, 2013

PC Knot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X8qYGHOdmQ

g_desilva · Mar 10, 2013

Agree with the above poster - Yulite has a great couple of videos on how to tie knots. From what it looks like, I think the second half of the knot, the tail end of your string is on the "wrong" side of the loop...if that makes sense...

Sweet-Spot · Mar 10, 2013

Lakers4Life said:
PC Knot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X8qYGHOdmQ

Thanks, I don't recall putting it 'through the loop' after I tightened the half hitch. Will try that next time, although I didn't think that would make a big difference in presentation.

His knot kinda looks weird bit it could be the bulky ropes he's using.

pvaudio · Mar 10, 2013

That is because the Pro knot does not go back through one more time. It's not the same knot.

pvaudio · Mar 10, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGQW_ONBPPo

Sweet-Spot · Mar 10, 2013

pvaudio said:
That is because the Pro knot does not go back through one more time. It's not the same knot.

Thanks pvaudio, I was a little confused for a second there. I was told the 'pro knot' was widely used on the circuit and therefore assumed the PC or 'Pro Circuit' know would be the same knot.

Just as an aside, is it usually harder for knots to maintain their shape and be pulled being a poly vs a non poly? Or shouldn't that make any difference?

Lakers4Life · Mar 10, 2013

I only tie this knot when the cross string (main or cross) is too close to the tie off grommet. Where a Parnell knot is too bulky for said tie off.

struggle · Mar 10, 2013

Lakers4Life said:
I only tie this knot when the cross string (main or cross) is too close to the tie off grommet. Where a Parnell knot is too bulky for said tie off.

which one??

Lakers4Life · Mar 11, 2013

tbuggle said:
which one??

PC, Pro, Wilson Knot. Pretty much the same knot.

pvaudio · Mar 11, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
Thanks pvaudio, I was a little confused for a second there. I was told the 'pro knot' was widely used on the circuit and therefore assumed the PC or 'Pro Circuit' know would be the same knot.

Just as an aside, is it usually harder for knots to maintain their shape and be pulled being a poly vs a non poly? Or shouldn't that make any difference?

It does make a difference. Natural gut tends to be bulky and can be cinched up easily by hand. Thin gauge poly, however, tends to knot up much smaller. That said, I use the Pro knot in all applications and have never had a problem.

drakulie · Mar 11, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
I was told the 'pro knot' was widely used on the circuit and therefore assumed the PC or 'Pro Circuit' know would be the same knot.

There are many stringers that utilize this knot, but many use the parnell, or a simple double half-hitch.

As someone else stated, the Pro Knot, Wilson Pro Knot, PC (Pro Circuit) Knot, overhand knot, surgeons knot, one and a half hich, etc.... are all the same knot.

Crozzer95 · Mar 12, 2013

Thought I'd give it a shot at trying some pro knots today stringing Here are my results.

Absolutely loved this new way of doing my knots. definitely wont move away from them

Sweet-Spot · Mar 12, 2013

Looking good MattCrosby! You really cinched thosed up!

Strung another racket this morning. Three of the four knots turned out great but one of them not so good, and I have no idea what I did wrong.

Also I am getting some 'space' in between my knot and the anchor strings even though I am pulling them fairly hard by hand with a starting clamp. Does this mean I am not pulling them hard enough?

Should I be using the machine tension head to tighten my knots?

drakulie · Mar 12, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
Should I be using the machine tension head to tighten my knots?

NO. ..........................

Lakers4Life · Mar 12, 2013

drakulie said:
NO. ..........................

I second, Drakulie's "NO", and add my favorite Bones McCoy quote, "Are you out of your Vulcan mind!"

g_desilva · Mar 12, 2013

The last thing you want to be doing is using the machine to tighten your knot. While you may be okay 9 out of 10 times doing this, there's going to be that one time, that the string is going to break, and you're going to be SOL...

drakulie · Mar 12, 2013

Lakers4Life said:
I second, Drakulie's "NO", and add my favorite Bones McCoy quote, "Are you out of your Vulcan mind!"

LOL,

Sweet-Spot · Mar 12, 2013

lol... I didn't mean pull it all the way - just at a much lower tension until the knot tightens. That being said, point noted

struggle · Mar 12, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
Looking good MattCrosby! You really cinched thosed up!

Strung another racket this morning. Three of the four knots turned out great but one of them not so good, and I have no idea what I did wrong.

Also I am getting some 'space' in between my knot and the anchor strings even though I am pulling them fairly hard by hand with a starting clamp. Does this mean I am not pulling them hard enough?

Should I be using the machine tension head to tighten my knots?

something looks wrong, but i bet that baby holds just fine!

Sweet-Spot · Mar 12, 2013

yeah its holding up just fine.... but cosmetically it just doesn't look like a pro knot compared to the other three I tied and know are correct. Even though I tied it in the same way!

Crozzer95 · Mar 13, 2013

When I do my usual knot, I get alot of tension loss on the frame, one time I strung it up at 54LBS and it went down to around 42 by the end of the 2 hours I'd be hitting for. This one with the Pro Knot, was strung around 8PM last night, and this morning at 9.30AM it hasnt lost a single pound of tension, (if racquettune is true to its word)

So definitely sticking with these new knots

Irvin · Mar 13, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
...This one seems a little weird, doesn't really look like a pro knot:

You are correct that is not a pro knot. The PC, Parnell, and pro knots are all similar and are just overhand knots as is the one you tied.

pvaudio · Mar 14, 2013

g_desilva said:
The last thing you want to be doing is using the machine to tighten your knot. While you may be okay 9 out of 10 times doing this, there's going to be that one time, that the string is going to break, and you're going to be SOL...

TRUST ME, this does happen. It's happened to me before.

pvaudio · Mar 14, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
Looking good MattCrosby! You really cinched thosed up!

Strung another racket this morning. Three of the four knots turned out great but one of them not so good, and I have no idea what I did wrong.

Also I am getting some 'space' in between my knot and the anchor strings even though I am pulling them fairly hard by hand with a starting clamp. Does this mean I am not pulling them hard enough?

Should I be using the machine tension head to tighten my knots?

You have an extra crossing. In knot tying, this move creates a surgeon's knot instead of a square knot. In tennis, I have no idea what it's called, but it's simply an extra secure version.

Sweet-Spot · Mar 14, 2013

MattCrosby said:
When I do my usual knot, I get alot of tension loss on the frame, one time I strung it up at 54LBS and it went down to around 42 by the end of the 2 hours I'd be hitting for. This one with the Pro Knot, was strung around 8PM last night, and this morning at 9.30AM it hasnt lost a single pound of tension, (if racquettune is true to its word)

So definitely sticking with these new knots

I downloaded racketune and I am not so sure how accurate it is. Had my machine calibrated before stringing and after stringing it read about 10 lbs less than what the calibrator said. Nice gimmick but I won't be using it anymore.

pvaudio said:
You have an extra crossing. In knot tying, this move creates a surgeon's knot instead of a square knot. In tennis, I have no idea what it's called, but it's simply an extra secure version.

I always wanted to do medicine. Guess I've got a knack for surgery

Question for the stringing pro's here - if a customer received a racket with an imperfect knot - do you ever get complaints, comments about it? Apart from aesthetics and holding the tension, does a type of knot matter?

g_desilva · Mar 14, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
I downloaded racketune and I am not so sure how accurate it is. Had my machine calibrated before stringing and after stringing it read about 10 lbs less than what the calibrator said. Nice gimmick but I won't be using it anymore.

Question for the stringing pro's here - if a customer received a racket with an imperfect knot - do you ever get complaints, comments about it? Apart from aesthetics and holding the tension, does a type of knot matter?

Racquettune IS an extremely precise application, but it's not necessarily an accurate app. The reason I say this is because racquettune will give you the "relative" tension of your string bed based on an algorithm that extrapolates this information based on the relationship between the recorded frequency, string factor, number of strings, head frame size, etc. It does a great job at recording the frequency and being very precise in relating it to a relative tension. With that said, this is a great app for immediately after you string, to get a relative tension, and then track tension loss as you play...it's never going to give you the exact tension that you string at, unless your string factor calculation is perfect.

Sweet-Spot · Mar 14, 2013

g_desilva said:
Racquettune IS an extremely precise application, but it's not necessarily an accurate app. The reason I say this is because racquettune will give you the "relative" tension of your string bed based on an algorithm that extrapolates this information based on the relationship between the recorded frequency, string factor, number of strings, head frame size, etc. It does a great job at recording the frequency and being very precise in relating it to a relative tension. With that said, this is a great app for immediately after you string, to get a relative tension, and then track tension loss as you play...it's never going to give you the exact tension that you string at, unless your string factor calculation is perfect.

Starting to get off topic now but another reason is everytime I tap the strings, I get a slightly different reading, often 2-3 lbs apart. In the same position using the same item to tap at the same hardness.

It does have other merits though some of the other features are cool but I wouldn't use it for its tension reading capabilities.

v-verb · Mar 14, 2013

Just finished stringing a racquet - HATED tying knots with poly. Huge pain.

And I used the videos on the earlier posts

Irvin · Mar 25, 2013

Sweet-Spot said:
...This one seems a little weird, doesn't really look like a pro knot:

I think I see your problem don't know why I did not notice it before. The knot above does not appear to be a pro knot it looks like a simple half hitch (with a twist.) When you bring the tag end up through the loop created by going over the anchor with the tie off string the tag end should be against the grommet. Everything looks right except, You have the the tag end on the outside of the tie off string that went over the anchor string. That tag end should be under the tie off (between it and the grommet.)

The way you have it tied the tag tip when trimmed will stick out when trimmed instead of resting neatly against the frame. And from this point on if you tie a PC knot, Parnell, or Wilson Pro knot the tag's tip will stick out.

Sweet-Spot · Mar 30, 2013

Thanks Irvin, please forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by 'tag' end?

Irvin · Mar 31, 2013

That is the end of the string, the part you cut off and throw away. The part you use to tension your knot.

EDIT: Wikipedia define it as the working end:
Working end
The active end of a line used in making the knot. May also be called the 'running end', 'live end', or 'tag end'.

Having some issues tieing Pro Knots

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