Can you accept Novak Djokovic as a legend?

Mike Sams · Mar 25, 2013

If Djokovic retires with double digit Slams and is behind only Federer, Sampras and Nadal on the all-time Slams list, would you consider Djokovic not just as an all time great player but a legendary one?
By the looks of it, he MAY retire with the most amount of Australian Open titles in history. But he's got more Slam wins yet and could surpass the 2nd tier of Slam titlists which would put him into the top tier.

MichaelNadal · Mar 25, 2013

Why not? If he earns it he earns it.

The-Champ · Mar 25, 2013

The guy has already 6 majors. That is legendary, if you ask me.

Hood_Man · Mar 25, 2013

6 majors and 2 consecutive years as year end #1, IMO he's there already.

Mike Sams · Mar 25, 2013

Everybody here has disdain towards him. The Federer fans hate his guts and the Nadal fans despise him. People call him fake, people hate his character and don't find him genuine.
That's why I wondered if, regardless of his achievements, would you be disgusted that this guy whom you can't stand would retire with legendary achievements.
Nobody gets more hate than Djokovic on this forum.

MichaelNadal · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams said:
Everybody here has disdain towards him. The Federer fans hate his guts and the Nadal fans despise him. People call him fake, people hate his character and don't find him genuine.
That's why I wondered if, regardless of his achievements, would you be disgusted that this guy whom you can't stand would retire with legendary achievements.
Nobody gets more hate than Djokovic on this forum.

Lol PLEASE. Rafa gets 40x more grief than Novak. I don't like him but he is an AMAZING player and I love watching highlights of him play. Only a troll wouldn't respect what he's brought to the game, he's a guy who lets his racquet do the talking.

Sid_Vicious · Mar 25, 2013

Djokovic is a legend.

I can see where Mike Sams is coming from. I'm not a djokovic fan but I have defended him a lot on this forum for the past few months.

The-Champ · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams said:
Everybody here has disdain towards him. The Federer fans hate his guts and the Nadal fans despise him. People call him fake, people hate his character and don't find him genuine.
That's why I wondered if, regardless of his achievements, would you be disgusted that this guy whom you can't stand would retire with legendary achievements.
Nobody gets more hate than Djokovic on this forum.

Well you can hate the person, but there's no denying, he is a great tennis player. We should try to discern those two things.

I don't like Federer, but damn that boy can play...

MichaelNadal · Mar 25, 2013

The-Champ said:
Well you can hate the person, but there's no denying, he is a great tennis player. We should try to discern those two things.

I don't like Federer, but damn that boy can play...

Exactly, this place would be much better if people can just stop getting internally burned up over players they don't like or respect. The game would suffer without the person they're bashing.

Mike Sams · Mar 25, 2013

MichaelNadal said:
Lol PLEASE. Rafa gets 40x more grief than Novak. I don't like him but he is an AMAZING player and I love watching highlights of him play. Only a troll wouldn't respect what he's brought to the game, he's a guy who lets his racquet do the talking.

Nadal only gets grief because he beats Federer. Djokovic gets grief because he's Djokovic. People on here make personal remarks towards him which don't even relate to tennis. :lol:

jm1980 · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams said:
Nadal only gets grief because he beats Federer. Djokovic gets grief because he's Djokovic. People on here make personal remarks towards him which don't even relate to tennis. :lol:

Djokovic gets grief for showing his emotions, and he doesn't even do it in a disrespectful manner like Nadal.

I can't believe people make such a big deal out of him ripping his shirt off

MichaelNadal · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams said:
Nadal only gets grief because he beats Federer. Djokovic gets grief because he's Djokovic. People on here make personal remarks towards him which don't even relate to tennis. :lol:

The same can be said about Nadal. And even moreso.

timnz · Mar 25, 2013

Nearly there already

Mike Sams said:
If Djokovic retires with double digit Slams and is behind only Federer, Sampras and Nadal on the all-time Slams list, would you consider Djokovic not just as an all time great player but a legendary one?
By the looks of it, he MAY retire with the most amount of Australian Open titles in history. But he's got more Slam wins yet and could surpass the 2nd tier of Slam titlists which would put him into the top tier.

I think he is really close already. I don't think he needs to get to double digit slams to do that. I think maybe only 1 more slam and he is there. McEnroe only got 7 slams (though he got 5 WCT finals as well during which most of the time the Australian wasn't quite up to scratch).

Djokovic is already 10th on the most number of weeks being number 1 in the weekly ATP rankings (since 1973) and will certainly get to 9th in less than 2 months. He has a very solid chance this year of overtaking the time that Agassi (101 weeks) or Nadal (102 weeks) was number 1. Those guys are legends.

In my Open era rankings where I rank players on their achievements in tournaments of Masters 1000 equivalent rank or greater (Basically Masters 1000's + Season end finals + Slam Finalist finishes + Slam wins) - he is already ahead of Wilander and Edberg and looks solid to overtake Becker later this year (he has the same number of slams as Becker, same number of losing slam finals, same number of Masters 1000 equivalents, just behind Becker in season end finals).

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=457984

beast of mallorca · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams said:
If Djokovic retires with double digit Slams and is behind only Federer, Sampras and Nadal on the all-time Slams list, would you consider Djokovic not just as an all time great player but a legendary one?
By the looks of it, he MAY retire with the most amount of Australian Open titles in history. But he's got more Slam wins yet and could surpass the 2nd tier of Slam titlists which would put him into the top tier.

Can you accept Novak Djokovic as a legend?

He is already a legend in his own right. And he will accomplish more in the future.

beast of mallorca · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams;7302784[B said:
]Everybody[/B] here has disdain towards him. The Federer fans hate his guts and the Nadal fans despise him. People call him fake, people hate his character and don't find him genuine.
That's why I wondered if, regardless of his achievements, would you be disgusted that this guy whom you can't stand would retire with legendary achievements.
Nobody gets more hate than Djokovic on this forum.

What are you talking about ? The only one I observe who disdains him is Clarky. The rest may make unflattering remarks every now and then, but just little comments. Now, as far as Rafa is concerned, I can name 10, easily,who has ill will for him and will be gungho crazy with their disdain. So no contest there................:twisted::twisted:

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams said:
If Djokovic retires with double digit Slams and is behind only Federer, Sampras and Nadal on the all-time Slams list, would you consider Djokovic not just as an all time great player but a legendary one?
By the looks of it, he MAY retire with the most amount of Australian Open titles in history. But he's got more Slam wins yet and could surpass the 2nd tier of Slam titlists which would put him into the top tier.

He is a legend to some degree already due to his 2011 season, where he showed a dominance rarely seen against the rest of the field.

But 2011 is fresh in our memory, and I think that to obtain a more lasting status as legend he needs to do more. If he wins the FO and is close enough to Nadal in the slam count, he would definitely be a legend in my book.

Mike Sams · Mar 25, 2013

beast of mallorca said:
What are you talking about ? The only one I observe who disdains him is Clarky. The rest may make unflattering remarks every now and then, but just little comments. Now, as far as Rafa is concerned, I can name 10, easily,who has ill will for him and will be gungho crazy with their disdain. So no contest there................:twisted::twisted:

The disdain for Nadal is purely related to his rivalry with Federer.

DropShotArtist · Mar 25, 2013

Well as you can see, the Nadal fans are ok with him for the time being since what happened in 2012. But as soon as Novak starts dominating their little puppy again, back he'll be on the blacklist. Clockwork! Book it.

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

DropShotArtist said:
Well as you can see, the Nadal fans are ok with him for the time being since what happened in 2012. But as soon as Novak starts dominating their little puppy again, back he'll be on the blacklist. Clockwork! Book it.

And that would explain why your hate for Nadal has been uninterrupted for so long, correct? Because he has owned your little puppy without any interruption for years?

clayman2000 · Mar 25, 2013

2011 was one of the greatest years of all time.

He is also arguably the best returner of all time

He is legend

MichaelNadal · Mar 25, 2013

DropShotArtist said:
Well as you can see, the Nadal fans are ok with him for the time being since what happened in 2012. But as soon as Novak starts dominating their little puppy again, back he'll be on the blacklist. Clockwork! Book it.

You should stop grouping people together unnecessarily. He's a hell of a tennis player, and beating Rafa 60 times straight isn't going to make me say otherwise. When when I was sick of him in 2011, I still respected him.

DropShotArtist · Mar 25, 2013

IgnatusP said:
And that would explain why your hate for Nadal has been uninterrupted for so long, correct? Because he has owned your little puppy without any interruption for years?

I don't hate Nadal for that. I just don't like his attitude on court and gamesmanship. Sure I'm not happy he beats Federer so often, but IMO that's mostly on Federer. Federer is intrinsically better.

beast of mallorca · Mar 25, 2013

DropShotArtist said:
Well as you can see, the Nadal fans are ok with him for the time being since what happened in 2012. But as soon as Novak starts dominating their little puppy again, back he'll be on the blacklist. Clockwork! Book it.

IgnatusP said:
And that would explain why your hate for Nadal has been uninterrupted for so long, correct? Because he has owned your little puppy without any interruption for years?

Well played Ignatus..................:twisted:
Djokovicforthewin hates Rafa to the very core....................:twisted:

Towser83 · Mar 25, 2013

MichaelNadal said:
Lol PLEASE. Rafa gets 40x more grief than Novak. I don't like him but he is an AMAZING player and I love watching highlights of him play. Only a troll wouldn't respect what he's brought to the game, he's a guy who lets his racquet do the talking.

That is true, but Djokovic doesn't have a massive army of fans either, there'slike 5 Djokovic fans and several Fed or Nadal fans who like him as well. Nadal has a lot of fans on this forum, but also a lot of people who hate him. Djokovic is kind of half liked/tolerated by 60% or the forum, about 25% hate and 15% real love. Nadal is about 34% loved, 65% hated with 1% inbetween :lol:

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

DropShotArtist said:
I don't hate Nadal for that. I just don't like his attitude on court and gamesmanship. Sure I'm not happy he beats Federer so often, but IMO that's mostly on Federer. Federer is intrinsically better.

What attitude on court do you mean? Yelling C'Mon when a ball from your opponent goes out, or acting like a spoilt child when things don't go your way?

None of these guys are perfect, and neither are the fans. Fans by definition are fanatic about the players they follow, and fanaticism often breeds ill feelings against your favorite players' opponents. Don't pretend to be above such base feelings, because you aren't. If Nadal had been owned by Federer in all their meetings, I can guarantee you wouldn't waste 2 hours of your life everyday exposing Nadal's insufferable flaws to the world.

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

Towser83 said:
That is true, but Djokovic doesn't have a massive army of fans either, there'slike 5 Djokovic fans and several Fed or Nadal fans who like him as well. Nadal has a lot of fans on this forum, but also a lot of people who hate him. Djokovic is kind of half liked/tolerated by 60% or the forum, about 25% hate and 15% real love. Nadal is about 34% loved, 65% hated with 1% inbetween :lol:

Yes, Nadal's bag has 64% haters, but Djokovic has 1 highly dedicated psycho thinking about him 24 hours a day, and plastering his bedroom with photos of Djokovic with the eyes cut off.

DropShotArtist · Mar 25, 2013

IgnatusP said:
What attitude on court do you mean? Yelling C'Mon when a ball from your opponent goes out, or acting like a spoilt child when things don't go your way?

The attitude where he thinks he has a play on every ball and has an angry sneering look when the opponent hits a clean winner or even an ace. As if he should have had it even when he's 50 feet from the ball, give me a break, even he's not that good, but he thinks he is. That attitude directly contradicts his feigned humbleness off the court. I guess I just prefer more of a straight shooter.

beast of mallorca · Mar 25, 2013

Towser83 said:
That is true, but Djokovic doesn't have a massive army of fans either, there'slike 5 Djokovic fans and several Fed or Nadal fans who like him as well. Nadal has a lot of fans on this forum, but also a lot of people who hate him. Djokovic is kind of half liked/tolerated by 60% or the forum, about 25% hate and 15% real love. Nadal is about 34% loved, 65% hated with 1% inbetween :lol:

25% hate ? That's a bit too much don't you think? The only one I see who openly hates the guy is Carky. The rest of the "hate" that you are saying is mainly brought about by his grinding way and his match with Murray. Haven't really seen anybody make hateful threads against Djoker the way that Rafa has. Just a matter of fact observation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

DropShotArtist said:
The attitude where he thinks he has a play on every ball and has an angry sneering look when the opponent hits a clean winner or even an ace. As if he should have had it even when he's 50 feet from the ball, give me a break, even he's not that good, but he thinks he is. That attitude directly contradicts his feigned humbleness off the court. I guess I just prefer more of a straight shooter.

The alternatives I was giving you were based on Federer's behavior, and not necessarily Nadal's.

Nadal is ultracompetitive, and so is Federer. They show it on court. Nothing wrong with that, either.

DropShotArtist · Mar 25, 2013

IgnatusP said:
The alternatives I was giving you were based on Federer's behavior, and not necessarily Nadal's.

Nadal is ultracompetitive, and so is Federer. They show it on court. Nothing wrong with that, either.

We're not talking about Federer, we're talking about Nadal. Nadal is the most arrogant person on court. It's his true nature and his off court antics are a lie IMO. That's what I don't like.

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

beast of mallorca said:
25% hate ? That's a bit too much don't you think? The only one I see who openly hates the guy is Carky. The rest of the "hate" that you are saying is mainly brought about by his grinding way and his match with Murray. Haven't really seen anybody make hateful threads against Djoker the way that Rafa has. Just a matter of fact observation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Rafa draws way more hate than Djokovic, no doubt about it. If you worshipped some guy as a god, and then here came this guy and beat him up over and over, you would be angry too. It's a natural reaction.

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

DropShotArtist said:
We're not talking about Federer, we're talking about Nadal. Nadal is the most arrogant person on court. It's his true nature and his off court antics are a lie IMO. That's what I don't like.

Watch the IW net handshake between him and Fed, man. Nadal is a nice kid, but he is ultracompetitive. He also hates to lose and never shows fake joy when losing (Federer is that way too).

Also, if you watch AO 2009 trophy ceremony, they show Nadal while Fed is attempting to make his speech before he breaks down, and Nadal's expressions show genuine concern and sadness for Fed. You can't fake that stuff.

Like I said, Nadal and Fed are not good losers because they were born to win, and haven't had enough practice.

Fedfan34 · Mar 25, 2013

He already is a legend. He broke the Fedal stranglehold on slams and major tournaments. But for what its worth, I think tennis aficionados in general would accept him as a legendary player if he had something like 10 slams.

Goosehead · Mar 25, 2013

Mike Sams said:
Everybody here has disdain towards him. The Federer fans hate his guts and the Nadal fans despise him. People call him fake, people hate his character and don't find him genuine.
That's why I wondered if, regardless of his achievements, would you be disgusted that this guy whom you can't stand would retire with legendary achievements.
Nobody gets more hate than Djokovic on this forum.

a lot of people hate him because they think he is taking majors away from either Federer or nadal.

Bryan Swartz · Mar 25, 2013

I'm confused by the OP. I don't even understand the question. Is there some kind of nuanced well-known distinction between 'legend' and 'all-time great'?

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

Bryan Swartz said:
I'm confused by the OP. I don't even understand the question. Is there some kind of nuanced well-known distinction between 'legend' and 'all-time great'?

There is not an official classification, but I think that somebody like Lendl or McEnroe would be an all time great, whereas somebody like Borg would be a legend. That's the way I understand the OP's terminology.

tennisaddict · Mar 25, 2013

There are a few legends and Novak is one of them.

But there is only one supremo.

NEW_BORN · Mar 25, 2013

Djokovic represents a new breed of tennis players, a hybrid form of attack and defence. He may very well go down with a number of records to his name.

But to me he's just a Djok.

Steve0904 · Mar 25, 2013

Bryan Swartz said:
I'm confused by the OP. I don't even understand the question. Is there some kind of nuanced well-known distinction between 'legend' and 'all-time great'?

Well, not really, but personally I think there is a difference between a great player and an all time great or a legend. All time great and legend are the same thing IMO, but great player and legend/all time great are not.

Again IMO, Novak is not a "legend" yet. He is a great player, but I wouldn't call him a legend or an "all time" great.

DropShotArtist · Mar 25, 2013

IgnatusP said:
Watch the IW net handshake between him and Fed, man. Nadal is a nice kid, but he is ultracompetitive. He also hates to lose and never shows fake joy when losing (Federer is that way too).

Also, if you watch AO 2009 trophy ceremony, they show Nadal while Fed is attempting to make his speech before he breaks down, and Nadal's expressions show genuine concern and sadness for Fed. You can't fake that stuff.

Like I said, Nadal and Fed are not good losers because they were born to win, and haven't had enough practice.

I do think Nadal at AO09 was maybe genuine. But all of the other things? His multiple interviews of humility and "I am not the favourite crap"? All lies. Federer is much more honest. Perhaps both are bad losers, but Nadal is worse. Why? Because of his contradictory humbleness off court. Federer is consistent on and off. Consistency is paramount to character.

beast of mallorca · Mar 25, 2013

Steve0904 said:
Well, not really, but personally I think there is a difference between a great player and an all time great or a legend. All time great and legend are the same thing IMO, but great player and legend/all time great are not.

Again IMO, Novak is not a "legend" yet. He is a great player, but I wouldn't call him a legend or an "all time" great.

So you think Edberg and Becker are not legends of tennis ?

Towser83 · Mar 25, 2013

IgnatusP said:
Yes, Nadal's bag has 64% haters, but Djokovic has 1 highly dedicated psycho thinking about him 24 hours a day, and plastering his bedroom with photos of Djokovic with the eyes cut off.

Are you talking of a Djokovic fan, or clarky? :lol:

beast of mallorca said:
25% hate ? That's a bit too much don't you think? The only one I see who openly hates the guy is Carky. The rest of the "hate" that you are saying is mainly brought about by his grinding way and his match with Murray. Haven't really seen anybody make hateful threads against Djoker the way that Rafa has. Just a matter of fact observation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well depends how you classify hate. Sometimes some Nadal fans get so paranoid about Nadal being hated that you can't even cheer for anyone he's playing or make some sort of criticism without being labeled a hater, despite you doing the same for players you actively support. Maybe 25% is too high but I'm not sure when I read the amount of posts saying he's doping, or saying he is a pusher/grinder/boring player. Let's face it, anytime some one says that about Nadal they are considered a hater. There's not really hateful threads about him but plenty of comments from people like Clarky, Vernonbc, MariaRaphael and those are just Nadal fans, there are Federer fans too who hate him.

monfed · Mar 25, 2013

Thrashing Ralph like a ragdoll 7 consecutive times(including 3 grandslams and 4 masters) spanning 3 different surfaces is stuff of legend. Ralph was a shower shy from being handed the Rafail/****** slam in the prime of his career,complete and utter humiliation so much so he had to beg the umpire to stop play,luckily for him the umpire budged.

Steve0904 · Mar 25, 2013

beast of mallorca said:
So you think Edberg and Becker are not legends of tennis ?

Yes that's what I think. If Djokovic retired today I'd have a tough time calling him a legend.

MichaelNadal · Mar 25, 2013

monfed said:
Thrashing Ralph like a ragdoll 7 consecutive times(including 3 grandslams and 4 masters) spanning 3 different surfaces is stuff of legend. Ralph was a shower shy from being handed the Rafail/****** slam in the prime of his career,complete and utter humiliation so much so he had to beg the umpire to stop play,luckily for him the umpire budged.

You're better than this. Don't become a full-fledged troll, it's not cute.

FedExpress17 · Mar 25, 2013

Novak is unquestionably a legend of the sport. One cannot be GOAT of a particular slam and not a legend of the sport

President · Mar 25, 2013

I don't like Djokovic at all but he is definitely an all time great and will probably end up with around 10 slams at least! That's a legendary player in my book, and his style of play (unfortunately, IMO) will probably have more traction with future generations than any player from this era.

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

DropShotArtist said:
I do think Nadal at AO09 was maybe genuine. But all of the other things? His multiple interviews of humility and "I am not the favourite crap"? All lies. Federer is much more honest. Perhaps both are bad losers, but Nadal is worse. Why? Because of his contradictory humbleness off court. Federer is consistent on and off. Consistency is paramount to character.

Nadal is more politically correct, but I often wonder how much of that reveals true self doubt. I don't think Nadal is arrogant at all. He is actually humble, you can even see that with the way he treats his fans.

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

Towser83 said:
Are you talking of a Djokovic fan, or clarky? :lol:

Clarky is one of three people in my ignore list. Does that answer your question?

IgnatusP · Mar 25, 2013

monfed said:
Thrashing Ralph like a ragdoll 7 consecutive times(including 3 grandslams and 4 masters) spanning 3 different surfaces is stuff of legend. Ralph was a shower shy from being handed the Rafail/****** slam in the prime of his career,complete and utter humiliation so much so he had to beg the umpire to stop play,luckily for him the umpire budged.

If Djokovic has thrashed Rafa like a ragdoll, then you can argue that Rafa has spanked Fed like spanking was going out of style. You are one of the guys that derives pleasure from seeing Djoker deliver the vengeance that your own player would never be able to deliver.

Can you accept Novak Djokovic as a legend?

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