Can You Forgive Federer?

Can you forgive Federer for RG 2011?

  • No - He should have tanked or played down to his age to stop Nadal

    Votes: 7 11.9%

  • Yes - I would rather Djokovic have won, but Fed should never tank

    Votes: 22 37.3%

  • Yes - Djokovic is as bad as Nadal and together are an assault against classical tennis

    Votes: 22 37.3%

  • Yes - He should have won the SF, then withdrawn from the final to de-legitimatize Nadal's title

    Votes: 8 13.6%
  • Total voters
    59
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Relinquis said:
wanting your favourite player to lose for the possibility of his main rival losing in the following round is absurd...

you're not really a fan, you're more defined by hating the rival player than anything else... no?
Click to expand...

Well I guess I could say yes and no. The circumstances at RG 2011 were very strange. Above all else I did really want Federer to win, but as bad as Nadal played on clay in 2011 (for his standards), Federer still had virtually no chance to win IMHO. I've just seen it too many times to believe anything different. That ship sailed after RG 2008.

So, because of this, I would've preferred if Novak beat Nadal in the final (which still wasn't a guarantee, but was much more likely) rather than go through the torture that is Federer blowing half the chance he had in the 1st set which was inevitable if you know anything about the Fed-Nadal rivalry especially on clay, and losing the match to Nadal. Above all, I was a bit disappointed we didn't get the "best" possible match in 2011. I do "forgive" Federer however because I watched him play incredible that day.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
zagor said:
I'm not an equal fan of Fed and Novak, Fed has always been my favourite player of all time but besides him I have a number of other players I'm a fan of and since Fed achieved so much (and I don't care one lick about the GOAT debate and whether Nadal will get Fed's slam record and similar) I'd like to see my other favourite players get a piece of the pie.

I also don't think it's a "done deal" Novak will win FO title down the road, tennis is unpredictable, he might get injured, Nadal might be in one of his unstoppable CC forms next year for example etc. so I'd like to see him take it this year when he started CC season so well (of course there's still a ton of CC tennis to be played this season).
Click to expand...

Which is why I put that word in quotation marks, because I wasn't sure.

I understand about your favourite players, and I'm in agreement about Novak's French Open chances. They are good, but it is never really a done deal until it's done. Just like when Fed struggled (probably mostly because) Nadal went out in 2009.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I can forgive Federer anything (except maybe beating Murray in the final of 2012 Wimbledon)! ;)
 
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sbengte

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
Winner !

kragster said:
I think it's amazing that even at 33, Fed was able to dispatch nole in straights plus one set.

The one thing I can never forgive nadal for is he chose to join the tour late to avoid facing prime fed on clay. Where was nadal in 2002, when Fed had already started to play top class tennis? Probably hiding somewhere. To make matters worse he skipped 7 months of the season just because of a post from monfed saying the Rosol loss had scarred him for life. That's completely unprofessional. It's one thing to stay out because of real injury/illness like AIDS , quite another to take a break just because you're a pansy.
Click to expand...

Runner up:

Talker said:
Didn't see the match. Had laundry to do that day.
Click to expand...

Can't believe the number of "serious" replies this thread got. People either didn't read the OP or their sarcasm/trolling detector needs fixing.
 
Marty Cintron

Marty Cintron

Semi-Pro
kragster said:
I think it's amazing that even at 33, Fed was able to dispatch nole in straights plus one set.

The one thing I can never forgive nadal for is he chose to join the tour late to avoid facing prime fed on clay.
Click to expand...

Sorry dude, but at Roland Garros 2011, Federer was 29, not 33.
 
hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
TTMR said:
Honestly, as much as I love and admire Federer, there is one irredeemable act of which he can never be forgiven as far as I am concerned: The fact he defeated Djokovic at RG 2011. Like most Federer fans, I was cheering for Djokovic because I knew what would happen if Federer somehow ended that streak and made the final. At any other tournament, Federer might have had a sliver of hope, but a 32 year old years past his prime against the greatest mud player ever until Djokovic--it wasn't going to happen. Had Djokovic won that match, he would have gone on to end the Nadal reign and expose it for what it really was: a dearth of clay court players post-Kuerten. Nadal likely would have withdrawn for the rest of the year or perhaps retired due to despondency and we could have been saved innumerable boring Nadal vs. Djokovic encounters.

All Federer would have had to do is pick a different serve and Djokovic wouldn't have "got lucky" like he did at the USO. Federer would have prevented Djokovic from completing the calendar slam, salvaging his GOAT legacy while Djokovic would have vanquished the encroaching Nadal.

I don't think I can forgive Federer for undermining his own legacy. I guess he possesses a fault common to a lot of struggling business owners: the inability to delegate. He should have delegated to Djokovic on that shadowy June day. Division of labour should have been observed; sit back and let the Nadal-dispenser do what he does best.
Click to expand...
Is there any truth here?

I cannot find any.
 
P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
zagor said:
Well not everyone but most yes, 99% of TTMR's posts are basically subtle and not so subtle digs at Fed fans and this thread is par for the course.

In his view TW is black and white, on one side we have Fed fanbase which solely consists of Monfeds and Magnuses (and all of us became Fed fans in 2006, disgusting gloryhunters that we are) while on the other side we have repressed minorities (other players' fanbases) which are only concerned with supporting their favourite and never take swipes at Fed/his fans/family etc. or engage in trolling of any sort, fortunately we have TTMR to balance things out and call it as it is.

Of course he's ignoring that:

-A number of Fed fans claim that Fed's 2011 FO performance overall and especially the match against Novak was some of his career best on clay.

-Saying 29-30 Fed is past his prime is only controversial when it comes to Fed, I'm sure TTMR had/has no problem the same being claimed for past greats like say Sampras or Lendl (try telling him Fed beat prime Sampras at Wimbledon for example), people claiming Nadal was a baby until 2008 and will have no problems with people claiming in the future that 29-30 year old Nadal and Murray are past their prime.

-The hypocrisy of some Nadal fans who not only claim Fed wasn't past his prime in 2011 but was also in 2012 and still is to this day all the while claiming Nadal was a baby until 2008 that suddenly got too old in 2011 and/or mostly stick to 2008 as Nadal's mythical peak (of course TTMR ignores that while he constantly makes fun of Fed fans saying Fed's peak lasted 4 years).

-The hypocrisy of some Nadal fans who classify Fed as an extremely overrated, lucky, weak era benefactor but had no problem rooting like crazy for him to beat Novak in 2011 FO SF (seriously, it was a hilarious sight) only to continue with Fed crybaby 2009 AO ceremony pictures, weak era nonsense (business as usual) the moment he did the "dirty" job and/or in general using Nadal beating Fed as an advantage/means to boost Rafa's status when he's compared to other past tennis greats (you see Fed is at the same time a very tough competition and the king of clowns and amateurs).

-Yet another Fedal FO final was something only he and his fellow Nadal fans (both genuine ones and those who just want to see Fed lose like say Pete fanboys in a Nadal fan clothing) wanted to see and is akin to Fed fans enjoying/overrating Fed's Wimbledon finals with Roddick (and I'm doing Andy a diservice here considering how close he came in 2009) which I'm positive TTMR and his ilk found to be utterly boring and classified as something that only Fed gloryhunters can enjoy.

-You can be a fan of multiple players (yes it's possible even if you're the embodiment of evil that is a Fed fan) and could have rooted for Novak in 2011 FO SF because you thought that was the golden opportunity for him to get the career slam and will do so again this year (as I will should Fed and Novak meet, regardless of whether Nadal is still in the tourney or not and I'd say it's a safe bet you will as well).

I could go on and on, specifically about how his precious Nadal fans turned out to be no better than the Fed fans he dislikes so much when Novak started beating Rafa in 2011 (he was called everything from Balkan trash to Lance Armstrong and attention ***** for daring to show emotions on and off court for his grandfather passing) but I'll stop here.



His strong dislike (relatively speaking) of Fed himself and his fans? Why did Aphex make all those similar (but far less verbose) threads back in the day? The answer is pretty simple.
Click to expand...
Much truth there.
 
J

Jake Gittes

Banned
Can you forgive Federer?
Click to expand...

federer-finger-wag.jpg


Sure can! :)
 
TTMR

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Relinquis said:
wanting your favourite player to lose for the possibility of his main rival losing in the following round is absurd...

you're not really a fan, you're more defined by hating the rival player than anything else... no?
Click to expand...

In principle I would concur with the above assessment. However, since 2008, there has been a war declared; a war on traditional, classical power tennis, headed up by Nadal and the corporate machine that back him and his ilk. The goal is to undermine Federer's achievements by keeping them always within reach. They want to 'keep the game relevant' by ensuring someone is always close to his records.

We know this is a manufactured rivalry. The age difference, the string and racquet technology (provided for Nadal by Babolat, a big agent in the aforementioned corporate machine), the non-stop cheating and gamesmanship that lesser pros are punished for but not Nadal and the court slowdown. Anything and everything to tear down Federer and build up Nadal.

Federer did his best, but like all of us, he aged. By 2011 he was five years past his prime and in no shape to do battle with Nadal on the mud.

For those of us that have watched helplessly as Nadal destroyed the sport, finally it was time for him to get a taste of his own medicine, in the form of the godsend known as Novak Djokovic. Djokovic showed Nadal what's good for the goose is good for the gander, too, slaughtering him with impunity on surface after surface.

But did Federer accept this gift? No, he squandered it. He couldn't accept his age, he couldn't accept his immobility, and thought that just maybe this was his moment. Maybe I can forgive Federer for his self-belief, but I can't forgive him for the crime that continues to be perpetrated on this sport in the form of Rafael Nadal. Had Djokovic won, Nadal would have been so disillusioned, he would have joined the poker guild permanently. What a shame how things turned out.
 
J

Jake Gittes

Banned
TTMR said:
In principle I would concur with the above assessment. However, since 2008, there has been a war declared; a war on traditional, classical power tennis, headed up by Nadal and the corporate machine that back him and his ilk. The goal is to undermine Federer's achievements by keeping them always within reach. They want to 'keep the game relevant' by ensuring someone is always close to his records.

We know this is a manufactured rivalry. The age difference, the string and racquet technology (provided for Nadal by Babolat, a big agent in the aforementioned corporate machine), the non-stop cheating and gamesmanship that lesser pros are punished for but not Nadal and the court slowdown. Anything and everything to tear down Federer and build up Nadal.

Federer did his best, but like all of us, he aged. By 2011 he was five years past his prime and in no shape to do battle with Nadal on the mud.

For those of us that have watched helplessly as Nadal destroyed the sport, finally it was time for him to get a taste of his own medicine, in the form of the godsend known as Novak Djokovic. Djokovic showed Nadal what's good for the goose is good for the gander, too, slaughtering him with impunity on surface after surface.

But did Federer accept this gift? No, he squandered it. He couldn't accept his age, he couldn't accept his immobility, and thought that just maybe this was his moment. Maybe I can forgive Federer for his self-belief, but I can't forgive him for the crime that continues to be perpetrated on this sport in the form of Rafael Nadal. Had Djokovic won, Nadal would have been so disillusioned, he would have joined the poker guild permanently. What a shame how things turned out.
Click to expand...

Hey, don't worry. Not all is bad :)

roger-federer-17-grand-slam-trophies.jpg
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Jake Gittes said:
Wake up and smell the roses :) Federer is widely acknowledged as the GOAT. You're welcome to your fantasy, of course.
Click to expand...

He is widely acknowledged as the goat and widely acknowledged that he isn't the goat.

If it were not for Nadal he would undeniably be the goat ....and this is why Nadal is hated by Federer fans....I can't say that I blame them. I would hate Nadal to of I were in their shoes.

As it is now .....whether federer is the goat is merely an opinion which is argued quite fervently all over .

If there would be no Nadal, there would be no debate.
 
J

Jake Gittes

Banned
The Dark Knight said:
He is widely acknowledged as the goat and widely acknowledged that he isn't the goat.

If it were not for Nadal he would undeniably be the goat ....and this is why Nadal is hated by Federer fans....I can say that I blame them.

As it is now .....whether federer is the goat is merely an opinion which is argued quite fervently all over .

Of there would be no Nadal, there would be no debate.
Click to expand...

There will never be an undisputed GOAT. Right now, more people say Federer is the GOAT than anybody else. And not just the general public. Laver, Sampras, Agassi, Borg, McEnroe, Nadal, Roddick, Safin, Navratilova, you name it :) Scream "Nadal, head-to-head" all you like, the FACT is that Federer is the one widely acknowledged as the GOAT.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Jake Gittes said:
There will never be an undisputed GOAT. Right now, more people say Federer is the GOAT than anybody else. And not just the general public. Laver, Sampras, Agassi, Borg, McEnroe, Nadal, Roddick, Safin, Navratilova, you name it :) Scream "Nadal, head-to-head" all you like, the FACT is that Federer is the one widely acknowledged as the GOAT.
Click to expand...

Wrong....if there were no Nadal then Federer would be the undisputed goat by everyone . And he would probably have another 11 slams under his belt ....quite a bit of FO's to boot. There would be no dispute.

As far as of there are more or less Fed proponents ... I don't know ....but that doesn't really matter. Actually the minority is usually right....

Remember Chrostopher Columbus said the world was round . Everyone said he was wrong but he was right.

The reason is that there are more dumb people than smart ones .

I respect that you think he is the Goat .....but even you would have to agree that there is a logical argument against it .....and that is the real reason for hate filled threads like this one .
 
J

Jake Gittes

Banned
The Dark Knight said:
Wrong....if there were no Nadal then Federer would be the undisputed goat by everyone . And he would probably have another 11 slams under his belt ....quite a bit of FO's to boot. There would be no dispute.

As far as of there are more or not I don't know ....but that doesn't really matter. Actually the minority is usually right....

Remember Chrostopher Columbus said the world was round . Everyone said he was wrong but he was right.

The reason is that there are more dumb people than smart ones .

I respect that you think he is the Goat .....but even you would have to agree that there is a logical argument against it .....and that is the real reason for hate filled threads like this one .
Click to expand...

You acknowledged that Federer is widely regarded as the GOAT. And yet you say Federer isn't the GOAT? :lol: The concept of GOAT is abstract. It has no formula. If more people call Federer the GOAT than anybody else, he is the GOAT. I'm sorry if this hurts you but this is the truth. Face it :)
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Jake Gittes said:
You acknowledged that Federer is widely regarded as the GOAT. And yet you say Federer isn't the GOAT? :lol: The concept of GOAT is abstract. It has no formula. If more people call Federer the GOAT than anybody else, he is the GOAT. I'm sorry if this hurts you but this is the truth. Face it :)
Click to expand...

First off you took half my statement and jumped on it.....

I said Fed is widely regarded as the goat AND widely regarded as NOT the goat.

There are two parts to that sentence .

And no I don't agree that of MORE people regard him as the goat then ho is in fact the goat. For example I would think that Mats Wilanders opinion is worth more than all the people here at TW put together .

By the same token although even though many of the greats have said Fed is the goat they have then changed their minds and taken that back.

The truth is at this point it's just a debate as to whether is the goat Ams te only reason for that can be summed up in one word :

Nadal

And therein lies the real reason for the hatred .
 
J

Jake Gittes

Banned
The Dark Knight said:
First off you took half my statement and jumped on it.....

I said Fed is widely regarded as the goat AND widely regarded as NOT the goat.

There are two parts to that sentence .

And no I don't agree that of MORE people regard him as the goat then ho is in fact the goat. For example I would think that Mats Wilanders opinion is worth more than all the people here at TW put together .

By the same token although even though many of the greats have said Fed is the goat they have then changed their minds and taken that back.

The truth is at this point it's just a debate as to whether is the goat Ams te only reason for that can be summed up in one word :

Nadal

And therein lies the real reason for the hatred .
Click to expand...

Read the bolded part again. And then read it once again. And tell me how hilariously silly that sounds :lol:
 
J

Jake Gittes

Banned
The Dark Knight said:
Sounds normal to me .

There are two very wide factions ....

Wide faction #1- says Federer is the GOAT

Wide faction # 2 - says Federer is NOT the GOAT.
Click to expand...

The faction which has the more people is the wide faction. The other isn't. I can't believe I'm having to explain something so simple to you.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Nah can't forgive Federer for making multiple fanbases rather dissatisfied(including the one OP's a part of).
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Jake Gittes said:
The faction which has the more people is the wide faction. The other isn't. I can't believe I'm having to explain something so simple to you.
Click to expand...

No....the term wide is a description of a number of people .

So you can have a wide number of people that think one way and a wide number of people who think another way.

But the bottom line is who cares ? We are not In school.

This is about tennis and the point is there is a huge debate over who the goat is. ....

If Nadal did not stand in Feds way there would be no debate.....and this is why TW fans hate Nadal

They a pissed off ! I don't blame them .
 
J

Jake Gittes

Banned
The Dark Knight said:
No....the term wide is a description of a number of people .

So you can have a wide number of people that think one way and a wide number of people who think another way.

But the bottom line is who cares ? We are not In school.

This is about tennis and the point is there is a huge debate over who the goat is. ....

If Nadal did not stand in Feds way there would be no debate.....and this is why TW fans hate Nadal

They a pissed off ! I don't blame them .
Click to expand...

The only one pissed off is you that Federer is considered the GOAT by the majority of people :)
 
mandy01

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
I was in two minds about it, to be honest. I know the Nadal match would go like it always has but I also felt that Roger could do well by asserting some authority against Novak and I think his FO win is what kept him as the biggest threat to Novak in majors when Novak was tearing up the field. Besides, it's always better to have one nemesis like Nadal than two. Another fact is that Roger played that match so beautifully that you had to love every bit of it and cheer for him. It's one of those days when you know what a champion can do, no matter how much he's supposedly been 'overshadowed.' Whatever happens I know I'll remember that match and that crowd because on that day, Roger gave me some of the most inspiring moments I have found in the game or otherwise.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Jake Gittes said:
The only one pissed off is you that Federer is considered the GOAT by the majority of people :)
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that until you are able to take a vote from
The entire world.....but even so ..... Just because the majority of people vote for someone doesn't make it true. Just take a look at some of the moron presidents this country has voted for.

The fact is there are a lot more dumb people than smart people .

Federer is clearly the most successful player ever .....but that's very different than saying he is the best ever.

This is what the whole debate is about because "greatest"eans different things to different people.

But Federer is unique .....If not for Nadal then federer would be considered the greatest by just about everyone.....

The only thing standing in Federers way for being declared the greatest by multitudes of people throughout the world is : NADAL....

It always comes back to Nadal.... The blemish on Federers record that is the size of MT Rushmore .

And this is the only reason he is hated here at TW . There is a campaign here at TW to blot out the blemish....to diminish it....to cover it up with makeup.....

But it can't be covered ....it's there and it looks like it's there to stay forever .

If Nadal had lost all his matches against Federer there would be zero hatred .
 
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The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Povl Carstensen said:
There is no more hate for Nadal than for Federer, and it is really rather uncommon. You however, succeed in being rather annoying.
Click to expand...

I understand having to deal with reality can be annoying . I don't blame you at all.

But lets have a look at reality :

Here is just a couple of Nadal hate threads with the actual word hate in them ( I can show you much more ):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=44539

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=433013

Now would you care to show me a Federer hate thread ?

You will be hard pressed to find one because Nadal
Fans have the upper hand on Fed and therefore don't really hate him.
On the other hand Fed fans are still in pain and cannot seem to get their revenge
Try as they might with disparaging thread after thread after thread.....

It's a sad case of being sore losers
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Povl Carstensen said:
No, it is not disqualifying to have a loosing H2H against a surface goat, we've been over it quite some times.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion and it's a valid one ; however just as valid is the counter argument that you cannot be the greatest if there is someone that continually beats you . Federer is te only one with a losing record against his main rival .

Both opinions are right and the point is that if there would be no Nadal then Fed would be the undisputed goat.....

Right now as this board shows Federer is very much a hotly disputed goat.....both camps have valid points .....

But again no Nadal and Fed is the undisputed goat ...and that's why there is all this hate .
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
The Dark Knight said:
Federer is clearly the most successful player ever .....but that's very different than saying he is the best ever.

This is what the whole debate is about because "greatest"eans different things to different people.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Success and greatest don't fully have to be 100 mutually exclusive. And this also applies to Nadal, he may be the most successful on clay, but that does not mean he is a clay GOAT. I am sure that with the logic you have shown here, you would agree that Nadal isn't Clay GOAT either.
 
P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
The Dark Knight said:
I respect your opinion and it's a valid one ; however just as valid is the counter argument that you cannot be the greatest if there is someone that continually beats you . Federer is te only one with a losing record against his main rival .
Click to expand...
It is cool enough playing against a surface goat. Your argument is answered by mine. If Nadal was an overall goat contender, it would be something else.
 
P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
The Dark Knight said:
I understand having to deal with reality can be annoying . I don't blame you at all.

But lets have a look at reality :

Here is just a couple of Nadal hate threads with the actual word hate in them ( I can show you much more ):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=44539

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=433013

Now would you care to show me a Federer hate thread ?

You will be hard pressed to find one because Nadal
Fans have the upper hand on Fed and therefore don't really hate him.
On the other hand Fed fans are still in pain and cannot seem to get their revenge
Try as they might with disparaging thread after thread after thread.....

It's a sad case of being sore losers
Click to expand...
Not many testify to hating Nadal, the hate the other way is just as evident among the select few into hating if you look around. One of the threads you present is insinuating hate, not stating it per se, the other one from 2005. Please show me much more threads. As usual you are misrepresenting and overgeneralizing.
Hate against Federer could be explained by Nadal being relegated to a record nr of weeks as nr 2, and thus deprived of a serious goat candidacy by him. It goes both ways. But the whole hate debate is really immature. I am not surprised you are the one to keep bringing it up.
 
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P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
It is on the level of "Have you stopped beating your wife?", "Why do you hate me?", "You hate med because I am better than you", really immature rethorics. The most interesting thing is the intriguing level of The Dark Knights insincereness and the blatant bitternes of some select few posters.
 
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