Marcelo Rios worthy of Hall of Fame?

Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
Here's a guy who was #1 in junior, ATP and ATP Champions Tour. Finaled in Australian Open (lost to a guy who tested positive a few months later), won five Masters series titles, invented a new shot for the game which is still used today by many players - the jumping two handed backhand. Even Federer and Nadal, as great as they are, never were great enough or creative enough to invent a new shot.

Rios' credentials are different and unique but he was an extraordinary talent who may deserve to be a Hall of Famer based on his own incomparable criteria. Roger Federer calls Rios one of his favorite players. Agassi who was 1-2 vs. Rios head to head, has spoken highly of Rios also.

If players like Helena Sukova and Michael Chang are in the Hall of Fame, no disrespect to them, perhaps Rios, a very special and inspiring talent, belongs also.

What you think?
 
forzamilan90

forzamilan90

Legend
I guess he'll get in, he was number 1 after all. I think his character is trash however, poor ambassador to tennis despite aesthetically pleasing game
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
No.

I know TW often takes issue with what some perceive as the the HOF's low standards, but even as low as people believe those standards may be, there's no chance Rios gets in without a Slam.

Yes, he was a great player, and had some intangible qualities. But, I just don't see HOF induction based on the criteria set out by the OP.
 
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Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
forzamilan90 said:
I guess he'll get in, he was number 1 after all. I think his character is trash however, poor ambassador to tennis despite aesthetically pleasing game
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Forza, earning the #1 ranking is remarkable and incredible. I think it's more difficult actually to get to #1 than to win a major title. The large majority of major title winners never came close to achieving the #1 ranking as the BEST player in the world. Rios was THE BESTplayer for six weeks in 1998. Cool photo of George Michael from the Faith album in 1988, saw two of the shows that tour (MSG and The Spectrum), best concert I ever saw.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
bluetrain4 said:
No.

I know TW often takes issue with what some perceive as the the HOF's low standards, but even as low as people believe those standards may be, there's no chance Rios gets in without a Slam.

Yes, he was a great player, and had some intangible qualities. But, I just don't see HOF induction based on the criteria set out by the OP.
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If Sabatini is in for her winning one major and based on her phenomenal beauty, Rios may also deserve to be in based on being #1 in the world and the phenomenal beauty of his artistic game.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Gonzalito17 said:
If Sabatini is in for her winning one major and based on her phenomenal beauty, Rios may also deserve to be in based on being #1 in the world and the phenomenal beauty of his artistic game.
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Obviously, I can't know what the HOF will do. But, you asked for people's opinions and, IMO, he won't get in, regardless of the beauty and artistry of his game.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
Singles-wise there's several, including Helena Sukova, Gi Gi Fernandez, Natasha Zvereva.

What's more impressive - major doubles titles - or achieving the ATP world no. 1 ranking?

That's a no-brainer.
 
forzamilan90

forzamilan90

Legend
Gonzalito17 said:
Forza, earning the #1 ranking is remarkable and incredible. I think it's more difficult actually to get to #1 than to win a major title. The large majority of major title winners never came close to achieving the #1 ranking as the BEST player in the world. Rios was THE BESTplayer for six weeks in 1998. Cool photo of George Michael from the Faith album in 1988, saw two of the shows that tour (MSG and The Spectrum), best concert I ever saw.
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Yeah prime George Michael live is just incredible. My favorite vocalist (and artist) of all time. Silky smooth and divine.
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
His game would get him in, his attitude and results wouldn't.

Ironic thing is, if he did get in, he wouldn't show up.
 
F

fluffyyelloballz

Rookie
Any player who gets to number one, atp or wta, should get into the hall of fame. That should be the minimum achievement. It is a huge deal. How many people get the number one of the 1000s who have played? Very very few.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Going back to 1973 when the rankings were started, Rios is the only No. 1 that hasn't won a Slam, which surprised me.

Before we even get to Rios, I wonder if one-Slam winners like Juan Carlos Ferrero and Carlos Moya, both of who reached No. 1, will get in

I'd assume No 1. and 2-Slam winners like Kafelnikov and Safin will get in in due course.

It's not that I don't think he's worthy. There's definitely good arguments in favor of Rios' inclusion. I just don't think the HOF will do it.

Slam-less No. 1 women are Jankovic, Safina, and Wozniacki.
 
rudester

rudester

Professional
Gonzalito17 said:
Here's a guy who was #1 in junior, ATP and ATP Champions Tour. Finaled in Australian Open (lost to a guy who tested positive a few months later), won five Masters series titles, invented a new shot for the game which is still used today by many players - the jumping two handed backhand. Even Federer and Nadal, as great as they are, never were great enough or creative enough to invent a new shot.

Rios' credentials are different and unique but he was an extraordinary talent who may deserve to be a Hall of Famer based on his own incomparable criteria. Roger Federer calls Rios one of his favorite players. Agassi who was 1-2 vs. Rios head to head, has spoken highly of Rios also.

If players like Helena Sukova and Michael Chang are in the Hall of Fame, no disrespect to them, perhaps Rios, a very special and inspiring talent, belongs also.

What you think?
Click to expand...


Agree......
 
L

lobman

Rookie
forzamilan90 said:
I guess he'll get in, he was number 1 after all. I think his character is trash however, poor ambassador to tennis despite aesthetically pleasing game
Click to expand...

Amen to your comment re his personality. Saw his arrogance and rudeness first-hand at the Memphis tournament back when he was playing. So if Sabatini's beauty helped get her in then Rios' personality should help keep him out! Personally I have mixed feelings as to whether that should be a factor.
 
M

magnut

Hall of Fame
I dont see how his personality and attitude matter. He became #1 end of story along with multiple other achievments.

If jerkoff attitude players like McEnroe, Conners, etc can get in with their attitudes I dont see how you can make it relevant to disqualify someone based on that.

I never got the whole hatred thing for Rios anyways. For the most part the guy didnt really go out of his way to be rude. He is just more private and like his space. When people would invade that space he would brush them off or maybe a little worse on a bad day. He was no worse than Lendl (who could come off a little harsh sometimes).

All the dislike cracks me up a little. Its not like they named the sportsmanship award after him or something. The overwhelming majority of professional tennis players at the elite level are jerks or ignore strangers. Rios was pretty mild IMO. Kind of just quiet and guarded. I followed his career pretty close and a lot of what people say is way over exagerated. I have seen alot worse from guys like Sampras and Federer. I wont even go into Mcenroe and Conners. Courier was kind of an arrogant jerk when he was on top as well...Agassi...etc.

If you like nice guys check out Edberg, Mecir, Wilander, Rafter etc.

Besides...If Serena gets in then attitude doesnt matter one bit. Has there been any other players to repeatedly threaten linespeople and umpires who got HOF status?

HOF is becoming a joke. Its all politics now. One step closer to ground zero for tennis. Someday Kournakova will be inducted along with Serena and thats when you will know the sport has gone the way of the NBA
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
Rabbit said:
His game would get him in, his attitude and results wouldn't.

Ironic thing is, if he did get in, he wouldn't show up.
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This. He's my favorite player ever, game wise, but he doesn't care about anything. He'd probably leave his Hall of Fame plaque in the taxi on the way back to the airport or toss it into some shrubs after the ceremony.

His award speech would be "Thanks".
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
magnut said:
I dont see how his personality and attitude matter. He became #1 end of story along with multiple other achievments.

If jerkoff attitude players like McEnroe, Conners, etc can get in with their attitudes I dont see how you can make it relevant to disqualify someone based on that.

I never got the whole hatred thing for Rios anyways. For the most part the guy didnt really go out of his way to be rude. He is just more private and like his space. When people would invade that space he would brush them off or maybe a little worse on a bad day. He was no worse than Lendl (who could come off a little harsh sometimes).

All the dislike cracks me up a little. Its not like they named the sportsmanship award after him or something. The overwhelming majority of professional tennis players at the elite level are jerks or ignore strangers. Rios was pretty mild IMO. Kind of just quiet and guarded. I followed his career pretty close and a lot of what people say is way over exagerated. I have seen alot worse from guys like Sampras and Federer. I wont even go into Mcenroe and Conners. Courier was kind of an arrogant jerk when he was on top as well...Agassi...etc.

If you like nice guys check out Edberg, Mecir, Wilander, Rafter etc.

Besides...If Serena gets in then attitude doesnt matter one bit. Has there been any other players to repeatedly threaten linespeople and umpires who got HOF status?

HOF is becoming a joke. Its all politics now. One step closer to ground zero for tennis. Someday Kournakova will be inducted along with Serena and thats when you will know the sport has gone the way of the NBA
Click to expand...

Well said. Even Federer, who will get in first ballot, showed a lot of bad behavior on the court early in his career, throwing the racquets everywhere, sometimes after every point he lost, from what I've read. Nastase, Connors, McEnroe were horrendously behaved at times during their careers, far worse than Rios ever did on the court. Very good points.

Sure, Rios did tank on occasion but he was not nearly as rude and crude as some of the other Hall of Famers.
 
G

Gemini

Hall of Fame
The problem with Rios is that so much of what he's done on the court is over-shadowed by personality on and off court. You can't deny that he's had some good results, but the subjective portion of what may get someone into the HOF is not in his favor. He'll make it in eventually...but it may take longer than other "good guy" players.
 
heninfan99

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
I guess it would be hard to offer it to him if he has no interest. I have hard time imagining him giving a positive acceptance speech. What would he say? "I've always hated the media and journalists and most of you in the audience but I liked playing sometimes. Thanks." hehehe
 
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Relinquis

Relinquis

Hall of Fame
Gonzalito17 said:
If you ever go to Newport, Rhode Island and visit the grounds and the museum, you'd care.
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would take more than that to get me to Rhode Island... ;)

Rios never cared what people thought of him, especially a bunch of suits. He was a competitor, a winner and a tennis genius / artist. Tennis greats have applauded him, he is above hall of fame.

_1765887_020117rios150.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3zU12jp-Mo

heninfan99 said:
I guess it would be hard to offer it to him if he has no interest. I have hard time imagining him giving a positive acceptance speech. What would he say? "I've always hated the media and journalists and most of you in the audience but I liked playing sometimes. Thanks." hehehe
Click to expand...

classique...
 
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N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Hell no. Not even close. It is amazing how low the HOF standards are that Dementieva and Rios and Myskina fans are even wondering about their possible inclusions. Talent wise Rios is worthy of HOF, but achievements wise not even close.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
NadalAgassi said:
Hell no. Not even close. It is amazing how low the HOF standards are that Dementieva and Rios and Myskina fans are even wondering about their possible inclusions. Talent wise Rios is worthy of HOF, but achievements wise not even close.
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Chang and Sabatini, Zvereva and Gigi, Sukova too all made it. Rios also deserves the same respect. Rios was an important player in tennis history.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
Relinquis said:
i know... the funny thing is, he was probably right. haha!
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Rios could create shots nobody had ever seen before or knew existed. That's an artist.

The Hall should be for such innovative type players along with the glorified grinders like Chang, etc. IMO
 
heninfan99

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Amazing touch and God given talent though many on the tour saw it otherwise. I believe Sampras said he was simply a "less powerful Agassi".
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
Maybe, but I can see why he wouldn't be allowed as well.
 
Devilito

Devilito

Hall of Fame
Lets not kid ourselves. He has some good results on clay and slow hard courts during a couple of years time span which was a bit of a transitional period when slow court players like Courier, Bruguera and Muster were on their way out and Petros and Andre were slowing down. Becker was almost done and Edberg was long gone. He never stood the test of time and "potential" shouldn't be enough to get you into the HoF. He was an amazing player and should probably be in the HoF but he's a bit over-rated on TW
 
M

magnut

Hall of Fame
Devilito said:
Lets not kid ourselves. He has some good results on clay and slow hard courts during a couple of years time span which was a bit of a transitional period when slow court players like Courier, Bruguera and Muster were on their way out and Petros and Andre were slowing down. Becker was almost done and Edberg was long gone. He never stood the test of time and "potential" shouldn't be enough to get you into the HoF. He was an amazing player and should probably be in the HoF but he's a bit over-rated on TW
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LOL...yeah he was in a weak era. Back during the Rios peak there were five or six guys in contention for every major on every surface and unlike now the surfaces played drastically different.

Anyways...the guy got to #1. If thats not worthy of the Hall of Fame then I am not sure what is. In the end he was the best tennis player on the planet for a time and held the #1 ranking longer than most in that era considering how many got it IE Kafelnikov, Rafter, Moya.

What was he in actual height probably 5'7". I think he was probably the shortest #1 in the open era. You wont get that without some serious talent. Especially with the depth in that particular Era on all the different surfaces.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
heninfan99 said:
Amazing touch and God given talent though many on the tour saw it otherwise. I believe Sampras said he was simply a "less powerful Agassi".
Click to expand...

Then how did Rios beat Agassi twice out of 3 matches, and if not for a bad knee would have probably straight setted Agassi in the SF of 2002 Miami after winning the first set 7-6.

Rios was a lot more than a less powerful version of Agassi.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
magnut said:
LOL...yeah he was in a weak era. Back during the Rios peak there were five or six guys in contention for every major on every surface and unlike now the surfaces played drastically different.

Anyways...the guy got to #1. If thats not worthy of the Hall of Fame then I am not sure what is. In the end he was the best tennis player on the planet for a time and held the #1 ranking longer than most in that era considering how many got it IE Kafelnikov, Rafter, Moya.

What was he in actual height probably 5'7". I think he was probably the shortest #1 in the open era. You wont get that without some serious talent. Especially with the depth in that particular Era on all the different surfaces.
Click to expand...

There never was and never will be a "weak era" in the ATP. Every match, every point is a dogfight. Rios never got any free points and earned them all with some incredible displays of world dominant tennis. To become the world no. 1 in ATP is just an amazing feat, the ultimate feat in tennis, really. Winning Wimbledon is probably no. 2.
 
heninfan99

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
I doubt Sampras knew that statistic but just went by how he played him on the court.


Gonzalito17 said:
Then how did Rios beat Agassi twice out of 3 matches, and if not for a bad knee would have probably straight setted Agassi in the SF of 2002 Miami after winning the first set 7-6.

Rios was a lot more than a less powerful version of Agassi.
Click to expand...
 
SAFINATORZ

SAFINATORZ

Hall of Fame
Rios should not be in the hall of fame. AS it is they are letting people are one slam wonders! which I think is atrocious !!
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
Devilito said:
Lets not kid ourselves. He has some good results on clay and slow hard courts during a couple of years time span which was a bit of a transitional period when slow court players like Courier, Bruguera and Muster were on their way out and Petros and Andre were slowing down. Becker was almost done and Edberg was long gone. He never stood the test of time and "potential" shouldn't be enough to get you into the HoF. He was an amazing player and should probably be in the HoF but he's a bit over-rated on TW
Click to expand...

Did James Dean the actor stand the test of time? Did Joe Namath? No, but their best work in a short span was so overwhelmingly special and remarkable, that it did stand the test of time.

The brilliance of Rios from 1997-1998-1999 is still remembered fondly by many fans worldwide, including Roger Federer.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
SAFINATORZ said:
Rios should not be in the hall of fame. AS it is they are letting people are one slam wonders! which I think is atrocious !!
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Well, voting Rios into the Hall of Fame might stir up some controversy, which is always good for ticket sales and media coverage )

Bottom line, Rios deserves to be in the Hall if Sukova, Gigi, Chang, Zvereva, Mal Anderson are in.
 
mightyrick

mightyrick

Legend
magnut said:
Anyways...the guy got to #1. If thats not worthy of the Hall of Fame then I am not sure what is. In the end he was the best tennis player on the planet for a time and held the #1 ranking longer than most in that era considering how many got it IE Kafelnikov, Rafter, Moya.
Click to expand...

Does Caroline Wozniacki belong in the ITF hall of fame?
 
SAFINATORZ

SAFINATORZ

Hall of Fame
Marcelo doesn't deserve to be, I don't think anyone is going to vote him in. If he had won a GS or two then there's no denying that he deserves to be in the HOF. Dude had a lot of game, should've won multiple GS's

The players you had mentioned, have all won GS except for Rios.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Gonzalito17 said:
Chang and Sabatini, Zvereva and Gigi, Sukova too all made it. Rios also deserves the same respect. Rios was an important player in tennis history.
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Sabatini won the U.S Open, 2 YECs (the biggest non slam event), made 18 slam semis, and was year end top 3 four times in five years.

Zvereva and Gigi Fernandez were inducted as a doubles team only. They won something like 14 doubles slams together. They are the winningest team in womens doubles in the Open Era after only Navratilova and Shriver.

Sukova has not been inducted as far as I know, but if she does get in it is due to a combination of many doubles slams and 4 slam singles finals.

Chang should not have gotten in even under the lax HOF standards. He got in mostly due to being a big influence on Asian tennis I suspect. He did win 7 Masters and reach 4 slam finals though, and won 34 tournaments. Of course he has a slam. So even his credentials are far beyond Rios despite Rios reaching #1.

No singles only player who couldnt even win a slam should be anywhere near the HOF, even with how low they let the standards fall.


Players like Kafelnikov and Conchita Martinez havent even made it into the Hall of Fame yet, and their careers are in another league from Rios.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
magnut said:
Anyways...the guy got to #1. If thats not worthy of the Hall of Fame then I am not sure what is.
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So I guess Wozniacki, Safina, and Jankovic should make the HOF too. What will be next, inducting the Jensen family into the HOF (including the sister since she made the final of some 8 women tournament where her first 2 opponents withdrew or defaulted and got 2 games off a Maleeva sister in the final), or anyone who reaches the quarters of a slam ever.
 
heninfan99

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah it could open up the flood gates. Cedric Pioline was accomplished and if he had a week at #1 would that put him in the HOF?

If it's just about who we like then I would construct a giant bronze statue of Goran in front of the HOF and you'd have to rub his privates to enter --for good luck of course AND it would all be protected by a dragon.

NadalAgassi said:
So I guess Wozniacki, Safina, and Jankovic should make the HOF too. What will be next, inducting the Jensen family into the HOF (including the sister since she made the final of some 8 women tournament where her first 2 opponents withdrew or defaulted and got 2 games off a Maleeva sister in the final), or anyone who reaches the quarters of a slam ever.
Click to expand...
 
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N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Exactly. Yannick Noah should be the absolute worst (as far as achievements, not talent, although in his case he isnt extraordinary in either) to ever be inducted to the Hall of Fame. They have let the standard slip gradually lower bit by bit by going with an at the time borderline case, and each time you do that the standard slips a little bit more. I understand the Hall of Fame doesnt have alot of money and needs as many inductees as they can, but now they have enough that they can raise the standards back up a bit, atleast never again allow anyone of Noah level or below, or even below Chang and Novotna level, into the Hall ever again.
 
Gonzalito17

Gonzalito17

Banned
The Noah story is miraculous though, kid from Africa spotted at a clinic by Ashe who recognized his talent, sent to France, trained and developed into a winner of the French Open. I have no problem with Noah being inducted.

Nor would I argue if Isner & Mahut were elected together based on that one match. You know, that really long match at Wimbledon.

I think there should be all kinds of criteria to be considered for the Hall of Fame, it should not be just about winning as many majors as possible. That's restrictive and boring. Tennis is a creative sport.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Gonzalito17 said:
Bottom line, Rios deserves to be in the Hall if Sukova, Gigi, Chang, Zvereva, Mal Anderson are in.
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As an amateur, Mal Anderson won the 1957 US Championships at Forest Hills as an unseeded player, beating Ashley Cooper. As a professional, Anderson won the 1959 Wembley Pro, after beating players like Frank Sedgman, Ken Rosewall and Pancho Segura. This was the tournament of his life. In the open era, Anderson reached the final of the 1972 Australian Open, losing to Rosewall.

Anderson also won doubles majors, both men's doubles and mixed doubles.
 
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