So what do you think a 4.0?

newpball · Jul 12, 2013

So what do you think a 4.0/4.5/5.0?

I was just browsing on YouTube and landed on this video:

http://youtu.be/8CbgWqh_9BQ

Observing the player at the far side of the court, serve not super impressive, forehand OK, a little rough, and backhand pretty solid.

Would you guess this player a 4.0?

Looks like a little under rated?

What do you all think?

I am curious.

Now this video:
http://youtu.be/ltGD-_nNDnw

Player in the dark cloths a 4.5?

Looks like a 'little' over rated?

Then this one, so this must be a 5.0?
http://youtu.be/BwHaBK6yM2k

Perhaps my eyes are failing me.....:shock:

Makes any sense to you folks?

Curious (and a bit bored)

bt johnson · Jul 12, 2013

6 players on the court and 5 of them are terrible and I would absolutely destroy. Only one decent player, quite obviously the white shirt 4.0 who grunts

roman40 · Jul 12, 2013

I think in all cases the rating makes sense.
1) Strong 4.0. Good forehand, defensive backhand, average serve.
2) Weak 4.5 pusher. Short and consistent strokes, keeps the ball deep.
2) Match of 4.5 (white shirt) against 5.0. Both have a strong serve and can attack on both sides (forehand and backhand). The 5.0 probably didn't play at 100%.

You have to realize that 4.5 rating starts at strong 4.0 and ends with weak 5.0, it's a big range. Same goes for other ratings.

goober · Jul 13, 2013

#1) Guy in white looks better than a 4.0 to me. The other guy doesn't look as strong and probably is a mid to low 4.0

#2) This video was sped up in parts. Guy in white looks he could be 4.5 The guy in black looks like a pushing defensive with unorthodox strokes. But he is pretty consistent. I have seen players that look like this that have 4.5 ratings but I would guess he would be on the lower end

#3) The 5.0 in black had better strokes but it almost look like he wasn't trying that hard. They both don't look that great in this vid but I wouldn't say they are incorrectly rated without seeing them in person.

goober · Jul 13, 2013

bt johnson said:
6 players on the court and 5 of them are terrible and I would absolutely destroy. Only one decent player, quite obviously the white shirt 4.0 who grunts

I love posts like this. Brag about yourself and don't bother addressing the question.

purple-n-gold · Jul 13, 2013

1st vid the guy grunting creaming fh's is 4.5

2nd vid looks like 4.0 tennis to me

haven't got to 3rd one..

tennisnut123 · Jul 13, 2013

In Florida the guys from the first video would be 3.5's...Second video both men would be weak 4.0s, look at the lack of footwork, and the third video looks to be weak 4.5s. Thats how I think they would stack up in Florida, which is where I am.

gameboy · Jul 13, 2013

A bunch of 3.0's at best.

HunterST · Jul 13, 2013

The players in the first video look above 4.0 to me. More like 4.5. Their strokes and footwork look more like good junior players. Although, this is surely what most 4.0s THINK they look like on court.

Unless these players are the type that have very good strokes and athleticism for their level but play low percentage tennis and make poor decisions, I'd say they're 4.5s.

LeeD · Jul 13, 2013

To me, all are good recent bumpup 4.0's, none near the top, all lacking an allcourt game, no real serve weapons, and all have some work before being competitive with real 4.5's.

pmichaelmd · Jul 13, 2013

Video 1: white shirt grunter seems to be a mid to better 4.5 with a weak, but consistent, serve. His opponent appears to be an average 4.0
Video 2: both players have very average serves, but seem consistent on their groundies. Would call them both mid- to high 4.0s.
Video 3: better footwork, not strong on the serves, but consistent. Would call them low 4.5s.

Always difficult to rate from video clips, at least for me. So much missed by not seeing live action in person.

PMMD

RoddickAce · Jul 13, 2013

HunterST said:
The players in the first video look above 4.0 to me. More like 4.5. Their strokes and footwork look more like good junior players. Although, this is surely what most 4.0s THINK they look like on court.

Unless these players are the type that have very good strokes and athleticism for their level but play low percentage tennis and make poor decisions, I'd say they're 4.5s.

I agree with your assessment. The video is cut and edited to include good points, but if they play like that on most points, then they are above 4.0 in my opinion.

LeeD · Jul 13, 2013

?????
If the vido is cut, then the bad points are cut.
If the bad points really do count in tennis, those guys are just average to lower level 4.0's.

josofo · Jul 13, 2013

LeeD said:
To me, all are good recent bumpup 4.0's, none near the top, all lacking an allcourt game, no real serve weapons, and all have some work before being competitive with real 4.5's.

white shirt grunter looks rather tough even with the soft serve.

LeeD · Jul 13, 2013

While the standard of 4.0 play is certainly different for all the different players, none really stand out as someone who is knocking on the 4.5 door.
A good 4.5 will take advantage of weak poorly strategically placed serves, or weak returns from either side.
And height of ball over the net generally shows weak hitting, so no passing shots are ever a threat to good net play.
What we are relegated to seeing is strong 3.5's from 3 years ago, now 4.0's due to the bump up, no weapons whatsoever, and generic baseline play with no power or precise placements.
So, YOU guys say 4.0's cannot serve 115mph? You are correct, none of those guys can serve OR have a second serve weapon.

josofo · Jul 13, 2013

goober said:
#1) Guy in white looks better than a 4.0 to me. The other guy doesn't look as strong and probably is a mid to low 4.0

#2) This video was sped up in parts. Guy in white looks he could be 4.5 The guy in black looks like a pushing defensive with unorthodox strokes. But he is pretty consistent. I have seen players that look like this that have 4.5 ratings but I would guess he would be on the lower end

#3) The 5.0 in black had better strokes but it almost look like he wasn't trying that hard. They both don't look that great in this vid but I wouldn't say they are incorrectly rated without seeing them in person.

this seems rather fair.

dont really feel like watching the 3rd vid. but id say the 2 i question the most r white shirt (in first vid) is a 4.5 and black shirt in 2nd vid to me is a high 4.0.

LeeD · Jul 13, 2013

Don't matter.
Player can only be judged by the vid provided.
If the player has a stomach ache, his Dad just died an hour ago, his car got impounded when he drove up to the courts, and his girlfriend just left him, we can still ONLY judge his play by the video provided.

storypeddler · Jul 13, 2013

newpball said:
I was just browsing on YouTube and landed on this video:

http://youtu.be/8CbgWqh_9BQ

Observing the player at the far side of the court, serve not super impressive, forehand OK, a little rough, and backhand pretty solid.

Would you guess this player a 4.0?

Looks like a little under rated?

What do you all think?

I am curious.

Now this video:
http://youtu.be/ltGD-_nNDnw

Player in the dark cloths a 4.5?

Looks like a 'little' over rated?

Then this one, so this must be a 5.0?
http://youtu.be/BwHaBK6yM2k

Perhaps my eyes are failing me.....:shock:

Makes any sense to you folks?

Curious (and a bit bored)

This is just an opinion because I know for a fact you can't always judge NTRP level based on form or quality of stroke production. Strategy, tactics, endurance, mental toughness, and a number of other things factor in.

Having said that, I would say the first guy is a fairly solid 4.0 player.

The second guy COULD be rated 4.5, but it would have to be because of something we are not seeing in the video. His strokes are unimpressive and not threatening in any fashion I can see. His game resembles a pusher's game, but I didn't see anything beyond that to justify a 4.5 rating---no big shots or any sort. I would personally not expect him to be any better than a middling 4.0 at best, maybe lower than that. Hard to tell from a short clip and the style he has.

Watching the last video, I personally didn't see anything from either guy that would make me think "5.0 player". I thought even 4.5 would be pushing it a bit.

Just an opinion.

storypeddler · Jul 13, 2013

LeeD said:
Don't matter.
Player can only be judged by the vid provided.
If the player has a stomach ache, his Dad just died an hour ago, his car got impounded when he drove up to the courts, and his girlfriend just left him, we can still ONLY judge his play by the video provided.

Exactly. And that is why the eye test for judging rating levels is virtually worthless for any practical purpose.

I could be having the magical match of a lifetime where every shot I attempt falls one inch inside the line for a dead winner. Or I could be having the worst day of my life when I could not buy the most basic forehand and NOTHING is going in. The same player is often capable of looking like anything from a 3.5 to a 5.0 on any given day depending on circumstances, weather, opponent, injuries, fitness level, and a host of other factors. It's interesting to evaluate, but no way to know if we are even close to the truth with such a small sample of play.

josofo · Jul 13, 2013

storypeddler said:
Exactly. And that is why the eye test for judging rating levels is virtually worthless for any practical purpose.

I could be having the magical match of a lifetime where every shot I attempt falls one inch inside the line for a dead winner. Or I could be having the worst day of my life when I could not buy the most basic forehand and NOTHING is going in. The same player is often capable of looking like anything from a 3.5 to a 5.0 on any given day depending on circumstances, weather, opponent, injuries, fitness level, and a host of other factors. It's interesting to evaluate, but no way to know if we are even close to the truth with such a small sample of play.

this is more of a response to leed than you. leed i have seen you rank players when not asked. (the british kid) who is rated 4.5 you rated 3.5. so you cant claim you have this great ability to rate people and when you are wrong say well you looked really bad in your youtube video.

the one poster in that thread saw that the kid made like 30 shots in a row at one point so he rated him 4.5. so this goes to show that you 1) dont really have a great grasp of rating people based on youtube videos and 2) are kind of a dick about it when proven wrong.

gmatheis · Jul 13, 2013

storypeddler said:
Exactly. And that is why the eye test for judging rating levels is virtually worthless for any practical purpose.

I could be having the magical match of a lifetime where every shot I attempt falls one inch inside the line for a dead winner. Or I could be having the worst day of my life when I could not buy the most basic forehand and NOTHING is going in. The same player is often capable of looking like anything from a 3.5 to a 5.0 on any given day depending on circumstances, weather, opponent, injuries, fitness level, and a host of other factors. It's interesting to evaluate, but no way to know if we are even close to the truth with such a small sample of play.

I have to disagree ... I think if you objectively look at a person playing a match (not hitting against a wall or with a coach or a ball machine) you can get a rough idea of their level. Someone who looks like a 3.0 one day will not look like a 5.0 the next day, that's just not going to happen.

Yes you could be having the match of your life but lets face it what are the odds of that? odds are that at any given time you are performing relatively close to your true level.

Part of the problem is that a lot of people on these boards just look at what a player's form looks like and they ignore depth, pace, court positioning, consistency, shot selection etc.

Wilson6-1 · Jul 13, 2013

Can't believe that someone rated the first player a 3.5. Typical "rate this player" thread.

josofo · Jul 13, 2013

gmatheis said:
I have to disagree ... I think if you objectively look at a person playing a match (not hitting against a wall or with a coach or a ball machine) you can get a rough idea of their level. Someone who looks like a 3.0 one day will not look like a 5.0 the next day, that's just not going to happen.

Yes you could be having the match of your life but lets face it what are the odds of that? odds are that at any given time you are performing relatively close to your true level.

Part of the problem is that a lot of people on these boards just look at what a player's form looks like and they ignore depth, pace, court positioning, consistency, shot selection etc.

in the 4.0 league i play with he would certainly be firmly entrenched. in singles we have one college kid who is good (plus me and the guy i lost too) but none of the other guys who play singles would beat him. some of the doubles only players can play doubles with him.

goober · Jul 13, 2013

pmichaelmd said:
Video 2: both players have very average serves, but seem consistent on their groundies. Would call them both mid- to high 4.0s.

PMMD

Well you might know the guy in vid #2. He gives his name at the very end of the clip and says he won the 4.5 league championship and he is in Atlanta. Not sure what league he is referring to, but often 4.5s in most locales that play leagues and tourneys know each other because they are not a huge group.

gregor.b · Jul 14, 2013

newpball said:
I was just browsing on YouTube and landed on this video:

http://youtu.be/8CbgWqh_9BQ

Observing the player at the far side of the court, serve not super impressive, forehand OK, a little rough, and backhand pretty solid.

Would you guess this player a 4.0?

Looks like a little under rated?

What do you all think?

I am curious.

Now this video:
http://youtu.be/ltGD-_nNDnw

Player in the dark cloths a 4.5?

Looks like a 'little' over rated?

Then this one, so this must be a 5.0?
http://youtu.be/BwHaBK6yM2k

Perhaps my eyes are failing me.....:shock:

Makes any sense to you folks?

Curious (and a bit bored)

Wow. Those guys in the second vid have got some of the ugliest and most ineffectual strokes I have ever seen. But DAYUM, they are fast!

SweetH2O · Jul 14, 2013

goober said:
Well you might know the guy in vid #2. He gives his name at the very end of the clip and says he won the 4.5 league championship and he is in Atlanta. Not sure what league he is referring to, but often 4.5s in most locales that play leagues and tourneys know each other because they are not a huge group.

The flex league named League Tennis in Atlanta is known for having inflated ratings. Many players can do well one level up from their USTA rating in League Tennis.

I looked up the name in the video in tennislink and believe I found a match. He was an average 4.0 USTA player at the time of this video, and has since become a top-tier 4.0 player. But he has always played 4.0 in USTA from 2011 through today.

goober · Jul 14, 2013

SweetH2O said:
The flex league named League Tennis in Atlanta is known for having inflated ratings. Many players can do well one level up from their USTA rating in League Tennis.

I looked up the name in the video in tennislink and believe I found a match. He was an average 4.0 USTA player at the time of this video, and has since become a top-tier 4.0 player. But he has always played 4.0 in USTA from 2011 through today.

ok that makes sense considering I won a 4.5 flex league as a mid level 4.0 player once. I don't think it was false advertising as he did win what he said he did, the context just wasn't clear.

LeeD · Jul 14, 2013

Josofo....
YOU knew the kid was better somehow.
I saw the first tape, the second was not posted yet.
Based solely on the first tape, not knowing who the kid is, not seeing the second tape, seeing the jerky uplifting racket, seeing the soft, high, really slow FED balls, and seeing the kid hit slow high weak balls, he would be rated 3.5 in anyone's book.
THREE POINT FIVE!
Based on the vid HE posted.
Plenty of 3.5's can hit 20 rally balls with topspin, if they are feed short, slow, high, and weak balls.

JoelDali · Jul 14, 2013

I see rising 5.0 potential.

sam_p · Jul 14, 2013

His serve looks like its 127-130 mph though ;D

cknobman · Jul 15, 2013

Video 1: White shirt is no 4.0 (at least in my area) and more of a 4.5. Hits forehand way too hard and consistent for a 4.0.

Video 2: Look like average 4.5. Black shirt is just a good pusher and would likely get beaten by most good 4.5's.

Video 3: Dont watch enough 5.0 play to have any real opinion.

So what do you think a 4.0?

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