Observations on Fed with new frame

wangs78

wangs78

Legend
It's too early to say whether this new racquet will help Federer. Clearly he thinks that the new racquet *COULD* help which is why he is trying it now.

I will say that he looks funny with this new racquet. Fed and the classic small-head box beam Pro Staff go together like bacon and eggs. It's almost as if it's no longer Fed but some imposter with a different racquet! Sigh... all good things come to an end I guess.
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
nikdom said:
What???? The larger surface area is mostly air between strings.

I play a one hander too and I switch between a Yonex RDS 001 Mid/PS 85 and a Yonex RDS 003 (98 sq in) for singles/doubles play. Never encountered what you're saying. In fact the swing speed is faster with a larger head because the racquet is lighter overall.

The only difference I see is one of plow through and stability. Smaller heads have more weight concentrated in a smaller area.
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What Polaris said is true. Bigger racquets are just more cumbersome and less maneuverable just due to the physical fact that larger objects get in your way more than smaller objects do. The larger hoop, bigger stringbed so more total string lengths, and usually the wider beams of larger racquets all contribute to more aerodynamic drag when swinging the racquet. Of course, I'm comparing racquets of equal swingweights.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
BreakPoint said:
What Polaris said is true. Bigger racquets are just more cumbersome and less maneuverable just due to the physical fact that larger objects get in your way more than smaller objects do. The larger hoop, bigger stringbed so more total string lengths, and usually the wider beams of larger racquets all contribute to more aerodynamic drag when swinging the racquet. Of course, I'm comparing racquets of equal swingweights.
Click to expand...

Read post #41
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Nostradamus said:
That is not why he switched. he switched because he wants to be able to put some more Zip on his backhand drives when he plays Nadal. so that Nadal can't attack him to that side all day long.
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I understand. It's just that so many people on this board actually believed that Federer would shank a lot less if he only switched to a bigger racquet. Well, the last two matches have proved all of those people wrong, which is something I've been saying here for years.

For example, my post from yesterday:

BreakPoint said:
Not likely. Shanks are caused by racquet head speed and how early off of the bounce you hit the ball, not by racquet head size.

I don't shank any more with an 85 as I do with a 95. But if I increase my racquet head speed or take the ball earlier off of the bounce, I shank more regardless of the size of the racquet I'm using.
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wangs78

wangs78

Legend
BreakPoint said:
What Polaris said is true. Bigger racquets are just more cumbersome and less maneuverable just due to the physical fact that larger objects get in your way more than smaller objects do. The larger hoop, bigger stringbed so more total string lengths, and usually the wider beams of larger racquets all contribute to more aerodynamic drag when swinging the racquet. Of course, I'm comparing racquets of equal swingweights.
Click to expand...

But why do you make that comparison? They don't make 100 sq in racquests that weigh 12.5oz. Most of the bigger (large head) racquets were made lighter specifically so that there is no net loss of maneuverability.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Nostradamus said:
That is not why he switched. he switched because he wants to be able to put some more Zip on his backhand drives when he plays Nadal. so that Nadal can't attack him to that side all day long.
Click to expand...

It is not about Nadal any more. It is more about not losing to the Stacky kind of guys.
 
BreakPoint

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
wangs78 said:
But why do you make that comparison? They don't make 100 sq in racquests that weigh 12.5oz. Most of the bigger (large head) racquets were made lighter specifically so that there is no net loss of maneuverability.
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Then you're not comparing apples-to-apples are you?

Lighter racquets have their negatives which is why people have to add so much lead tape to them to make them playable. So you end up with a racquet that's about the same weight as the smaller racquet but more cumbersome and less maneuverable.
 
roundiesee

roundiesee

Hall of Fame
sureshs said:
I watched the Majek match now and here are some comments:

  • Fed's BH is looking much more confident now. His balls are not landing short.
  • On a very high backhand, he still managed to raise his racket and drop the ball in reasonably.
  • The accuracy on his FH has not been compromised as feared by many
  • His serve is not the same as in his younger days, but I don't see any further loss in precision due to the frame. In fact, they are bouncing higher I feel.
  • His drop shots are sometimes going a little further than they should, but that should resolve itself with time.
  • Though I cannot prove this, I bet he is also expending less energy overall with the new frame as it gives him free power.
Click to expand...

Yes, all good points; I think this second match is much better compared to the first. He is probably getting more used to the stick now, :)
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I think the new frame will help his back problem because he doesn't have to strain himself so much. That alone will be enough of a benefit to warrant the change.
 
cork_screw

cork_screw

Hall of Fame
sureshs said:
I watched the Majek match now and here are some comments:

  • Fed's BH is looking much more confident now. His balls are not landing short.
  • On a very high backhand, he still managed to raise his racket and drop the ball in reasonably.
  • The accuracy on his FH has not been compromised as feared by many
  • His serve is not the same as in his younger days, but I don't see any further loss in precision due to the frame. In fact, they are bouncing higher I feel.
  • His drop shots are sometimes going a little further than they should, but that should resolve itself with time.
  • Though I cannot prove this, I bet he is also expending less energy overall with the new frame as it gives him free power.
Click to expand...

It is J. Hajek, not the crap with the "m"
 
S

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
I'm just going to wait till Federer faces decent opposition. I feel like most of these discussions are very shortsighted. Not pointing fingers at anyone..I have also been extrapolating a lot from a few matches.


Federer defeated brands and Hajek. Lets not get carried away. He would have likely taken both of them to the woodshed playing with a PS85.
 
smoledman

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
I still get the feeling that Fed wants to go back to his PS90. This larger racquet just doesn't feel right. It robs him of his precision game.
 
vandre

vandre

Hall of Fame
I was struck by the action he was getting off of his forehand. there were several that seemed to bounce up around his opponents shoulders. I thought fed usually hit flatter than that (these seemed more like rafa's groundies). I know this was clay but I will be watching to see how the new stick does on hard court.

this could be interesting if it changes how the other top guys prepare and plan for playing fed.
 
DragonBlaze

DragonBlaze

Hall of Fame
vandre said:
I was struck by the action he was getting off of his forehand. there were several that seemed to bounce up around his opponents shoulders. I thought fed usually hit flatter than that (these seemed more like rafa's groundies). I know this was clay but I will be watching to see how the new stick does on hard court.

this could be interesting if it changes how the other top guys prepare and plan for playing fed.
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Well Fed has always had the second most topspin on tour on his forehands after Nada with his 90 square inch racquet. Maybe the bigger racquet head size allows even more spin to be imparted, thus what we're seeing.

I'm gonna wait till I make a judgement about this change but Federer has lost to enough "nobodies" in the past year that no, I cannot say with certainty that he would have done equal or better against Brands/Hajek with his old racquet. And it's just so damn nice to see him actually taking some big cuts at the ball again, not the tentative FH that we had become used to.

I'm cautiously optimistic!
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Sid_Vicious said:
I'm just going to wait till Federer faces decent opposition. I feel like most of these discussions are very shortsighted. Not pointing fingers at anyone..I have also been extrapolating a lot from a few matches.


Federer defeated brands and Hajek. Lets not get carried away. He would have likely taken both of them to the woodshed playing with a PS85.
Click to expand...

Might have been true in the past, but not of late.
 
tennis_hack

tennis_hack

Banned
DragonBlaze said:
Well Fed has always had the second most topspin on tour on his forehands after Nada with his 90 square inch racquet. Maybe the bigger racquet head size allows even more spin to be imparted, thus what we're seeing.

I'm gonna wait till I make a judgement about this change but Federer has lost to enough "nobodies" in the past year that no, I cannot say with certainty that he would have done equal or better against Brands/Hajek with his old racquet. And it's just so damn nice to see him actually taking some big cuts at the ball again, not the tentative FH that we had become used to.

I'm cautiously optimistic!
Click to expand...

Nonsense. I'm 95% sure that this is because only about 8 players out of the thousands out there have had their topspin measured: Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Federer and a couple more. Federer might have the 2nd highest spin out of those lot, but not of the entire tour. Bellucci? Verdasco? Andreev? Federer has more spin than these?

Heck, maybe if everyone in the tennis world were measured, Nadal wouldn't even come first in terms of topspin hit.
 
hrstrat57

hrstrat57

Hall of Fame
If a final with Almagro happens will be great test lab for the new stick. Almagro is crushing it at the moment.
 
B

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
I think this is a terrible move by Federer. He has sent a message to the whole tour that the Stakhovsky loss has made him desperate. It was much better when he pretended he was better than ever. Now everyone will be out for blood.
 
Kalin

Kalin

Legend
BeHappy said:
It was much better when he pretended he was better than ever.
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Well, pretense is good but there is this 'score' thing still used in tennis. If his scores improve then it was a good move.

Things were clearly not going his way with his old racquet. Yes, it is possible he never wins another tournament with the big stick but that would mean he probably wouldn't have won with the other either.
 
Jeffrey573639

Jeffrey573639

Semi-Pro
BeHappy said:
I think this is a terrible move by Federer. He has sent a message to the whole tour that the Stakhovsky loss has made him desperate.
Click to expand...

That is one way of looking at it. Another is that he's willing to do whatever it takes to remain a relevant contender at the GS's.
 
Candide

Candide

Hall of Fame
With the new racquet Federer has a 100% winning record! Oh, and he's getting some evil spin on his slices as well - cutting off to either side like a cricket ball.
 
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cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
BeHappy said:
I think this is a terrible move by Federer. He has sent a message to the whole tour that the Stakhovsky loss has made him desperate. It was much better when he pretended he was better than ever. Now everyone will be out for blood.
Click to expand...

So it is better to do nothing and not try and resolve issues you can control? He can't control his aging but he can control his racquet choices. I personally am not sure the racquet change will mean much for him in the long run but you certainly have to give him credit for finally admitting he has a problem and trying to do whatever is in his control to better the situation.
 
B

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
cc0509 said:
So it is better to do nothing and not try and resolve issues you can control? He can't control his aging but he can control his racquet choices. I personally am not sure the racquet change will mean much for him in the long run but you certainly have to give him credit for finally admitting he has a problem and trying to do whatever is in his control to better the situation.
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His racquet won't make a difference because he hasn't been shanking the ball, he has zero defensive ability now because of his back, he can't rotate his whole body into his forehand anymore because of his back, he can't lunge for returns anymore because of his back.

It can't work so all it will achieve is letting everyone know he's panicking.
 
V

VPhuc tennis fan

Professional
BeHappy said:
His racquet won't make a difference because he hasn't been shanking the ball, he has zero defensive ability now because of his back, he can't rotate his whole body into his forehand anymore because of his back, he can't lunge for returns anymore because of his back.

It can't work so all it will achieve is letting everyone know he's panicking.
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why not retire immediately, according to your analysis? Why even bother to practice with a new stick? Just announce retirement and go happy fishing, yes? Ever since his Wimby loss, and now with a change in his racket, I read a lot of ridiculous things. Give the guy a break. To me, at this age, he's still trying to be relevant, and that's a testament of his will and drive to succeed. As I said, he has the option to say "adios, amigo" anytime he wants, but the fact he still plays means he still likes to find ways to win, and that means a lot.
 
B

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
VPhuc tennis fan said:
why not retire immediately, according to your analysis? Why even bother to practice with a new stick? Just announce retirement and go happy fishing, yes? Ever since his Wimby loss, and now with a change in his racket, I read a lot of ridiculous things. Give the guy a break. To me, at this age, he's still trying to be relevant, and that's a testament of his will and drive to succeed. As I said, he has the option to say "adios, amigo" anytime he wants, but the fact he still plays means he still likes to find ways to win, and that means a lot.
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Why not get an injection in his back like Agassi did and show up 100%?
 
V

VPhuc tennis fan

Professional
BeHappy said:
Why not get an injection in his back like Agassi did and show up 100%?
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why an injection? Not all back issues need an injection? You, a physician? And even if you are, you treat all your patients with back issues with a cortisone injection?
Besides, what made you think he had back issues?
 
S

sarmpas

Hall of Fame
sureshs said:
I watched the Majek match now and here are some comments:

  • Fed's BH is looking much more confident now. His balls are not landing short.
  • On a very high backhand, he still managed to raise his racket and drop the ball in reasonably.
  • The accuracy on his FH has not been compromised as feared by many
  • His serve is not the same as in his younger days, but I don't see any further loss in precision due to the frame. In fact, they are bouncing higher I feel.
  • His drop shots are sometimes going a little further than they should, but that should resolve itself with time.
  • Though I cannot prove this, I bet he is also expending less energy overall with the new frame as it gives him free power.
Click to expand...


What now?...............
 
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