Wawrinka : Uncle Toni coaches too much

J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
The Dark Knight said:
Let me ask you all a question.....

Think about it.....has anyone in the history of tennis ever been penalized for on court coaching? Anyone at all?

This is the only case I have ever found.....and although the title says he was penalized a point he was actually only given a warning for the coaching.

http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/ten...d-penalty-point-court-coaching-125653430.html
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- Rafael Nadal has been fined $2000 by Wimbledon officials for receiving coaching during his third-round match.

I just want to see, how you will try to rationalize this. This is going to be funny :)
 
M

mptennis

Rookie
The Dark Knight said:
What is "wrong" ?

If its actually allowed then its not "wrong".....you are not the moral monitor.
Click to expand...

"Wrong" is "not right".

So by your definition, if your parents tell you to take out the trash, and you don't do it, and for whatever reason they don't punish you, then that means it's not wrong to disobey your parents?

End result doesn't matter. A rule is a rule.

The moral policeman has spoken. Run away quietly, child.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
jg153040 said:
- Rafael Nadal has been fined $2000 by Wimbledon officials for receiving coaching during his third-round match.

I just want to see, how you will try to rationalize this. This is going to be funny :)
Click to expand...

Fine ....he paid. What's the big deal?

No different than the Fed fine $1500 bucks for cursing....or I think he was fined like 2k for throwing a match on purpose.

You don't get it.....I'm not rationalizing ...it's wrong....but HOW wrong .

If I illegally park it's wrong ?...do I pay a fine or should I be sentenced to death?

It's a minor thing and you guys blow it out of proportion .
 
DolgoSantoro

DolgoSantoro

Professional
The Dark Knight said:
Fine ....he paid. What's the big deal?

No different than the Fed fine $1500 bucks for cursing....or I think he was fined like 2k for throwing a match on purpose.

You don't get it.....I'm not rationalizing ...it's wrong....but HOW wrong .

If I illegally park it's wrong ?...do I pay a fine or should I be sentenced to death?

It's a minor thing and you guys blow it out of proportion .
Click to expand...

Dunno if anybody's suggesting Nadal should be put to death, mate. Just penalized in some way for his repeated violations of the rules. Seems reasonable, yes?
 
M

mptennis

Rookie
The Dark Knight said:
Fine ....he paid. What's the big deal?

No different than the Fed fine $1500 bucks for cursing....or I think he was fined like 2k for throwing a match on purpose.

You don't get it.....I'm not rationalizing ...it's wrong....but HOW wrong .

If I illegally park it's wrong ?...do I pay a fine or should I be sentenced to death?

It's a minor thing and you guys blow it out of proportion .
Click to expand...

You're wrong. About everything. Go away.
 
M

mptennis

Rookie
The Dark Knight said:
And "punishments are punishments "

He paid the 2k.....that's like you paying 50 cents......there are rules and then there are other rules....some more serious than others.

The punishment for coaching is minor because its a minor infraction .

Move on.
Click to expand...

You move on. To a different website. You contribute nothing here, yet you take away so much.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
mptennis said:
You move on. To a different website. You contribute nothing here, yet you take away so much.
Click to expand...

Why ? Because I simply stated a fact? It's a minor infraction....why does that bother you so much?

If you think a $2000 fine is a big deal what can I say?

So your angry because I'm not letting you blow it out of proportion ? The fact is its minor...I'm sorry but it is
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
mptennis said:
You're wrong. About everything. Go away.
Click to expand...

That's childish.

Look the fact is that Nadal paid a small fine because its regarded as a minor infraction....shall I just ignore that? Should I pretend it's a big deal and call for the banishment of Nadal from tennis? That's about the only thing that will make you happy.
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
The Dark Knight said:
Sure. I don't disagree.

You want to fine him 2k be my guest. Why go endlessly on about such a minor thing ?
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Because with Rafa and Toni it's a pattern. They always do stuff like this. Time violation. Ball bouncing. Coaching, taking medical time-outs at strange times. Taking about injuries too much.

If it were a couple of times, sure no problem. It happens. But with them it's hundreds of times.

And I love Nadal's tennis, I really do. I think he is very smart. But he ruins this with me. I care what type of a person is a guy, not just for tennis. And bad sportsmanship bothers me. And look, everybody does it sometimes, they are humans. But with Rafa it's always something.

I don't know if Rafa should be punished. But I don't have to watch. And a lot of people don't like it.

I think Nole did a lot of stuff too. But still not as much as Rafa and Toni.

I think that's the reason I don't like to watch those guys as often. It's a shame, cuz their tennis is brilliant.

But I would watch Fed and Murray anytime. Those guys are in another league when it comes to being a good sportsman. Not saying they are perfect, they have their moments too, but are rare and not as severe.
 
B

bjorn23

Rookie
I've just never liked Nadal's gamesmanship. I respect him but because of his antics I find him difficult to like. Plays too slow, grunts louder than strongmen competitors, on court coaching, and excessive fist pumps, falling to ground at every big match.
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
bjorn23 said:
I've just never liked Nadal's gamesmanship. I respect him but because of his antics I find him difficult to like. Plays too slow, grunts louder than strongmen competitors, on court coaching, and excessive fist pumps, falling to ground at every big match.
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Yeah, that's a shame. Because off court I like him. He seems very humble.

It's like he transforms himself to a killing machine on court doing almost everything to win and try to "kill" his opponents.

He is a different person on court. Maybe too competitive and hates to lose too much. I think Rafa is a great person, as long as there is no competition around.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
bjorn23 said:
I've just never liked Nadal's gamesmanship. I respect him but because of his antics I find him difficult to like. Plays too slow, grunts louder than strongmen competitors, on court coaching, and excessive fist pumps, falling to ground at every big match.
Click to expand...

Understand.....but this actually is Toni.....I think Rafa wishes toni would shut up. I once actually saw him say that to him in a match.....well he put his finger over his mouth.

He looked at warwinka and felt really bad....as if to say "I'm sorry ...you know how family can get he is a little to much into it".
 
J

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
The Dark Knight said:
Understand.....but this actually is Toni.....I think Rafa wishes toni would shut up. I once actually saw him say that to him in a match.....well he put his finger over his mouth.

He looked at warwinka and felt really bad....as if to say "I'm sorry ...you know how family can get he is a little to much into it".
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Yes, maybe Toni is a lot to blame. Because Rafa is too dependent on him. And still lives at home and is not his own man yet.

I guess Rafa didn't have a normal life. Toni is like a necessary evil for Rafa. Toni makes him a worse person, but he makes him a better tennis player. Rafa needed him too much. Cuz Toni is very smart. I think a lot of tactics come from Toni.
 
C

corners

Legend
jg153040 said:
Yes, maybe Toni is a lot to blame. Because Rafa is too dependent on him. And still lives at home and is not his own man yet.

I guess Rafa didn't have a normal life. Toni is like a necessary evil for Rafa. Toni makes him a worse person, but he makes him a better tennis player. Rafa needed him too much. Cuz Toni is very smart. I think a lot of tactics come from Toni.
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Rafa is Toni's *****. No, no, they are both wonderful people.
 
Last edited:
sbengte

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
jg153040 said:
Because with Rafa and Toni it's a pattern. They always do stuff like this. Time violation. Ball bouncing. Coaching, taking medical time-outs at strange times. Taking about injuries too much.

If it were a couple of times, sure no problem. It happens. But with them it's hundreds of times.
Click to expand...

Not defending Nadal or Toni in any way but if they are at it repeatedly, why don't the umpires regularly penalize them ? Like warning followed by point penalty followed by game penalty and so on ? Just like with the time violations ?

The message being sent by the officials is utterly confusing. By overlooking the Nadal-Toni on-court coaching for most part, are they trying to imply that it is indeed a minor infraction like cursing or breaking a racquet ? That everyone can do it and it is cool ? Puzzling indeed.
 
DeShaun

DeShaun

Banned
If the image and the well being of tennis as a profession is dependent at least partly on how the game is perceived to be played by its greatest active champions, then, this has been impaired by the man who has championed the flouting of the on-court coaching rule, and not by the man who has pointed out the one who did this to the sport's image. Do not make this about Stan; this is about Rafa's redefinfing what good character is when competing on court, or rather, his lowering of the bar with respect to gentlemanly sporting.
 
D

dooknookem

Rookie
bjorn23 said:
I've just never liked Nadal's gamesmanship. I respect him but because of his antics I find him difficult to like. Plays too slow, grunts louder than strongmen competitors, on court coaching, and excessive fist pumps, falling to ground at every big match.
Click to expand...

Lol excessive fist pumps? Gamesmanship? Falling on the court after a big match win?!?! Are you talking about Nadal or every player since 1978? You must have hated tennis the last 20-30 years lol. Do you have a problem with how soccer players celebrate goals or how football players celebrate touchdowns too?!?! How boring can one be?
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
I don't how in that crowded stadium Uncle Toni could have been sooo loud that Stan could hear him, but the umpire could not.

If he was that loud, and it was obvious cheating, the crowd also would have noticed, because it was disrupting the match and the umpire would have had to say something.

That's just common sense.

What I think happened, was that Stan gave it all he had, and even his best wasn't good enough to nab a set against a sub-par Nadal.

His frustration bubbled over and I look for a retraction in the near future.

Toni was no doubt shouting vamos, he has been accused of cheating before just for saying the same thing.

If people want Nadal fans to believe this ridiculous scenario, then the scenario needs to make more sense.
 
L

lcalamar

Rookie
I don't blame Nadal or any player who stretches the rules.

Either enforce the rules or don't have them. But if you have the rule then tennis has to enforce them.

A number of points have been made about time wasting. Geez - come on - enforce that.

And... Nadal's OCD getting ready to serve is becoming REALLY tough to watch.
 
W

Wim

Guest
At least rafa doesnt cheat like djoker did in Wimbledon.

Toni screaming vamos.

Wawrinka a bitter loser. So dissapointed about how childish he was arguing.
 
Solo

Solo

Banned
I agree, this needs to stop. Nadal's like a 12 year old bum boy. All the butt scratching, sniffing his fingers after, time wasting, being fed bread like a pigeon by Toni all needs to stop. Is not good for tennis.
 
S

smash hit

Professional
Graf=GOAT said:
Being a sore loser is not breaking the rules. I am asking again, did Federer ever get coaching from the stands or take 30+ seconds between serves like Nadal does?
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Yes he did, it was picked up on TV during the US open and he also had his prize money withheld for breaking the 'best effort' rule.

This article is about Wawrinka complaining, did anyone notice Stan talking to his team. The BBC commentators did, Andrew Castle said, "Here we go Wawrinkas having a nice little chat with his team" Maybe people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Coaching goes on, that doesn't make it right, but it is not only done by Nadal's team. Of course the Nadal detractors are only interested in criticizing and lambasting Nadal.

On the occasion that Nadal was fined for alleged coaching his opponent didn't think he was being coached.

QUOTE -PHILIPP PETZSCHNER: No, I just heard words, but it could have been “vamos” or whatever. It’s anyway tough to hear if you’re down on the court, because the whole arena is pretty loud.
So I don’t know why he gave the warning for or if it was coaching or not. I have absolutely no idea. I can just tell if you are down there, you almost understand nothing from up there, even if they are screaming at you.
I think there was no coaching involved. That’s what I think.
 
moonballs

moonballs

Hall of Fame
Good development. Looks like Nadal just added one more guy who will beat him down the road in slams and masters. I think it it a must to not like him for anyone to beat Nadal, because his game is so consistent. Delpo, Djokovic, Rosol, Soderlin, none of them are fanbois. Delpo complained about the fake MTO. Rosol didn't wait for him to be ready to serve. Solderlin mocked him while he was still losing to him. I think Stan will take one match from Nadal in 2014.
 
W

Wim

Guest
moonballs said:
Good development. Looks like Nadal just added one more guy who will beat him down the road in slams and masters. I think it it a must to not like him for anyone to beat Nadal, because his game is so consistent. Delpo, Djokovic, Rosol, Soderlin, none of them are fanbois. Delpo complained about the fake MTO. Rosol didn't wait for him to be ready to serve. Solderlin mocked him while he was still losing to him. I think Stan will take one match from Nadal in 2014.
Click to expand...

No, wawrinka has his only chances indoor against rafa.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
lcalamar said:
I don't blame Nadal or any player who stretches the rules.

Either enforce the rules or don't have them. But if you have the rule then tennis has to enforce them.

A number of points have been made about time wasting. Geez - come on - enforce that.

And... Nadal's OCD getting ready to serve is becoming REALLY tough to watch.
Click to expand...

1- I agree .....if they are not going to enforce the rule then it's not really a rule.
If they don't want coaching then severely punish them and it will never happen again. Otherwise just stop the sham and allow it ....which is exactly what's happening . It's a "rule" on paper but in practicality everyone is doing it.

It's like the illegal immigration . I have an easy solution and there would be no illegal aliens in this country . All the USA has to do is issue a law that says "if you hire an illegal alien then you will serve a mandatory prison sentence of 5 years". I guarantee that the problem will be solved.

Same with coaching . They should issue a punishment "if you are caught coaching then the match is automatically a default ".

But the way it is now is a joke ....a warning , a seconds and third warning .....a fine of 2k??? They are basically allowing it so why not do it ??

2- time wasting ......if Nadal actually has OCD as you say then he must be given extra time according to the disabilities act. Therefore Nadal is doing nothing wrong by virtue of the fact he has a handicap.
 
darrinbaker00

darrinbaker00

Professional
tennisaddict said:
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/11/wawrinka-uncle-toni-coached-rafa-stands-more-usual/49716/

“It's nothing personal against Rafa or against [Nadal uncle and coach] Toni," Wawrinka said. "We all know, players and umpire, that Toni is always trying to help Rafa. That's normal. That's part of the game. But when it's too much, it's too much.

"Today I didn't agree with the umpire that he didn't tell him something or he didn't give him second warning just because it was Rafa. We all see. I was there. Before every point, he was trying to coach him.
Click to expand...

In a related story, water is wet.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Wim said:
At least rafa doesnt cheat like djoker did in Wimbledon.

Toni screaming vamos.

Wawrinka a bitter loser. So dissapointed about how childish he was arguing.
Click to expand...

You're talking about being childish?? Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black in this post.
 
librarysteg

librarysteg

Hall of Fame
I haven't been to many live matches, but I did notice coaching in Cincinnati this year. Benneteau's coach was really going at it through the entire match and at one point they pretty much had a conversation. The funniest part to me was I was sitting behind Youhzny's coach (he was scouting) and as he left he shot Benneteau's coach one of the nastiest looks I've ever seen.
 
Crisstti

Crisstti

Legend
moonballs said:
Good development. Looks like Nadal just added one more guy who will beat him down the road in slams and masters. I think it it a must to not like him for anyone to beat Nadal, because his game is so consistent. Delpo, Djokovic, Rosol, Soderlin, none of them are fanbois. Delpo complained about the fake MTO. Rosol didn't wait for him to be ready to serve. Solderlin mocked him while he was still losing to him. I think Stan will take one match from Nadal in 2014.
Click to expand...

Lol, Delpo adores Rafa.

Stan's whining is being a sore loser and nothing else. He just got mad he lost that first set, the way he did, and with Rafa playing awful. He needs to grow up.
 
Crisstti

Crisstti

Legend
mptennis said:
"Wrong" is "not right".

So by your definition, if your parents tell you to take out the trash, and you don't do it, and for whatever reason they don't punish you, then that means it's not wrong to disobey your parents?

End result doesn't matter. A rule is a rule.

The moral policeman has spoken. Run away quietly, child.
Click to expand...

A rule is a rule is it's actually applied. This is particularly true in common law systems.

The coaching rule is applied to Rafa as much (or as little) as to anyone else. Therefore, it's fair.

In fact, he gets more heat for it than other players probably due to the fact that him and Toni have publicly talked about it.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Crisstti said:
Lol, Delpo adores Rafa.

Stan's whining is being a sore loser and nothing else. He just got mad he lost that first set, the way he did, and with Rafa playing awful. He needs to grow up.
Click to expand...

Does PMac who is 47 years old needs to grow up too when he believe Nadal MTO in 2010 Wimbledon wasn't genuine ?

anyone who doesn't agree with Nadal needs to grow up right?
Yeah right!
 
Crisstti

Crisstti

Legend
jg153040 said:
Yeah, that's a shame. Because off court I like him. He seems very humble.

It's like he transforms himself to a killing machine on court doing almost everything to win and try to "kill" his opponents.

He is a different person on court. Maybe too competitive and hates to lose too much. I think Rafa is a great person, as long as there is no competition around.
Click to expand...

His on court transformation is one of the best things about him! :)

Btw, there are no "suspicious" MTOs with him, let's stick to facts and not defame people.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Crisstti said:
Lol, Delpo adores Rafa.

Stan's whining is being a sore loser and nothing else. He just got mad he lost that first set, the way he did, and with Rafa playing awful. He needs to grow up.
Click to expand...

Exactly. His record against Nadal seems to be the cause of his childish screaming.
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
darrinbaker00 said:
I was referring to Rafa being coached, not Wawrinka commenting on it. Relax.
Click to expand...

I'm not upset and I know what you were referring to .

My point is that the coaching is taken so lightly that all warwinka wanted as punishment was a warning .

Coaching seems to be so minor that it's less enforced than even a time violation.

And yet it's turned into such a big deal here at TW.

It's a minor offense if at all.
 
L

lcalamar

Rookie
No issue with Wawrinka here.

His game has really grown so that he is a legitimate threat to any player at any time. He just needs to get over the hump and get a win or two.

Obviously he has to be a bit frustrated - he's put in some amazing matches against Nadal/Djokovic and come away empty handed... who wouldn't be frustrated.

I also don't see his comments about coaching as whining. He just made the comment as fact. Nadal doesn't seem to take much issue with it and in general it is a non issue.

Too much ado about nothing seems to be the growing culture on these forums... have an opinion, but don't make it personal.

Understand we all have our biases and take them in stride.
 
R

RF_fan

Semi-Pro
Uncle Toni needs to be gagged and his hands tied so he can't give any signals. Or they should only allow him to sit at the very top without his stupid hat.
 
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