Shot-Stats, Babolat Play, Zepp, etc - let's discuss!

S

SFeingold

New User
Hahaha, love the chart!

Firmness of the grip will play a role, but no human being is rigid. No matter how strong you are, nobody can hold a racket so firmly that a ball impact to one side won't produce some amount of rotation that can be measured. That's a bit of an awkward sentence but you get the idea. :)
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
SFeingold said:
Hahaha, love the chart!

Firmness of the grip will play a role, but no human being is rigid. No matter how strong you are, nobody can hold a racket so firmly that a ball impact to one side won't produce some amount of rotation that can be measured. That's a bit of an awkward sentence but you get the idea. :)
Click to expand...
I know,but meant that if the impact point is a function of the rotation at impact, the firmness of the grip might be a factor...

(We use the chart in the IT business when looking at new emerging technology... :) )
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
Zepp is working on serve recognition. An update should be coming out soon (I hope....). It does not recognize serves well...
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
Zepp informed me of progress on serve recognition, but still no new release... Am currently not using the sensor anymore. Waiting for a better release.
 
D

Deleted member 541868

Guest
We just launched our revamped Shot Stats site, check it out! Plus we finally gave the device a name...
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
A question for Shot Stats: Babolat and Zepp have butt handle sensors. Any reason/advantage for having sensor mounted on the strings?
 
S

SFeingold

New User
Yep there are a few reasons why we chose the placement of Challenger on the string bed. The biggest reason is that you can use it on any racket, and switch between different rackets quickly. Integrating the hardware into the racket limits you to that one racket for data collection. Integrating it into the butt-cap is tricky because there is a lot of variation between rackets.

From the technical side, although putting it on the string bed adds a lot of challenges, it gives you cleaner data than you could get since it is much closer to the action and there is less guessing or extrapolation required to calculate head speed. It also provides the best access to the vibration of the string bed which contains a lot of useful data.
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
SFeingold said:
Yep there are a few reasons why we chose the placement of Challenger on the string bed. The biggest reason is that you can use it on any racket, and switch between different rackets quickly. Integrating the hardware into the racket limits you to that one racket for data collection. Integrating it into the butt-cap is tricky because there is a lot of variation between rackets.
Click to expand...
This does not apply to the Zepp sensor.

SFeingold said:
From the technical side, although putting it on the string bed adds a lot of challenges, it gives you cleaner data than you could get since it is much closer to the action and there is less guessing or extrapolation required to calculate head speed. It also provides the best access to the vibration of the string bed which contains a lot of useful data.
Click to expand...
This is what I would have thought. Guess Zepp took the butt-cap approach because they can use their golf and baseball sensor...
 
TW Staff

TW Staff

Administrator
julian,

We just received word from Zepp and they are approximating the software will be ready to go in the next couple weeks. They are waiting for Apple to approve of the app.

Brittany, TW
 
D

Deleted member 541868

Guest
Looks like I got a fresh new name :)

I'll be here to answer any and all of the questions you may have about Shot Stats Challenger, our Kickstarter campaign, the team, or pretty much anything.

Thanks!

-Lavie
 
D

Deleted member 541868

Guest
v-verb said:
Nice Handle Lavie!!!

So wheat are the dates you can share with us?
Click to expand...

We aim to have beta models in the hands of testers toward the end of July and early August timeframe. Our ship date for our Kickstarter campaign is for mid January.

-Lavie
 
I

imajica77

Professional
I just came across Shot Stats yesterday with a link to the kickstarter. I was going to post it here; but I see I am well behind you guys on this.

I can't wait till January to get my hands on this. I feel this could be a game changer for those willing to apply the technology.
 
J

julian

Hall of Fame
For TW

TW Staff said:
julian,

We just received word from Zepp and they are approximating the software will be ready to go in the next couple weeks. They are waiting for Apple to approve of the app.

Brittany, TW
Click to expand...

Please see post number 71 above.
There is a major update available
 
bleno567

bleno567

Professional
It's hard to make a decision right now as to what type of metric device is going to be the best. I do, however, feel making the device a dampener is the right idea, because it is closer to the point of contact and can be removed and snapped on other racquets. To me, those are the real selling points here.

There's real potential for this device to grow and capture the market, but time will tell. It's hard to best companies with budgets like Babolat.

What I am wondering is what kind of odds shot stats has of having their patent on metric device dampeners stand up in court. It sounds like something that is not patentable and could get ripped off at some point. Do we have any posters well versed in these legal implications?

All the best and good luck with the kickstarter!!
 
R

Rjtennis

Hall of Fame
SFeingold said:
Dimcorner, you hit the nail on the head. :) Those are some of the ways you can reject false "shots," and part of what we are incorporating for that purpose. Finding the trajectory of the racket is fairly involved but is definitely the best source of information to figure out what is and is not a valid shot. Time between shots and racket orientation are also integral pieces of info.

As far as weight is concerned, our "hard" goal is 20 grams and our desired goal is closer to around 15. Of course, lower is better. There is a balance to be found because there are a lot of things conspiring to make the thing heavier. The battery is a big one:

1) Enabling the device to be used standalone requires running most of the processor-intensive calculation onboard.
2) More powerful processors consume more power.
3) Higher power consumption means either a bigger battery (thus heavier) or a shorter life.

The preference for lighter weight vs. longer life might change for different players, but less weight is the primary goal. Around 4 hours of battery life should be a good compromise.

It's worth mentioning that the Zepp is really a marvel of miniaturization at only 8 grams. We were pretty impressed with the hardware when we first got a chance to play with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to post here. I've looked at the info you have posted on Kickstarter and it seems like you guys are doing some really cool things!
 
D

Deleted member 541868

Guest
FEDERERNADAL13 said:
I was hoping to pledge for one of them, but you seem to have sold out of that package! What do I do in this case?

Thanks!

-FN13
Click to expand...

Hey FEDERERNADAL13 - we did sell out of the early bird special for single Challengers, but you can still get a single Challenger for $150. Also, there are early bird specials still available for the doubles package (2 Challengers) for $250.

Hope that helps, let me know if you anymore questions/comments.

Thanks!
-Lavie
 
D

Deleted member 541868

Guest
Rjtennis said:
Thanks for taking the time to post here. I've looked at the info you have posted on Kickstarter and it seems like you guys are doing some really cool things!
Click to expand...

Hey Rjtennis - Of course, Sergey and I are happy to answer any questions you may have and listen to whatever feedback you want to share.

Thanks!
 
J

julian

Hall of Fame
Patents

bleno567 said:
It's hard to make a decision right now as to what type of metric device is going to be the best. I do, however, feel making the device a dampener is the right idea, because it is closer to the point of contact and can be removed and snapped on other racquets. To me, those are the real selling points here.

There's real potential for this device to grow and capture the market, but time will tell. It's hard to best companies with budgets like Babolat.

What I am wondering is what kind of odds shot stats has of having their patent on metric device dampeners stand up in court. It sounds like something that is not patentable and could get ripped off at some point. Do we have any posters well versed in these legal implications?

All the best and good luck with the kickstarter!!
Click to expand...
In the case of patents please do as follows:
Google "Zepp Labs patent"
It will lead you to two patents live/pending
Google "Babolat patent"
It would lead you to a related patent "method for calculation of repeatibility index ..."
My remark relates to your question "what I am wondering ...."
You may see as well
US 7234351 quoted by google and cited by swingbyte
See as well some patents by Hao Su from Stanford
 
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B

bigcat1

New User
Backed and Excited

Just wanted to let you know that I backed this project and am VERY excited for its release. The video looks really cool and if Challenger can do everything it says it can, I know it'll be hugely helpful for my game.

I may have missed this, but are you looking to add calories burned and miles ran somewhere down the line? That would be cool to see too and combine the Fitbit stuff with the Challenger stats. A match made in heaven!

Thanks!
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
I made a first try with the Zepp Sensor in Serve Mode. First impression is excellent. Seems to correspond with my swing... Very cool feature!
 
J

julian

Hall of Fame
gzhpcu said:
I made a first try with the Zepp Sensor in Serve Mode. First impression is excellent. Seems to correspond with my swing... Very cool feature!
Click to expand...
Do you have a screen shot.

gzhpcu said:
I made a first try with the Zepp Sensor in Serve Mode. First impression is excellent. Seems to correspond with my swing... Very cool feature!
Click to expand...
What is your ratio of backswing time/impact time?
Is it around 3 ?
See as the screen shot of May 5 at
play.google.com/store/apps/details?idEQUALcom.zepp.tennis
where the string EQUAL should be replaced by the corresponding mathematical symbol

jonestim said:
Page 9 of the PDF (numbered 5) shows a "Pro Mount" that looks like it MAY stick to the butt cap instead of being rubber that goes over the grip. The rubber mount was the only thing I was questioning. Looks good and I'm on the upcoming playtest.
Click to expand...
Could you let us know it is difficult to play when a sensor is mounted?
 
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kimguroo

kimguroo

Legend
I tested Zepp and it's good product but I believe they can be better in the future.
I was not interested in high tec tennis gadget and zepp made me to look into tennis gadget again ^_^
Looks like sony smart sensor was released in Japan a few days ago. I saw couple of youtube video and impressed by their features. I am wondering anyone got or tested Sony smart sensor yet. Anyone from Japan here ???
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
Zepp is improving and they have been very quick to respond to my bug issues. Support is friendly. Am sure they will improve...
 
J

julian

Hall of Fame
Is it snowing every day in Switzerland?

gzhpcu said:
Zepp is improving and they have been very quick to respond to my bug issues. Support is friendly. Am sure they will improve...
Click to expand...
Life is not so good in States.
The promised review of Zepp by TW NOT available.
 
J

julian

Hall of Fame
I am NOT in Japan

kimguroo said:
I tested Zepp and it's good product but I believe they can be better in the future.
I was not interested in high tec tennis gadget and zepp made me to look into tennis gadget again ^_^
Looks like sony smart sensor was released in Japan a few days ago. I saw couple of youtube video and impressed by their features. I am wondering anyone got or tested Sony smart sensor yet. Anyone from Japan here ???
Click to expand...
You may try to see/watch
http://translate.google.com/transla...+sensor+tennis&start=10&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=789

It is a translation from Japanese

Corporate information
Content menu コンテンツメニュー
Information listed here is the information available on the day of the release.
Because there is the possibility that information on the search date is different, Please note.
January 20, 2014
Racket-mounted Smart Tennis Sensor release, which is connected to immediately analyze the shot of tennis, but also to progress, looking forward, looking at the display easy-to-understand data on smartphones


Jan 20, 2014 announcement
28, revised May 2014
06, revised June 2014


Smart Tennis Sensor (right) racket when installing apps screen (left) on your smartphone
※ racket is not included in a product.


Sporting goods stores nationwide and Sony, with tennis equipment shop, immediately analyze the shot of tennis players, to be displayed on the tablet or smartphone, Smart Tennis Sensor of racket-mounted (Smart Tennis sensor) the "SSE-TN1" will be released. This product offers customers a new experience to see easily, play the contents of tennis that could not be visualized easily conventional, enjoying, that is linked to progress.
In conjunction with the launch of this product, it provided free of charge by the App Store and Google Play store, dedicated application "Smart Tennis Sensor application".

Type name Release date Price
Smart Tennis Sensor (Smart Tennis sensor) "SSE-TN1" The 31st late May ※ Open price

※ was updated on May 31 from the end of May the release date. (May 28, 2014 date)
To be used when it is in the grip end of the corresponding tennis racket ※ 1, Smart Tennis Sensor is a sensor of the racket wearable. By the tablet ※ 2 smartphones and ※ 2 where you installed the dedicated application, to wireless connection Bluetooth ® ※ 3, and immediately analyze the tennis shot, to display clearly on the application. Further, in order to minimize the impact on the play, this product, has achieved about 8g weight, size and weight design of 31.3 mm maximum diameter.

Players will be confirmed immediately on the spot and the rotation of the ball position, velocity, etc. that captures the ball with racket on, the data that could not be easily visualized, conventional. In addition, it is possible to have to play along with the data that has been visualized, play video recorded on a smartphone, look back to the objective many times the content of their play. Because these data can be shared easily with coach and fellow, you may want to hand immediately, a new environment and experience to look at them, the players enjoy, that is linked to progress.

Original idea in the course of the development and deployment and application products and services to enrich the various scenes of daily life, would like to provide a new and fun to notice even in sports, Sony developed a this product were. The combination of software development, including user interface and vibration analysis technology, and sensing technology, and has realized the visualization and analysis of immediate tennis shot. Vibration analysis technology, is something that by applying the knowledge of music acoustic analysis techniques developed in such as audio equipment development, we have developed a new.

※ 1: Tennis racket corresponding to this product is the following series of YONEX Corporation.
"VCORE Tour G", "VCORE Xi 98 E," "VCORE Xi 100 E," "EZONE Ai 98 E," "EZONE Ai 100 E," "EZONE Ai LITE E" ※.
※ Because there was a change in the type name of the corresponding tennis racket of "VCORE Tour G" other than, we have fixed. (May 28, 2014 date)
※ 2: (except for some models) camera smartphone / tablet equipped with Android 4.1 or later ※, and (except iPhone 3GS) iPhone / iPad equipped with iOS6.1 or later.
※ Because there is a modification in the corresponding model, we append a page which will guide you through the corresponding model new.
( http://helpguide.sony.net/sports/tn1/v1/ja/contents/TP0000391186.html ) (6月dated 6 2014)
※ 3: communication range of Bluetooth in which they are installed in the sensor, outlook about 10m from the unit.
Can be connected bench tennis courts (10.97m × 23.77m) near, if such waiting space. (Our research)
Key Features

Display immediately analyze the shot of one. Tennis, shot analysis function
I will record the data and swing type, such as forehand / backhand, position which caught the ball with racket on, such as the rotation of the ball speed and swing speed, ball. In live mode for wireless connection with Bluetooth, you can view the data immediately on the spot on the application of the smart phone. Further, by selecting the memory mode, it is possible to accumulate the data in the memory of the machine without connecting the smartphone, and transmits to the smartphone later. The built-in memory, I can store the data corresponding to about 12,000 balls.
The shot analysis function, It is achieved by vibration analysis technology, which was developed a new one using a sensing technology, the knowledge of music acoustic analysis techniques developed in the technology development, such as audio equipment. By analyzing the process of wave racket vibration and your computer will automatically detect the position, etc caught the ball with racket on.


Data that can be visualized Summary
Number of shots I will count the number of times the shot.
Impact location Show me an illustration, a position which caught the ball with racket on.
Swing type I will determine the type of swing.
Forehand: spin / flat, slice, volley backhand: spin / flat, slice, volley overhead: Smash, serve
Swing speed Show me in mph or km / h, the swing speed of the racket.
Ball velocity (initial velocity) Show me in mph or km / h, the speed of the ball.
Ball rotation Show me in the 21 steps of -10 to +10.


Display screen of the data changes in the (right) for each type of play swing report screen for graphical representation (medium) for each type of swing live mode screen for immediate display (left) shot content
※ There is the case that is different from the final product specification image.



Displayed with the shot data analysis 2. Playing video, synchronous playback function of data and video
It is possible to those who are watching the play, if I get a shooting ※ 4 play with a smartphone, is synchronized with the video data, to play. Because it can be viewed with each data, play the actual video, you can easily look back to the more specific point you want to see. In addition, only forehand, by extracting and only serve, in each type of swing you want to see, you can also digest reproduction.
※ 4: must be taken using the camera function only application of "Smart Tennis Sensor application" within.


Screen you digest reproduction only (right) forehand synchronized playback screen and data (left) Video
※ There is the case that is different from the final product specification image.



Sharing 3. Facebook
It is possible to share with friends easily via Facebook, and data analysis of the shot. By get a comment and share with friends play content, leading to motivation to continue playing tennis.

Main Specifications
Waterproof performance You do not have the harmful effects of water jets from any direction (IPX5) equivalent ※ JIS / IEC protection class 5.
Dustproof Will be protected from (IP6X) equivalent dust ※ JIS / IEC protection class 6.
Charging time We have corrected about 90 120 minutes ※ ※ charging time. (May 28, 2014 date)
Continuous use time Bluetooth is turned on If you continue to beat at a rate of 500 balls in about 90 minutes ※ 60 minutes. To become the sleep mode when not playing, battery consumption will be reduced.
Bluetooth off About 180 minutes
External dimensions Diameter 31.3mm, 17.6mm height
Weight About 8g
Bundled items Attachment, cradle, cradle cap, micro USB cable, removal tool, carrying pouch

※ "VCORE" is a registered trademark of Yonex Co., Ltd..
※ "EZONE" is a registered trademark of Yonex Co., Ltd..
※ Facebook is a trademark or registered trademark of Facebook Inc..
※ The listed company name and product names are registered trademarks or trademarks of their respective owners.
Market estimated price: "SSE-TN1" 18,000 yen before and after

※ "market estimated price" is what about the pre-launch of the product, we have to estimate the selling price in the market.
It should be noted that the actual selling price of the product is determined by each dealer.



Top > About Sony > Corporate > News Release > 2014 racket-mounted Smart Tennis Sensor release, which is connected to immediately analyze the shot of> tennis, even in progress, looking forward, looking at the display data clarity on smartphones

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Last edited:
kimguroo

kimguroo

Legend
julian said:
You may try to see/watch
Click to expand...

I already saw that information on Jan. 2014.
Was not excited until I tried zepp.
I've seen Japanese youtube for short testing on sony device and very impressed especially video recoding mode with each shot analysis so I was wondering anyone who actually got or tested the device in Japan instead of just general information from sony website.
 
gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
My advice: don't get excited by the hype of any manufacturer. We need real, independent testing reports. Wait for a mature product that has been well tested. I am testing Zepp for another reason now: it is fun to be involved in the testing process, but for most, wait for the mature product...
 
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