Head Pro Tour 630 is 20 years old now

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
I cant believe its been 20 years since the Pro Tour 630 had been released and still winning slams on the ATP tour. Its really goes to show how marketing departments are in overdrive coming up with fluff that don't improve performance and only hurts the feel of the racquets. Its a shame that such a fine racquet is available to only Tour level players.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Murray_2014_RG_2_zpsb0ab8586.png

aegon-championships-day-three-20140611-110558-618_zps47eb0719.jpg
 

Fearsome Forehand

Professional
There is always the auction site. That is where I got most of my 280/630's.

Still ranks as one of the best rackets ever IMHO. Does everything well.
 
Other question.
Are there "designed in austria" versions with no mention "head barcode label inside" and with no mention "made in china? :confused::confused:

Because i have:

1x made in austria
2x designed in austria with "head barcode label inside"

And they offer me 2 rackets "designed in austria" but no mention "barcode"
and no mention "china" :confused::confused:

ps they seem in very very good condition
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Other question.
Are there "designed in austria" versions with no mention "head barcode label inside" and with no mention "made in china? :confused::confused:

Because i have:

1x made in austria
2x designed in austria with "head barcode label inside"

And they offer me 2 rackets "designed in austria" but no mention "barcode"
and no mention "china" :confused::confused:

ps they seem in very very good condition

I have not seen a Designed in Austria Pro Tour 630 without Barcode label inside. Do have photos of the racquet in question?
The Pro Tour 280 without Barcode Label Inside were made in China.
 

Hannah19

Professional
Where, just like the PC Tour, the early "Designed in Austria" rackets not all made in Czeckoslovakia..?
 

Fearsome Forehand

Professional
Doesn't seem to be that many DIA 630's. The one I have has the HBCLI notation on the side. The other 630's I have are all MIA. I don't think there are any PRC made 630's, just some 280's.

I think the HBCLI DIA's (both 630's and 280's)were made in the Czech Republic after Head transferred manufacturing there to take advantage of exchange rates. Then, the big move to the PRC (along with all the other companies.)

I have some DIA's 280's that have no HBCLI notation and no mention of the PRC. Usually the only mention of China on 280's is on the butt cap (and sometime just a removable label on the butt cap.)

I wouldn't sweat the origins that much. They play pretty similarly IMHO.
 
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vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Doesn't seem to be that many DIA 630's. The one I have has the HBCLI notation on the side. The other 630's I have are all MIA. I don't think there are any PRC made 630's, just some 280's.

I think the HBCLI DIA's (both 630's and 280's)were made in the Czech Republic after Head transferred manufacturing there to take advantage of exchange rates. Then, the big move to the PRC (along with all the other companies.)

I have some DIA's 280's that have no HBCLI notation and no mention of the PRC. Usually the only mention of China is on the butt cap.
The China 280 did not come about until 2000 and were SMU for the internet retailers and big box sporting good stores. HEAD's mainline premium frames were still Made in Austria.

Where, just like the PC Tour, the early "Designed in Austria" rackets not all made in Czeckoslovakia..?

Racquets that are Designed in Austria with Barcode Label Inside were manufactured in Austria and finished (painted and etc) in the HEAD factory in Czech Republic.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Where, just like the PC Tour, the early "Designed in Austria" rackets not all made in Czeckoslovakia..?

No 630/280 was manufactured/made in The CZ. Some versions were finished: paint, grommets, pallets, gripping in the CZ, the frames were made in Austria.
 

Fearsome Forehand

Professional




I wait for other ones

I think they look okay. I don't think there was ever a problem with counterfeit
280/630's if that is your concern. The big counterfeiting of rackets started later.

The shrink wrapping on the grips doesn't look original and the butt caps don't look original to me but hard to tell from the pics.
It is possible they have been re-palleted at some point. Opinions?
 
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retrowagen

Hall of Fame
Who was/were first atp/wta player(s) using pt57A? It looks like many used radical tour MP in early 90s.

I remember Thomas Muster first with this racquet, but I don't really know if he was the first pro to use it, perhaps only the first to win a big tournament with it? :confused:
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Probably Muster? Sanchez?

Haas used it as did Guga, David Wheaton and some others. Can't recall a female player using it but maybe they did.

Sanchez and Muster were the first. Supposedly they had a hand in the design. Haas, Simon, Murray are all still using the Pro Tour 630 to great effect!
 
Recieved the photos in high resolution.
Indeed: DIA but no HBLI :confused:
And no other mention:confused:

Just in the buttcap is a number stamped but cannot read it
 

joe sch

Legend
I cant believe its been 20 years since the Pro Tour 630 had been released and still winning slams on the ATP tour. Its really goes to show how marketing departments are in overdrive coming up with fluff that don't improve performance and only hurts the feel of the racquets. Its a shame that such a fine racquet is available to only Tour level players.

I agree that "Its a shame that such a fine racquet is available to only Tour level players"

Just produce larger lots of the pro stock rackets and let TW sell to the buyers in the know for a descent profit for both Head and TW. Is this not a win win for all ?

Don't forget the PT280 is also just as nice:

http://woodtennis.com/head/pt57a/pt280_pt57a2.jpg
 
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mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
I cant believe its been 20 years since the Pro Tour 630 had been released and still winning slams on the ATP tour. Its really goes to show how marketing departments are in overdrive coming up with fluff that don't improve performance and only hurts the feel of the racquets. Its a shame that such a fine racquet is available to only Tour level players.

no doubt PT280s are sticks with great feel, but since i've started stringing my APD at 40#s, i just can't see myself going back. feels really good and makes the game so much easier.

i'm finding that all my favorite sticks play even better at lower tension so maybe i just need to try my PT280 at 30#.
 

corners

Legend
I cant believe its been 20 years since the Pro Tour 630 had been released and still winning slams on the ATP tour. Its really goes to show how marketing departments are in overdrive coming up with fluff that don't improve performance and only hurts the feel of the racquets. Its a shame that such a fine racquet is available to only Tour level players.

VS, what exactly is it about these heritage frames that makes them superior to today's offerings. I know why they are superior - more solid feel, naturally low vibrations, etc. - but what about the layup and construction gives them these qualities?

And what are they doing wrong with current models? (Graphene is a new aberration, but no one seemed satisfied with the last couple Prestige and Radical generations either.)
 

Fearsome Forehand

Professional
always thought the PT280 and the PT630 were the same and that the 280 referred to square inches while the 630 referred to square cm.

Same racket as the PT630. The 280 name was part of the Trisys scale (Head's version of Wilson's Swing Index # and Prince's Power Level schemes.)

The Prestige was the Trisys 300, the Pro Tour the 280, the Radical the 260, etc.
 

Fearsome Forehand

Professional
By doing a search on the forum i found this

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=153613&page=2

4zbz1au.jpg

A picture of the pt280 china batch.

They look very similar to those on the pt630 that i posted before.
I wonder if it would be possible that there was a DIA pt630 batch that was made in china.

What would both rackets be worth?

Possible, I suppose. My bet would be that they were re-palleted at some point so the butt caps are not original. Hard to say for sure but the conventional wisdom is that there are no Chinese 630's. Maybe there are a few? Not sure.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Same racket as the PT630. The 280 name was part of the Trisys scale (Head's version of Wilson's Swing Index # and Prince's Power Level schemes.)

The Prestige was the Trisys 300, the Pro Tour the 280, the Radical the 260, etc.

thanks. that's what i thought.

so the PT280 is lower powered than the PT630, right? ;)
 

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
VS, what exactly is it about these heritage frames that makes them superior to today's offerings. I know why they are superior - more solid feel, naturally low vibrations, etc. - but what about the layup and construction gives them these qualities?

And what are they doing wrong with current models? (Graphene is a new aberration, but no one seemed satisfied with the last couple Prestige and Radical generations either.)

Some suggest the quality of carbon fiber used in tennis racquets has fallen off dramatically, particularly as the Iraq war was escalating in the early 90's: much of the higher-quality material was required for the far more lucrative military and aerospace industries.

This also occurred roughly after, or near the same time that currency fluctuations made construction in Europe and the UK (meaning, in-house at facilities at Kneissl, Rossignol, Völkl, Head, Snauwaert, Donnay, Adidas, Dunlop, Slazenger, and others) unsustainable, and production shifted to Asian contractors, who looked for cheaper sources of materials to minimize unit costs and maximize per-unit profits for them, while making the frames no more expensive for the brand itself.

Also, since racquet design really hasn't had any actual advances since the widebody revolution of the late 1980's, marketing staff (instead of engineers) have been in control of the industry, and they have been telling us that lighter racquets are better and more fun to play with. Biomechanically, this may not be so. However, lighter racquets require less carbon fiber (hence should be cheaper to make), yet as they contain less material, transmit more shock and vibration...
 
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Fearsome Forehand

Professional
thanks. that's what i thought.

so the PT280 is lower powered than the PT630, right? ;)

I should qualify my comment in that the PT280/630 was made for about 5 or 6 years, roughly 1994-2000, in various locations and there are minor differences among the vintages. Some versions are a bit more flexy, some a bit heavier, etc. All are great rackets IMHO but like everything else a matter of opinion and taste. I happen to like all the versions.

Head had different names for other rackets in Europe and the USA, for instance, the Pyramid Tour versus the Pyramid Tour 630. Same frame, slightly different name. I guess Head figures Americans can't handle the metric system. Hence, the 280 name in the USA and the 630 in Europe. :)
 
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HRB

Hall of Fame
Hey VSB...Just inquiring for your much appreciated opinion.

I've yet to have the pleasure of procuring a PT 630...but I have a Radical Twin Tube MP "Zebra" and a i.prestige MP, both of which I love.

So which one would play/feel closest to the PT 630, and what would be the biggest noticeable differences?

Thanks in advance.
 

ProRadTour

Semi-Pro
I'm sure VSB will summarise better but the TT radical is closer in feel to the PT630 than the iPrestige.

For me, the PT630 is little more flexy than the TT, especially in the upper hoop. The i.Prestige is a lot firmer than both with good pocketing.

Also, IMO the TT is more muted than the PT630.
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
I'm sure VSB will summarise better but the TT radical is closer in feel to the PT630 than the iPrestige.

For me, the PT630 is little more flexy than the TT, especially in the upper hoop. The i.Prestige is a lot firmer than both with good pocketing.

Also, IMO the TT is more muted than the PT630.

Thanks, I had a "gut instinct" that the TT will stay the proverbial "extension of my arm" that it is (love "muted"), but I'd like to try the PT some day.
 

mrmike

Semi-Pro
Hey, what do you PT 280/630 fans think about starting a lobbying campaign to ask TW to work with Head on a re-issue ? Why not , it's been done for the PS85 and the Dunlop MW. I'd think they would have no problem selling them.
 

ProRadTour

Semi-Pro
I think it's a good idea. From what I have been told Head have to run a minimum of 10,000 frames to do a rerun otherwise they won't do it. If the average purchase was two frames, TW would need 5000 customers to buy two frames which doesn't seem hard to do.

It's probably the ideal time for such a petition as by all accounts the sales of the Graphene Prestige's have been poor. The $1 deal to demo 4 Graphene sticks also seemed a bit of a desperate ploy to bump sales.

I'd be curious to know how many runs of the PS 85 have occurred since its re-issue.
 
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vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Hey VSB...Just inquiring for your much appreciated opinion.

I've yet to have the pleasure of procuring a PT 630...but I have a Radical Twin Tube MP "Zebra" and a i.prestige MP, both of which I love.

So which one would play/feel closest to the PT 630, and what would be the biggest noticeable differences?

Thanks in advance.

I can play interchangeably with the Radical Tour TwinTube 630 and the Pro Tour 630. They are very close IMHO. The i.Prestige MP is crisper in feel than both.

Hey, what do you PT 280/630 fans think about starting a lobbying campaign to ask TW to work with Head on a re-issue ? Why not , it's been done for the PS85 and the Dunlop MW. I'd think they would have no problem selling them.

Its my understanding that TW would love a run of Pro Tour 630 but that it's Head thats the problem.
 

fusion91

New User
Hey, what do you PT 280/630 fans think about starting a lobbying campaign to ask TW to work with Head on a re-issue ? Why not , it's been done for the PS85 and the Dunlop MW. I'd think they would have no problem selling them.

It's been attempted before, more recently

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=437190

I'd be down with getting a couple of frames, as long as Head uses the same original materials. I've read that the cost of the Twaron material used in these frames makes the manufacturing process quite expensive.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Hey, what do you PT 280/630 fans think about starting a lobbying campaign to ask TW to work with Head on a re-issue ? Why not , it's been done for the PS85 and the Dunlop MW. I'd think they would have no problem selling them.

First, you can buy tons of them on e Bay, some in great condition (not new though) for less what you would pay for the different feel, CHinese made, reissue...
Second, I believe this idea was already entertained and did not happen...
 

Fearsome Forehand

Professional
It's been attempted before, more recently

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=437190

I'd be down with getting a couple of frames, as long as Head uses the same original materials. I've read that the cost of the Twaron material used in these frames makes the manufacturing process quite expensive.

Present day re-issues almost always end up disappointing the purists. You can't go home again. As DR wrote above, you would be better of finding one in good used condition (of any vintage) on the auction site.

As for the Twaron cost, yet another TT urban myth. Almost all materials will increase in price over time, twaron, kevlar and everything else. if you do a search for twaron price increases, you won't find much. It has to stay cost competitive with Dupont's Kevlar and other similar aramid fibers, Technora, Heracron, etc. These rackets had a small amount of Twaron in the mix (an aramid fiber like Kevlar used for its damping characteristics and tensile strength) This was mostly a marketing thing as with all the previous and present racket additives (a very long list). Haven't you noticed that the magic bullet changes almost every year? That is the marketeers at work; new and improved now featuring unobtainium fibers. Don't believe everything you read on this board. In this case, Twaron was the not-Kevlar which was being used by Wilson, Estusa, Dunlop, etc. Seems like a differentiation play more than anything else.
 
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vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Present day re-issues almost always end up disappointing the purists. You can't go home again. As DR wrote above, you would be better of finding one in good used condition (of any vintage) on the auction site.

As for the Twaron cost, yet another TT urban myth. Almost all materials will increase in price over time, twaron, kevlar and everything else. if you do a search for twaron price increases, you won't find much. It has to stay cost competitive with Dupont's Kevlar and other similar aramid fibers, Technora, Heracron, etc. These rackets had a small amount of Twaron in the mix (an aramid fiber like Kevlar used for its damping characteristics and tensile strength) This was mostly a marketing thing as with all the previous and present racket additives (a very long list). Haven't you noticed that the magic bullet changes almost every year? That is the marketeers at work; new and improved now featuring unobtainium fibers. Don't believe everything you read on this board. In this case, Twaron was the not-Kevlar which was being used by Wilson, Estusa, Dunlop, etc. Seems like a differentiation play more than anything else.
I have to disagree with about Twaron and the amount used an how long Head used it for. The amount of Twaron in the racquet depended upon model and the matrix. HEAD used the Twaron in Skis and racquets from 1986 to 2000. That is a mighty long time. Also HEAD still manufactures the Pro Tour 630 for the guys on Tour calling it by the code PT57A. So if HEAD can get it right for a nuts like Murray and Haas I'm sure they can get it right for us.
 

floydcouncil

Professional
I have to disagree with about Twaron and the amount used an how long Head used it for. The amount of Twaron in the racquet depended upon model and the matrix. HEAD used the Twaron in Skis and racquets from 1986 to 2000. That is a mighty long time. Also HEAD still manufactures the Pro Tour 630 for the guys on Tour calling it by the code PT57A. So if HEAD can get it right for a nuts like Murray and Haas I'm sure they can get it right for us.

"Getting it right" is subjective as Head would see it. They currently offer a very nice line with their Graphene.

IF Head decided to offer the PT280, it would be the same stock as the last Chinese models and you purists on these boards would complain yet again.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
"Getting it right" is subjective as Head would see it. They currently offer a very nice line with their Graphene.

IF Head decided to offer the PT280, it would be the same stock as the last Chinese models and you purists on these boards would complain yet again.

First off, I have hit with the Chinese PT 280 and thought they played great. There was nothing wrong with them. I would not complain about that.
Second, what do mean the same as last stock?
 

Fearsome Forehand

Professional
First off, I have hit with the Chinese PT 280 and thought they played great. There was nothing wrong with them. I would not complain about that.
Second, what do mean the same as last stock?

^ I agree.The Chinese Pro Tours do play great. I know people who prefer the Chinese made 280's. I have known guys on the satellite tour that used Chinese Pro Tours and loved them.

With regard to Twaron, yes Head used it for years (going back to the Electra? in the mid 1980's.) But, is Twaron better than Kevlar or other comparable para-aramids? Not really. More of the same. But, for marketing purposes, it is different than Kevlar and therefore "better"; a classic differentiation play,

I have it on good authority (from someone who was head of racket design for a major manufacturer) that there is usually a unspecified amount of these hyped substances in the composite matrix and that they are included largely for marketing reasons. Having worked in marketing for many years, it is a familiar story to me. Could Head have used another para-aramid in the Pro Tours? Yes. Would we have noticed? No. Wilson used to claim some of their rackets (the Pro Staff 6.0/6.1) had about 20%? Kevlar. Can't recall ever seeing a Head racket that specified a percentage of Twaron.
 
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HRB

Hall of Fame
I can play interchangeably with the Radical Tour TwinTube 630 and the Pro Tour 630. They are very close IMHO. The i.Prestige MP is crisper in feel than both.



Its my understanding that TW would love a run of Pro Tour 630 but that it's Head thats the problem.

Thanks. I can imagine the feel then, because on days I'm totally "on" I'l paint lines and place the ball wherever I want with the I.Prestige, but when I'm "off" and get a case of the "launchers" I find the flexy muted TT to allow me to swing as hard as I want and still stay in.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
^ I agree.The Chinese Pro Tours do play great. I know people who prefer the Chinese made 280's. I have known guys on the satellite tour that used Chinese Pro Tours and loved them.

With regard to Twaron, yes Head used it for years (going back to the Electra? in the mid 1980's.) But, is Twaron better than Kevlar or other comparable para-aramids? Not really. More of the same. But, for marketing purposes, it is different than Kevlar and therefore "better"; a classic differentiation play,

I have it on good authority (from someone who was head of racket design for a major manufacturer) that there is usually a unspecified amount of these hyped substances in the composite matrix and that they are included largely for marketing reasons. Having worked in marketing for many years, it is a familiar story to me. Could Head have used another para-aramid in the Pro Tours? Yes. Would we have noticed? No. Wilson used to claim some of their rackets (the Pro Staff 6.0/6.1) had about 20%? Kevlar. Can't recall ever seeing a Head racket that specified a percentage of Twaron.

Twaron started in 1986 for racquets with the Prestige Pro/TXP. I have seen material that gave a breakdown of matrix. Remember that the most carbon a racquet can really have is 60% the rest of the racquet is epoxy resin.
 
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