Where does Djokovic's 2013 season rate in terms of best YE#2?

Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
I've just been looking over Djokovic's stats from his 2013 campaign and it amazes me just how good they were for a YE#2 season.

7 titles including 1 Slam, WTF, 3 Masters 1000 and 2 500s.
2 Slam RU(at Wimbledon and USO)
74-9 W/L record(89.15%)
24 top 10 wins
$11.2 million in prize money
Took Serbia to the Davis Cup final once more
Finished the year on 12260 points

I just think it gets a bit overlooked given how successful Nadal's comeback was but when you look more closely at his stats it was actually a pretty great season for him, arguably even better than 2012 and 2014.

Note that I'm asking where it rates with regards to overall achievements rather just Slam results as I know that Becker finished 1989 at #2 after winning 2 majors that year.
 
BVSlam

BVSlam

Professional
Extremely underrated season. Obviously just as good as his 2012/2014 seasons but this time there was a clear dominating rival that season as Nadal won two slams and 10 titles overall. People act like it's a weaker year in between 2012 and 2014 but that's just not true imo. 2012 and 2014 didn't have anyone really dominating so those seasons look better, but Djokovic only lost the number 1 ranking at the very end of 2013 so for the most part he was the world number 1. In that regard it's one of the best #2 ending seasons, but he was number 1 way longer than he was number 2 so that only makes sense. Obviously Nadal was the best player that year though, no question about that.
 
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RF-18

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, very underrated season. He could have probably had 3 slams that year as his matches against nadal in RG and USO could have gotten either way considering the circumstances (net thing at deuce in the last set, 4-3 up a break) and the third set in their USO encounter where Djoko had the match completely but nadal saved 3 BPs at 4-4 wich turned the match around.

Sad part though is he won't be remembered for his 2013 season cause he lost in the most important moments, where he actually should have won. I think Djokovic himself rates 2014 much higher as he finished the last 4-5 months in an astonishing way and taking majority of the important titles and finishing the year as number one.
 
Chanwan

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic2011 said:
I've just been looking over Djokovic's stats from his 2013 campaign and it amazes me just how good they were for a YE#2 season.

7 titles including 1 Slam, WTF, 3 Masters 1000 and 2 500s.
2 Slam RU(at Wimbledon and USO)
74-9 W/L record(89.15%)
24 top 10 wins
$11.2 million in prize money
Took Serbia to the Davis Cup final once more
Finished the year on 12260 points

I just think it gets a bit overlooked given how successful Nadal's comeback was but when you look more closely at his stats it was actually a pretty great season for him, arguably even better than 2012 and 2014.

Note that I'm asking where it rates with regards to overall achievements rather just Slam results as I know that Becker finished 1989 at #2 after winning 2 majors that year.
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Certainly one of the strongest year end no. 2's that I'm aware of - and pretty close to getting 2 slams and a YE. no. 1. instead. On the other hand, 2012 and 2014 haven't exactly been the most dominant YE. no. 1 in recent times though - in fact I think he ended up with more points in 2013 than in either 2012 and 2014.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
That 2013 USO final was a bummer. He was a break up in the 3rd set , lost that and Rafa served 4-4, 0-40 in the 3rd set and there he collapsed. That 20 minutes changed the year.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal said:
Collapsed my *** :lol: hell was unleashed.
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How close the margins in the game if you think about it. 20 minutes changes the course in history.

If Novak could have kept it together, he would have stood at 8 majors with 2 USO and Rafa with 13 majors and a lone USO/ lone AO.

Perhaps that is reflective of the actual gap between these two players instead of Novak at half the majors as Rafa and with lesser titles at USO.
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
tennisaddict said:
How close the margins in the game if you think about it. 20 minutes changes the course in history.

If Novak could have kept it together, he would have stood at 8 majors with 2 USO and Rafa with 13 majors and a lone USO/ lone AO.

Perhaps that is reflective of the actual gap between these two players instead of Novak at half the majors as Rafa and with lesser titles at USO.
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Obviously you've never watched the match.

0-40
Novak hits a very solid, deep return but Nadal hits a brilliant fh winner utl to counter.

15-40
Longish rally, Novak hits the net. Not a sign of someone crumbling that happens all the time in long rallies someone eventually misses.

30-40
Nadal hit an ace

Deuce. There you go. Novak didn't do much wrong, Rafa raised his level and put a stop to him.

If anything, it was Rafa having mistakes that gave Novak the opportunity in the first place, slipping over to make it 0-30.

Nadal too good. Accept it.
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Well obviously it's one of the best YE#2 finishes. Novak certainly played a lot better in 2013 than 2014 despite finishing lower.

imo, 2013 was also better than 2012 for Novak as well.

If Nadal wasn't around he'd probably have won 3 majors. So yeah it's right up there.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
The_Order said:
Obviously you've never watched the match.

0-40
Novak hits a very solid, deep return but Nadal hits a brilliant fh winner utl to counter.

15-40
Longish rally, Novak hits the net. Not a sign of someone crumbling that happens all the time in long rallies someone eventually misses.

30-40
Nadal hit an ace

Deuce. There you go. Novak didn't do much wrong, Rafa raised his level and put a stop to him.

If anything, it was Rafa having mistakes that gave Novak the opportunity in the first place, slipping over to make it 0-30.

Nadal too good. Accept it.
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That was a match completely in Novak's hands that he let loose.

After the first 20 minutes slumber, Novak was butchering Rafa . He was up a break in the third . First sign of nerves set in when he lost the break.

He looked like winning that 9th game and putting the shutters down.

Loss of that 9th game, changed the course of the match.

Don't worry. Rafa will have such matches in future where he comes close but goes on to lose. You guys have had a good time so far.
 
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
tennisaddict said:
That was a match completely in Novak's hands that he let loose.

After the first 20 minutes slumber, Novak was butchering Rafa . He was up a break in the third . First sign of nerves set in when he lost the break.

He looked like winning that 9th game and putting the shutters down.

Loss of that 9th game, changed the course of the match.

Don't worry. Rafa will have such matches in future where he comes close but goes on to lose. You guys have had a good time so far.
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That's what happens to a lot of players when they play Nadal in a big match. Rafa gets one chance he makes it count. Watch his aggressiveness and shot selection in the most critical points. Nadal won the third set despite Novak playing slightly better. Novak couldn't put up a fight when Nadal played better in sets 1 and 4.

By the way Nadal already had such matches where he looked in control but lost the match. Wimbledon 2007 final comes to mind.
 
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tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
That's what happens to a lot of players when they play Nadal in a big match. Rafa gets one chance he makes it count. Watch his aggressiveness and shot selection in the most critical points. Nadal won the third set despite Novak playing slightly better. Novak couldn't put up a fight when Nadal played better in sets 1 and 4.

By the way Nadal already had such matches where he looked in control but lost the match. Wimbledon 2007 final comes to mind.
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Rafa just has 2007 Wimb and 2012 AO. While Rafa fans have enough to deal with his injuries, they haven't had to deal with close losses yet.

Novak and Fed have a handful.
 
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
tennisaddict said:
Rafa just has 2007 Wimb and 2012 AO. While Rafa fans have enough to deal with his injuries, they haven't had to deal with close losses yet.

Novak and Fed have a handful.
Click to expand...

And who handed them those close losses? I think a certain humble fisherman from Mallorca is to be blamed for most of those close losses, no?
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Djokovic2011 said:
Let's get back on topic guys. Where do you rank Nole's 2013 in terms of best YE#2 seasons?
Click to expand...

If someone has 74-9 win-loss and ended with just 1 major it is plain travesty.

Rafa had 71-10 in 2010 and ended with 3 majors. Rafa lost his first 4 events (Doha, AO, IW, Miami).
 
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Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
And who handed them those close losses? I think a certain humble fisherman from Mallorca is to be blamed for most of those close losses, no?
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Better to have close losses to your main rival than lose in the first round of majors to the likes of Darcis, no? :| Anyway let's not derail anymore.
 
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic2011 said:
Let's get back on topic guys. Where do you rank Nole's 2013 in terms of best YE#2 seasons?
Click to expand...

Remove Nadal from 2013 and Djokovic has his second 3 Slam season with W/L record of 77/6.

Or make Nadal sit out with an injury post Wimbledon like in 2012 and 2014, and Djokovic has both HC Slams. Djokovic was very good in 2013 especially in the Slams. Unfortunately for him, Nadal played one of his best seasons ever in 2013 which prevented Djokovic from dominating the tour.
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
It is one of many things that shows this has been no normal era, in a any way. Since Fed won his first slam, how many slams have been won by players other than Fed, Nadal, Novak, Murray?

Let me see:

Cilic, Wawa this year.

DelPo in 2009

Safin in 2005

Gaudio in 2004

Did I miss anyone? That's FOUR slams won by four players in 11 years other than the Big Four.

that's 40/44 in the last 11 years by just 4 guys. Novak had the very bad luck to co-youngest in in this time period of those 4. I would argue any of those guys, when they have been #2 in the year, were playing well enough to be #1 in other eras. That's part of why we have not seen young champions. The older players have had a lock on everything, and even now there are many old (older) players playing at a level that such players did not use to stay at.

I guess what I am saying is that 7 slam winner Novak in my mind is a better player than someone who has 7 slams. The top three have been insanely good for so long...
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
Remove Nadal from 2013 and Djokovic has his second 3 Slam season with W/L record of 77/6.

Or make Nadal sit out with an injury post Wimbledon like in 2012 and 2014, and Djokovic has both HC Slams. Djokovic was very good in 2013 especially in the Slams. Unfortunately for him, Nadal played one of his best seasons ever in 2013 which prevented Djokovic from dominating the tour.
Click to expand...

Take Nadal out of the equation for a second. What do you think of his overall stats for the year that I outlined in my OP?
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
Remove Nadal from 2013 and Djokovic has his second 3 Slam season with W/L record of 77/6.

Or make Nadal sit out with an injury post Wimbledon like in 2012 and 2014, and Djokovic has both HC Slams. Djokovic was very good in 2013 especially in the Slams. Unfortunately for him, Nadal played one of his best seasons ever in 2013 which prevented Djokovic from dominating the tour.
Click to expand...

Rafa's break after Wimbledon 2012- AO 2013 for a whole 7 months played a large part for the successful 2013.

If only Novak and Fed knew how to plan better !
 
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic2011 said:
Better to have close losses to your main rival than lose in the first round of majors to the likes of Darcis, no? :| Anyway let's not derail anymore.
Click to expand...

Nadal at least doesn't lose to the same journeyman twice in majors. I'm glad Rafa won those close matches. Thanks to those close wins, now every time they play a close match, Chokovic is expected to make an appearance. Must be hard for the fans though.
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
Nadal at least doesn't lose to the same journeyman twice in majors. I'm glad Rafa won those close matches. Thanks to those close wins, now every time they play a close match, Chokovic is expected to make an appearance. Must be hard for the fans though.
Click to expand...

Who lost to which journeyman twice? :confused:
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
MichaelNadal said:
Nope, but in this case, that's what happened. You just don't like it.
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Nonsense from their part thinking Rafa didn't have anything to do with turning that match around and it was only Novak falling apart. LOL.

I especially liked Novak's ace that he hit for Nadal when Nadal was down 0-30 in the 9th game of the 3rd set. But the fh utl when down 0-40 that Novak hit for Nadal was the best.
 
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
tennisaddict said:
Rafa's break after Wimbledon 2012- AO 2013 for a whole 7 months played a large part for the successful 2013.

If only Novak and Fed knew how to plan better !
Click to expand...

If they did, it would result in less number of Slams won by them since they would not even play in some of them and would also have less weeks at #1.
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
The_Order said:
Nonsense from their part thinking Rafa didn't have anything to do with turning that match around and it was only Novak falling apart. LOL.

I especially liked Novak's ace that he hit for Nadal when Nadal was down 0-30 in the 9th game of the 3rd set. But the fh utl when down 0-40 that Novak hit for Nadal was the best.
Click to expand...

Iirc he did make a rather standard forehand error in that game. :?
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
If they did, it would result in less number of Slams won by them since they would not even play in some of them and would also have less weeks at #1.
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Rafa never misses clay, so the opportunities are no less or no more.

If Federer skipped every clay season from 2010 till 2014, he will have much more than 1 Wimbledon.

Top players are obligated to play the tour. Novak and Fed pay the price for Rafa's absence , with bad scheduling.

But that is a separate thread.
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
You don't think Nadal would have more Slams and weeks at #1 without the injuries? I believe Nadal would have more titles if it weren't for injuries he suffered.
Click to expand...

Nope, I actually think he'd have less. It's his time away from the tour that seems to rejuvenate him every time and enable him to win more slams when he comes back!
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic2011 said:
I've just been looking over Djokovic's stats from his 2013 campaign and it amazes me just how good they were for a YE#2 season.

7 titles including 1 Slam, WTF, 3 Masters 1000 and 2 500s.
2 Slam RU(at Wimbledon and USO)
74-9 W/L record(89.15%)
24 top 10 wins
$11.2 million in prize money
Took Serbia to the Davis Cup final once more
Finished the year on 12260 points

I just think it gets a bit overlooked given how successful Nadal's comeback was but when you look more closely at his stats it was actually a pretty great season for him, arguably even better than 2012 and 2014.

Note that I'm asking where it rates with regards to overall achievements rather just Slam results as I know that Becker finished 1989 at #2 after winning 2 majors that year.
Click to expand...
I believe most great players would have been #1 in most years with the level of play Novak was at in 2013.

The top three have all cheated each other out of even more slams. The competition among them has been ridiculous. Otherwise peak Fed ran into very early peak Nadal, making the difference in age feel more like 2.5 than 5 years. Nadal's really early peak combined with Fed's amazing peak gave Novak almost no chance to break in until later than usual.

Enter Murray two take two slams away from the top three.

As a non-Novak fan I think he remains underrated.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Backspin1183 said:
You don't think Nadal would have more Slams and weeks at #1 without the injuries? I believe Nadal would have more titles if it weren't for injuries he suffered.
Click to expand...

He has won 9 out of 10 FO. So, he did not lose any opportunity.

If he had played AO , instead of skipping or retiring multiple times, he may not have been as sharp at the FO.

Rafa has won only 3 non clay majors (2010 Wimb and USO and 2013 USO) since the time his injury breaks started in 2009.

2010 Wimb - Ok.
2010 USO - Novak had just won a big match and Rafa had a dream of a draw - Gabashvilli, Istomin, Simon, Lopez, Verdasco, Youzhny. Novak was not at the level to win 2 big matches at that stage.

2013 USO - It was Novak's match to lose.

So, this thinking that if Rafa could have won more if not for injuries has no basis and should be quashed.
 
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MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Djokovic2011 said:
What do you think of Novak's stats from 2013 MN? Where do rank it for best YE#2 seasons? You do have a nasty habit of entering threads without contributing to the OP babes. :|
Click to expand...

Idk Djoker2011, where do you rank it? I personally don't care much, because when we try to say anything positive about Nadal and being #2 it's oh so irrelevant.

And lmao @hateraddict. The USO 2013 being Novak's match to lose when Nadal beat him at the FO, and Montreal and hadn't lost a match on HC all year. Either put the bong down or pass it here.
 
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Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal said:
Idk Djoker2011, where do you rank it? I personally don't care much, because when we try to say anything positive about Nadal and being #2 it's oh so irrelevant.

And lmao@ The USO 2013 being Novak's match to lose when Nadal beat him at the FO, and Montreal and haden't lost a match on HC all year. Either put the bong down or pass it here.
Click to expand...

Why did you enter the thread at all then if you didn't want to say anything relevant to the topic at hand? :confused: I just don't get that.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal said:
Idk Djoker2011, where do you rank it? I personally don't care much, because when we try to say anything positive about Nadal and being #2 it's oh so irrelevant.

And lmao@ The USO 2013 being Novak's match to lose when Nadal beat him at the FO, and Montreal and haden't lost a match on HC all year. Either put the bong down or pass it here.
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Don't bring in FO / clay. We know no one beats Rafa there.

That Montreal match was a 3rd set tie break. Dont make it as though he beat Novak 2 and 2.

The problem is you want everyone to think Rafa is an all courter. The issue is he is not.

He fully deserves his 2 Wimb ,1 AO and 9 FO. I will add may be a 2nd AO as well (2012 or 2014 AO).

But the 2 USO are god's gift to him. There are simply many better fast hard court players.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
tennisaddict said:
Don't bring in FO / clay. We know no one beats Rafa there.

That Montreal match was a 3rd set tie break. Dont make it as though he beat Novak 2 and 2.

The problem is you want everyone to think Rafa is an all courter. The issue is he is not.

He fully deserves his 2 Wimb ,1 AO and 9 FO. I will add may be a 2nd AO as well (2012 or 2014 AO).

But the 2 USO are god's gift to him. There are simply many better fast hard court players.
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You can think Nadal is as one dimensional as you'd like t.a :) If you focus long and hard enough and throw enough hate at him it might..... oh nevermind, it won't change a thing. :lol: Seems to me like you feel the heat from the slam count. You shouldn't be so insecure.
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
tennisaddict said:
But the 2 USO are god's gift to him. There are simply many better fast hard court players.
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Name them.

In 2013 Nadal was 89/30 for the year on hard courts. 119 total. Divide by 2 if you want percentages.

The only better player by percentage that year on HCs was Novak, 89/34 123.

Each won one of the HC slams.

Fed was weaker on HCs that year, for obvious reasons. Who else are you going to suggest was better?
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Gary Duane said:
Name them.

In 2013 Nadal was 89/30 for the year on hard courts. 119 total. Divide by 2 if you want percentages.

The only better player by percentage that year on HCs was Novak, 89/34 123.

Each won one of the HC slams.

Fed was weaker on HCs that year, for obvious reasons. Who else are you going to suggest was better?
Click to expand...

Nadal had lost to the likes of Youzhny, Ferrer, Murray and to Delpo previously at the USO. These were 3/4 sets and not even long matches.

Nadal had never reached USO final before.Fed was the bookie favorite for 2010 USO, in spite of a bad year after USO.

At Cinci , he lost to Baghdatis and at Canada to Murray in straights.

In 2013, Rafa looked much better and was a genuine contender, though Novak was still the favorite.

Bottom line, there were lots of players who could defeat Rafa.
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
tennisaddict said:
Nadal had lost to the likes of Youzhny, Ferrer, Murray and to Delpo previously at the USO. These were 3/4 sets and not even long matches.

Nadal had never reached USO final before.Fed was the bookie favorite for 2010 USO, in spite of a bad year after USO.

At Cinci , he lost to Baghdatis and at Canada to Murray in straights.

In 2013, Rafa looked much better and was a genuine contender, though Novak was still the favorite.

Bottom line, there were lots of players who could defeat Rafa.
Click to expand...

Federer lost to teen Ancic at Wimbledon in the first round. Was in straights not even a close one.

In other words, you're talking **** as usual.

Youzhny beat Nadal when Nadal was still honing is HC game. In 2010 when they played Nadal smashed him.

There aren't lots of players who could beat Rafa when he was in the form that he was in 2010 and 2013. Novak is his worst match up on HC and he failed both times.
 
T

timnz

Legend
How about Vilas' 1977 year

Vilas ended as number 2 on the ATP rankings that year - with 2 slams and 1 slam runner-up + 1 Masters 1000 equivalent title (Washington). Overall 16 titles. A lot of people would rate him number 1 for that year - but was what it was - the ATP gave him second place. Of the top 5 events of the year (French Open, Wimbledon, US Open, WCT Finals, Masters) Connors made more finals 4 vs 2 for Vilas with 2 of those tournament wins each (WCT Finals and Masters for Connors). Vilas won 46 matches in a row at a stretch that year.
 
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