If doping is rife in athletics, then ...

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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The Sunday Times and German broadcaster ARD/WRD have obtained access to the results of 12,000 blood tests from 5,000 athletes.

According to the newspaper, the evidence - which has been seen by the BBC - reveals the "extraordinary extent of cheating" by athletes at the world's biggest events.

The investigation used two of the world's "foremost anti-doping experts", scientists Robin Parisotto and Michael Ashenden, to review the data. The files belong to world governing body the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF), but have been leaked by a whistleblower.

According to the experts, the database reveals:

  • A third of medals (146, including 55 golds) in endurance events at the Olympics and World Championships between 2001 and 2012 were won by athletes who have recorded suspicious tests. It is claimed none of these athletes have been stripped of their medals.
  • More than 800 athletes - one in seven of those named in the files - have recorded blood tests described by one of the experts as "highly suggestive of doping or at the very least abnormal".
  • A top UK athlete is among seven Britons with suspicious blood scores.
  • British athletes - including Olympic champion heptathlete Jessica Ennis-Hill - have lost out in major events to competitors who were under suspicion.
  • Ten medals at London 2012 were won by athletes who have dubious test results.
  • In some finals, every athlete in the three medal positions had recorded a suspicious blood test.
  • Russia emerges as "the blood testing epicentre of the world" with more than 80% of the country's medals won by suspicious athletes, while Kenya had 18 medals won by suspicious athletes.
  • Stars such as Britain's Mo Farah and Jamaican sprinter Usain Bolt recorded no abnormal results.
  • Athletes are increasingly using blood transfusions and EPO micro-doses to boost the red cell count.
 
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Chadillac

Guest
Makes me laugh when people are naive enough to believe there's no doping in tennis. Nadal sprints around like a gazelle for 4 hours at a time and no one says a word lol.

Tennis has stepped it up. Last sept they implemented the medical passport. Some players arent up to their same levels.

You gotta wonder if the atp will pull another agassi if ratings fall.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
Tennis has stepped it up. Last sept they implemented the medical passport. Some players arent up to their same levels.

You gotta wonder if the atp will pull another agassi if ratings fall.

I hope testing technology improves. How many hundreds of tests did Lance Armstrong pass for 8-10 years, all while apparently doping the entire time?
 
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Chadillac

Guest
I hope testing technology improves. How many hundreds of tests did Lance Armstrong pass for 8-10 years, all while apparently doping the entire time?

In the past, random testing meant they actually randomly tested the sample. 10 come in they did 2. If you know your #1 is doping you simply dont test the sample they provided. This also satisfies the anitdoping crowd, lance pee'd in a cup many times, it just wasnt tested at the lab. They used to go by the "threat" or being caught.

Now they are testing everything and keeping samples from the past to compare later with the medical passport.

Tennis is one of the sports thats making an effort, now just speed the courts up so people arent so tempted to juice and set.
 

Inanimate_object

Hall of Fame
In the past, random testing meant they actually randomly tested the sample. 10 come in they did 2. If you know your #1 is doping you simply dont test the sample they provided. This also satisfies the anitdoping crowd, lance pee'd in a cup many times, it just wasnt tested at the lab. They used to go by the "threat" or being caught.

Now they are testing everything and keeping samples from the past to compare later with the medical passport.

Tennis is one of the sports thats making an effort, now just speed the courts up so people arent so tempted to juice and set.
That sounds like a ridiculous fabrication. Random testing is an undertaking with significant cost - even the human interaction portion of it. It makes no sense whatsoever to throw out viable samples. This achieves absolutely nothing. Random testing as most people know it, is to avoid the costs of testing 24/7 and attempting to catch athletes red-handed.

This is NOT what happened to Lance Armstrong. He got away with what he did because of his brilliantly sophisticated doping circle. He knew exactly when testers would come, and he carefully abused things which (a) he already had a physiologically excuse for (ie. T-E ratios) or (b) PEDs which had ineffective or easily beatable tests (such as HGH, EPOs and blood doping). Him being uncaught for so long had nothing to do with people randomly throwing out his pee containers.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Armstrong did indeed have people suppressing his negative samples or not processing them beyond a certain level.
 
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Chadillac

Guest
Just saying the medical passport means every sample is being tested now, since its archived for later comparison.
 

The_18th_Slam

Hall of Fame
..and you would be screaming "haterers!"/ "liars!" / "conspiracy!" if the person who has not yet won your avatar's "18th slam" was exposed as using PEDs.
Calm your pants. It's not the person in the picture I posted that's important. It's the expression, which suggests, "oh, not this can of worms again!"
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
What proof is there for bolt doping?

Obviously not proof. Some reasons to be very cynical though:

Him outrunning athletic specimens of rare calibre who are dedicated and training as hard as he does and who are proved dopers.

Him training with and competing for the same team that has fostered several drug cheats.

Went from 10.03 to 9.69 from one season to the next (and 9.58 the next season), i.e., a run of the mill time to world record.

Slumps in form when the much disparaged Jamaican team are pushed to implement a stricter regime.

A former BALCO chemist claimed that the differential between 10.0 seconds and 9.7 is the doping. Doesn't seem unreasonable.



Bottom line: Let's face it, beating doped world-class athletes over a power race of 100 meters while clean—that's not easy.
 

90's Clay

Banned
Makes me laugh when people are naive enough to believe there's no doping in tennis. Nadal sprints around like a gazelle for 4 hours at a time and no one says a word lol.


Plenty of people have suspected Nadal over the years.. But why don't the same numbers of people suspect Murray/Fed/Nole?

Murray got jacked quickly physique wise. Nole couldn't even finish a slam one year, than the next hes the object of consistency and can physically go forever. Fed hasn't missed even ONE slam in over a decade and never physically breaks down
 
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Inanimate_object

Hall of Fame
Armstrong did indeed have people suppressing his negative samples or not processing them beyond a certain level.
He had members of influence such as TWO UCI presidents making sure he did not pop positive. But this was an intentional conspiracy of the cycling community, NOT because of some idiotic system of randomly choosing which curated blood and urine samples to test and which to throw out.
 

Bilders

Semi-Pro
Plenty of people have suspected Nadal over the years.. But why don't the same numbers of people suspect Murray/Fed/Nole?

Murray got jacked quickly physique wise. Nole couldn't even finish a slam one year, than the next hes the object of consistency and can physically go forever. Fed hasn't been missed even ONE slam in over a decade and never physically breaks down

From an objective point of view this is right on.

I also don't think Rafa has had any 'silent bans' imposed on him, as some like to speculate.
 
..and you would be screaming "haterers!"/ "liars!" / "conspiracy!" if the person who has not yet won your avatar's "18th slam" was exposed as using PEDs.

I will no longer consider that he has won anything, if what you are saying come to pass.

Luckily, such thoughts are not on the agenda, seeing what Federer does and how he does it.

:cool:
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Playing grinding baseline tennis on hard and clay courts for 5-6 hours is on account of better focus on fitness and modern nutrition.

That is what we have been told.
 
Always follow the doctors, if you want to know who dopes the most and who is under suspicion.

Two more things:

1) see where the money flow most free
2) there are no miracles, so if a miraculous/unhuman/extraordinary/whatever achievement happens, it is most probably doping

I vomit a little bit in my mouth every time when I see players/athletes who swear by whatever/whoever they hold dear that they (or/and their team) do not dope just to understand later who is their medical "consultant"/team doctor.

Also, whoever have watched this year's Tour de France have seen the unprecedented stamina of the entire Sky team ( $$$$$$). At times it was absurd as even the domestiques of Froome were outclimbing Quintana, Contador and Nibali (not that they were clean). Going over several Hors categorie climbs and arrive almost at the finish like a sprint train with 2-3 riders. It was ridiculous.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
People have speculated about Djokovic, as well as Nadal, but not Murray. And Federer has quite evidently declined physically long before the biological passport.


Plenty of people have suspected Nadal over the years.. But why don't the same numbers of people suspect Murray/Fed/Nole?

Murray got jacked quickly physique wise. Nole couldn't even finish a slam one year, than the next hes the object of consistency and can physically go forever. Fed hasn't missed even ONE slam in over a decade and never physically breaks down
 

Goosehead

Legend
Obviously not proof. Some reasons to be very cynical though:

Him outrunning athletic specimens of rare calibre who are dedicated and training as hard as he does and who are proved dopers.

Him training with and competing for the same team that has fostered several drug cheats.

Went from 10.03 to 9.69 from one season to the next (and 9.58 the next season), i.e., a run of the mill time to world record.

Slumps in form when the much disparaged Jamaican team are pushed to implement a stricter regime.

A former BALCO chemist claimed that the differential between 10.0 seconds and 9.7 is the doping. Doesn't seem unreasonable.



Bottom line: Let's face it, beating doped world-class athletes over a power race of 100 meters while clean—that's not easy.

oh Christ. lol. that 10.03 bolt did was his 1st ever 100m, his coach wouldn't let him run 100m before because of his slow start.

he was a 200m runner up to then with some 400m thrown in,

the rest of your poast is just you drinking too much haterade for some reason. try some milk instead.

he has had injuries in recent years since Olympics but that wouldn't slow him down a bit would it ?.

this year in London he ran 9.87s twice, an hour apart, into a headwind of -1.3m.

lets see what happens in the world championships 100m/200m coming up.....
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
Plenty of people have suspected Nadal over the years.. But why don't the same numbers of people suspect Murray/Fed/Nole?

Murray got jacked quickly physique wise. Nole couldn't even finish a slam one year, than the next hes the object of consistency and can physically go forever. Fed hasn't missed even ONE slam in over a decade and never physically breaks down

Nadal is the most obvious doper because he benefits the most from it, imo. He is a one dimensional player who relies heavily on fitness to win. Plus, being spanish is a red flag since doping is so accepted in that culture. I wouldn't flinch at ANY of the top players popping a positive result, but Nadal is like the Barry Bonds of tennis.
 

Beacon Hill

Hall of Fame
oh Christ. lol. that 10.03 bolt did was his 1st ever 100m, his coach wouldn't let him run 100m before because of his slow start.

he was a 200m runner up to then with some 400m thrown in,

the rest of your poast is just you drinking too much haterade for some reason. try some milk instead.

he has had injuries in recent years since Olympics but that wouldn't slow him down a bit would it ?.

this year in London he ran 9.87s twice, an hour apart, into a headwind of -1.3m.

lets see what happens in the world championships 100m/200m coming up.....
Do you believe doping gives sprinters a tremendous advantage?
Do you believe there are sprinters who dope?
If yes to both, how can you explain a clean sprinter being far superior to a doped sprinter?
 

Beacon Hill

Hall of Fame
Not all men are created equal.
Similar to what most said about Armstrong. How could Armstrong be far superior to cyclists who were dopers? A larger than normal heart? A devotion to training? A freak of nature? Nope. It was because he was doping too. And likely doing a better job of it.

I don't even blame Armstrong for doping. He couldn't have competed against dopers if he didn't. I just blame him for being a complete dick by being so sanctimonious about the issue, and, more importantly, being willing to ruin people's lives to cover up what he was doing.
 
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Chadillac

Guest
Similar to what most said about Armstrong. How could Armstrong be far superior to cyclists who were dopers? A larger than normal heart? A devotion to training? A freak of nature? Nope. It was because he was doping too. And likely doing a better job of it.

I don't even blame Armstrong for doping. He couldn't have competed against dopers if he didn't. I just blame him for being a complete dick by being so sanctimonious about the issue, and, more importantly, being willing to ruin people's lives to cover up what he was doing.

As rude as this may sound, for a guy with 1 nut he had high testosterone lvls. Its a sport that people perfect at 5 when they take off the training wheels (like soccer), endurance is the only factor.
 

britam25

Hall of Fame
That sounds like a ridiculous fabrication. Random testing is an undertaking with significant cost - even the human interaction portion of it. It makes no sense whatsoever to throw out viable samples. This achieves absolutely nothing. Random testing as most people know it, is to avoid the costs of testing 24/7 and attempting to catch athletes red-handed.

This is NOT what happened to Lance Armstrong. He got away with what he did because of his brilliantly sophisticated doping circle. He knew exactly when testers would come, and he carefully abused things which (a) he already had a physiologically excuse for (ie. T-E ratios) or (b) PEDs which had ineffective or easily beatable tests (such as HGH, EPOs and blood doping). Him being uncaught for so long had nothing to do with people randomly throwing out his pee containers.

What's your explanation for the Agassi cover-up? He was neither highly ranked nor using a drug that helped his tennis, and they STILL covered it up.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
while Kenya had 18 medals won by suspicious athletes

What a shame !!!

I did read at an athletics forum in 2012, about this place called Iten in Kenya where Kenyans and a lot of foreigners come to train. The alleys and garbage bins were filled with syringes of banned substances.

No proof, just rumors.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Plenty of people have suspected Nadal over the years.. But why don't the same numbers of people suspect Murray/Fed/Nole?

Murray got jacked quickly physique wise. Nole couldn't even finish a slam one year, than the next hes the object of consistency and can physically go forever. Fed hasn't missed even ONE slam in over a decade and never physically breaks down

This, the Nadal witch hunt is ridiculous. But how else could he beat peak Fed more than once? ;)
 

Inanimate_object

Hall of Fame
What's your explanation for the Agassi cover-up? He was neither highly ranked nor using a drug that helped his tennis, and they STILL covered it up.
You are very confused. No one covered anything up except Agassi himself who purported the lie that he had unwillingly ingested the drug. The ATP gave him leniency with this false pretext. And it's besides the point anyhow. I'm not saying sports officials have not or have never thought about covering up positive tests results. I AM saying that no governing body has enough cash or is stupid enough to start randomly throwing out procured test samples as their official drug testing policy.

The ENTIRE point of having an A sample and a B sample is that there is a backup in case there are impurities or inconsistencies with one of the samples. No testing regime who is staffed by people with more than 8th grade Science would start throwing away perfectly viable blood and urine samples as their definition of randomness in the "random drug tests".
 

racquetreligion

Hall of Fame
Tennis is rife with doping but but tennis elite business demand magic tennis day in day out
even with the idiotic changes to make tennis slower or tennis sales lose out big time

I reckon let doping stay but make it legal and affordable for every player not just the cream
 
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Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Athletics is a terrible example. People get caught once, even twice, and still come back and win races making a tonne of money in the process.
 

Inanimate_object

Hall of Fame
Tennis is rife with doping but but tennis elite business demand magic tennis day in day out
even with the idiotic changes to make tennis slower or tennis sales lose out big time

I reckon let doping stay but make it legal and affordable for every player not just the cream
At one point, having been so exasperated with baseball, I had the same view on PEDs. But I can't support changes that will promote kids who want to go pro, being pressured to take drugs that have severe physiological repercussions later in life. Adults can choose to put whatever they want into their bodies. But when it starts seeping into the kids who are watching those adults, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
 

racquetreligion

Hall of Fame
doping as in improving recovery, blood cell count and basically oxygen improvements
but drugs Im sure are used however doping can take many forms not using drugs

Several years ago everyone watched a down and out Nole hid his head under a towel
while he was either sniffing something or swallowing it, he was dead tired and out of breath
and jumped back into court after that incident and played like it was the first set!
All that watched that AO final questioned that incident.

Sniffing salts pretty much anything to clear the brain or body of tiredness could be
a form of doping but I guess swallowing habanero powder would wake anyone up!
 

easywin

Rookie
If doping is a thing in tennis, you'll have to get rid of the idea of very few black sheeps.
Just as in cycling, it is ridiculous to assume a guy like armstrong who is, compared to the length of a 200km track, very very slightly faster than the guy finishing after him is doped to the max but the next guy isn't is not very consequently thought through. Not everyone has to be doping especially in tennis but I'd say regeneration and building very dense muscle fiber would be very benefitial for a tennis player.

In the end, I don't know how I feel about doping. While allowing it could never be really right since it could mean a bigger gap if just the top10 can afford the very good stuff and multiple other problems but actually I'm feeling like if everyone could dope the same way, let them do it. If two people are born with exactly the same body, but one of them has a genetically very low testosterone level he is naturally disadvantaged at most sports. Is it fair for him to compete at a crucial disadvantage he can't change regardless of his training ?
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
That sounds like a ridiculous fabrication. Random testing is an undertaking with significant cost - even the human interaction portion of it. It makes no sense whatsoever to throw out viable samples. This achieves absolutely nothing. Random testing as most people know it, is to avoid the costs of testing 24/7 and attempting to catch athletes red-handed.
It sounds like ridiculous fabrication because it is. I had a laugh when I read it too. Random testing meant they would randomly test athletes so there was less chance an athlete could factor a scheduled test day/time into their drug-taking regime to try and avoid a positive test.
 
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*Sparkle*

Professional
I hope testing technology improves. How many hundreds of tests did Lance Armstrong pass for 8-10 years, all while apparently doping the entire time?
I'm not convinced he passed them all, but clearly the technology has improved, as have procedures. Unfortunately, the technology used by the cheats has also improved, so it's a constant battle. IMO, tennis has improved their anti-doping procedures, but it's still under-funded. You'll never have a fully perfect system, but we all know doping is a real issue in sport, and it's reasonable to spend a higher proportion of the profits on anti-doping.

In the past, random testing meant they actually randomly tested the sample. 10 come in they did 2. If you know your #1 is doping you simply dont test the sample they provided. This also satisfies the anitdoping crowd, lance pee'd in a cup many times, it just wasnt tested at the lab. They used to go by the "threat" or being caught.

Now they are testing everything and keeping samples from the past to compare later with the medical passport.

Tennis is one of the sports thats making an effort, now just speed the courts up so people arent so tempted to juice and set.

I thought one of the problems was that (even now) they might not test for everything. Some of the tests are very expensive, and not all labs are capable of testing for everything, so sometimes they just test for some things. I think that's a money/practicality thing, rather than corruption, although you could argue that corruption is behind the unwillingness to spend extra money. If athletes know which labs have limited capabilities, they can train near those labs, safe in the knowledge that's where any samples will go.

Keeping the samples is a huge improvement.

This is NOT what happened to Lance Armstrong. He got away with what he did because of his brilliantly sophisticated doping circle. He knew exactly when testers would come

This is something too easy to abuse with an under-funded scheme. I get concerned when I hear stories of players suddenly having to leave the country because of a family medical emergency, just hours before all of the other top players got tested. I'm not claiming any specific event is dodgy, but it is enough to make you think that it is something that a player could do if they had the right connections.

Armstrong did indeed have people suppressing his negative samples or not processing them beyond a certain level.

Again, this comes down to how much money the sport is prepared to invest in systems to ensure that the agencies are as independent as possible, and have structures which make it virtually impossible to bribe everyone that would need to be bribed to protect an individual.

People have speculated about Djokovic, as well as Nadal, but not Murray. And Federer has quite evidently declined physically long before the biological passport.

A few people have tried to point the finger at Murray going from a lanky teenager to an athletic man, but that's the kind of accusation that makes people with functioning eyes roll them. I can think of so many examples from my own life of tall men who looked a lot like Murray at 17/18, and filled out by 21 without having to do much except get older and eating fairly sensibly. Meanwhile, the same people are suspicious because Nadal had too many muscles as a teen.

It's clear that some player tick a few more of the 'potentially suspicious' boxes than others, but some people treat everything as suspicious. It's a hobby for people who like to gossip, and who love the idea of scandal, and it ends up looking like a witch-hunt, because that's what it is for some people. It becomes a distraction to the real issue.

If we want to get tough on doping, we need better anti-doping programmes that are led by scientific thinking, and with good management. We need all sports to invest an appropriate amount of money into it, and tennis is in the fortunate position of having plenty to go around (at least at the top), so the pressure should go on getting tennis authorities to accept they need to spend a proper chunk of their income on better anti-doping procedures.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Athletics is a terrible example. People get caught once, even twice, and still come back and win races making a tonne of money in the process.
It's even worse - some country's sporting or Olympics bodies let athletes who had failed multiple tests compete at the Olympics soon after. Introducing: Carl Lewis.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Obviously not proof. Some reasons to be very cynical though:

Him outrunning athletic specimens of rare calibre who are dedicated and training as hard as he does and who are proved dopers.

Him training with and competing for the same team that has fostered several drug cheats.

Went from 10.03 to 9.69 from one season to the next (and 9.58 the next season), i.e., a run of the mill time to world record.

Slumps in form when the much disparaged Jamaican team are pushed to implement a stricter regime.

A former BALCO chemist claimed that the differential between 10.0 seconds and 9.7 is the doping. Doesn't seem unreasonable.



Bottom line: Let's face it, beating doped world-class athletes over a power race of 100 meters while clean—that's not easy.

oh Christ. lol. that 10.03 bolt did was his 1st ever 100m, his coach wouldn't let him run 100m before because of his slow start.

he was a 200m runner up to then with some 400m thrown in,

the rest of your poast is just you drinking too much haterade for some reason. try some milk instead.

he has had injuries in recent years since Olympics but that wouldn't slow him down a bit would it ?.

this year in London he ran 9.87s twice, an hour apart, into a headwind of -1.3m.

lets see what happens in the world championships 100m/200m coming up.....

Do you believe doping gives sprinters a tremendous advantage?
Do you believe there are sprinters who dope?
If yes to both, how can you explain a clean sprinter being far superior to a doped sprinter?
Not all men are created equal.
Of course there's always reason to be suspicious of fantastic performances and even more so in sports and disciplines that have a history of doping.
Nevertheless, I lean towards Bolt being clean.
First, there's the tests above. While there could of course be a massive cover-up, that would be odd from researchers claiming that a third of the medals in endurance events and one in 7 tests in general were highly suspicious. In other words: they aren't exactly trying to protect the sport.

Secondly, Bolt's talent was obvious from a very, very young age for anyone who cared to look. He ran a 200 at 20,58 and 20,61 at the age of 15 and became the youngest ever to win a junior gold medal at the world championships.
At 16, he was down at 20.13 (a month shy of turning 17) and 45,35 in 400 meters.
From Wiki: "his times in the 200 m and 400 m led to him being touted as a possible successor to (Michael) Johnson. Indeed, at sixteen years old, Bolt had reached times that Johnson did not register until he was twenty, and Bolt's 200 m time was superior to Maurice Greene's season's best that year."
He ran a sub 20 time before turning 18 (19,93).

Of course he could have been doping back then too. But by all accounts, he was a laid back half lazy teenager, who didn't take himself nor his training that serious (would a boy with an attitude like that dope? Possibly, but not that likely imo), but who had a talent unmatched by his competitors and a physique (getting to his adult height at a young age) unmatched as well.

As for the big increase in his 100 meter time, Goosehead is completely right: "
that 10.03 bolt did was his 1st ever 100m, his coach wouldn't let him run 100m before because of his slow start.
he was a 200m runner up to then with some 400m thrown in,"

Given how good he already was on 200 meter and the early potential shown, I do think it's entirely plausible to think that he as a clean runner is outsprinting multiple doped runners.

But of course I could be wrong.
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
I hope testing technology improves. How many hundreds of tests did Lance Armstrong pass for 8-10 years, all while apparently doping the entire time?
If they had the bio passport at the beginning they would have caught him early on.
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Bolt's problem is Jamaica's drug testing record itself. Until very recently they didn't even have a licensed lab to do the testing so they just never tested. I like to believe he is clean but it is also understandable if a cloud of suspicion does accompany every Jamaican track and field athlete.
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
Plenty of people have suspected Nadal over the years.. But why don't the same numbers of people suspect Murray/Fed/Nole?

Murray got jacked quickly physique wise. Nole couldn't even finish a slam one year, than the next hes the object of consistency and can physically go forever. Fed hasn't missed even ONE slam in over a decade and never physically breaks down
Nadal wins by superior stamina. However it has been gone since the inception of bio passport (which is effectively the similar analysis this article is talking about).

The other three guys you named still have their stamina. We can't say anyone is above suspicion, but we can say Nadal is far more suspicious due to the corelation of his level and bio passport.

Warren Buffett says only after the tide goes out do you find who have been swimming naked. We just have to wait and see, as time usually clears up a lot of things.
 

moonballs

Hall of Fame
Makes me laugh when people are naive enough to believe there's no doping in tennis. Nadal sprints around like a gazelle for 4 hours at a time and no one says a word lol.
Well what could people say? maybe he is really genetically better or trains harder.

However he is not supposed to lose his naturally superior stamina after bio passport is introduced, isn't he? In his loss to Nole he just gave up on the drop shots. In the old days even with sore knees he would always make a run for the droppers.
 
K

King Fed WW

Guest
If course there is doping in tennis, I don't think it is rife though. Being rife in endurance events at athletics is a whole different ball game to tennis. Doping WOULD benefit tennis players but not to the same extent as athletes, and this is utterly crucial in influencing how much a sport gets sucked into a doping culture. If I had to pick one sportsman in the world to be clean, if my life depended on it, I would pick Andy Murray. He has had increbile success and that givesme hope that cleantennis players can be and are very successful.

In reality these aren't revelations at all, surely we all knew almost every Russian athlete was doping, and they won lots of medals. Plenty of the London medalists have been popped since 2012, all the walkers etc, just hoping the medals will be redistributed. The Russian Fed cover up the drugs test and tip off athletes re testing. In the UK there is actual testing going on. This might just mean the Russian can dope aggressively while others may have to be more conservative in order to avoid detection, the conservative dopers are less likely to turn up at a major champ with crazy blood values. But they would still be cheating. For example there is no way Mo Farah could get away with what the Russians do, does that mean his clean? not necessarily.

Some of the period mentioned was before the biological passport, so of course endurance events were the same way as cycling. Would be incredible to think they were not.

For a good while epo was not detectable, therefore athletes all over the world including tennis players were definitely using it. It all comes down to culture in tennis though. You have to be in a certain culture to get the PEDs.

We know there was spanish tennis players doping, we just have to hope they were not grand slam champions.

Re Bolt, he is not likely to have suspect blood values as he is a sprinter not an endurance runner and therefore would receive less benefit from blood doping.

Also a suspect blood value does not mean an athlete is guilty.

Plenty of people have suspected Nadal over the years.. But why don't the same numbers of people suspect Murray/Fed/Nole?

Murray got jacked quickly physique wise. Nole couldn't even finish a slam one year, than the next hes the object of consistency and can physically go forever. Fed hasn't missed even ONE slam in over a decade and never physically breaks down

This, the Nadal witch hunt is ridiculous. But how else could he beat peak Fed more than once? ;)


Because no newspaper named them as a client of a specific doping doctor. Nadal has sat in a Wimbledon press conference and had to specifically answer questions regarding whether or not there was bags of his blood in Dr.Fuentes freezer. That is why he is suspected more than the others. Amazing how tennis fans don't even know this.


Of course plenty if his haters probably don't even know this either. They accuse him due to hate.


This doesn't mean Nadal was doping, and I really hope he is/was clean

Also stop trying to pretend it is just haters.

from ESPN

Few know more about the stigma Spanish athletes can expect to face than Rafael Nadal. Ever since he burst onto the scene as a muscle-bound teen with a hyper-physical game and serious staying power, the Mallorcan has endured whispers about whether or not he is clean. Just last year he was portrayed as a doper on a French sketch show.

Nadal is the most suspect but I repeat this does not make him guilty and I really hope he is clean.
 
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