Is Tennis a "dirty" sport ? It has to stop!

Tennis needs changes if not more and more kids will be leaving our sport. Last couple of years I see a trend were junior players don't play tournaments not because they don't want to but because they want to avoid all this unsportsmanlike behavior that's becoming a plague. What do You think?

Agreed, tennis reflects the degradation of the culture as a whole, poor character, lack of respect for the law and those responsible for their enforcement such as the police. I as a senior don't look forward to playing due to the poor character of many who inhabit the courts these days--present company excluded, I don't think those who bother to inhabit a tennis board such as this one are the problem.

The days of Sportsmen like Arthur Ashe are long gone it seems. To much emphasis on winning at all costs in the pro levels of major sports and it filters down to the kids (and apparently their parents as well).

I don't think the kids will find it better in any other sport though. Bad sportsmanship is pretty rampant everywhere.

I think the only option is that tennis needs to evaluate like everything else in life.
Referees present even if it will raise the cost of the tournaments , high school kids needs volunteer hours or couple dollars . There should be ne position like Court assistant that they will fill in.
Current system wont produce champions, cant see it happening.

As someone who coached a USA top 10 ranked junior only a few years ago, I can tell you that the stress put on the kids now is unbelievable, for gear sponsorships, USTA travel money, etc. If you don't win (no matter how you do it) you don't get the perks. It's worse on the ladies side then the mens. The line calling is abysmal, the parents are worse. Most parents of top juniors are spending a minimum of $50K a year between tennis academies, coaching, and travel. They want to see some results for that money spent. I've seen them try to pay off officials, try to rig local tournament draws, you name it. And the gamesmanship is so far over the top you would never believe it, mostly taught to them by the academies.

I have never really disliked the competition just because the opponent can be a dick, just gives me more of a reason to win. However there are times when their lines calling gets pretty rough

TennisProCoach said:

Referees present even if it will raise the cost of the tournaments , high school kids needs volunteer hours or couple dollars . There should be ne position like Court assistant that they will fill in.

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This, IMO, is the best thing they could do. I coached high school tennis for 3 years, and saw so many blatant hooks, by both my players and opposing players. If I saw one of my girls make a really bad call, I'd overrule them, but when walking around 6 courts, its impossible to pick up everything.

Imagine what a soccer match would be like if the defense had to call offsides, or a basketball game with each player calling their own fouls, or a football game where the defense gets to call holding. That is essentially what we're asking teenagers to do: understand and enforce the rules of tennis.

They either need officials at all courts, or get electronic line calling in place for matches. Soccer tournaments have 3 referees for each match, and there are usually 8-10 matches going on at any given time. Most tennis tournaments don't have more than 4-6 courts, so train high school kids to be officials and sit them out there on the courts. Increase the tournament fee by $10 to offset some of the costs.

McLovin said:

This, IMO, is the best thing they could do. I coached high school tennis for 3 years, and saw so many blatant hooks, by both my players and opposing players. If I saw one of my girls make a really bad call, I'd overrule them, but when walking around 6 courts, its impossible to pick up everything.

Imagine what a soccer match would be like if the defense had to call offsides, or a basketball game with each player calling their own fouls, or a football game where the defense gets to call holding. That is essentially what we're asking teenagers to do: understand and enforce the rules of tennis.

They either need officials at all courts, or get electronic line calling in place for matches. Soccer tournaments have 3 referees for each match, and there are usually 8-10 matches going on at any given time. Most tennis tournaments don't have more than 4-6 courts, so train high school kids to be officials and sit them out there on the courts. Increase the tournament fee by $10 to offset some of the costs.

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I agree and love the idea

It's the "win at all costs" mentality.

This is why it's so important for coaches to develop the juniors character more than their tennis skills. You can still give it all you've got without cheating, but they have to learn it. It's way easier to be competitive and cheat than it is to be competitive and win. It's not easy to call a ball in when it was on the line at 5-5 in the tie breaker.

It's hard because the kids learn from the parents more than the coaches. You got bad parents? You'll have bad kids and there's nothing you can do about it. I volunteer my time at a public school, so the kids are usually a little feisty, but it's WAY worse in the private schools where many of the parents are in competitive fields and there is a lot of "intensity" at home. They've got all the best gear, coaching, and their kid needs to win because they are going to get a scholarships, and you're going to help them do it by first writing them 10 recommendations to the following schools and playing them in first singles every match this season...

coloskier said:

As someone who coached a USA top 10 ranked junior only a few years ago, I can tell you that the stress put on the kids now is unbelievable, for gear sponsorships, USTA travel money, etc. If you don't win (no matter how you do it) you don't get the perks. It's worse on the ladies side then the mens. The line calling is abysmal, the parents are worse. Most parents of top juniors are spending a minimum of $50K a year between tennis academies, coaching, and travel. They want to see some results for that money spent. I've seen them try to pay off officials, try to rig local tournament draws, you name it. And the gamesmanship is so far over the top you would never believe it, mostly taught to them by the academies.

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Thank You for comment. I am more familiar with European junior tennis and we ( I also want to credit other coaches that work with me) developed couple juniors that turned pro . Age 10-13 is one of the most important times in development of tennis techniques so we encourage no results but quality performance. Our saying before match is "Play like You train" and we guide parents to not sign up for many tournaments. Our study showed it works pretty good and when they start really competing at around age 12-13 with the skills and being more mature they handle opponents very well .My point is that putting young kids into environment where they have to worry about everything but else but playing tennis does not help development. We have also talked about it to our National Tennis Federation and proposed allowing coaching time between sets in U10 and U12s because it's all about development and they seriously think about it. You have to teach kids how o recognize a game , opponent and what's happening on court and that would be a great tool to have.On the end it's all about how good they will be when they grow up not now. Thank You for a great discussion.

I

NTRPolice said:

It's the "win at all costs" mentality.

This is why it's so important for coaches to develop the juniors character more than their tennis skills. You can still give it all you've got without cheating, but they have to learn it. It's way easier to be competitive and cheat than it is to be competitive and win. It's not easy to call a ball in when it was on the line at 5-5 in the tie breaker.

It's hard because the kids learn from the parents more than the coaches. You got bad parents? You'll have bad kids and there's nothing you can do about it. I volunteer my time at a public school, so the kids are usually a little feisty, but it's WAY worse in the private schools where many of the parents are in competitive fields and there is a lot of "intensity" at home. They've got all the best gear, coaching, and their kid needs to win because they are going to get a scholarships, and you're going to help them do it by first writing them 10 recommendations to the following schools and playing them in first singles every match this season...

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I agree . Just wonder why , if adults recognize this is a problem, nobody do anything to change it ? Why nobody explain to parents and these players it won't take you far because at some point there will be referees , overrules , penalty points and even disqualifications and tennis career will come to stop? And I agree it's parents first than coaches but if parents encourage that coaches very often are vulnerable. Thank You for your opinion.

TennisProCoach said:

I

I agree . Just wonder why , if adults recognize this is a problem, nobody do anything to change it ? Why nobody explain to parents and these players it won't take you far because at some point there will be referees , overrules , penalty points and even disqualifications and tennis career will come to stop? And I agree it's parents first than coaches but if parents encourage that coaches very often are vulnerable. Thank You for your opinion.

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As a parent who's coached lots of competitive youth sports, I can tell you its all sports. Many adults, including myself, recognize the problems. I can tell you, most of them start with the parents. They don't get their way for their kid, they complain/manipulate the coach or organization or other parents. If they still aren't happy, they go to another program. There are no real consequences for bad behavior on the part of parents or kids as they can just leave and there are other programs happy to take a chance just to win. One or two can ruin a team if you let it -don't let it.

There is a positive part of this. Teach your kids the right way, lead by example and do the right things. In the end, those who do the same will be the only ones standing. The kids who learned to throw a fit or cheat will have a hard time adapting in the long run.

TennisProCoach said:

Tennis needs changes if not more and more kids will be leaving our sport. Last couple of years I see a trend were junior players don't play tournaments not because they don't want to but because they want to avoid all this unsportsmanlike behavior that's becoming a plague. What do You think?

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this stuff happens in other sports too.
through the years i've had to continually remind the kids i'm coaching (soccer) why it's important to act like gentlemen on the field. the big one is complaining about the refs. now i make the kids shake the refs hands at the end of every game, and thank them for their service (regardless of how wrong they think the refs cheated them - got this from "Matheny Manifesto")

definitely have known kids to quit competitive tennis (and they were good!) because of the unsportsmanlike crap that goes on... line calls are the biggest issue... so when done right (IMO) kids are taught that if they hit a line, expect it will be called out, even though they would call it in for their opponent. yup, unfair, but I think the only way to proceed sanely.

I'd say this would be less likely to happen if tennis players didnt tolerate it so much.

You get some unsportsmanlike conduct, you call that doocher out.
If they got a problem with it, or dont stop it, then you help them fix it.

In my experience, 8/10 times, if you confront the person they cut it out, the other 2/10 times you get 1 wanting to bow up and the other who continues to do it anyways.
For the ones who bow up, they never carry through if you challenge them.
For the one who keeps it up, then I lower myself to their level and return all the bad conduct. It works pretty good too because those personality types cannot handle taking it like they can giving it.

And for the record, in every sport I've ever played I have run across dirty players.
This is not unique to tennis, its part of human nature and psychology.

TennisProCoach said:

I

I agree . Just wonder why , if adults recognize this is a problem, nobody do anything to change it ? Why nobody explain to parents and these players it won't take you far because at some point there will be referees , overrules , penalty points and even disqualifications and tennis career will come to stop? And I agree it's parents first than coaches but if parents encourage that coaches very often are vulnerable. Thank You for your opinion.

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Because parents want to look out for their kids athletic development and generally do not care about the program as a whole or developing their child as a person. When the tennis coach tries to teach "life skills" the parents generally dont like it because you're just a tennis coach to them. Benching their kid for bad behavior when their kid is the best player on the team doesnt make sense to them. You should be teaching them tennis and nothing else. That's what they think.

Besides, once a kid shows any amount of potential, parents are already looking at how this can turn into some form of money. Kid wins states and parents are looking at tennis scholarships or traveling for tournaments when they dont know how any of that works. If you bench that kid for bad behavior during a match that has college scouters in the crowd the parents will be very upset. Lol, reminds me of a parent that couldnt understand why their kid was kicked off the team for vandalizing another schools tennis court when they offered to pay for the damages, but actually was blaming another kid in the process.

There are some parents that understand. However, the biggest problem is with the parents who dont. It's never their kids fault. Their kid never does anything wrong. You are just a tennis coach and they will discipline their kids their own way.

I think many of the worst parents are "projecting" themselves onto their kids.

Some coaches do "do something" about it. Our head coach doesnt put up with B.S. no matter how good your kid is. He will tell a parent "this program is not for you." and remove their child from the program. Some coaches only care about the W and will play the best players even if they are the worst offenders. Some coaches do not assert themselves and let the loudest parents run the show. This is why when you're the parent you need to look at the coaching staff for the one that best suits your needs.

cknobman said:

I'd say this would be less likely to happen if tennis players didnt tolerate it so much.

You get some unsportsmanlike conduct, you call that doocher out.
If they got a problem with it, or dont stop it, then you help them fix it.

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Honestly, I find people who question other people's line calls typically to be the more unsportsmanlike player. I can't ever really recall someone calling my shots out maliciously (in usta league). But I have seen a lot of people give each other the stink eye or argue about line calls when they thought their own shot were in. As a spectator, some times it was and some times it was not.

I have not actually run across a player who will consistently call a lot of in balls out. But I do see a lot more players who will be aggressive about trying to call you out on your "bad" calls.

NTRPolice said:

Because parents want to look out for their kids athletic development and generally do not care about the program as a whole or developing their child as a person. When the tennis coach tries to teach "life skills" the parents generally dont like it because you're just a tennis coach to them. Benching their kid for bad behavior when their kid is the best player on the team doesnt make sense to them. You should be teaching them tennis and nothing else. That's what they think.

Besides, once a kid shows any amount of potential, parents are already looking at how this can turn into some form of money. Kid wins states and parents are looking at tennis scholarships or traveling for tournaments when they dont know how any of that works. If you bench that kid for bad behavior during a match that has college scouters in the crowd the parents will be very upset. Lol, reminds me of a parent that couldnt understand why their kid was kicked off the team for vandalizing another schools tennis court when they offered to pay for the damages, but actually was blaming another kid in the process.

There are some parents that understand. However, the biggest problem is with the parents who dont. It's never their kids fault. Their kid never does anything wrong. You are just a tennis coach and they will discipline their kids their own way.

I think many of the worst parents are "projecting" themselves onto their kids.

Some coaches do "do something" about it. Our head coach doesnt put up with B.S. no matter how good your kid is. He will tell a parent "this program is not for you." and remove their child from the program. Some coaches only care about the W and will play the best players even if they are the worst offenders. Some coaches do not assert themselves and let the loudest parents run the show. This is why when you're the parent you need to look at the coaching staff for the one that best suits your needs.

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and usually either the parent is jerk themselves, and/or they've never competed before.
everyone that i know that's competed beyond HS are of the "play sports for the life skills" mentallity.

nytennisaddict said:

and usually either the parent is jerk themselves, and/or they've never competed before.
everyone that i know that's competed beyond HS are of the "play sports for the life skills" mentallity.

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That's the way it actually is, and people who dont know it dont realize how rare is it for a kid to get a scholarship or go pro. Every season there is a hand full of parents asking about college tennis. And by "asking" I mean they wont like no for an answer. You cannot go beyond high school tennis without "life skills" unless you have an insane amount of talent. Everyone thinks their kid who "places in states" is this talent. Wrong.

You CAN make the college tennis team by working on your tennis and red shirting, improving through the years. You dont have to be recruited on full scholarship as a freshman to make the team. Everyone forgets that you can "work" you way into college tennis, but not without life skills. If you red shirt freshman and sophomore years you can work your way on the team. You arnt going to make the team if you're flunking out of college, dont come to practice, lie to your coaches, and fight with teammates and opponents.

Very few go on to play college. Even fewer get scholarships. Almost no one goes pro.

This is why teaching life skills is so important and should be the number 1 priority. High school tennis programs are not for the 1:100 that will play some form of college, or the 1:10,000 that will get a tennis scholarship, or the 1:100,000 that earns a $1 or more on tour. High school tennis programs certainly DO NOT limit a child's ability. If you want just tennis development? Pay for it.

nytennisaddict said:

and usually either the parent is jerk themselves, and/or they've never competed before.
everyone that i know that's competed beyond HS are of the "play sports for the life skills" mentallity.

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I've always found the jerks are never the best players, it's the ones that are not quite that good, but so desperately want to be thought of in that tier. The best are usually cool, the middle and lower are cool, but it's the "good enough to play a lot of minutes but not quite good enough to be the best" guys that are jerks, because they think the bad*** act will get them over the top.

NTRPolice said:

That's the way it actually is, and people who dont know it dont realize how rare is it for a kid to get a scholarship or go pro. Every season there is a hand full of parents asking about college tennis. And by "asking" I mean they wont like no for an answer. You cannot go beyond high school tennis without "life skills" unless you have an insane amount of talent. Everyone thinks their kid who "places in states" is this talent. Wrong.

You CAN make the college tennis team by working on your tennis and red shirting, improving through the years. You dont have to be recruited on full scholarship as a freshman to make the team. Everyone forgets that you can "work" you way into college tennis, but not without life skills. If you red shirt freshman and sophomore years you can work your way on the team. You arnt going to make the team if you're flunking out of college, dont come to practice, lie to your coaches, and fight with teammates and opponents.

Very few go on to play college. Even fewer get scholarships. Almost no one goes pro.

This is why teaching life skills is so important and should be the number 1 priority. High school tennis programs are not for the 1:100 that will play some form of college, or the 1:10,000 that will get a tennis scholarship, or the 1:100,000 that earns a $1 or more on tour. High school tennis programs certainly DO NOT limit a child's ability. If you want just tennis development? Pay for it.

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preach on, brother, speak it loud and wide

nytennisaddict said:

and usually either the parent is jerk themselves, and/or they've never competed before.
everyone that i know that's competed beyond HS are of the "play sports for the life skills" mentallity.

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As a parent of a junior competitive player, I do see bad sportsmanship that seemingly goes unchecked.

Parents that can't watch their kids (too stressful) so the kid has no one observing on court behaviours and conflicts with line calls.
No officials to provide a warning when someone throws their racquet.

And I haven't even gotten into higher levels that sees parents being the culprits. You see the trend with one-sports kids that obsess about it and it consumes them.

It's also too bad tennis doesn't have the volunteering requirement that many swim leagues have with certified judges at all points of the pool spot checking for violations. Maybe players themselves need to volunteer as line judges for tournaments they are not playing in.

Man, I'm glad I know my son will only play HS varsity tennis. He'll need to focus on studies in college. But hopefully he keeps tennis as a life sport as well as his swimming.

Traffic said:

As a parent of a junior competitive player, I do see bad sportsmanship that seemingly goes unchecked.

Parents that can't watch their kids (too stressful) so the kid has no one observing on court behaviours and conflicts with line calls.
No officials to provide a warning when someone throws their racquet.

And I haven't even gotten into higher levels that sees parents being the culprits. You see the trend with one-sports kids that obsess about it and it consumes them.

It's also too bad tennis doesn't have the volunteering requirement that many swim leagues have with certified judges at all points of the pool spot checking for violations. Maybe players themselves need to volunteer as line judges for tournaments they are not playing in.

Man, I'm glad I know my son will only play HS varsity tennis. He'll need to focus on studies in college. But hopefully he keeps tennis as a life sport as well as his swimming.

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Our coaching staff for our public school has 6 coaches on it. There are always at least 4 coaches at every match, boys and girls. We watch all the courts more or less simultaneously for bad behavior, mostly from our school, but the other team as well. We have a good working relationship between many of the other teams coaches.

If your coaching staff is thin, you can even recruit volunteer coaches who dont even play tennis. Just by putting eyes on the players, they tend to behave a bit better. We have some coaches on our team that havnt played adult league ever. They're basically inactive in terms of playing tennis. However, they are good people and good to have around. You can even recruit parents too. Just make sure those parents arnt the problem parents.

TennisProCoach said:

Tennis needs changes if not more and more kids will be leaving our sport. Last couple of years I see a trend were junior players don't play tournaments not because they don't want to but because they want to avoid all this unsportsmanlike behavior that's becoming a plague. What do You think?

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I agree 100%. Tennis players are the worst sportsmen I have ever seen in any sport. I was an official for four years and the boys were especially bad. The players are much better in the other sports.

silentkman said:

I agree 100%. Tennis players are the worst sportsmen I have ever seen in any sport. I was an official for four years and the boys were especially bad. The players are much better in the other sports.

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I definitely know a few parents that have allowed their kids to give up on tennis (ie. they were multiactivity kids anyway) because of the ugliness that goes on in youth tennis tourneys... moved to other activities where presumably they'd be exposed to a higher % of folks with championship life skills.

silentkman said:

I agree 100%. Tennis players are the worst sportsmen I have ever seen in any sport. I was an official for four years and the boys were especially bad. The players are much better in the other sports.

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nytennisaddict said:

I definitely know a few parents that have allowed their kids to give up on tennis (ie. they were multiactivity kids anyway) because of the ugliness that goes on in youth tennis tourneys... moved to other activities where presumably they'd be exposed to a higher % of folks with championship life skills.

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Al Stoley said:

It's getting bad all over. I went to a volleyball tournament and the lack of sportspersonship was appalling. One team would throw the ball as far AWAY from their opponents as possible to force the opposing team to walk as far as possible to retrieve the ball to serve.

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Let's add a bit of perspective to all of this.

In a group of 100, how many display these characteristics? Then you might want to define how frequent this group exhibits the bad behavior or under what circumstances. Now, compare that with other sports. Is it better, worse, or about the same? What I'm getting at is, you don't want to say "tennis is bad" because X% of kids (adults) exhibit bad behavior "sometimes".
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But here is what I think the problem really is. I've been a runner most of my life. When I was in high school and college, if people were using the track and not following the rules (written or "understood"), they were immediately corrected. For example, if you were walking in lanes designated for running, you were told "damn fast" to move over to the walking lanes. And when these people were told, their reaction was almost always one of shame. They would apologize (either for their ignorance or disobeying of the rules) and quickly correct their behavior. And if they didn't, management would quickly tell them to follow the rules or they would be banned from the place. No discussion. The social pressure from all others using the track made it "very uncomfortable" to break the rules (and not give a damn). It really just wasn't possible to do.

Now things are different. When I run on the track in the morning, there are rules that specifically say how the track should be used. Many people don't follow them. When I first started using this track some years ago, I corrected them (because that's how I was brought up and what I knew). And without exception, people didn't act with a sense of shame, apologize, or correct their behavior. Instead, they got angry at me and told me "you don't own the track", etc. I was surprised at first and asked management to step in and enforce their rules. I told them that it was in everybody's interest to have all participants use the track according to the rules, or it gets chaotic and dangerous. Management basically told me they weren't going to do anything and that I should just "chill out". Essentially, they don't want to offend anyone and have them leave and lose the revenue. So the behavior correction was on my end. And I've learned it is not permissible to question the behavior of individuals, and I don't.

Now you may be agreeing that rules aren't important. That I should just "chill out". That is the culture we live in. But, this general attitude will have consequences. And IMO, that is, at least partially, what is going on in tennis (and other sports). In a culture of individualism, it is very hard to get people to cooperate in group activities. Someone will always see the advantage of breaking the rules. And if they cannot be quickly and effectively corrected and forced to follow the rules, the activity simply breaks down or at least becomes less pleasant for the group as a whole. Others see someone else getting away with it and reason (quite rightly) that they had better do the same, or they will be at a disadvantage. (This is essentially "Social Contract Theory" by the way).

But hasn't there always been cheating in tennis? Haven't people always done this if they could "get away with it"? Sure. But I believe that cheating wasn't as tolerated in the past as it is now. I may be wrong, but I believe the social pressures and expectations were different. Much like my running example above, rule breakers were quickly corrected. If someone refused to comply they were dealt with, either socially by "shunning" and/or those in authority actively stepped in and made it clear that such behavior would not be tolerated. Now I think otherwise "good people" think nothing of cheating or breaking the rules "now and then". Everybody does it. And unless you can change the culture on the wide scale (which is doubtful to say the least), nothing can be done about it in tennis in particular.

The only thing you can do is narrow your group down to "like minded people" for which rules do mean something and can be enforced by social pressure and/or management (this is what joining the "right club" is all about). But in the "hurly burly" of large scale public participation sports, nothing can be done in a practical sense. And all of the rhetoric in the world won't change that.

r2473 said:

The only thing you can do is narrow your group down to "like minded people" for which rules do mean something and can be enforced by social pressure and/or management (this is what joining the "right club" is all about).

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Agree 1000%, it's due to a culture having more money then brains + a dis-education system at all levels from pre-school through grad-school that doesn't educate and only teaches how to pass tests, self esteem based on nothing and willful disobedience of right-full authority. You used to have two sponsors to join my club, now you just need two check-books. When I first joined there was a club host who made matches and a club manager who walked the property--back then you couldn't sue for having your feelings hurt, and everyone got along. Today there is NO management presence and if you knock on the manager's closed door you are labeled a "complainer".

If you know an old-school style club that still values the traditions and rules of tennis please let us know. Last time I played a tournament at La Jolla Beach and Tennis Club, it was still one of those clubs with ownership that had tennis in their blood and supervision on the courts. Any others you know of?

Kids pressured by parents vicariously re-living their own failures

tennis tom said:

You used to have two sponsors to join my club, now you just need two check-books. If you know an old-school style club that still values the traditions and rules of tennis please let us know.

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You need both at this club. However, Andy Murray is at least an honorary member, so their standards have certainly dropped some.

Dartagnan64 said:

The days of Sportsmen like Arthur Ashe are long gone it seems. To much emphasis on winning at all costs in the pro levels of major sports and it filters down to the kids (and apparently their parents as well).

I don't think the kids will find it better in any other sport though. Bad sportsmanship is pretty rampant everywhere.

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NTRPolice said:

It's the "win at all costs" mentality.

This is why it's so important for coaches to develop the juniors character more than their tennis skills. You can still give it all you've got without cheating, but they have to learn it. It's way easier to be competitive and cheat than it is to be competitive and win. It's not easy to call a ball in when it was on the line at 5-5 in the tie breaker.

It's hard because the kids learn from the parents more than the coaches. You got bad parents? You'll have bad kids and there's nothing you can do about it. I volunteer my time at a public school, so the kids are usually a little feisty, but it's WAY worse in the private schools where many of the parents are in competitive fields and there is a lot of "intensity" at home. They've got all the best gear, coaching, and their kid needs to win because they are going to get a scholarships, and you're going to help them do it by first writing them 10 recommendations to the following schools and playing them in first singles every match this season...

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I'm very happy with my son's coach. He emphasizes accuracy of line calls and "the benefit of the doubt." Most of the players he coaches are generous in their line calls.

Between my son's events and mine, I spend a lot of time at the local tennis courts. It is rare to see line calls so consistently bad in one player's favor that I suspect intentional cheating. The public school events have a poor level of play and often a poor level of line calling, but the randomness of it seems more attributable to inattention than intentional cheating. The junior (non-school) events have a higher level of play. Some line calls are missed, but it's not like cheating, it's more just like human - things happen pretty fast out there. The adult events I see don't give much evidence of cheating either.

In short, the evidence I see suggests that tennis coaches and parents are doing a pretty good job emphasizing character over winning.

Some of the other sporting events my children and/or I participate in also have strong components of self-officiating: the shooting sports (rifle and pistol), golf, Ultimate frisbee, and fishing tournaments. Is cheating sometimes suspected? Sure. But it's not rampant.

I'm trying to recall how much the last USTA tourney cost - I'm thinking it was $35-$40. I'm not sure raising that enough to pay for someone to call lines/officiate every match would create the intended outcome. Invariably, increasing the price always reduces the participation levels. Can USTA really afford more decreases in participation? Given the decent line calling I see, the purported benefits just don't justify the increased cost and likely reductions in participation.

My children and I have seen more examples of bad sportsmanship in fencing than we have in tennis, and fencing has every bout officiated. We've also seen price increases in other sports purportedly justified by improvements in officiating and scoring and official sanction going to simply increase the profits of the organizers. I expect the same thing would be true in USTA events - actual benefits to players would not be in line with the cost increases.

As a parent spending thousands on my son's tennis each year, I'll pass on cost increases even if there is a promise of improved officiating. As an adult tourney player, I'll also pass. The events I play are pretty friendly and welcoming. If they aren't, I don't see that more officials would improve that. I just move along to more friendly and welcoming venues next time.

MathGeek said:

I'm very happy with my son's coach. He emphasizes accuracy of line calls and "the benefit of the doubt." Most of the players he coaches are generous in their line calls.

Between my son's events and mine, I spend a lot of time at the local tennis courts. It is rare to see line calls so consistently bad in one player's favor that I suspect intentional cheating. The public school events have a poor level of play and often a poor level of line calling, but the randomness of it seems more attributable to inattention than intentional cheating. The junior (non-school) events have a higher level of play. Some line calls are missed, but it's not like cheating, it's more just like human - things happen pretty fast out there. The adult events I see don't give much evidence of cheating either.

In short, the evidence I see suggests that tennis coaches and parents are doing a pretty good job emphasizing character over winning.

Some of the other sporting events my children and/or I participate in also have strong components of self-officiating: the shooting sports (rifle and pistol), golf, Ultimate frisbee, and fishing tournaments. Is cheating sometimes suspected? Sure. But it's not rampant.

I'm trying to recall how much the last USTA tourney cost - I'm thinking it was $35-$40. I'm not sure raising that enough to pay for someone to call lines/officiate every match would create the intended outcome. Invariably, increasing the price always reduces the participation levels. Can USTA really afford more decreases in participation? Given the decent line calling I see, the purported benefits just don't justify the increased cost and likely reductions in participation.

My children and I have seen more examples of bad sportsmanship in fencing than we have in tennis, and fencing has every bout officiated. We've also seen price increases in other sports purportedly justified by improvements in officiating and scoring and official sanction going to simply increase the profits of the organizers. I expect the same thing would be true in USTA events - actual benefits to players would not be in line with the cost increases.

As a parent spending thousands on my son's tennis each year, I'll pass on cost increases even if there is a promise of improved officiating. As an adult tourney player, I'll also pass. The events I play are pretty friendly and welcoming. If they aren't, I don't see that more officials would improve that. I just move along to more friendly and welcoming venues next time.

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Is a fee increase necessary though? Wouldn't volunteers to officiate be sufficient? Swimming has them, golf has them. Why can't tennis get volunteers? Why do the tennis people need to be paid?

Bluefan75 said:

Is a fee increase necessary though? Wouldn't volunteers to officiate be sufficient? Swimming has them, golf has them. Why can't tennis get volunteers? Why do the tennis people need to be paid?

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You'll get what you pay for...don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that alot of the officials at Jr tournaments are great, at least at the local level; however the bigger events usually get the better ones (ITF events, big Nationals ((but not always))).

If they were paid and treated better (from tournament directors) they would attract the better umpires...trust me when the players, parents and coaches recognize the umpires from televised matches it makes a big difference in how those events run....

As far as cheating goes...well its not just at the rec events...the ITA (college) is just as bad if not worse...and at the bigfer schools there is a chair umpire at every match, but the ITA rules restrict the umpires unless they are appealed to...

The problem is the USTA, ITA and local referees and sections and districts have all dropped the ball on training, monitoring, and developing their umpires...

And the players all know it.

Bluefan75 said:

Is a fee increase necessary though? Wouldn't volunteers to officiate be sufficient? Swimming has them, golf has them. Why can't tennis get volunteers? Why do the tennis people need to be paid?

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That's a good point to consider. Volunteer labor is a tricky deal. Dunno if one would likely get sufficient volunteers to handle the work load. Also, the way local tennis cliques tend to work, volunteer officials may well face more temptation to throw calls than the players. Not being able to terminate employment and be a negative reference kinda makes it harder to keep the officials honest.

Volunteer judges and officials in these local deals often have some private motive to volunteer. And exercising those private motives is problematic.

TennisProCoach said:

Tennis needs changes if not more and more kids will be leaving our sport. Last couple of years I see a trend were junior players don't play tournaments not because they don't want to but because they want to avoid all this unsportsmanlike behavior that's becoming a plague. What do You think?

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make a 3rd person mandatory for all calls.

A lot of good points but at the same time the rose-colored glasses are strong in this thread.

nytennisaddict said:

I definitely know a few parents that have allowed their kids to give up on tennis (ie. they were multiactivity kids anyway) because of the ugliness that goes on in youth tennis tourneys... moved to other activities where presumably they'd be exposed to a higher % of folks with championship life skills.

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I steered my son to youth baseball several years ago after observing some of the ugliness in youth tennis. Maybe it's the individual nature of the sport. My son has definitely gained socialization and teamwork skills playing baseball. Often the 13-14 year old kids demonstrate more maturity than their parents. But to be fair to tennis, I've seen much ugliness in youth team sports as well, mostly by the adults.

TennisProCoach said:

Tennis needs changes if not more and more kids will be leaving our sport. Last couple of years I see a trend were junior players don't play tournaments not because they don't want to but because they want to avoid all this unsportsmanlike behavior that's becoming a plague. What do You think?

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The reason tennis is falling through the floor is because idiots want to make it even more into a tea-ladies event.

More Kyrgiotics = More popularity

Well I have played competitive sports all my life. I am turning 47 next week. It is simply a fact that I have seen the poorest sportsmanship in tennis. I don't know exactly why, but I have a few opinions. In my case, I have known more tennis players who did not excel or even play other team sports. In many cases, they were not the best athletes either. Some seemed to put an awful lot importance on winning. I like to win as much as anyone, but I know how to take my medicine too. Other sports experiences help one to understand that every bird has to land. The word brat comes to mind. Just does. And poor losers do not have an age limit unfortunately.

newpball said:

idiots what to make it even more into a tea-ladies event.

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The 3 ladies run the clubs.

newpball said:

The reason tennis is falling through the floor is because idiots want to make it even more into a tea-ladies event.

More Kyrgiotics = More popularity

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I'd take less popular over that crap on court personally.

I definitely think that juniors would play more tennis if it was a team sport.
Also, if it was officiated, so that the bad kids can't just get away with whatever they want, which is my view makes tennis not fun for the kids.

Topspin Shot said:

A lot of good points but at the same time the rose-colored glasses are strong in this thread.

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Strange huh. So many problems in tennis that are "the other guys" fault. An unexpected result. Sort of like driving. So many idiots on the road (basically everyone but me).

I'd like to see a response that said "the problem with tennis is me. I make the worst line calls and cheat whenever I get the chance, especially on the big points. I'm also a very poor sport. Others accuse me of this and I deny it, but of course I know they are right and I am wrong. I wish I could play tennis in the manner of everyone else who are basically perfect, but I just can't"

tennis tom said:

Agreed, tennis reflects the degradation of the culture as a whole, poor character, lack of respect for the law and those responsible for their enforcement such as the police. I as a senior don't look forward to playing due to the poor character of many who inhabit the courts these days--present company excluded, I don't think those who bother to inhabit a tennis board such as this one are the problem.

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Im not just targetting you for the record, I am going to post this for all to see.

Tennis is not any more unsportsmanlike than it has ever been. We are growing up with Federer not Mcenroe, not to mention nastase. Don't call out this millenial generation for whats going on because it has as much to do with us as every other generation.

Ive seen many clubs where the older guests are rude and entitled and expect to be ahead of younger members and teenagers in everything.

Used to be that Tennis was associated with a "gentlemen's" sport. In movies, they'd have a scene in a nice home where someone walks in well dressed carrying their tennis racquet...