String buzz problem solving.

Osteo UK · May 17, 2017

Usual stick is Wilson Blade 2015 18x20 with Revolve 17 @ 48lbs, I string it myself, been stringing for years, not certified as it's just for me.

Demoed and liked the Pure Drive Tour, so picked one up and strung with Revolve, but the frame buzz was awful - demo was fine. Tried it with different strings and no different so Babolat swapped it over.

New one was better, still not right, so I tried Revolve 17 and Cyclone 16 at tensions from 42 to 57 and the string bed just sounds horrible. Could it be my knots or my stringing? I I don't know, never had a problem with any racquet in the past.

The frame itself has no vibration at all as far as I can tell. Tonight I really tried to work it out with the Cyclone 16 at 42. Certain parts of the string bed are not as bad, such as near the throat (bouncing ball on the court in different areas of the string bed.

I'm thinking that it could be to do with how close the tie off knot on the crosses is at the top as it's quite close up there. Don't even know if it's anything to do with my other knots, but I want to try and problem solve it if there's any ideas.

I'll keep these string in as the test base, thinking if there is anything I can experiment with on the string bed to just to work it out.

Any suggestions are welcome.

esgee48 · May 17, 2017

No trapdoor, right? If you have one (doubt it), make sure it is securely fasten.
Are the tails of your knots barely touching the frame? I find that they should either touch the frame a lot or not touch it at all.
Using the right tie offs? MTO is 8 throat. XTO is 6 tip and 6 throat. Should be plenty of room for knots.
Does buzzing stop with a dampener or multiple dampers? Perhaps isolate area where buzzing stops due to dampener.
Look over the grommet tubes near the suspected buzz. Is the tube too small or too short for the hole in the frame?
Does stringing with a SG have the same buzz effect? So far, you have only used polys.

Osteo UK · May 17, 2017

esgee48 said:
No trapdoor, right? If you have one (doubt it), make sure it is securely fasten.
Are the tails of your knots barely touching the frame? I find that they should either touch the frame a lot or not touch it at all.
Using the right tie offs? MTO is 8 throat. XTO is 6 tip and 6 throat. Should be plenty of room for knots.

Thanks for that.

Trapdoor? There's the standard Babaolat one in the racquet butt if that's what you mean? Haven't prized it off, but I could play without it and see if that makes any difference.

XTO are 6 & 6 - check.
MTO are 8 - check.

Knot tails: two are free, one is up against, one is "close". Think I'll bend them away and see what happens too.

that · May 24, 2017

Did you start your crosses on the correct side? If the butt cap logo is facing up your top cross tie off should be on the right side. It could be possible that the string not sitting properly inside the grommets would make it sound strange. I would lean towards the trap door as well but it seems strange that you would get two brand new racquets with loose trap doors. Just remove it and see if the buzzing still persist. If it goes away problem solved and just put it back in firmly. You can always super glue it later.

Bespectacled · May 24, 2017

Watching this thread because I have a similar problem with my Yonex Tour F 97. I had poly at 50# first time and poly at 55#/30# now.

esgee48 · May 25, 2017

Any progress on your hunt? @Osteo UK .

Osteo UK · May 26, 2017

esgee48 said:
Any progress on your hunt? @Osteo UK .

Hi folks,

Today was my first hit since I posted so my apologies for the delay and it was no different with the knot tails folded away from the frame.

Butt cap cover is my next plan as it does come off and on, but the frame itself is buzz free no matter where I hit, it's only the string bed.

As I look at my crosses, with the Babolat logo "small to big / top to bottom" on the butt cap, the top right knot is in place. It does look as though both sides have a wide grommet though.

I wonder if there's something about my knots, as you say, two racquets can't be a coincidence, but why this frame?

One idea I'm thinking of is adding dampeners or rubber bands on the string bed in a variety of places to see if it improves. If so, it's then a process of elimination to work out which is the one.

Then I have to find the fix.

Frustrating, but interesting!

Irvin · May 27, 2017

That frame has FSI Technology which is supposed to raise the sweetspot and tighten the spaces in the upper cross strings. Not sure if that's marketing BS or not but maybe @that was on the right track when he talked about the crosses being started right. When I string one of those frames I start by preweaving some of the top crosses and always start on the right side of the frame. YES ALWAYS! I start weaving the cross that is the bottom grommet in the grommet strip then string the remaining crosses up the racket. When I'm ready to start weaving down the racket the loops on the outside of the crosses always tie the different grommet sections together. Check you racket and make sure the top and bottom grommets in each strip connect to the adjacent strip with a cross loop.

esgee48 · May 27, 2017

That was a suggestion/requirement during the dawn of the grommet age. Forgot about this since it doesn't matter with new frames. Maybe it does, again.

I did several FSI PDs without doing this and no complaints from the clients. I don't know...

Osteo UK · May 27, 2017

Irvin said:
When I string one of those frames I start by preweaving some of the top crosses and always start on the right side of the frame. YES ALWAYS! I start weaving the cross that is the bottom grommet in the grommet strip then string the remaining crosses up the racket. When I'm ready to start weaving down the racket the loops on the outside of the crosses always tie the different grommet sections together. Check you racket and make sure the top and bottom grommets in each strip connect to the adjacent strip with a cross loop.

Have the racket in front of me now. Looking up the handle, I have the Babolat logo correct way up and the start knot on the crosses is in the top right position and all of the grommet strips are "tied together".

What I HAVE noticed is this,

On the Klippermate site I use this information:
PURE DRIVE TOUR FSI 7,9B (Skip holes) 8B (Tie off mains) 7T (start crosses) 6T - 6B (Tie off Crosses)

On the Babolat site it looks like the tie offs are different:
https://sharing.oodrive.com/easyshare/fwd/link=7Qb02hqtSeDTx59G4hLv2D

Am I using the wrong grommets to tie off and it's that simple?

am1899 · May 27, 2017

The Klippermate instructions are correct.

esgee48 · May 27, 2017

The link shows instructions for the old PDR/PDT which skips 8. The FSI skips 7 and 9. So I concur with am1899.

Osteo UK · May 27, 2017

esgee48 said:
The link shows instructions for the old PDR/PDT which skips 8. The FSI skips 7 and 9. So I concur with am1899.

I checked again and the Babolat US site has it as valid from 4/13/15. Where can I find the most recent "Babolat Official" if this is incorrect?

esgee48 · May 27, 2017

I can't find anything on B's site. But this was posted on the StringForum site
https://www.stringforum.net/patterns.php (Select PD 2015)
Babolat Pure Drive 2015
Head size 645 cm²
String pattern 16x19

Uwe K., 2015-09-04 16:16:05
Main string holes H: 1-6,8,10 T: 1-6,8,10
Tie-off holes 6H,6T,8T
Start crosses 7H
Method two piece
Lengths 6.00 m (19'8") / 5.50 m (18'1")
Lengths are normal
String normal stretch

Basically agrees with KM site. Someone like @jim e could probably chime in. The main difference is the skip mains 7 and 9. Your link shows only a main skip at 8, which is the older PD pattern.

Osteo UK · May 27, 2017

esgee48 said:
I can't find anything on B's site. But this was posted on the StringForum site
https://www.stringforum.net/patterns.php (Select PD 2015)
Babolat Pure Drive 2015
Head size 645 cm²
String pattern 16x19

Uwe K., 2015-09-04 16:16:05
Main string holes H: 1-6,8,10 T: 1-6,8,10
Tie-off holes 6H,6T,8T
Start crosses 7H
Method two piece
Lengths 6.00 m (19'8") / 5.50 m (18'1")
Lengths are normal
String normal stretch

Basically agrees with KM site. Someone like @jim e could probably chime in. The main difference is the skip mains 7 and 9. Your link shows only a main skip at 8, which is the older PD pattern.

Thanks again.

So far it seems that I have the correct stringing pattern and completed it as I should. I was hoping that I had made a user error.

jim e · May 28, 2017

Babolat pure drive tour (FSI)
1 Pc length: 39'
SS:10'
2 Pc: 20'x19'
Tension:50-59 lbs.
pattern: 16x19
start M's ; T
Main skips: 7T, 9T & 7H, 9H
Tie off M's:8T
1 pc crosses:
start X: 7T
last X: 7H
tie Off:6H
2 Pc crosses;
Start X: 7H
Last X: 7T
tie Off:6H,6T

Note: Babolat recommends stringing this frame 2 piece method.
But, if 1 piece method, short side must be installed on side marked "short side" (at 5 o'clock) .
If stringing 2 piece method, starting knot must be tied at 6H on side marked short side.

This is from USRSA "Digest"
Hope this helps. Jim

MisterP · May 28, 2017

I had an issue with my Head Graphene XT Speed MP buzzing. I'm usually very careful about this, but it was a new racquet and I made a mistake. I believe it had to do with the strings getting crossed up on the outside of the frame. I restrung and made sure the strings looped properly on the outside of the frame and the buzzing went away.

Osteo UK · May 28, 2017

MisterP said:
I had an issue with my Head Graphene XT Speed MP buzzing. I'm usually very careful about this, but it was a new racquet and I made a mistake. I believe it had to do with the strings getting crossed up on the outside of the frame. I restrung and made sure the strings looped properly on the outside of the frame and the buzzing went away.

I like this thought. Is there a link with any images of "good and bad practice" as to how the strings should / should not overlap that anyone has?

Osteo UK · May 28, 2017

Played without the butt-cap on today and no different.

Am considering cutting the strings out and starting again, but I don't know what I can do any differently. Could it be the way I use the Klippermate? The way I clamp it could be too loose or too tight? The way I tie the knots?

Difficult to know what else I can do.

Imago · May 29, 2017

You can
1) remove the grommets and wash the frame.
2) Use 1-piece ATW - leave 6 lengths on the left, go incrementally to 5M and fix with the starting clamp, then continue with the right end going through the first next hole in the direction it points.

esgee48 · May 29, 2017

[1] Have you tried the string dampener yet?
[2] Did you see Jim e's Note in post #16? I don't remember doing this for the FSI PD. Probably did since I follow frame markings.
[3] If you restring, try cheap SG and see what happens?
Good luck as I am out of ideas....

Osteo UK · May 31, 2017

esgee48 said:
[1] Have you tried the string dampener yet?
[2] Did you see Jim e's Note in post #16? I don't remember doing this for the FSI PD. Probably did since I follow frame markings.
[3] If you restring, try cheap SG and see what happens?
Good luck as I am out of ideas....

Thanks for all the help, yes I use a string dampener regularly, but it makes no diffence.

But guess what? I'm pretty sure that I've solved it and will keep trying it out. Here it is then:

I was looking at the racquet head and took a step back thinking the shape looked 'slightly' rounder than I imagined it should. Bear in mind that I have used a Gamma Progression STII lockout in the past with six clamps to hold the racquet.

I place the PDT on the Klippermate and pulled the two frame clamps as far apart as possible so as to prevent any frame deformation in that plane. I restrung it (and added four extra pounds on the last strings towards the knots - normally I don't, but I was trying anything after watching a Parnell video).

And there you go, no string buzz. It seems that the clamping position with just two points were not pulled apart enough and that allowed for frame deformation (or maybe the extra poundage on the last strings, I can't be 100% sure unless I try it without).

I will let you know how the next string job goes and see how this pans out and if successful I'll edit the top post and title.

Thanks for all of your input.

esgee48 · Jun 1, 2017

So, you theorize that the shorten hoop allows the pieces of the Babolat grommet system to vibrate against each other (their tabs) and that keeping them apart with the longer hoop keeps them from doing so. This is a first. Seems like Babolat is creating problems for stringers if they do not take care to mount the frames correctly. But what the H..., they're exposing strings with narrow/shallow string channels and very fragile grommets that break really quickly. You should maybe warn @Babolat Official if your theory can be tested. At least your issue has been solved. Guess people with buzzing frames other than the PDT will have to find their own solutions.

Babolat Official · Jun 2, 2017

Hi guys, thank you so much for this invaluable information. I'll be passing along to product teams in France so that we can address the situation/find a solution. Please let us know if the problem persists. Best of luck out there!

-Sean

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