Nezir Alic
New User
Are there any D3 schools where a 3.5/4.0 player could hope to play? For example, what are some of the worst tennis universities and what does it take to get on the team?
D3 Tennis
- Thread starter Nezir Alic
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Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
A school like mt st Joseph's in Indiana which is decent in academics has a very weak lower half of the lineup.
Texas Lutheran is a power 6 of 52, defiance college is a 49
Schools with sub 50 power 6 on utr.
Nezir Alic
New User
What about like MIT or CalTech for example? Are they bad enough for me haha
Nope, Cal Tech and MIT have amped up their player quality the past several years. CalTech is a top 40 school and MIT is top 25 in D3 tennis.
CalTech has mostly 11.5-12.5 UTR players and MIT has players from 11.5-13.0 UTR. Which would equate to 5.0-5.5 (or higher).
But LOTS of D3 schools have lower level 8-9 UTR and 4.0 type players. You're obviously looking at mega academics.....state a few others you are interested in, there might be a fit.
Ihatetennis is correct in looking at Teams with power rankings of less than 55 or 54. (54/6 = 9 average UTR) & we both know a player at CalTech and also one going to MIT next year.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Very few school will let a 4.0 guy make the team, I played D3 tennis for 2 years before i transferred to another University, and I was like around 4.5-5.0, close to 5.0 level. and even then I wasn't one of their top 8 guys. I was more like one of their top 16 guys if that. I made the cut and that is all that matters. LOL
Nezir Alic
New User
Nope, Cal Tech and MIT have amped up their player quality the past several years. CalTech is a top 40 school and MIT is top 25 in D3 tennis.
CalTech has mostly 11.5-12.5 UTR players and MIT has players from 11.5-13.0 UTR. Which would equate to 5.0-5.5 (or higher).
But LOTS of D3 schools have lower level 8-9 UTR and 4.0 type players. You're obviously looking at mega academics.....state a few others you are interested in, there might be a fit.
Ihatetennis is correct in looking at Teams with power rankings of less than 55 or 54. (54/6 = 9 average UTR) & we both know a player at CalTech and also one going to MIT next year.
Thanks for the info. Can I ask what UTR is though? And can I find a team's power ranking on their website?
As for other schools I'm looking at that are in D3, here's a list:
UChicago
Johns Hopkins
Tufts
Carnegie Mellon
Brandeis
Let me know
Thanks for the info. Can I ask what UTR is though? And can I find a team's power ranking on their website?
As for other schools I'm looking at that are in D3, here's a list:
UChicago
Johns Hopkins
Tufts
Carnegie Mellon
Brandeis
Let me know
Universal Tennis Rating. Not sure if you have to be a member to get that info. $8 per month.
All the schools you mention above are top 30 D3 tennis schools. (Chi is top 5 and the others are top 15-top 30).
Which would mean 5.0 or higher to play. (maybe 5.5 or higher? not 100% sure though, I'm more familiar with UTR and the TRN national rank.)
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
Unfortunately all of those are way above your level. U Chicago recruits 5 stars-guys ranked in the top 75 in the country who could play D1 but want a highly selective academic school. The Power 6 UTRs of those schools range from 71 to 76 which means the lineups average 12+ so all the guys who play are at least 11s; we know a few high 3 stars going to one of those and a 5 star going to another. The D1 schools dont offer much in scholarships to US players so there has been a trend in recent years for many smart top players to leverage their tennis to get in the top academic and tennis-wise D3 schools. The Ivys are now getting blue chips, so the 5 stars who used to play for Ivys are choosing top D3 schools. Now you may see lower guys on the roster as D3 teams may have 15-18 players but maybe only 7-8 play. We do know an upperclassmen who was a 2 star who plays low in the lineup for one of those teams. All 3 of those guys are UTR 11-11.5. However all 3 played high level high school tennis for state playoff teams so their UTRs could be understated due to playing few USTA tourneys.Thanks for the info. Can I ask what UTR is though? And can I find a team's power ranking on their website?
As for other schools I'm looking at that are in D3, here's a list:
UChicago
Johns Hopkins
Tufts
Carnegie Mellon
Brandeis
Let me know
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
If you want a tech school, Rochester inst of Tech has a power UTR of 56. The other tech schools are much higher like Stevens is a 65;a 2 star friend was recruited there but the school was too expensive compared to other options. Maybe you should play club tennis at a highly selective academic school if you have the grades/EC to get in on your own.
Nezir Alic
New User
Ok. RIT actually happens to be one of my backup schools. How is club tennis? Is it fun and competitive, or kind of stupid? Thanks.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
The GA Tech club tennis team finished in the quarterfinals of the national tournament in Orlando. There are regional tournaments too; a girl from my son's high school played on the team.
The Tech Team has 50 members so they may have multiple teams and the best one probably went to playoffs. Players who could play D3 or lower d1 often choose to go to their state flagship universities and play club. Club is coed too which adds to the mix. The friend who was recruited to Stevens is playing club tennis instead at a flagship. I am sure the club tennis experience varies; all the players we knew who played it really liked it. Here is a link to all the tennis on campus teams.
http://www.tennisoncampus.com/CollegeClubTennisTeams.htm Some teams have facebook pages that list their officers. You could Email team leaders at school of interest to ask about the program.
Nezir Alic
New User
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
Lol....not unless you're 5.0-5.5 and top 300 in the country.
Good academic schools tend to be good tennis schools.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
Rochester is on the come up tho, even then they're in the Uaa conference. Not a lot of winning there.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
You can research the colleges on your list on Tennis Recruiting to get an idea of the number of stars you would need to have a chance to make the lineup. MIT has a 5 star from CA and a high 4 star from NJ joining the team next year.
tennisbuck
Hall of Fame
Rose Hulman maybe?
Doubles
Legend
I played a guy in 4.0 that just finished his career for Defiance College. I rolled him easily excluding their number 1 singles player (who just graduate) most aren't that good. Definitely a school you could play at if you're okay with how boring the town is.
Doubles
Legend
From my own experience it's fun when you go to a big school that has a decent sized team and plenty of competitive (4.5+) players. I wouldn't recommend playing club at a D3 school, assuming they even have one, because in my experience the D3 schools we've played have been utterly awful
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
They're 65 utr
They're line up consists of 3 star guys playing 3 singles and 4 singles and a 2 star at 6 singles.
About 15 utr higher than what he should look for lol
randomcollegeplayer
New User
As others have already said, all of the schools you have listed are filthy good. I'm not sure they would let a 3.5 even touch their courts.
Funny that someone above mentioned UPS in Tacoma. If you are looking for a garbage team, that might be worth a shot.
Funny that someone above mentioned UPS in Tacoma. If you are looking for a garbage team, that might be worth a shot.
Doubles
Legend
I'd seriously consider just going to club route. The fact that it's coed is unquestionably the best part of it.Sounds good except for the coed part. Thanks for all the information!
I have experience firsthand with Texas Lutheran as I used to live just up the road in New Braunfels and have watched them (men and women) play on a number of occasions. The best player on the men's squad would probably be a mid level 4.5. Also, it's in Seguin, Texas which is not really that exciting a town, but New Braunfels (where John Newcombe's Tennis Ranch/Academy is located) is an upcoming outer burb of San Antonio. I'm not sure what it takes to get on the team TLU but I would think expressing sincere interest/commitment to the school and the program would at least get you a roster spot.
Also, you're about 30 minutes from downtown San Antonio where another MUCH BETTER D3 program is located in Trinity University. The lowest guy on that team might be a mid level 4.0 with the top guy being a strong 5.5 to 6.0.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
The lowest guy at trinity is a 10 utr 5.0 guy
Lol no one gets on trinities team without being at minimum a 2 star. -a guy who's played their commits and players his entire life
That might be the current guys rating or whatever it relates to but having watched a number of Trinity matches over the years firsthand I can tell you that some player's skill set didn't translate to up to a 5.0.
ReopeningWed
Professional
I know MIT has some players that are five star recruits, one of which should have been a blue chip because he won three sectional tournaments back to back the summer that he graduated from high school.
Some schools are strong, some are weak.
Some schools are strong, some are weak.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
Which guys? Their lowest lineup players wouldn't lose a 4.5 match and they've had all Americans in d3 for 15 years.
Trinity has guys that could easily have gone d1.
atatu
Legend
Agree, they don't have any guys on their roster who are close to 4.0, one of their recruits from last year (Pitts) could have easily played D1.
First, no one is debating whether there are guys on Trinity's roster that could play D1. That discussion has been had hear on TT ad nauseam and the general consensus is that there are a number of D3 programs that can compete with and win against some D1/D2 programs. By that token, there has to be D3 players that are fully capable of playing D1 ball. Emory U. in the Atlanta area is one of those schools that falls into that category as well. To go even further, there are NAIA programs (Georgia Gwinnett Grizzlies and Xavier U. (LA) to name just a couple) that are just as capable.
My point is that over the years I have seen with my own eyes guys after watching enough Trinity matches (7 years worth), both dual and tournament, that there will be guys on the roster at any given point in time whose skills would amount to that of a strong 4.0. Your statement alludes to some notion that every guy in every class that has ever gone through Trinity is at least a 5.0 skill-wise. From what I've seen over my time watching their matches, there's been at least a couple that do not fit that 5.0 mark. Maybe..it was off day..who knows....
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He's talking current roster. I'm talking about several years worth of players. And maybe that's where this is getting lost as I'm not talking about just the current roster but the span of the teams that I've seen over the years.
Not necessarily out of date but I should have prefaced my comment with a statement such as "Over the last seven years, the lowest guy on that team that I have seen might be....". While Trinity may be fielding 5.0s consistely, a rare 4.0 could turn up on the roster for one reason or another. Given that Trinity has a history of being very good tennis school, whether it's 10 years ago or now, it's still relevant.
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Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
More than likely off days??? But no one in the last 5-6 years has been below 5.0.
2011, only guy on tennis recruiting who was not a 2 star level minimum.
Thomas Knight. The rest of the guys have been 2-4(even 5) star level.
That's going through all their recruits. Highly unlikely that they've had a 4.0 player in the last 10 years since they started coming on the scene around that time.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
I have a D3 question unrelated to OP's questions but rather than start a new thread, I will ask here. Has anyone noticed that certain top D3 schools playoff results are missing from UTR? It is not a UTR issue as the results are not entered on ITA. Maybe the coach thought the asst was inputting or vice versa. The top D3 guys are probably already underrated compared to some D1 players. Some summer tournaments are seeded based on UTR, and if top D3 players are missing 4-5 playoff results that could affect their selection or seeding. I discovered this by accident as my son was playing a D3 player who'd been in the playoffs, we looked up his UTR and saw no results after April.
If anyone who currently plays D3 is reading this, I hope you will play summer tournaments that include D1 players. Most of D3 is probably rated correctly, but for the top players, it could be understated. The easiest way to adjust those ratings upwards is for those D3 players to play Future Qualis or men's opens over the summer that have D1 players or pros in the draw. Last summer one of the top D3 players crushed some D1 players from two top 40 D1 teams and had a competitive match with the ranked 1S of one of the teams. If any top D3 players want to play a future quali, just get your ipin and register at least 3-4 weeks in advance. The alternate list may seem daunting at first, but most players who want to play and show up at sign in get in. Unfortunately after players who have ATP points and players on national lists are selected, the remaining players are randomly ordered. Sometimes 2 or 3 star juniors get in 2 weeks in a row and win rounds at both as they actually get a UTR 10 opponent in the first round; however those guys tend to get 2 or less games in the 2nd round when they play UTR 13s/14s. Too bad the Future alternates are not sorted by UTR as I know a 13+ player who drove up to a Future that did not get in while some 39 year old player got in who has played 3 in a row and never got more than 2 games in a first round. For those D3 players UTR 11.5 or less, the summer circuit showcases or UTR events might also bring up your UTR.
To improve US tennis, as much as possible US players need to be playing tournaments over the summer regardless of division. Now that so many talented US players are choosing D3, there needs to be a lot more d1/d3 crossplay. Coaches may not schedule those matches during the year, so players may have to find their own crossplay during the summer.
If anyone who currently plays D3 is reading this, I hope you will play summer tournaments that include D1 players. Most of D3 is probably rated correctly, but for the top players, it could be understated. The easiest way to adjust those ratings upwards is for those D3 players to play Future Qualis or men's opens over the summer that have D1 players or pros in the draw. Last summer one of the top D3 players crushed some D1 players from two top 40 D1 teams and had a competitive match with the ranked 1S of one of the teams. If any top D3 players want to play a future quali, just get your ipin and register at least 3-4 weeks in advance. The alternate list may seem daunting at first, but most players who want to play and show up at sign in get in. Unfortunately after players who have ATP points and players on national lists are selected, the remaining players are randomly ordered. Sometimes 2 or 3 star juniors get in 2 weeks in a row and win rounds at both as they actually get a UTR 10 opponent in the first round; however those guys tend to get 2 or less games in the 2nd round when they play UTR 13s/14s. Too bad the Future alternates are not sorted by UTR as I know a 13+ player who drove up to a Future that did not get in while some 39 year old player got in who has played 3 in a row and never got more than 2 games in a first round. For those D3 players UTR 11.5 or less, the summer circuit showcases or UTR events might also bring up your UTR.
To improve US tennis, as much as possible US players need to be playing tournaments over the summer regardless of division. Now that so many talented US players are choosing D3, there needs to be a lot more d1/d3 crossplay. Coaches may not schedule those matches during the year, so players may have to find their own crossplay during the summer.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
For op at a 3.4-4.0 level. The only reason to bring him on the team would be to raise gpa. No one on that team will get any use practicing with him, and he won't get any help getting blasted off court by them.
It's not fun being head and shoulders below the rest of the team in terms of skill.
I would look at schools within his fit, where he is average or just below average.
I assume your daughter is not planning a pro career. She should select the best academic school she feels comfortable with. If she can play tennis good. If she graduates and has a good career in a field she loves great. Both of my children went to top 5 academic colleges that played D3 tennis. My son played 4 years, my daughter played 2. He a math major her a Mol Bi/Bi chem major. Her labs got in the way, He is a Phd, she and MD. I consider them to have won the game
Trinity has been on the tennis scene more than just 10 years ago. And yeah..even if the 4.0 is just there to boost gpa, he's still on the roster. It doesn't change the fact that it does happen.
NortheastTennis
New User
I used to play small D1 college in New England and still compete on the Mens Open Circuit. Over the winter I played a men`s open tournament and played against Bates number one who is a 12.92 UTR (considered top 30 in d3) while I am at 12.7 UTR. I won 6-7 6-2 6-0 and besides a slow start really felt his UTR overrated him. I think besides the top 4 or 5 guys, the rest of the D3 number ones are still fairly below D1 level. This is just anecdotal story but I have played multiple current and former D3 players in tournaments and rarely am challenged vs being challenged more regularly by juniors or D1 players. The only exception was when I saw D3 number one Lubomir Cuba who is the real deal
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
UTRs within .5 are definitely approximate so it makes sense that you could beat someone rated .22 ahead of you. Last summer Rafe Mosetick who had just finished his eligibility at Emory smoked some ACC players and lost 4,4 vs Eubanks who is one of the top D1 players. I think he won a 64 draw open that had players from SEC/ACC conferences. We know several 5 star juniors who will play D3 next year who will continue the upward trend for D3. Right now there are about a dozen D3 players ranked above UTR 13. That number will probably double or triple over the next 4 years as 5 star smart players who used to aim for the Ivys now gravitate towards D3s. For the Power D1 teams, UTR 13 or 13.5 for top 30 teams is the bottom of the lineup. Based on UTR, it would seem the top D3 players would struggle to play 4-6 on a power team, but I have seen some close matches between D1 and D3 players. However, it is harder for D3 players to get in Futures. There are tournaments that get players points for the USTA top 500 national list which is used to rank players for Future Qualifiers after the guys with ATP points. There are more tournament points to get on the list available for D1 play vs D3; it is also easier for juniors to get on the list for doing well at high level nationals and ITFs. The deck is a little stacked against D3 players for those who were talented enough to play D1 but chose D3 so they could major in premed, sciences, etc. Summer is a good opportunity for them to play the highest level of tennis without affecting their studies.
That's great you still play. If more players kept playing after college at opens, local UTR events, etc, there would be more adults for juniors to play close to home keeping the sport cheaper and hopefully improving their game.
Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
In my experience, many of the D3 players don't have time to play tournaments over the summer because they have summer internships, often away from home which makes it difficult to keep up with their tennis. All of the players on my college son's D3 tennis team have internships over the summer, and I doubt many of them will be able to find a hitting partner at their level even if they did have the opportunity to play.
One of the determining factors with my high school class of 2017 son choosing D3 over D1 was that a number of D1 coaches told him that they did not want their players getting summer internships and wanted them playing tennis tournaments instead. My son wants to get summer internships so he has the opportunity to try out various career paths within his major and feels that summers are an ideal time to do that.
One of the determining factors with my high school class of 2017 son choosing D3 over D1 was that a number of D1 coaches told him that they did not want their players getting summer internships and wanted them playing tennis tournaments instead. My son wants to get summer internships so he has the opportunity to try out various career paths within his major and feels that summers are an ideal time to do that.
Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
Yes, I have noticed this as well. The results from the D3 National Individual tournament are also missing from UTR.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
youre probably in better shape too, d3 guys tend to be less conditioned than their d1 counterparts, but keep in mind that 12.92 is more than likely a talent based utr. imagine that with a d1 schedule and competition. I also know a guy at bates who played in texas. He was top 10 in texas in every age group i believe, hes going to be a sophomore but he could have and was offered d1 spots.
Matthew Lee
Professional
Is CMS a good D3 school for tennis? My coach graduated there last year and he wrecks me every time I play him...
Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
CMS is one of the top teams in D3 - they finished 2nd this year in the NCAA rankings, losing to Emory in the D3 National Championship. They have a Power Rating of 77, with individual player UTR's ranging from 13.33 - 12.49. Their Power Rating is higher than many of the Power Ratings of D1 Mid-Major schools.
Mrs.Weasley
Rookie
To learn more about D3 tennis, especially on the men's side, check out the blog at division3tennis dot com. The blog is fantastic (although I don't agree with some of the blogger comments regarding one school in particular
) and a great source of entertainment for D3 fans and great source of information for those juniors thinking about playing D3.
Matthew Lee
Professional
Thank you!
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