Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Almost any accomplished player with a 1HBH has a huge forehand. There is a reason for that.
4.5 player looking to get to the next level.
- Thread starter tofast4u05
- Start date
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
I follow you on YT so always enjoy watching and learning from thing you do. It was interesting to watch the match because in much of your previous video practice and such, you always do well do balance or move forward into your strokes (I used you as a template for a stroke comparison of mine a while back because I have a similar stroke path on my forehand), but in this I noticed you weren't or didn't get a chance to step in as much. As you mention, you were defensive so much of the match. Obviously not a detrimental effect on the match overall, but one observation. All good and hope to see more Rob.
Edit to add my point, which was that was one area I think you really improved from a few years back, which is, shot tolerance (helped for this match a lot), penetration into strokes and power.
tofast4u05
Rookie
His forehand is monster. It's so fun to battle against it forehand to forehand.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Nice play. Seems like both of you have better forehands than serves? Is it just the video?
J
norcal
Legend
Good stuff. You have a very well rounded game while he is looking forehand all the time (and has the footwork to pull it off).
What were you doing slumming on the public courts? Maybe you were defensive because of the rif raff that hangs out there lol.
J/K you are hitting really well and you'll do well this year in the 5.0's.
What were you doing slumming on the public courts? Maybe you were defensive because of the rif raff that hangs out there lol.
J/K you are hitting really well and you'll do well this year in the 5.0's.
tofast4u05
Rookie
Haha. Yeah I haven't hit at those public courts for a while and it was during the early day so it wasn't crowded. I like that they have so much space to play deep. Helps when I am facing big servers or big hitters.
tofast4u05
Rookie
We both struggled serving that day. I haven't been going for my first serve lately which is a bad habit. I've just been spinning them in.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
@tofast4u05 , is that RF97A you're playing with?
tofast4u05
Rookie
It's the 97LS
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Myth busted. You can be a good player with a light racket!
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Do you have a video from 2015, when you first started this thread?
It would be fun to compare your progress.
It would be fun to compare your progress.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
3 great high ball returns at :45, :47, and :50
This is what I mean by perpetual moonball rally.
3.5 spazz would bash this into the netFence.
What did he do wrong with his 3.5 looking volley at :56 ?
HOOKING at 1:35!
Great defensive lob at 1:47
3.5 spazz would bash this into the netFence.
Sweatpant guy does not move body weight forward in his serve.
He falls backwards. This looks like 3.5
2:20 great defensive reply
Great point in general!
This is what I mean by perpetual moonball rally.
3.5 spazz would bash this into the netFence.
What did he do wrong with his 3.5 looking volley at :56 ?
HOOKING at 1:35!
Great defensive lob at 1:47
3.5 spazz would bash this into the netFence.
Sweatpant guy does not move body weight forward in his serve.
He falls backwards. This looks like 3.5
2:20 great defensive reply
Great point in general!
tofast4u05
Rookie
MisterP
Hall of Fame
Lots of buggy whip in this video. Some buggy whip is ok. But don't need it on cross court rally balls on every shot. Might have been a footwork related issue.
You hit thru it on the forehand much better in the more recent vid you posted.
tofast4u05
Rookie
We back from the dead. Man it's been a solid 6 years since I made this thread and recording video. It's crazy to see my first videos to current. I highly recommend anyone to record themselves to see how you actually hit and move so you can improve. If anyone is in Sacramento area and wants to play practice matches/record let me know. I'm trying to get back into recording. Also, is anyone familiar with Swingvision? Want to know if it's easy to use and accurate.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Impressive robotic rally consistency. I see you are up to 4.39 on TR. You are almost to your goal!
jdawgg
Semi-Pro
Easy to use? Yes. Accurate? Definitely not.
Man you guys are smoking the ball in that video, very clean. A bit far from the baseline for my liking but looks great man.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Nice. To my eyes, you seem more relaxed in your swing and follow-through than in years past. Same coach?
If you ever return to the southland, let me know and we'll try to set up another hit.
tofast4u05
Rookie
Of course anytime I get down there I'm always down to play. Same coach still. Basically didn't play any competition or even play much since Covid hit in early 2020. Had ruptured disks that kept me out. But feeling better now and looking to get out more.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Ouch. I hope everything's OK with the spine now.
Moon Shooter
Hall of Fame
I watched your volleys in slow motion and appreciated your split steps. It's something I am sort of working on but I have found it is not really something I can force. I just try to make sure I recenter my balance when my opponent hits even if I feel out of position and try to keep a wide stance on my toes and a bounce in my step.
tofast4u05
Rookie
Honestly for me there's really no # I can say. It just depends on the type of ball I get and how confident I feel.
At 2:11 my forehand is probably 90%. Other than that I usually hit around 60-70% power on both wings. No real reason for me to hit as hard as I can because it's too risky and you lose control.
"
tofast4u05
Rookie
I still have some issues but most days are good.
tofast4u05
Rookie
A good footwork drill that helps wake up my feet is up and down each foot on the service line for like 30 seconds. Don't know what it's called but definitely helps me out.
Moon Shooter
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure what you are describing.
tofast4u05
Rookie
Tennis Footwork - 5 Drills To Improve Your Footwork and Movement - YouTube
The drill at 6:21 in the video.
Sorry, 5.0s would destroy these balls. They give so much time to hit them back. Even I could blast it back during a match for at least a set.
Not saying one way is wrong or anything. Some people loop it high so it's harder to time during a match.
But that's why I'm not 5.0 Usually if you give the opponent time, then you've already lost the point at 5.0+ level.
Just imagine 2 ppl cutting each other's recovery times. What would it do to their legs during the point
tofast4u05
Rookie
I'm not really understanding your post. We're certainly not hitting a slow ball and disagree that it would get destroyed.Sorry, 5.0s would destroy these balls. They give so much time to hit them back. Even I could blast it back during a match for at least a set.
Not saying one way is wrong or anything. Some people loop it high so it's harder to time during a match.
But that's why I'm not 5.0 Usually if you give the opponent time, then you've already lost the point at 5.0+ level.
Just imagine 2 ppl cutting each other's recovery times. What would it do to their legs during the point
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
- 5.0 still spans quite a range - I've managed to stay somewhat close to a low 5.0 [lost 3/3] but would get clobbered by most others.
- Video makes everything look slower; it's a different matter when one is on the court
- Did you miss the part about ruptured disks and taking much of 2020 off due to Covid?
jdawgg
Semi-Pro
Sorry, 5.0s would destroy these balls. They give so much time to hit them back. Even I could blast it back during a match for at least a set.
Not saying one way is wrong or anything. Some people loop it high so it's harder to time during a match.
But that's why I'm not 5.0 Usually if you give the opponent time, then you've already lost the point at 5.0+ level.
Just imagine 2 ppl cutting each other's recovery times. What would it do to their legs during the point
So many lower level players don't have an accurate understanding of higher level rec tennis (AKA NTRP 5.0). This is a prime example of that.
They think that NTRP 5.0 is this magical land where every shot is a winner and every shot is monster huge. The reality is, that's what it feels like in person for these low level players, so when they go to watch video of actual players at that level they're dumbfounded. They don't understand the difference between being on the court and watching video of it. Maybe it's a lack of actually seeing video of themselves?
As someone who frequently plays 5.0 and wins against mid 5.0s in singles -- this guy is hitting rock solid shots, 5.0s would not destroy these balls.
Many players claim to be 5.0s, but only a few really are.
Here's some real 5.0s. Real power tennis. I witnessed him bagel another guy who's 5.0
They both played 5.0 league matches.
You cannot win high level matches without power. Even Santoro has power. His racket's like 15oz.
You both already think you're so good. Sigh.
Just look at how you're supposed to rally at 5.0+level
Some other 5.0s posted here too. Looks similar.
Last edited:
So, the guy that got bageled was also a 5.0.
This is the most valid point one can make. We recorded a hitting session recently and my hitting partner's first comment was 'man the ball seems so much faster in person'
gsung
New User
The guy in the videos Andrey Smirnov is a high-11 UTR, which would be nationals-level NTRP 5.0. Definitely not representative of the average NTRP 5.0 player.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Here's one way to practice: watch a video of pros warming up [ie hitting more slowly than during a match or intense practice] and time your split step with the near-court person.
Do this for a few minutes every day and after a while, you won't have to think about it anymore.
The next level would be to add shadow swings.
Here's a video you can use for reference [there are hundreds out there]:
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
If you're referring to @jdawgg's post about playing against plenty of 5.0s, I believe he was talking about opponents where their NTRP was known [as opposed to a random park encounter with a guy claiming to be 5.0].
Are the players in your videos representative of the entire range of 5.0? Doesn't seem like it. There are plenty of 5.0s that do not hit with that sort of power.
Power is a weapon but it's not the only weapon.
Where did I imply that I'm "so good"? I even specifically wrote how I'm not good relative to 5.0 [I'm a mid-4.5]:
"I've managed to stay somewhat close to a low 5.0 [lost 3/3] but would get clobbered by most others."
I've played against 5.0s [maybe 10] and only a couple of them flat-out overpowered me [and @tofast4u05 has better GSs than I].
You have a narrow view of what a 5.0 looks like so anyone who doesn't fit your model must not be a 5.0.
Find a few opponents who are at the bottom of 5.0 and see if they destroy your GSs. I'm betting they won't.
jdawgg
Semi-Pro
I like how you snuck in 5.0+ level. Moving the goalposts now are we? I am strictly speaking about the 5.0 level, lets stick with your original argument: " Sorry, 5.0s would destroy these balls ".
Firstly, you have managed to show videos of an NTRP 5.5 player (funny enough he's from my area and I frequently watch his videos). Even in the first video he's playing Madhav Binu, who would be NTRP 5.0 based on his UTR, but he's far from your typical 5.0. You see he is a top ranked 13 year old. Andrey says in his videos that Madhav's groundstrokes are easily UTR 10+. Madhav will move past the NTRP 5.0 level quite quickly, his game is developing at a rapid pace.
Your 3rd video shows a 5.5 playing a 6.0 player. Shows how clueless you are. You've managed to show what real NTRP 5.5+ players look like, not NTRP 5.0.
Funny how you're trying to tell me what the 5.0 level is when I played at that level for 5 years. I just played at 4.5 nationals and went 3-0, I'll likely be joining the 5.0 ranks again next year. Most of my practice partners are NTRP 5.0 singles players. I literally beat a UTR 10 this year in a UTR tournament who had a 70-80% win rate in local NTRP 5.0 play.
I watched PNW NTRP 5.0 Sectionals just this year. The top guy from our section is UTR 10 and while his serve can be pretty massive, he's not hitting winners every point against typical 5.0s, I saw a lot of long rallies. He's an ex DIII All American and wouldn't crack the lineup on a lot of D1 programs.
So, in summary, what you believe to be a typical NTRP 5.0 player based on videos you've watched is actually NTRP 5.5. You have a warped perception based on not understanding the gradients of the higher levels due to no experience at those levels. I used to practice quite a bit with a player at that level who could hit forehand winners from anywhere on the court against me. He also beat NTRP 5.0s 6-0, 6-0 typically.
Stratotanker
Semi-Pro
I'd totally agree here. Big difference between 5.0 and 5.0+. Because there aren't really any common events or leagues past the 5.0 level, there are often huge steps in tennis ability lumped into the normal 5.0 group. And if we're talking about a gap of 2-3 points in UTR...they're barely playing the same sport.
Remember that there are a lot of people that say MEP isn’t a 4.5 also. His results speak otherwise and playing in the Atlanta area isn’t a cakewalk of opponents either.
I never understand why everyone has a model for each level. Ive seen guys around here (Atlanta area) win based on mental toughness alone at all levels, not stroke production. I’ve also seen guys that blast the ball in rally’s and warmups lose bc they can’t keep the strokes up when points are on the line.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly. I was thinking of another TT user who posted almost the same thing about MEP [even using the word "real", as in "he's not a real 4.5"].
It's called a heuristic: a mental shortcut that allows us to not have to waste a lot of energy thinking. If someone looks like they play with skillset A, they must be level X. If they have skillset B, they are level Y.
The problem is that heuristics aren't totally accurate: the more general my model, the more likely my heuristic is wrong.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
I think this is the main thing that everyone struggles with. The higher someone is up the tree, the fewer people there are and so the greater amount of variance you see between individuals - but also the further they are from your own experience, so the harder it is to see the differences (they are just lumped into one big group of 'people way better than me')
I suspect if you showed a match between two players ranked ~1000, then another match two players ranked ~100, without recognising the individuals a lot of people on this forum would be unable to tell which was which
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
^This. The reason is that people confuse the relative skill difference themselves and 2 other much better players with the relative skill difference between the 2 other much better players.
The #100 should crush the #1000 but both would crush me so easily that I wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
Well, did you get good?
tofast4u05
Rookie
Good question. I don't know.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
Just saw your latest upload and it appears that you did
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
@tofast4u05 Could swaer you played Matt or Tim before at 4.5? Tim was bumped to 5.0 I think last year. Matt is a solid 4.5 and we could always grab @J011yroger in as a 5.0 as well for @jz000 to Have reference for 'real' 4.5/5.0 "looking" play.
For better reference, here is the USTA 5.0 Nationals I watched at our Surprise AZ facility.
Anyway, back to the threads vids. Cheers.
For better reference, here is the USTA 5.0 Nationals I watched at our Surprise AZ facility.
Anyway, back to the threads vids. Cheers.
tofast4u05
Rookie
No didn't play Matt or Tim. I was in contact with Tim to setup but schedules didn't workout. I think it would be a good match to film with either.
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