Rafa on AO conditions: "I like little bit faster ball than this one."

weakera

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
“The ball is big. With colder conditions, especially during the night, the ball is bigger,” Nadal said.
“Yes, the ball is going a little bit more slow, no? Not that high bounces that sometimes we used to have here.
“But the ball is what there is. Is fair enough. Is a good quality ball. I can't complain about the ball.
“Personally if you ask me, I like little bit faster ball than this one
“But I can't say is a bad ball because is a good ball. I feel is a fair ball for everyone.”
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...Australian-Open-balls-Dan-Evans-Matthew-Ebden

Once again, thank you Rafa for pointing out what so few understand. Rafa enjoys fast conditions, it's the bounce that is more important.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Nadal's comments about conditions are always geared towards putting him in disadvantageous position depending on who he considers his main opponent for the title (whining).

In this case it is Djokovic over who Nadal feels that he has advantage in the power department, so, Nadal is saying that in faster conditions he will have the upper hand in rallies, with which I agree.

Why can't this guy own his status of an ATG?

:cool:
 
Last edited:
weakera

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Tennis_Hands said:
Nadal's comments about conditions are always geared to putting him in disadvantageous position depending who he considers his main opponent for the title (whining).

In this case it is Djokovic over who Nadal feels that he has advantage in the power department, so, Nadal is saying that in faster conditions he will have the upper hand in rallies, with which I agree.

Why can't this guy own his status of an ATG?

:cool:
Click to expand...

Incorrect.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Disgusting AO favouritism to appease the Fraud, no?

It wasn't enough when RG used faster balls in 2011 to help the evil incarnate against Djokodal owning him, now AO switched to heavier balls that disrupt Djokodal's finesse but aid pathetic servebotting by the fraudulent one.

How unfair of Fred to benefit from making the ball either lighter or heavier, indeed!
 
DSH

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
the only important thing is how you play in that day, the rest, although important, is not decisive.
 
TearTheRoofOff

TearTheRoofOff

G.O.A.T.
To my mind, the speed of the court is at least somewhat correlated to the bounce, though there will be exceptions. A faster court typically causes the ball to skid through more, with a lower bounce. Perhaps the conditions Rafa is pining for is whereby the ball flies through the air faster, but the surface itself is slow with a higher bounce. I still think on aggregate he has been more dominant and successful when conditions are generally slower all round. Think Monte Carlo vs Madrid, for example.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Nadal wants that extra spin. He can't put as much action on that ball and get that height he likes. I thought the ball looked flatter than the other one but Nadal confirms it.
 
TennisFan3

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Hitman said:
Rafa enjoys fast conditions....yet has won the bulk of his trophies on the slowest surface on tour.
Click to expand...

It's not as simple as fast or slow for Rafa, Hitman. It's about whether the surface takes his spin well and the ball bounces up. Nadal's entire game is based on trying to use spin to create angles that yank his opponents sideways or pushes them back. He doesn't hit a flat ball (like say a Delpo) which can penetrate the surface, another reason he has fewer winners than top players.

Clay is slow, but Nadal still gets a lot of purchase with his forehand since clay takes his spin very well along with bounce in sunny conditions. The PC at the AO, OTOH, does not take Nadal's spin very well. His ball sits up and he has to defend a lot. He tries to compensate by looping the ball (higher net clearance), but that again plays into his opponents hands. Ditto for a surface like WTF, where Nadal's forehand doesn't penetrate court at all.

Contrast this to the UsOpen, where the DecoTurf is probably slower than the AO. It still takes Nadal's spin well. He can push his opponents on defense there with the bounce and the action on the court with his top spin.

Even though Nadal is more defense oriented than Fed or Djoko, he still has success when he defends less and attacks more. In many ways, he is very offensive on clay with the bounce and spin he gets. Similarly, when he's won in the UsOpen, he's been dictating play with his forehand. The trouble he has at the AO is that the court surface doesn't suit his game and he does a lot of defending and running. No wonder, he's been injured here at least 3-4 times in big matches.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
TennisFan3 said:
It's not as simple as fast or slow for Rafa, Hitman. It's about whether the surface takes his spin well and the ball bounces up. Nadal's entire game is based on trying to use spin to create angles that yank his opponents sideways or pushes them back. He doesn't hit a flat ball (like say a Delpo) which can penetrate the surface, another reason he has fewer winners than top players.

Clay is slow, but Nadal still gets a lot of purchase with his forehand since clay takes his spin very well along with bounce in sunny conditions. The PC at the AO, OTOH, does not take Nadal's spin very well. His ball sits up and he has to defend a lot. He tries to compensate by looping the ball (higher net clearance), but that again plays into his opponents hands. Ditto for a surface like WTF, where Nadal's forehand doesn't penetrate court at all.

Contrast this to the UsOpen, where the DecoTurf is probably slower than the AO. It still takes Nadal's spin well. He can push his opponents on defense there with the bounce and the action on the court with his top spin.

Even though Nadal is more defense oriented than Fed or Djoko, he still has success when he defends less and attacks more. In many ways, he is very offensive on clay with the bounce and spin he gets. Similarly, when he's won in the UsOpen, he's been dictating play with his forehand. The trouble he has at the AO is that the court surface doesn't suit his game and he does a lot of defending and running. No wonder, he's been injured here at least 3-4 times in big matches.
Click to expand...

Good post, but I was trolling. :D
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Sysyphus said:
Dead balls take less spin and rafaello likes spin -- more at 11.
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"Welcome to the 11 o'clock news, with tonights items

- Nadal does not plan to skip clay to improve chances at Wimbledon
- Kyrgios rolled eyes during press conference
- Dimitrov picks hard way rather than easy way
- All Dutch players go out in singles before R3
- Biggest American talent, is literally biggest
- Nadal and Federer still in the tournament, court speed is unclear"
 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
TennisFan3 said:
It's not as simple as fast or slow for Rafa, Hitman. It's about whether the surface takes his spin well and the ball bounces up. Nadal's entire game is based on trying to use spin to create angles that yank his opponents sideways or pushes them back. He doesn't hit a flat ball (like say a Delpo) which can penetrate the surface, another reason he has fewer winners than top players.

Clay is slow, but Nadal still gets a lot of purchase with his forehand since clay takes his spin very well along with bounce in sunny conditions. The PC at the AO, OTOH, does not take Nadal's spin very well. His ball sits up and he has to defend a lot. He tries to compensate by looping the ball (higher net clearance), but that again plays into his opponents hands. Ditto for a surface like WTF, where Nadal's forehand doesn't penetrate court at all.

Contrast this to the UsOpen, where the DecoTurf is probably slower than the AO. It still takes Nadal's spin well. He can push his opponents on defense there with the bounce and the action on the court with his top spin.

Even though Nadal is more defense oriented than Fed or Djoko, he still has success when he defends less and attacks more. In many ways, he is very offensive on clay with the bounce and spin he gets. Similarly, when he's won in the UsOpen, he's been dictating play with his forehand. The trouble he has at the AO is that the court surface doesn't suit his game and he does a lot of defending and running. No wonder, he's been injured here at least 3-4 times in big matches.
Click to expand...

excellent analysis. He also has other skills that suit clay versus other surfaces, it's not just that clay is the slowert surface that helps Rafa
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Seriously, he used the word "ball" in all but one sentence.

You disappoint me, Rafa. How could you miss that one sentence?
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Red Rick said:
Speed doesn't matter too much for Rafa, and it's all about that bounce.

Miami is the deadest, slowest HC on Tour and Nadal never won it.
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Technically if you want to make that statement then the same can be said for Federer and Djokovic, who have shown they are fully capable of winning on fast and slow surface, they also just need the right bounce.

Take a look at Federer at Cincinnati - fast low bouncing, then take a look at Federer at WTF and Hamburg - slow low bouncing.
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Hitman said:
Technically if you want to make that statement then the same can be said for Federer and Djokovic, who have shown they are fully capable of winning on fast and slow surface, they also just need the right bounce.

Take a look at Federer at Cincinnati - fast low bouncing, then take a look at Federer at WTF and Hamburg - slow low bouncing.
Click to expand...
It does. Goes for just about every player. I think that in general a two dimensional model would suit a lot better than a one dimensional one.
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
Rafa enjoys fast conditions....yet has won the bulk of his trophies on the slowest surface on tour.
Click to expand...
As I've tried to point out numerous times, Nadal likes time, and the amount of time players have to react to shots is relative to bounce, not speed. The higher the bounce, the more Nadal can dominate, and the grittier the court, the more his shots jump up high. Everything else is pretty much inconsequential to Nadal. That's also why he thrives in hot conditions.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Gary Duane said:
As I've tried to point out numerous times, Nadal likes time, and the amount of time players have to react to shots is relative to bounce, not speed. The higher the bounce, the more Nadal can dominate, and the grittier the court, the more his shots jump up high. Everything else is pretty much inconsequential to Nadal. That's also why he thrives in hot conditions.
Click to expand...

Fully agree.
 
D

Deleted member 763691

Guest
McEnroe said the surface is slower this year than the last 2 years:)
probably meant the conditions including the balls.
 
DSH

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Gary Duane said:
As I've tried to point out numerous times, Nadal likes time, and the amount of time players have to react to shots is relative to bounce, not speed. The higher the bounce, the more Nadal can dominate, and the grittier the court, the more his shots jump up high. Everything else is pretty much inconsequential to Nadal. That's also why he thrives in hot conditions.
Click to expand...

Why do you think that the surface of the Australian open, plexicushion, has caused him so many abandonments or withdrawals over time, unlike the decotourf of the US open?
 
Gary Duane

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Heidi4tennis said:
McEnroe said the surface is slower this year than the last 2 years:)
probably meant the conditions including the balls.
Click to expand...
Actually, at the time he said that he had not yet played on the courts, saying it was too busy in the first couple days. Someone else said that by the second week the courts would be faster. I'd prefer some facts. and we seldom get them, just a lot of "it seems to me". ;)
 
D

Demented

Semi-Pro
Temperature and humidity effect ball bounce height the most, I don't find surface that important(I have har-tru, plexi-cushion, and traditional hard court all right next to each other at my club). Temperature effects the air pressure in the ball and humidity effects the spin RPM. Court surface effects the amount of the RPM that is converted into forward movement on impact(like a tire peeling out on asphalt vs concrete vs dirt). At Nadal's level of clearance/spin, the ball has converted nearly all of its forward momentum into downward momentum via topspin. I'm sure if the camera angle existed, you could see his ball traveling downward to the court surface with very little forward drift right before impact. Instead of bouncing straight back upwards like a lob, the ball expends rotational energy on impact and accelerates forward based on the amount of grip available. On gritty surfaces the ball can pop forward pretty quickly but not so much on carpet/smooth concrete.
 
D

Deleted member 763691

Guest
Gary Duane said:
Actually, at the time he said that he had not yet played on the courts, saying it was too busy in the first couple days. Someone else said that by the second week the courts would be faster. I'd prefer some facts. and we seldom get them, just a lot of "it seems to me". ;)
Click to expand...
McEnroe said during the 3rd Set of last night's Nadal-Ebden match that the surface is slower now than the last 2 years:)
 
bjk

bjk

Hall of Fame
Gary Duane said:
As I've tried to point out numerous times, Nadal likes time, and the amount of time players have to react to shots is relative to bounce, not speed. The higher the bounce, the more Nadal can dominate, and the grittier the court, the more his shots jump up high. Everything else is pretty much inconsequential to Nadal. That's also why he thrives in hot conditions.
Click to expand...
Watch the highlights of Raonic Nadal at IW.
 
Enga

Enga

Hall of Fame
My personal feeling has always been that he likes high bounce, regardless of court speed. Especially since the finals of RG tend to be a dry clay surface in the sun, which is the conditions which play fastest on clay I think, at least in my experience. Hot dry clay is fast but high bouncing, and low skidding with slices. Can get pretty unpredictable bounces too.
 
S

smash hit

Professional
junior74 said:
First complains about the ball, then says "I can't complain about the ball". Priceless!
Click to expand...

He was not complaining, he was answering a question put to him in his press conference.

Roger was talking a little bit about the new balls here, kind of saying he thought it was difficult to out-spin people, particularly late at night. What have you made of playing with the balls in a night session tonight, whether you were able to get spin on the ball?
RAFAEL NADAL: The ball is big. With colder conditions, especially during the night, the ball is bigger. Yes, the ball is going a little bit more slow, no? Not that high bounces that sometimes we used to have here.
He then goes on to say that it is what it is and that he personally would prefer a faster ball, but it's good quality and fair for everyone.

Roger said pretty much the same, although I did find his answer a little garbled. He seems to contradict himself at times.

Q. The new Dunlop tennis balls, some players have made comments they're a little bit too hard, not easy to put good spin on them, especially at night. How have you found them so far?
ROGER FEDERER: Well, they definitely play a touch different to the ones we've had the last couple years. I do see what they're saying. At night the spin is not taking off tremendously. I think, yeah, for me, I definitely have to go through a minor adjustment maybe from Perth, which was a faster court.

Look, one year ago it was too far back. It's hard to out-spin guys here. As they changed the finals also to a night session, and the semis also night sessions, I just feel like it's really important to have fast enough courts for night session conditions as the main matches are being played there. If you keep it slow, slow, at night the ball doesn't move.

From that standpoint I think they have done a nice job of speeding up the courts. Now the ball, honestly still early in the tournament to exactly tell you how it feels exactly. I still feel like you can serve your way out of trouble from the baseline. You can spin and slice, all that stuff we saw today.

It is true, you can't out-spin a guy here. I think that's clear.
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AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Red Rick said:
Miami is the deadest, slowest HC on Tour and Nadal never won it.
Click to expand...

Nadal made 5 finals in Miami, he likes it there but had tough luck with competition. Obviously Nadal is better in Miami then Cincy and 1st fall, it's all about the timing. Maybe even better than in IW level-wise.
 
R

rainingaces

Legend
weakera said:
“The ball is big. With colder conditions, especially during the night, the ball is bigger,” Nadal said.
“Yes, the ball is going a little bit more slow, no? Not that high bounces that sometimes we used to have here.
“But the ball is what there is. Is fair enough. Is a good quality ball. I can't complain about the ball.
“Personally if you ask me, I like little bit faster ball than this one
“But I can't say is a bad ball because is a good ball. I feel is a fair ball for everyone.”
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...Australian-Open-balls-Dan-Evans-Matthew-Ebden

Once again, thank you Rafa for pointing out what so few understand. Rafa enjoys fast conditions, it's the bounce that is more important.
Click to expand...

Was Rafa having a conversation with the ball, himself or a reporter?
 
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