How fast is this serve?

F

FRV3

Guest
What is the fps of your camera? I counted 13 or 14 frames before something appeared on the court. So I don't think it would be 131.6 mph by the calculations.

I just can't see the ball land. I'm judging by when the mark left on the court appears. Which may be a frame or multiple frames after the ball has landed? I don't know the physics.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
F

FRV3

Guest
Sorry, but honestly I’d put that about 92mph at best. Definitely not over 100.
I think you are wrong sir. I think it's around 110. Though to get a more accurate measurement, I higher quality video at 240 fps would be best. Alternatively, a decent radar gun would work.
 

njhmusicman

Semi-Pro
What is the fps of your camera? I counted 13 or 14 frames before something appeared on the court. So I don't think it would be 131.6 mph by the calculations.

I just can't see the ball land. I'm judging by when the mark left on the court appears. Which may be a frame or multiple frames after the ball has landed? I don't know the physics.
60fps
 

njhmusicman

Semi-Pro
Sorry, but honestly I’d put that about 92mph at best. Definitely not over 100.
Well maybe I did my math wrong, but I counted 22 frames from the time the ball hit my racquet to the time the ball hit the ground and inserted that into the website above and that is where I got 111 mph but I could've counted wrong
 
F

FRV3

Guest
Well maybe I did my math wrong, but I counted 22 frames from the time the ball hit my racquet to the time the ball hit the ground and inserted that into the website above and that is where I got 111 mph but I could've counted wrong
We go by initial speed, not average speed. So 130 mph if 22 frames at 60 fps, but I'm counting 13 frames at 30 fps. What is going on here?
 

njhmusicman

Semi-Pro
We go by initial speed, not average speed. So 130 mph if 22 frames at 60 fps, but I'm counting 13 frames at 30 fps. What is going on here?
I took the video with my phone at 1080p@60fps. Does it not tell you that under the stats in the youtube video? I could be looking at the wrong place though.
 
F

FRV3

Guest
I took the video with my phone at 1080p@60fps. Does it not tell you that under the stats in the youtube video? I could be looking at the wrong place though.
Ah yes, it's working now. I had to go to the YT site to get to work properly. Hold on let me check your work.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
The video may have been recorded at 60 fps but Youtube may have saved it as a 30 fps file (?), it looks that way based on how far the racket moves in one frame. ? To do stop action on YT use the period & comma keys. "Stats for nerds" shows 30 fps playback speed on your video (it does not show recording speed). I am not familiar with saving 60 fps videos on YT maybe it is an option. If so always save all frames recorded.

Take a video squarely from the side of the trajectory in front of your racket, camera on a tripod. Measure distance traveled in 1/30 sec. You can video a stick held along the trajectory with two black pieces of tape at 59" apart. Walk out so that it will cover where your video catches the ball. 59" is 100 MPH with 30 fps. [Conversion Factor 100 MPH = 1760 "/sec] If 60 fps use 1/2 X 59" for 100 MPH.

Questions answered.

You need high speed video to show the faster parts of the serve. You have only one or two frame with the racket approaching the ball at high speed. Does you smartphone have high speed video mode?
 
Last edited:

njhmusicman

Semi-Pro
The video may have been recorded at 60 fps but the Youtube saved video may be 30 fps (?), it looks that way based on how far the racket moves. ?

Take a video squarely from the side of the trajectory in front of your racket, camera on a tripod. Measure distance traveled in 1/30 sec. You can video a stick held along the trajectory with two black pieces of tape at 59" apart. Walk out so that it will be where your video catches the ball. 59" is 100 MPH with 30 fps. 60 fps use 1/2 X 59" for 100 MPH.

Questions answered.

You need high speed video to show the faster parts of the serve. You have only one or two frame with the racket approaching the ball at high speed.
ok, that makes sense. If you were to give an educated guess, though, on how fast that serve is, what would you say?
 
F

FRV3

Guest
The video may have been recorded at 60 fps but the Youtube saved video may be 30 fps (?), it looks that way based on how far the racket moves. ?
You gotta view it on the Youtube site itself. It's 30 FPS on talk tennis, but 60 FPS on Youtube. Weird. Didn't know that's how it worked.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
You gotta view it on the Youtube site itself. It's 30 FPS on talk tennis, but 60 FPS on Youtube. Weird. Didn't know that's how it worked.

Thanks for pointing that out. Stats for Nerds - shows that video plays back at 60 fps on Youtube but Youtube on the forum is missing half the frames - very important for analysis.

The serve looks better with 60 fps and you get another frame during approach to the ball.

I have had frame skipping issues in the past that seemed inconsistent. I'll make certain to always be on Vimeo or Youtube and avoid using the embedded Youtube.

Always go to Vimeo or Youtube when doing single frame. Don't view the embedded Youtube in the forum post.

Missed that for 60 fps for almost 10 years............
 
Last edited:

Dragy

Legend
Great power, clearly over 120 MPH. Calculator is rather reliable, but there're challenges with correct frame counting and determining how short ball landed into the box. So if we conservatively use 23 frames and 58ft, it's 121 MPH nevertheless.

One issue: you are likely footfaulting by landing too early:
lDnU5nU.png
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Lol you guys are insane, that frame count method is bs, that serve is not even 120, yet alone 130, its nowhere near that.

This serve is 110 and looks pretty much what the OP serve is, just like @MaxTennis said

This is a 128 serve (less than OP claim) and looks visually faster and much louder sound on impact
 

Dragy

Legend
Lol you guys are insane, that frame count method is bs, that serve is not even 120, yet alone 130, its nowhere near that.

This serve is 110 and looks pretty much what the OP serve is, just like @MaxTennis said

This is a 128 serve (less than OP claim) and looks visually faster and much louder sound on impact
Lol is your sound argument, try hitting with babolat without dampener and with prince with one, compare the sound.

Would be fun to watch you try return OP's serve. Well, if he lands it with enough frequency.
Framecount is precise within margins. "Looks visually faster" makes me want to give up on humanity.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Lol is your sound argument, try hitting with babolat without dampener and with prince with one, compare the sound.

Would be fun to watch you try return OP's serve. Well, if he lands it with enough frequency.
Framecount is precise within margins. "Looks visually faster" makes me want to give up on humanity.

His serve is nowhere near 130, whether u like it or not @MaxTennis has played tennis since he was a kid and is a high level player, I will trust his judgement before some framecount method from internet people.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Oh and btw I don't get why you needed to personally attack me with "you would like to see me return his serve", ive never claimed that OP's serve is not a fast serve and a good serve, I just said its nowhere near 130mph.
 
F

FRV3

Guest
Lol you guys are insane, that frame count method is bs, that serve is not even 120, yet alone 130, its nowhere near that.

This serve is 110 and looks pretty much what the OP serve is, just like @MaxTennis said

This is a 128 serve (less than OP claim) and looks visually faster and much louder sound on impact
If we’re being nit picky it’s probably just a tad under 120, like 118 (wanted to say this after my initial estimate, but didn’t since I felt it was nit picky. But my initial estimate was estimating the distance to be 60 feet and it’s probably a little less than that). Serve count method is not bs at all, but is best with higher FPS video. I used frame count method for awhile and then verified with a radar and got similar results. Frame count method is a mix between science and art. At 240 FPS it becomes entirely science with the only art being estimating distance.
 

Dragy

Legend
Oh and btw I don't get why you needed to personally attack me with "you would like to see me return his serve", ive never claimed that OP's serve is not a fast serve and a good serve, I just said its nowhere near 130mph.
I’ve been harsh and I’m defensive because I’m a math and physics guy. Hence I fully rely on anything which has strict logic and calculation as a basis. Taking into account I spent quite some time testing framecount method against pro videos with registered speeds - it had some margins like 5mph, but otherwise confirmed providing uniformly corresponding results.
You may prefer to rely on single person judgement.
I’ve got enough evidence to judge the serve as 120+, which I stated. I doubt it reaches 130 though.

I don’t get why you keep attacking us random internet people on and on!
 
F

FRV3

Guest
I’ve been harsh and I’m defensive because I’m a math and physics guy. Hence I fully rely on anything which has strict logic and calculation as a basis. Taking into account I spent quite some time testing framecount method against pro videos with registered speeds - it had some margins like 5mph, but otherwise confirmed providing uniformly corresponding results.
You may prefer to rely on single person judgement.
I’ve got enough evidence to judge the serve as 120+, which I stated. I doubt it reaches 130 though.

I don’t get why you keep attacking us random internet people on and on!
I must have miscounted the frames as I got 23.5 frames. I see you got 22-23 frames? I’m too lazy to recount.
 

Dragy

Legend
I must have miscounted the frames as I got 23.5 frames. I see you got 22-23 frames? I’m too lazy to recount.
I think it doesn't matter much for the discussion. We have a range from "I’d put that about 92mph at best" to "about 110" from keen-eyed guys, and we have 118-123 from you or me using video evidence and a verified calculator. It seems 5mph range is as good a precision as we can get, if not 10mph range. But even 115-125mph speaks for itself.

It's all Isner racquet, people always underestimate the powers pro players charge the racquets they endorse with!
 

njhmusicman

Semi-Pro
I think it doesn't matter much for the discussion. We have a range from "I’d put that about 92mph at best" to "about 110" from keen-eyed guys, and we have 118-123 from you or me using video evidence and a verified calculator. It seems 5mph range is as good a precision as we can get, if not 10mph range. But even 115-125mph speaks for itself.

It's all Isner racquet, people always underestimate the powers pro players charge the racquets they endorse with!
If only I would have worn my hat backwards and bounced the ball between my legs, I might have even unlocked more of its power :)
 

MaxTennis

Professional
Lol you guys are insane, that frame count method is bs, that serve is not even 120, yet alone 130, its nowhere near that.

This serve is 110 and looks pretty much what the OP serve is, just like @MaxTennis said

This is a 128 serve (less than OP claim) and looks visually faster and much louder sound on impact

That 128 mph looks legit to me.

Everyone needs to watch a big server like Kyrgios or Raonic live. A legit 130 mph bomb has a unique sound at contact is light years different from the OP’s.

Like this guy: Stanislav Korshunov Serve

On a side note: OP reminds me a bit of Jerzy Janowicz with the same build and the sunglasses haha
 
Last edited:
F

FRV3

Guest
@Dragy said it's well over 120mph (hell no)
And no I don't think it is even near, probably around 105-110 max
Idk man
I'm getting 118 by my estimations. I said the ball only travelled 58 feet. It could be more or less, really hard to see in the video.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
If I look at the video on Youtube (not the embedded YT on the forum) I see the ball
1) travel from the racket to the line of the net and one frame just below it.
2) then the ball seem to jump to the left a foot or so. That is not real.
3) I can't see impact on the court or lines.

Videos are compressed before being saved in your camera and then they are compressed again when Youtube saves them. Then they require less storage at Youtube and they require less bandwidth to stream the video to your home. The videos will take one frame and then make small changes to it and save that but not, for example, save all pixels of 7 frames. Save one reference frame and some changes for the next 7 frames. Then get a new reference frame and repeat. These compression processes can cause errors between what is true on the real image and what was compressed and saved. Maybe the tiny dull dot of the ball is being moved around by video compression. ? The original video on the OPs computer may be better but I believe that the camera compressed the raw image also.

Maybe you can do frame counting from the side, say, catch serve impact and ball bounce from the side fence, camera half way between the racket impact and ball bounce. The camera would be on the server's half of the court, near the side fence. That way the ball image would be big at both the racket impact and bounce.

The camera might also be placed safely to the side on the bounce side of the court.

I also gave you a direct way to get speed from the side. You could use a second camera 30 or 60 fps. The camera should not be hand held.
 
Last edited:
F

FRV3

Guest
It's gotta be at least 115 mph. I think a radar would read around there.
 

Dragy

Legend
Let's OP get a radar gun and measure his serve speed. If his serve reaches 120mph+ I'll send you $100 via paypal, otherwise you send me $100. How does that sound?
As discussed multiple times, radar gun should be properly used and calibrated. Hand radars used in random setups show just way off readings. But there’s always an option to get to play sight court, or just one with radar set up.
Anyway, who bears the costs for our challenge?
 
Great power, clearly over 120 MPH. Calculator is rather reliable, but there're challenges with correct frame counting and determining how short ball landed into the box. So if we conservatively use 23 frames and 58ft, it's 121 MPH nevertheless.

One issue: you are likely footfaulting by landing too early:
lDnU5nU.png
I deduct 10mph for that orange outfit unless you are in Holland.
 
Top