Which Career would you Prefer hypothetical

Will 22 slams be enough for Rafa to surpass Rogers Career

  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
Hello Everyone,

I have finally joined the forums after a couple of years reading on here on a daily basis as a guest. A little about myself - I have been a tennis fan since being a primary school kid in 95 watching the Australian open quarterfinal between Sampras and Courier. I didn't know the rules at the time but picked it up pretty easily, I ended up staying till past midnight to see the conclusion of the match when my parents had already gone to sleep. I was hooked after that and ended up playing tennis against a wall in my backyard and representing my school (I only play socially now). I was a Pete fan until he's retirement but after that found myself not really backing someone until Rafa really emerged WIM 08 and especially 09 OZ open I was and have been a die-hard fan ever since.

This Post is hypothetical and speculative I know we all value certain things more than others in terms of career achievements be interesting to see the results at the end. BGod had a poll a while back about what Rafa has to do to surpass Roger career wise and this is attempting to simplify if possible to if you believe -

22 Slams (assumption is 2 more FO) will be enough to consider Rafa's career superior to Rogers (assuming Roger adds no more)
which career do you choose and why.

Assume roughly things stay similar as they are now between their respective careers -

H2H - advantage Nadal
Slam head to head - Nadal
Total Career titles - Fed
BIG Titles - Nadal
slam distribution surface - Fed (9 titles off hard 45%)
total slams - Nadal (assume)
masters - Nadal
WTF - Fed ( we assume nadal doesn't get any)
weeks number 1 - Fed
consecutive weeks number 1 - Fed
Olympic gold - Nadal
Year end number 1 - Even (maybe Rafa has one more in him)

This post is not trying to diminish the Career of either one as they are living legends and icons of the sport. I actually ponder the question and am on the fence at present about it. I think currently them being tied in the slam race I would take Federer's Career over Rafa's if offered one over the other that's pure opinion as we all value certain things more than other things.

Let the debate begin if you want to vote then even list what u believe is enough for Rafa would be great.

Thanks!
 
BGod

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Federer dominated for more than a season. That's what I take. He also has numerous records, even though he'll lose some of the bigger ones his name will be on more lists than Nadal. And ultimately, fair or not, clay just isn't as big a prevalent a surface as hard.
 
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
Clay is 33% of the titles offered in the ATP schedule. This is true hard is more prevalent and may increase, decrease or stay the same as present gong forward. We Also had a period when 3/4 grand slams were grass grass now is the smallest % of titles offered I think we evaluate it for the current times but totally understand your opinion. For sure a excellent hard court player will have more opportunities to add to their career vs clay and grass in the foreseeable future.
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Tbh most of Fed's remaining stats bill be about streaks/distributions, etc, all the while Djokovic got the streak that matters the most in holding all 4 Grand Slams at once.

All the "sustained dominance on multiple surfaces" is arbitrary as hell, especailly if you take into account that started before Djokovic, Nadan and Murray even first made a dent into the Tour.
 
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
Yes I didn't include Novak as the thread will have to many options, and this is a ever changing race. I do think that if Novak did equal the slam record I would say he's career was superior
 
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
Would also like to know unforcedterror and the others that vote No, what career achievements they have to see to consider Rafa’s career superior to Rogers.
 
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
Nole Slam said:
I don't know.
Click to expand...
Yes it’s not so straight forward the slams are for sure the most prestigious the lack of one world tour final is a big hole for me but in saying that I wouldn’t trade 1 slam for even 5 WTF. Laver doesn’t have WTF it won’t affect him being in many GOAT conversations.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Red Rick said:
Tbh most of Fed's remaining stats bill be about streaks/distributions, etc, all the while Djokovic got the streak that matters the most in holding all 4 Grand Slams at once.

All the "sustained dominance on multiple surfaces" is arbitrary as hell, especailly if you take into account that started before Djokovic, Nadan and Murray even first made a dent into the Tour.
Click to expand...
And it continued even when they did make a dent into the tour.

And obviously it started that way since he is a generation older than Djokodal. Didn't Djokovic's sustained dominance also start after Fed turned 33?

And LOL at mentioning Murray in the same breath. Like he would have stopped Federer's dominance :-D
 
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DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
Is 2 slams enough even if they are FO for Rafa to have the superior career and if not what is?
 
Winners or Errors

Winners or Errors

Legend
Rafa = clear CGOAT. Isn’t that enough? His French Open count will never be surpassed, and I doubt his record tallies at all the other clay events will be, either. Yes, he’s good off of clay, but everything stems from his dominance on the dirt.

If I had to choose between Rafa and Fed’s careers, I’d rather be a force of nature than a work of art.
 
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
Winners or Errors said:
Rafa = clear CGOAT. Isn’t that enough? His French Open count will never be surpassed, and I doubt his record tallies at all the other clay events will be, either. Yes, he’s good off of clay, but everything stems from his dominance on the dirt.

If I had to choose between Rafa and Fed’s careers, I’d rather be a force of nature than a work of art.
Click to expand...
Yes for sure his stats off clay are impressive enough for me he has as many slams as McEnroe.
Fed has 9 slams off hard
Nadal 7 slams off clay
Novak 6 slams off hard
So to me that’s not to bad of a distribution skew as it’s made out to be
 
ADuck

ADuck

Legend
The aim of tennis is to win tournaments. The best player ever should have won the most of the important tournaments, all other stats are just misdirection. H2H, weeks at no.1 etc are really only predictors for who will win the most slams.
 
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
ADuck said:
The aim of tennis is to win tournaments. The best player ever should have won the most of the important tournaments, all other stats are just misdirection. H2H, weeks at no.1 etc are really only predictors for who will win the most slams.
Click to expand...
I think so as well I think the other factors are involved when we have a tiebreak scenario. But for sure H2H doesn’t really factor in for me when evaluating the careers as much. I def put more emphasis on the slams they are the most prestigious. You won’t see any of the big 3
Playing through injury to win a WTF compared to a grand slam that’s very clear.
 
DIMI_D

DIMI_D

Hall of Fame
mike danny said:
This is my general opinion and I'm sticking to it regardless of what the general public feels.
Click to expand...
I respect that! That’s what I wanted to see I won’t be swayed by the general public either but I’m interested to see what a poll will produce when it’s all said and done!
 
UnderratedSlam

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
The question should be "were Rafa's 18 already enough?"

Almost.

20 certainly is. At the very least making him equal.

22 is a Fedfan question, not to be taken seriously...
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
GOAT will always cause debate but most people will give it to Nadal at 22 slams.

21 maybe not.
 
Beckerserve

Beckerserve

Legend
DIMI_D said:
Hello Everyone,

I have finally joined the forums after a couple of years reading on here on a daily basis as a guest. A little about myself - I have been a tennis fan since being a primary school kid in 95 watching the Australian open quarterfinal between Sampras and Courier. I didn't know the rules at the time but picked it up pretty easily, I ended up staying till past midnight to see the conclusion of the match when my parents had already gone to sleep. I was hooked after that and ended up playing tennis against a wall in my backyard and representing my school (I only play socially now). I was a Pete fan until he's retirement but after that found myself not really backing someone until Rafa really emerged WIM 08 and especially 09 OZ open I was and have been a die-hard fan ever since.

This Post is hypothetical and speculative I know we all value certain things more than others in terms of career achievements be interesting to see the results at the end. BGod had a poll a while back about what Rafa has to do to surpass Roger career wise and this is attempting to simplify if possible to if you believe -

22 Slams (assumption is 2 more FO) will be enough to consider Rafa's career superior to Rogers (assuming Roger adds no more)
which career do you choose and why.

Assume roughly things stay similar as they are now between their respective careers -

H2H - advantage Nadal
Slam head to head - Nadal
Total Career titles - Fed
BIG Titles - Nadal
slam distribution surface - Fed (9 titles off hard 45%)
total slams - Nadal (assume)
masters - Nadal
WTF - Fed ( we assume nadal doesn't get any)
weeks number 1 - Fed
consecutive weeks number 1 - Fed
Olympic gold - Nadal
Year end number 1 - Even (maybe Rafa has one more in him)

This post is not trying to diminish the Career of either one as they are living legends and icons of the sport. I actually ponder the question and am on the fence at present about it. I think currently them being tied in the slam race I would take Federer's Career over Rafa's if offered one over the other that's pure opinion as we all value certain things more than other things.

Let the debate begin if you want to vote then even list what u believe is enough for Rafa would be great.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Already prefer Nadals career. Olympic Singles Gold and the better h2h at the Majors for me would be massive.
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
As a comparison between two of the GOATs - Roger and Rafa - it's already too close for me to call.

Head-to-head has never been much of a factor for me, because if two players have roughly equal achievements overall, if one is better H2H, the other is better versus the field.

Distribution doesn't matter too much to me, although career slam (and if someone achieves double career slam) would merit a little consideration. So, I don't knock Rafa for not being as dominant off clay, or give him extra points for so dominating RG. When it comes to slams over the last 20-plus years, one is as good as the other.

To me, Roger's main edges are in weeks at #1, but they're even in YE#1s, which I value more. I simply don't regard the ATP Finals as a huge thing, and that 6-0 advantage to Roger is ofset by Rafa's other "big titles" - M1000s and OSG.

(Davis Cups are a team thing - not relevant.)

Let's see where they (all, for that matter) end up. While one or the other may end up with the stronger (strongest?) case, Roger, Rafa and Novak, barring anything unforeseen, will always be grouped closely together.
 
WildRevolver

WildRevolver

Hall of Fame
DIMI_D said:
Hello Everyone,

I have finally joined the forums after a couple of years reading on here on a daily basis as a guest. A little about myself - I have been a tennis fan since being a primary school kid in 95 watching the Australian open quarterfinal between Sampras and Courier. I didn't know the rules at the time but picked it up pretty easily, I ended up staying till past midnight to see the conclusion of the match when my parents had already gone to sleep. I was hooked after that and ended up playing tennis against a wall in my backyard and representing my school (I only play socially now). I was a Pete fan until he's retirement but after that found myself not really backing someone until Rafa really emerged WIM 08 and especially 09 OZ open I was and have been a die-hard fan ever since.

This Post is hypothetical and speculative I know we all value certain things more than others in terms of career achievements be interesting to see the results at the end. BGod had a poll a while back about what Rafa has to do to surpass Roger career wise and this is attempting to simplify if possible to if you believe -

22 Slams (assumption is 2 more FO) will be enough to consider Rafa's career superior to Rogers (assuming Roger adds no more)
which career do you choose and why.

Assume roughly things stay similar as they are now between their respective careers -

H2H - advantage Nadal
Slam head to head - Nadal
Total Career titles - Fed
BIG Titles - Nadal
slam distribution surface - Fed (9 titles off hard 45%)
total slams - Nadal (assume)
masters - Nadal
WTF - Fed ( we assume nadal doesn't get any)
weeks number 1 - Fed
consecutive weeks number 1 - Fed
Olympic gold - Nadal
Year end number 1 - Even (maybe Rafa has one more in him)

This post is not trying to diminish the Career of either one as they are living legends and icons of the sport. I actually ponder the question and am on the fence at present about it. I think currently them being tied in the slam race I would take Federer's Career over Rafa's if offered one over the other that's pure opinion as we all value certain things more than other things.

Let the debate begin if you want to vote then even list what u believe is enough for Rafa would be great.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Avatar thief.
 
UnderratedSlam

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
RS said:
GOAT will always cause debate but most people will give it to Nadal at 22 slams.

21 maybe not.
Click to expand...
Many gave it to him when he had 17.

Of course, this isn't the case but only because there is no such thing as GOAT...

There is only - maybe - best of the Big 3.
 
itrium84

itrium84

Hall of Fame
DIMI_D said:
Hello Everyone,

I have finally joined the forums after a couple of years reading on here on a daily basis as a guest. A little about myself - I have been a tennis fan since being a primary school kid in 95 watching the Australian open quarterfinal between Sampras and Courier. I didn't know the rules at the time but picked it up pretty easily, I ended up staying till past midnight to see the conclusion of the match when my parents had already gone to sleep. I was hooked after that and ended up playing tennis against a wall in my backyard and representing my school (I only play socially now). I was a Pete fan until he's retirement but after that found myself not really backing someone until Rafa really emerged WIM 08 and especially 09 OZ open I was and have been a die-hard fan ever since.

This Post is hypothetical and speculative I know we all value certain things more than others in terms of career achievements be interesting to see the results at the end. BGod had a poll a while back about what Rafa has to do to surpass Roger career wise and this is attempting to simplify if possible to if you believe -

22 Slams (assumption is 2 more FO) will be enough to consider Rafa's career superior to Rogers (assuming Roger adds no more)
which career do you choose and why.

Assume roughly things stay similar as they are now between their respective careers -

H2H - advantage Nadal
Slam head to head - Nadal
Total Career titles - Fed
BIG Titles - Nadal
slam distribution surface - Fed (9 titles off hard 45%)
total slams - Nadal (assume)
masters - Nadal
WTF - Fed ( we assume nadal doesn't get any)
weeks number 1 - Fed
consecutive weeks number 1 - Fed
Olympic gold - Nadal
Year end number 1 - Even (maybe Rafa has one more in him)

This post is not trying to diminish the Career of either one as they are living legends and icons of the sport. I actually ponder the question and am on the fence at present about it. I think currently them being tied in the slam race I would take Federer's Career over Rafa's if offered one over the other that's pure opinion as we all value certain things more than other things.

Let the debate begin if you want to vote then even list what u believe is enough for Rafa would be great.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
First of all, it's always nice to see kind and reasonable fans in here.
Second, with these hypothetical circumstances you proposed (Nadal +2 FO), I still give a slight edge to Fed. If it was 1 FO and one AO/W/USO, then I would give slight edge to Rafa. If it was +3 FO for him, again, slight edge to Rafa.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
tennisjedi said:
I'd prefer Rafa's career. His dominance on clay is just unbelievable and should not be held against him.
This board has an anti-clay bias. If Nadal's slam distribution was 1 AO, 2 RG, 13 W, 4 USO, I doubt many people here would care if he had a grass skew.
Click to expand...
I disagree with the last part. If Novak had 9 AO's and very few other slams, people would notice the AO skew.
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
mike danny said:
I disagree with the last part. If Novak had 9 AO's and very few other slams, people would notice the AO skew.
Click to expand...
The part in bold is key. Nadal does not have "very few other Slams" outside clay. Nadal has 7 Slams outside clay (ATG tier, same as Agassi and McEnroe), and has won at least 2 Slams on each surface (hard, grass and clay), while Federer only has won 1 Slam on clay. If we add to his 7 Slams outside clay (already ATG level) his 13 RG we have a GOAT candidate.

Thus, Nadal having a lot of RG is not a problem because he has at least 2 Slams on each surface and 7 Slams outside clay.

21 > 20.
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
I'll take Pete - Most Alpha Game in history. 14 slams, 286 weeks and 6 consecutive year end #1s, dominate all rivals in the deepest, toughest era in history - PLUS won Davis Cup on clay against the Russians, ending the American Drought. With a genetic disorder affecting stamina, prior to Wunder Juice and Medical Senzu Beans. Set the barometer by which all future ATGs will be judged, never have to worry about rent because you've always got a place rent free in insecure fans of future ATGs heads.
 
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