The reason no younger ATG has broken through?

F

fox

Professional
zagor said:
Yes, <30 crowd still has one slam combined. We could have another 10+ pages of excuse-making, it doesn't change that.

Another fact is, Murray and Wawrinka who are no ATGs have been able to beat younger versions of the Djokodal in the finals to win their first slams. Similar goes for those weak era clowns you and your ilk crap so much on, Hewitt and Safin were able to beat Pete Sampras in their maiden slam finals, in his home slam.
Click to expand...
How you want to persuade Djokovic fans to understand something that happened 15 years before they started watching tennis.
 
B

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Spencer Gore said:
You spent all that time demanding I list the achievements of guys who started winning at 24-25 then don't reply when I supply you with a detailed answer?

It's almost as if you didn't like the factual answer because it completely contradicted your ill-informed but very loudly proclaimed bias.

It's a funny old game.
Click to expand...

1. some of us have life outside this forum

2. do you really expect an answer to that word salad? to not name it garbage?
ok, let me share a few thoughts after reading the first names:
- can you please tell to all of us, what was the ranking of players like Tilden, Borotra, in a ranking system that was universally accepted and comprised all top players, you know, something like the ATP ranking is today?
- when you name players from the period of time when modern GS tournaments were split into amateur & pro tournaments, are you suggesting that Nole's competition is playing at an amateur level?
cause otherwise, I can't see how you can compare the period of time when some players would be refused the right to participate in the amateur / pro tournament for example, this is without taking other reasons for which players were not allowed to enter and compete in one tournament or another

before expecting and actually demanding an answer, why don't you bother to provide a post that can actually be discussed? instead of throwing a word salad based on a lousy google search
 
Spencer Gore

Spencer Gore

Legend
blablavla said:
1. some of us have life outside this forum

2. do you really expect an answer to that word salad? to not name it garbage?
ok, let me share a few thoughts after reading the first names:
- can you please tell to all of us, what was the ranking of players like Tilden, Borotra, in a ranking system that was universally accepted and comprised all top players, you know, something like the ATP ranking is today?
- when you name players from the period of time when modern GS tournaments were split into amateur & pro tournaments, are you suggesting that Nole's competition is playing at an amateur level?
cause otherwise, I can't see how you can compare the period of time when some players would be refused the right to participate in the amateur / pro tournament for example, this is without taking other reasons for which players were not allowed to enter and compete in one tournament or another

before expecting and actually demanding an answer, why don't you bother to provide a post that can actually be discussed? instead of throwing a word salad based on a lousy google search
Click to expand...
You got it wrong. You've merely exposed you have no understanding of tennis history. Contrary to your claim, many players have won multiple slams at 24+, including several legends of the game.

Next time you try for a "gotcha", do your research first. It will save you embarrassment.
 
B

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Spencer Gore said:
You got it wrong. You've merely exposed you have no understanding of tennis history. Contrary to your claim, many players have won multiple slams at 24+, including several legends of the game.

Next time you try for a "gotcha", do your research first. It will save you embarrassment.
Click to expand...

sure buddy
just one question, to confirm how precisely did I expose myself
can you please tell to all of us, what was the ranking of players like Tilden, Borotra, in a ranking system that was universally accepted and comprised all top players, you know, something like the ATP ranking is today?
 
Spencer Gore

Spencer Gore

Legend
blablavla said:
sure buddy
just one question, to confirm how precisely did I expose myself
can you please tell to all of us, what was the ranking of players like Tilden, Borotra, in a ranking system that was universally accepted and comprised all top players, you know, something like the ATP ranking is today?
Click to expand...
No point trying desperately to shift the goalposts. Plenty of ATGs started winning at 24+.

Try educating yourself on tennis history before asking silly "gotcha" questions. Then the forum can have some decent debates.
 
B

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Spencer Gore said:
No point trying desperately to shift the goalposts. Plenty of ATGs started winning at 24+.

Try educating yourself on tennis history before asking silly "gotcha" questions. Then the forum can have some decent debates.
Click to expand...

lol
why don't you help me to educate myself?
I am desperately needing to know what is the ranking history of Tilden, Borotra in a ranking system comparable to ATP ranking, otherwise I feel uneducated, and this leads to the sentiment of weak era letting one player to vulture titles and weeks at #1
 
Spencer Gore

Spencer Gore

Legend
blablavla said:
why don't you help me to educate myself?
Click to expand...
I already have.

Players aged 24+ who won multiple slams:


27 Tilden (10 majors)

28 Wawrinka (3 majors)

24 Kodes (3 majors)

25 Borotra (4 majors)

24 Rafter (2 majors)

24 Crawford (6 majors)

27 L Doherty (6 majors)

25 R Doherty (4 majors)

26 Nastase (2 majors)

24 S Smith (2 majors)

24 Perry (8 majors)

29 Seixas (2 majors)

30 Drobny (3 majors)

24 Vilas (4 majors)

25 Von Cramm (2 majors)

25 Kramer (3 majors)

25 Cochet (7 majors)

29 Brookes (3 majors)

25 A Murray (3 majors)

32 A Gore (3 majors)

27 Parker (4 majors)

25 Fraser (3 majors)

25 A Ashe (3 majors)

27 Stolle (2 majors)

24 Patterson (3 majors)

28 Schroeder (2 majors)

26 B Patty (2 majors)

24 Lendl (8 majors)

25 Pietrangeli (2 majors)

24 Emerson (12 majors)
 
Last edited:
B

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Spencer Gore said:
I already have.

Players aged 24+ who won multiple slams:


27 Tilden (10 majors)

28 Wawrinka (3 majors)

24 Kodes (3 majors)

25 Borotra (4 majors)

24 Rafter (2 majors)

24 Crawford (6 majors)

27 L Doherty (6 majors)

25 R Doherty (4 majors)

26 Nastase (2 majors)

24 S Smith (2 majors)

24 Perry (8 majors)

29 Seixas (2 majors)

30 Drobny (3 majors)

24 Vilas (4 majors)

25 Von Cramm (2 majors)

25 Kramer (3 majors)

25 Cochet (7 majors)

29 Brookes (3 majors)

25 A Murray (3 majors)

32 A Gore (3 majors)

27 Parker (4 majors)

25 Fraser (3 majors)

25 A Ashe (3 majors)

27 Stolle (2 majors)

24 Patterson (3 majors)

28 Schroeder (2 majors)

26 Newcombe (5 majors)

26 B Patty (2 majors)

24 Lendl (8 majors)

25 Pietrangeli (2 majors)

24 Emerson (12 majors)
Click to expand...

sorry pal, I don't see the ranking of Tilden and Borotra in this word salad
 
Spencer Gore

Spencer Gore

Legend
blablavla said:
sorry pal, I don't see the ranking of Tilden and Borotra in this word salad
Click to expand...
It's not "word salad". It's a list of facts. "Word salad is a phrase with a very specific meaning. I've educated you on tennis, I'm not going to educate you in English. Get your school teacher to do that.

Next time you presume players 24+ can't win multiple slams and become ATGs you'll recall it and save embarrassment. No need to thank me.
 
B

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Spencer Gore said:
It's not "word salad". It's a list of facts. "Word salad is a phrase with a very specific meaning. I've educated you on tennis, I'm not going to educate you in English. Get your school teacher to do that.

Next time you presume players 24+ can't win multiple slams and become ATGs you'll recall it and save embarrassment. No need to thank me.
Click to expand...

it's a word salad that has little or nothing to do with the starting point of the discussion
next time you want to have a discussion, please do bother to not throw garbage into it, and then expect to have a meaningful discussion :-D
 
Aabye5

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Let the hype begin.....Sebi Korda anointed "great" by Rafa Nadal :cool:

I thought you needed to perform a miracle, refrain from intoxication, and get the approval of three ATGs...Or thus, I have heard.

nadal-korda-washington-2021-practice.jpg


https://www.atptour.com/en/news/nadal-korda-washington-2021-feature

Alright, I might reading what I want out of this, but I can't help it... ;)
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Enceladus said:
The problem with Fed fans, who sharply criticize Next Gen here, is that they take examples from the past and ignore the context. They use the argument "Safin / Hewitt managed to beat Sampras" and with this argument they denounce Next Gen players and Thiem that they could not beat Djokovic and Nadal in the grandslam final. Well, but Safin, Hewitt and other young players from the past who have been able to beat old and experienced champions in big matches had fast surfaces at their disposal, so the punch technique was enough for them to succeed, they didn't have to build the extra physical condition and endurance, which require today's form of tennis due to slower surfaces. Another thing is that Big 3 is taking advantage of advances in sports medicine and rehabilitation, thanks to which they have remained in winning forms well after 30. This luxury was not had by Sampras, Lendl and other champions from the past.
Slowing the surfaces and advances in sports medicine and rehabilitation are the two main reasons why 20s tennis players have failed to break the dominance of 30s tennis players. The claim that Next Gen are worse tennis players than their predecessors is short-sighted, ignoring the change in conditions on the tennis scene.
Click to expand...
Meanwhile, it didn't take a ton of effort from Medvedev to win his first GS against a terrible Djokovic.

So much for players playing at a high level consistently in their 30's, too much for Next Gen wah wah.
 
Last edited:
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Hyde said:
In my opinion, those are the main reasons:

1) They have Djokovic, Nadal and Federer in their way
2) The generation born between 1989-1995 simply wasn’t talented enough to produce an ATG
3) The generation born 1996 is still too young to be ATG-material. You need to win at least 5 slams, reach couple more finals, win a lot of tournaments and have the #1 ranking at some point to be considered an ATG. Nowadays, you don’t do all these things aged 23 or something.
Maybe someone like Tsitsipas will be an ATG but we don‘t know it yet. He is still only 22 years old, why shouldn’t it be possible for him to have a career with 5-7 slam titles? But you can‘t expect him to be an ATG (with 7 slam titles) at age 22. So these players can still break through as an ATG in the coming years.
Click to expand...
If they win 6-7 slams in the upcoming terrible era, it won't prove anything. They will be more accomplished than their predecessors, but better is an entirely different matter.
 
aldeayeah

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
mike danny said:
Meanwhile, it didn't take a ton of effort from Medvedev to win his first GS against a terrible Djokovic.

So much for players play at a high level consistently in their 30's, too much for Next Gen wah wah.
Click to expand...
Don't say that. As the OP proved, what Med did was possibly the THOUGHTEST achievement in modern tennis. ATG-hood looms now ;)
 
F

fox

Professional
I mean if Cameron Norrie can win IW over Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev then what kind of competition they are..
 
F

fox

Professional
aldeayeah said:
Tsitsipas has been arse since RG, Med is in a post-slam lull, Zverev, uh... is Zverev.
Click to expand...
Yeah like in every other tournament out there. Tsitsipas is doing well only on clay. Medvedev is the best and I agree it might be a bit of post slam shape but it is clear the competition is not too hard to beat.
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

Legend
Tennis_Freak99 said:
Atleast they were not world number 86, 48, 54 etc when they played the slam final

Sors let's not go there lol
Click to expand...

Well it's a little embarrassing when we analyze Connors' early wins over an ancient Ken Rosewall, straight-setting the old guy in both Wimbledon and USO Finals! :laughing: :-D:D
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

Legend
Arak said:
I have high hopes for Alcaraz and Musetti. They are already making a reputation for themselves.
Click to expand...

Alcaraz took care of Murray in straight sets at the Erste Bank Open in Vienna; 3 & 4 in a lengthy match with sustained, long points that gassed the old guy! :laughing: :-D :giggle:
 
One Handed Dynasty

One Handed Dynasty

Semi-Pro
Arak said:
I have high hopes for Alcaraz and Musetti. They are already making a reputation for themselves.
Click to expand...
Agreed, they have a level of mental toughness that I haven’t seen from any of their next gen predecessors bar Medvedev.

On a related note, this conversation seems to be neglecting mental strength as a skill. While the Zverev, Tsitsipas, and Medvedev gen is in their physical primes now, they are still mental midgets. Alcatraz has shown a higher mental level already than Tsitsipas and Medvedev have shown their entire careers. It’s a connundrum: the tour used to be littered with players with technical deficiencies, like Roddick and his backhand, who won in spite of their limitations through their strengths and mental toughness. Now the tour is littered with technically perfect players who are mentally fragile and lose in spite of their lack of exploitable weaknesses.

It’s astonishing really. The average physical and technical level of the tour has gone up the past two decades, while the mental level has dropped. Take Taitsipas for example. Technically he doesn’t have any exploitable weaknesses, but he creates them through poor decision making and shot selection.
 
Aabye5

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
One Handed Dynasty said:
Agreed, they have a level of mental toughness that I haven’t seen from any of their next gen predecessors bar Medvedev.

On a related note, this conversation seems to be neglecting mental strength as a skill. While the Zverev, Tsitsipas, and Medvedev gen is in their physical primes now, they are still mental midgets. Alcatraz has shown a higher mental level already than Tsitsipas and Medvedev have shown their entire careers. It’s a connundrum: the tour used to be littered with players with technical deficiencies, like Roddick and his backhand, who won in spite of their limitations through their strengths and mental toughness. Now the tour is littered with technically perfect players who are mentally fragile and lose in spite of their lack of exploitable weaknesses.

It’s astonishing really. The average physical and technical level of the tour has gone up the past two decades, while the mental level has dropped. Take Taitsipas for example. Technically he doesn’t have any exploitable weaknesses, but he creates them through poor decision making and shot selection.
Click to expand...

I think when you have a lot of players who have won based on their skills, they don't have to develop the mental toughness as much.

Look at the RG final this year...Tsitsipas would probably have won even losing the 4th set against lesser opponents. He played well enough that even though his head let him down, he still had chances to win. Or the USO last year...Zverev fights Thiem, and they both stumble. One of them had to pull through, and it happened to be Timmy.

On top of that, they've gotten rid of 5-set M1000s. How much scar tissue did Rafa build up in the '05 Miami final against Fed? There's no way to recreate that sort of pressure in a 3-set match. It taxes you physically and mentally. You can put in the reps for the physical side...
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Aabye5 said:
On top of that, they've gotten rid of 5-set M1000s. How much scar tissue did Rafa build up in the '05 Miami final against Fed? There's no way to recreate that sort of pressure in a 3-set match. It taxes you physically and mentally. You can put in the reps for the physical side...
Click to expand...
Really interesting to wonder how many masters and WTF would the Next Gen have if they still had BO5 finals.
 
aldeayeah

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
One Handed Dynasty said:
Take Taitsipas for example. Technically he doesn’t have any exploitable weaknesses, but he creates them through poor decision making and shot selection.
Click to expand...
He's over-relying on topspin to the point I'm not sure he can reliably flatten his strokes/penetrate the court anymore, and his returning is erratic at best.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
One Handed Dynasty said:
Now the tour is littered with technically perfect players who are mentally fragile and lose in spite of their lack of exploitable weaknesses.
Click to expand...
Apart from the Big 3, who are the young players that are technically perfect? I’ve been bemoaning along with other coaches I know that none of the young players are technically perfect very unlike the Big 3. Thiem is probably the one getting closer to that definition now that he has shortened his strokes.

Technical problems
Zverev - 2nd serve and toss consistency. Otherwise pretty good game for all surfaces. Can be passive mentally and play too defensively from the baseline
Tsitsipas - long-take back strokes unsuitable for fast courts, bad DTL-BH and general inability to flatten out BH without making errors on fast courts, bad BH slice, poor BH returns, falls away to the left on slice making it difficult to hit effective serve+1 shots or approach the net on fast court, does not like low contact point which makes him unsuitable for grass
Medvedev - awkward technique without much topspin (lower 10% for rpm in top 100) which makes him dependant on hitting deep or near the lines all the time which is difficult to do consistently on slow surfaces, does not like high contact point like on clay, rhythm can be disrupted by use of slice shots, still weak at finishing at net, slice is not great.
Shapovalov - every shot has a lot of variance in terms of body position/swing depending on opponent‘s shot leading to wildly inconsistent game under pressure
Berrettini - weak topspin BH, movement not great
Rublev - no finesse or change of pace in rallies. Hits only a hard ball and that’s a tough strategy to win a lot on slow courts
Sinner - weak serve. Seems to be improving this and has good potential
Alacaraz - weak serve. Footwork seems bad on defense as he doesn’t seem to anticipate well on fast courts. Can he improve his serve and anticipation?
Hurkacz and Rudd seem to have somewhat decent technique without huge flaws and might have significant upside. Lloyd Harris is a wildcard who might improve a lot too.

Do you also see any players who are technically proficient enough to hit the ball on the rise from close to the baseline and put pressure on their opponents constantly like Federer and Djokovic? Also, how many of them slide well on hard courts and clay like Djokovic which is a big part of why he plays outstanding defense from close to the baseline and makes the court smaller. I have the exact opposite opinion that all these players struggle to win close matches against strong opponents across all surfaces because they have technical flaws that can be exploited or which fall apart under stress.
 
Last edited:
TimHenmanATG

TimHenmanATG

Hall of Fame
When preening oneself on Instagram satisfies a reward mechanism, then it's no wonder that a lot of these players will be lax with their specialised sporting ambition.
 
DSH

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Sunny014 said:
Beating Federer and Nadal in slams don't mean much, they are both useless and beatable in the last few years.

Djokovic is the man to beat.

In 2004-06 if you beat Agassi it meant nothing, you had to beat Federer to say that yes I can win slams.

Same logic, Nadal and Federer are finished, they have been quite beatable since 2-3 years now (outside their pet slams).
Click to expand...
:giggle::-D:laughing::p
 
DSH

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
SonnyT said:
Fans of Federer and Nadal are hypocritical and unfair in their criticism of next gens. Take these 2 examples.

At '20 AO, Thiem played a spectacular match beating Nadal for the 1st time at a Slam, but then lost to Djokovic in final. People here kept calling Thiem a choker for that, and gave him next to no credit for beating Nadal. First, how could he choke, if he wasn't anywhere near victory in the final (he had no BP at all in the last 2 sets).? Secondly, Nadal was much more a choker in that tournament, as he lost 3 tiebreaks to Thiem. And yet no one here, except me, called Nadal a choker for that.

At '21 RG, Tsisipas lost to Djokovic in final, and was called a choker again. And yet no one here called Nadal a choker for losing SF to Djokovic while being exhausted in the 4th set.

People even called Shapo and Berrett chokers for losing to Djokovic at Wimbledon. Fedfans and Rafans are determined to call choker any next gen losing any Slam matches to Djokovic.
Click to expand...
In the fourth set, Thiem was 2-1 in favor and had a break point which would have helped him win the title.
:D
 
L

Lebsta

Rookie
Jonas78 said:
The simple answer is that they are not good enough. The "solution" that Big3 are too good is plain and simple BS. Stan & Murray beat Big3 to win 3 slams when Big3 was in their prime. Delpo and Cilic also did.

Why? Good question. I think its a mix.

- Athletic talents choose other sports.
- No competition from the US, Australia and South America
- Social media & playstations takes away the attention to put in the effort needed at a young age
- Bad coaching. Probably too easy living on your height as a junior, which causes impaired movement etc.

Big3 were born within 6 years, to think that talents like this wont be born again is the stupidest thing i hear. Its like thinking Usain Bolts record cant be broken, or that we will never see a Messi or Ronaldo again. Its recency bias at its very best.
Click to expand...

All great points. Also the fact is that now players can earn lots of money off the court, thus being less inclined to push for greatness in court
 
titoelcolombiano

titoelcolombiano

Legend
Spencer Gore said:
There may well be a very simple reason why no young ATG has broken through to establish themselves. They've had to try and break through three of the greatest players who ever lifted a racquet -who have all been playing at the same time.

Nothing is harder than winning that first slam. The vast majority of ATG's defeated someone who WASN'T an ATG in their first slam title. Very few defeated an ATG on their way to the final. Those who did tended to beat an ATG who was their contemporary. But legends like Connors, Borg and Federer got their first slam without having to face one of the legends of the game, at all. The list is as follows:


FIRST SLAM

CONNORS
F: Phil Dent
Slam wins: 0 Highest Rank: 17
Sf: Alexander

BORG -
F: Manuel Orantes
Slam wins: 1 Highest Rank: 2
Sf: Solomon

McENROE
F: Vitas Gerulaitis
Slam Wins: 1 Highest Rank: 3
Sf:CONNORS

WILANDER
F: Guillermo Vilas
Slam Wins: 4 Highest Rank: 2
Sf: Clerc

LENDL
F: JOHN MCENROE
Slam Wins: 7 Highest Rank: 1
Sf: WILANDER

BECKER
F: Kevin Curren
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 5
Sf: Jarryd

EDBERG
F: MATS WILANDER
Slam Wins: 7 Highest Rank: 1
Sf: LENDL

SAMPRAS
F: ANDRE AGASSI
Slam Wins: 8 Highest Rank: 1
Sf: MCENROE

AGASSI
F: Goran Ivanisevic
Slam Wins: 1 Highest Rank: 2
Sf: MCENROE

FEDERER
F: Mark Philippoussis
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 8
Sf: Roddick

NADAL
F: Mariano Puerta
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 9
Sf: FEDERER

DJOKOVIC
Jo-Willfried Tsonga
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 5
Sf: FEDERER
Click to expand...
Very good point. It must be demoralising for a talented youngster over the last 15 years to earn a breakthrough win over Fed, Nadal or Djokovic just to then have to get through the other two also to actually win the tournament... nightmare stuff
 
Aabye5

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Aabye5 said:
At the last 3 Slams -

AO:
Medvdev (in a surprisingly mug-like final) and Zverev was taken out by Nole
Tsitsipas was taken out by Medvedev

RG:
Medvedev and Zverev were both taken out by Tsitsipas who is not a mug
Tsitsipas was taken out by Nole in a decent final

Wimbledon:
Medvedev was taken out by Hurkacz who is not a mug
Tsitsipas was taken out by Tiafoe who is not a mug on Mondays, apparently (or maybe it's 2021)
Zverev was taken out by Auger-Aliassime who hasn't shown himself to be a mug or not


That's a pretty good list, if you ask me
Click to expand...

In 2022 -

AO: Tsitsipas lost to Medvedev, Medvedev lost to Nadal.

I think it's clear Zverev is the weak link.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
jm1980 said:
You all are missing the OP's point. Federer kickstarted his dominant form when he won his first Slam, giving him the belief that he could do it. In that FIRST Slam he didn't have to face any former Slam champions to do it.

None of the youngsters have really had this chance to face a Philippoussis in a Slam final. If they did, maybe they could have started consistently winning against the greats as well, like Federer did
Click to expand...
Well, this has aged poorly LOL.
 
jm1980

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
mike danny said:
Well, this has aged poorly LOL.
Click to expand...
It really hasn't. My point was none of the youngsters had the opportunity to face a Philippoussis type of player in their first Slam final to gain some confidence. The only one who had was Thiem but he's been struggling with injuries
 
Rosstour

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Spencer Gore said:
There may well be a very simple reason why no young ATG has broken through to establish themselves. They've had to try and break through three of the greatest players who ever lifted a racquet -who have all been playing at the same time.

Nothing is harder than winning that first slam. The vast majority of ATG's defeated someone who WASN'T an ATG in their first slam title. Very few defeated an ATG on their way to the final. Those who did tended to beat an ATG who was their contemporary. But legends like Connors, Borg and Federer got their first slam without having to face one of the legends of the game, at all. The list is as follows:


FIRST SLAM

CONNORS
F: Phil Dent
Slam wins: 0 Highest Rank: 17
Sf: Alexander

BORG -
F: Manuel Orantes
Slam wins: 1 Highest Rank: 2
Sf: Solomon

McENROE
F: Vitas Gerulaitis
Slam Wins: 1 Highest Rank: 3
Sf:CONNORS

WILANDER
F: Guillermo Vilas
Slam Wins: 4 Highest Rank: 2
Sf: Clerc

LENDL
F: JOHN MCENROE
Slam Wins: 7 Highest Rank: 1
Sf: WILANDER

BECKER
F: Kevin Curren
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 5
Sf: Jarryd

EDBERG
F: MATS WILANDER
Slam Wins: 7 Highest Rank: 1
Sf: LENDL

SAMPRAS
F: ANDRE AGASSI
Slam Wins: 8 Highest Rank: 1
Sf: MCENROE

AGASSI
F: Goran Ivanisevic
Slam Wins: 1 Highest Rank: 2
Sf: MCENROE

FEDERER
F: Mark Philippoussis
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 8
Sf: Roddick

NADAL
F: Mariano Puerta
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 9
Sf: FEDERER

DJOKOVIC
Jo-Willfried Tsonga
Slam Wins: 0 Highest Rank: 5
Sf: FEDERER
Click to expand...

So wait. This also means that Djokovic and Nadal did not face an ATG on the way to their first Slam title either. A little disingenuous not to include them.
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

Legend
Rosstour said:
So wait. This also means that Djokovic and Nadal did not face an ATG on the way to their first Slam title either. A little disingenuous not to include them.
Click to expand...

People might forget that 1st major win without defeating an ATG, but they more than made up for it when the Big 3 contested just about every major ATP event for the last 15 years! Sampras had a bunch of clunker finals against "also rans," but Fedalovic consistently had to beat 1 or 2 of the others to win even a Masters 1000! :unsure: :giggle: :laughing::notworthy:
 
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Aabye5

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
Aabye5 said:
Let the hype begin.....Sebi Korda anointed "great" by Rafa Nadal :cool:

I thought you needed to perform a miracle, refrain from intoxication, and get the approval of three ATGs...Or thus, I have heard.

nadal-korda-washington-2021-practice.jpg


https://www.atptour.com/en/news/nadal-korda-washington-2021-feature

Alright, I might reading what I want out of this, but I can't help it... ;)
Click to expand...

He's coming...you guys still have your blinders on, but let's see what happens in Miami after this confidence boost.
 
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