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By which time it was too late, Next Gen Nadal had already broken through and would humiliate Federer at the French, snatch his crown off at Wimbledon, run away with the Olympic Gold and reduce the Swiss to tears in Australia. Nadal and Djokovic have set the bar so high that 12 years later there...

I'm sorry it is just a fact. Nadal went 6-1 up in the H2H after their first 7 matches, 3 of them on hardcourts. It is just a fact that Federer hadn't set the bar high enough to hold back next gen Nadal. Nadal has set the bar high enough to hold back everybody on red clay for 15 years. So he...

There are no 'would haves' in sport either. If the current generation sets the bar incredibly high, obviously it will be much harder for the following generations to climb the mountain. That is what we have seen. Federer's standard has been nothing to worry Nadal since he was a baby in diapers...

Yeah he was like Samson and Hercules combined holding up the players ranked 79 ----------> infinity on his epic run to the FO semi final 2006. What a leg end! :-D

There are no 'shoulds' in sport. Some generations produce exceptional athletes who put the bar out of reach for their own generation and future ones. Several generations will pass before a generation produces an athlete who can get any where near Usain Bolt's great records. I feel blessed to be...

How could I forget ... :rolleyes: ... oh well, the vote is in play, next time Ljubo might get a look in!! (y)

My mistake, I must have missed the generation of players that gave Nadal anything to worry about on red clay .... during the last 15 years.

I think that probably made sense in your head when you typed it.

Then your answer is Nadal, as he is the only one who has dominated his older generation, his generation, his next generation, the next next generation and the next next next generation on clay. I think this is harsh on Djokovic he has had long periods of similar dominance on the other surfaces.

In the mid-2000s, Federer prevented his own generation (Hewitt, Roddick, Davydenko, Baghdatis, Ljubicic et al) from breaking through. He couldn't prevent the next gen Nadal from dominating on clay and he couldn't stop Nadal, Djokovic, Murray etc from eventually taking over.

Nadal on clay and Djokovic everywhere else have raised the bar so high that seemingly only a super fit, motivated, confident Roger Federer redlining his game can hang with them. The proper respect is due to all three of them, but Federer couldn't prevent the next gen taking over, so my votes...

And isn't that a sign of true greatness? Discuss.

Props to the video editor. He had such little footage to work with from the AO2021 .... thank goodness for slo mo ....

10 matches in 11 years is long enough to reach a conclusion about the relative merits of outdoor hardcourt players when the H2H is 8 - 2 in favour of one of them and really should have been 9 - 1. Murray has never held such an advantage.

Ahem, might I suggest a minor alteration.

I'll take that as a yes then. One can deduce who is a better player without them necessarily meeting at a slam. Thanks.

Federer didn't play Ivan Ljubicic at a HC slam between 2004 and 2007 but I can still draw a conclusion, can you? https://www.atptour.com/en/players/atp-head-2-head/roger-federer-vs-ivan-ljubicic/F324/L360

Including indoor matches doesn't help at all. Federer has been vastly superior to Nadal in indoor conditions since day 1. He still is. There is nothing to be learned about whether he has improved or declined. To 2007, Federer and Nadal played 3 matches on outdoor hardcourts. It is 2-1 to Nadal...

But are you deceiving yourself when you have the results to back it up? Is it not realistic that Roger Federer in some way measures his standard against the best players especially his arch nemesis and rival Nadal who has been a thorn in the side from the beginning? On outdoor hardcourts from...

Yes, at times that backhand was a vending machine that would spray you with cheap points if you poured in enough topspin. On outdoor hardcourts from 2004 to 2015 (the surface and conditions where both hardcourt slams are played) Federer is 2 - 8 to Nadal*. Since 2015 the H2H on outdoor...

:-D

From henceforth known as The Roger Ruling.

Well I guess certain players won't be dropping down the rankings like a stone and will have a good (undeserved) seeding at the slams. Good for business. Not necessarily good for sport.

From Elena Dementieva's news conference in Key Biscayne: Q: When you made the comment about Richard Williams' deciding who is going to win, what did you mean by that? Dementieva: I was kidding. Q: You were kidding? Dementieva: Yep. Q: Did you think it would become such an important joke...

Well you either think that Richard is a liar and Venus is a liar and Serena is a liar and Oracene is a liar and they refused to return to one of the wealthiest tournaments in women's tennis for 13 years, despite arm-twisting and threats of suspension from the WTA for no reason. Or you believe...

The audience would not have been making liberal use of the n word if the sisters had been white, red, green or blue. "Richard accused the crowds at Indian Wells of overt racism, saying, "The white people at Indian Wells, what they've been wanting to say all along to us finally came out...

Important, yes. Extremely important, no. Why? Because you can get to No. 1 without performing well at the slams. Sometimes quantity can outdo quality. If Nadal wanted to be World No. 1 he could play every clay court tournament that exists, plus the masters and the slams. But that would not...

Booo!!! :cautious: .... Thanks for the info, I hope it does well enough for there to be a sequel. :unsure:

Every great battle scarred player starts to have doubts in the big moments towards the end of their career. Navratilova turned into a terribly nervous player, how she lost that Wimbledon final to Conchita Martinez will remain an all time mystery. Serena, Roger, Pete, Steffi ... all of them...