‘Australian Open won’t happen under current restrictions,’ warns Craig Tiley

marc45

G.O.A.T.
@jon_wertheim

@AustralianOpen letter to players reads in part: "sincerest apologies for the ongoing uncertainty but..this is well out of our control.The Government’s decision does enable the players to spend Christmas at home, but also leaves everyone unsure as to precise dates of travel"
 

irishnadalfan1983

Hall of Fame
Would anyone have a rough estimate of the amount of people needed to fly into Melbourne if indeed everything goes ahead? Like the amount of players (including doubles), coaches, physios, etc? 400/500? What about someone wanting to bring a partner/family with them? I presume that can't happen....
 

Fedinkum

Legend
They really should think about organizing in Sydney this year if it is not too late. It looks like idiot premier of Victoria won't allow this thing to go on.
I really thought they would use Brisbane as their backups. Sydney still have some hotspot as I understand. So I was really surprised they moved all Pre-AO tournament to Melbourne. Very ballsy move.
 

Tshooter

Legend
US & France are not in great shape right now. So even though their organizers might have done a good job of making the slams happened, we will never know their impact to the country's covid situation...
USO (which I opposed having this year) we can be fairly sure had little or no impact. Based not only on the testing and reports out of the “bubble” but on the numbers reported by NYC, Nassau and Suffolk counties throughout the rest of Sept/Oct. It’s only very recently that numbers in these areas have been climbing, they are still not that bad yet (trend is not good) especially compared to March-May and there is no reason to link any clusters to USO activity. Still it was a poor decision and Cuomo stinks. (n)

At minimum you bar Zed and Thiem who are both completely irresponsible. I suppose you have to bar Djoker too and anyone that attended his super spreader party. And the entire French contingent except maybe for Simon who seems like the only sensible one.
 
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aorgwimbus

New User
Do you know who makes the final call? Is it like the premier for Victoria? Or like the premier for all if Australia?
I suppose Tennis Australia could decide to hold the event in another state if Victorian government is uncompromising bit I do not know the official procedure. In terms of logistics and organizaion , though , it may be a bit late for that but who knows maybe they could postpone a couple of weeks.

While Victoria has been the most oppressive state in terms of restrictions and lockdowns, the rest of Australia is not that much differentin the way they treat the virus. NSW government may also be unwilling to host the event but it looks like they are a bit more lenient.

They should just drop this idea of 5 week of tennis, just host one prep event and then 2 weeks of slam, just like New York. Maybe do not even host with crowds if you are that worried. But I really do not see the event going on right now with this Victoria government in charge. I hope I am wrong.
 

junior74

G.O.A.T.
Federer and Nadal are the luckiest player to ever play tennis. Wimbledon gets cancelled, AO might get cancelled.

Why not just play RG for the next 5 years? Lol.
I think Novak has been lucky, too. No young ATGs behind him, for an entire career. That's truly special in tennis.

It's a shame for Novak - and the rest of the world - that there's a pandemic going on that prevents stuff from happening...

Seriously, Fedal would rather play tennis than hoping for things like this to happen. But feel free to draw your own conclusions :)
 
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Fedinkum

Legend
USO (which I opposed having this year) we can be fairly sure had little or no impact. Based not only on the testing and reports out of the “bubble” but on the numbers reported by NYC, Nassau and Suffolk counties throughout the rest of Sept/Oct. It’s only very recently that numbers in these areas have been climbing, they are still not that bad especially compared to March-May and there is no reason to link any clusters to USO activity. Still it was a poor decision and Cuomo stinks. (n)
Yeah, I understand what you are saying. In Melbourne, we had the first wave under controlled then a few minor incidents with hotel quarantine security guards not doing their job, and the end result was absolutely devastating to the Victoria State.

My point was, USO ran successfully as a tennis tournament under tough circumstances, but we shouldn’t assume it was a bullet proof model to prevent spread of Covid because this sucker’s ability to transmit is quite frightening. But we can definitely learnt more from FO and USO 2020.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
I suppose Tennis Australia could decide to hold the event in another state if Victorian government is uncompromising bit I do not know the official procedure. In terms of logistics and organizaion , though , it may be a bit late for that but who knows maybe they could postpone a couple of weeks.
Not a chance. Sydney does not have enough courts to run a Full Event. Brisbane will be way too hot. Both Sydney and Brisbane only have one covered court anyway. Any adverse weather would seriously disrupt the Tournament unless it became a Three Week Affair or the Draws are reduced to 32 Players.

In any case, most TA Officials and Staff are located in Melbourne. No way most of them would want the thing shifted and they miss out on all the Lerks and Perks that come with being Staff at the AO at Melbourne Park.

They should just drop this idea of 5 week of tennis, just host one prep event and then 2 weeks of slam, just like New York. Maybe do not even host with crowds if you are that worried.
If they can't or don't move the event to later in 2021 this is the most likely scenario.
 

Tshooter

Legend
Yeah, I understand what you are saying. In Melbourne, we had the first wave under controlled then a few minor incidents with hotel quarantine security guards not doing their job, and the end result was absolutely devastating to the Victoria State.

My point was, USO ran successfully as a tennis tournament under tough circumstances, but we shouldn’t assume it was a bullet proof model to prevent spread of Covid because this sucker’s ability to transmit is quite frightening. But we can definitely learnt more from FO and USO 2020.
USO is hardly a bullet proof model. It was fortuitous that the USO timing coincided with a huge decrease in virus transmission in the area as a result of the local lockdowns and that people were very serious about distancing and masks (including in Trumpy Suffolk County). The USO on the other hand I was told didn’t even buyout the hotel that players were at in Garden City. Apparently members of the general public were staying there at the time. Some USO employees were going home at night. What kind of bubble is that. :unsure:
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Tiley is flexing his muscles
Craig Tiley has absolutely zero influence over the man who will ultimately decide, Dan Andrews.

Keep in mind, the National Tennis Centre and Melbourne Park and Rod Laver Arena are owned and controlled by the Victorian State Government.

Tennis Australia are simply tenants of the venues. For most of the year, Rod Laver Arena is used for purposes unrelated to Tennis.

Victorian people have long memories. If Dan Andrews lets it go ahead and it triggers a Third Wave, he will most likely be tossed out at the next State Election.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Craig Tiley has absolutely zero influence over the man who will ultimately decide, Dan Andrews.

Keep in mind, the National Tennis Centre and Melbourne Park and Rod Laver Arena are owned and controlled by the Victorian State Government.

Tennis Australia are simply tenants of the venues. For most of the year, Rod Laver Arena is used for purposes unrelated to Tennis.

Victorian people have long memories. If Dan Andrews lets it go ahead and it triggers a Third Wave, he will most likely be tossed out at the next State Election.
Tiley sure knows the economic impact of the AO, so he is reminding to those who have to make the decision not to forget it.

:cool:
 

Fedinkum

Legend
Tiley sure knows the economic impact of the AO, so he is reminding to those who have to make the decision not to forget it.

:cool:
Without the international crowds, possibly some of the inter-state travellers due to return quarantine, and limited or no crowd attendance, I am really not sure if there is that much of financial gain for the Vic government. If Vic remains Covid free, they will probably run it with no crowd as a bubble tournament, but if hot spot happens again, the vic government will be under a lot of pressure.

The good news is our local channel is still advertising the Australian Open as we speak now. So x-fingers!
 
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aorgwimbus

New User
Not a chance. Sydney does not have enough courts to run a Full Event. Brisbane will be way too hot. Both Sydney and Brisbane only have one covered court anyway. Any adverse weather would seriously disrupt the Tournament unless it became a Three Week Affair or the Draws are reduced to 32 Players.

In any case, most TA Officials and Staff are located in Melbourne. No way most of them would want the thing shifted and they miss out on all the Lerks and Perks that come with being Staff at the AO at Melbourne Park.



If they can't or don't move the event to later in 2021 this is the most likely scenario.
I mean all other three slams were run without a single roof for decades, they managed to finish all matches in 2 weeks (+ a day sometimes) even in the worst possible conditions.

I know courts in Sydney do not compare Melbourne’s but they still have around 12-13 courts as far as I know. It is manageable if they skip qualies and some double events.

But yeah it is a long shot. It is either in Melbourne or no event.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This is exactly right. The tournament is important for Tennis Australia. For the Victorian economy being covid-free is vitally important. The AO is a triviality in the current conditions.

Without the international crowds, possibly some of the inter-state travellers due to return quarantine, and limited or no crowd attendance, I am really not sure if there is that much of finical gain for the Vic government. If Vic remain Covid free, they will probably run it with no crowd as a bubble tournament, but if hot spot happens again, the vic government will be under a lot of pressure.

The good news is out local channel is still advertising the Australian Open as we speak now. So x-fingers!
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Tiley sure knows the economic impact of the AO, so he is reminding to those who have to make the decision not to forget it.
There is no doubt that the AO produces a huge financial benefit to Victoria in the order of $250 Million USD. It also creates upward of 1000 jobs. All that is great for the Victorian and Australian Economy.

But that is a Full Tournament with full Ticket Sales. A significant proportion of people who attend the AO are international or interstate visitors. Take most of them away, and the Economic Benefits fall pretty flat ... especially if Ticket Sales to locals are limited to 25%.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
I mean all other three slams were run without a single roof for decades, they managed to finish all matches in 2 weeks (+ a day sometimes) even in the worst possible conditions.
Before the days of things like HEAT RULES !!! Not any more.

I mean, it's summer and vaccination programs are starting next month.
Vaccination programs aren't scheduled to being in Australia until March 2021 at the earliest. Even then, the first groups to receive the vaccinations will be the Elderly and Health Care Workers. General Public in Australia won't be getting any vaccinations before September 2021.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
This is exactly right. The tournament is important for Tennis Australia. For the Victorian economy being covid-free is vitally important. The AO is a triviality in the current conditions.
Hey Bartelby! Did you reply any more to the used Zverev? I woke up this morning and of course it was deleted! Shame, we were dancing!! :D
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
so what do you guys think ?
2021 AO will be cancelled or not ?
As I said earlier ... Competitive Tennis has begun in Melbourne last weekend. If the situation remains the same or improves, the Australian Championships will be conducted one way or another.

The big question will be about who attends the Event. It might be the whole Top 100, it might be a few International Players and lots of locals, or it might be just local players.

It might be a 128 Draw, or it might be a 32 Draw. Who knows?

Also need to keep in mind that Nine Network Australia paid a lot of money for the Broadcasting Rights. It is unlikely to accept the event being cancelled unless it receives significant compensation from Tennis Australia. TA is no longer covered by Cancellation Insurance. So it may find it has no choice but to run the event ... Government permitting.
 

Boozyuzi

Hall of Fame
It's not going to happen but why not hold the mens event in Melbourne over 12 days and hold the womens event in Sydney over 12 days... have one starting a week after the other. Base the mens & womens pre-tournie bubbles in relevant cities.

or Perth lol
 

Fedinkum

Legend
It's not going to happen but why not hold the mens event in Melbourne over 12 days and hold the womens event in Sydney over 12 days... have one starting a week after the other. Base the mens & womens pre-tournie bubbles in relevant cities.

or Perth lol
That is a great idea! Should be Brisbane though. I thought Sydney still has hot spots? I am probably wrong though.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It is under control because the country is locked down, both from the outside and even inside for the most part until recently.

States want to keep it this way, but Andrews does seem amenable to staging the AO with restrictions that make TA fear for their profits.

Lol at people thinking AO won't happen. Covid is way more under control here than in Europe/USA.
 

ADuck

Hall of Fame
It is under control because the country is locked down, both from the outside and even inside for the most part until recently.

States want to keep it this way, but Andrews does seem amenable to staging the AO with restrictions that make TA fear for their profits.
There's just too much money at stake to not hold it. Also State of Origin was just held tonight with 50,000 spectators and no social distancing (that I could see). I get that that's different from hosting international sport, but it honestly shouldn't be that difficult for them to figure something out.
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Without the international crowds, possibly some of the inter-state travellers due to return quarantine, and limited or no crowd attendance, I am really not sure if there is that much of financial gain for the Vic government. If Vic remains Covid free, they will probably run it with no crowd as a bubble tournament, but if hot spot happens again, the vic government will be under a lot of pressure.

The good news is our local channel is still advertising the Australian Open as we speak now. So x-fingers!
Yes, reduced impact for sure, but still. Of course, we all hope for the tournament to take place, but NOT at the expense of the public health safety.

:cool:
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
I don't think you appreciate the pressure on the Victorian Government to maintain the Zero numbers.

Tennis really doesn't factor into being that popular a sport in Victoria anymore. Certainly not to the point the Victorian Government would permit it to go ahead even if it thinks for one second it could lead to a Third Wave of the virus here.



I don't think anyone is afraid of catching the virus. But a lot of people are afraid of developing COVID-19 which can lead to some very nasty health issues and possibly even death.
You brought up a great point. "The pressure ... To maintain the Zero numbers". This is absolute lunacy. Where is this pressure coming from? People seem to have forgotten that EVERYONE dies. We are dying from the day we are born.
I applaud people that want measures to MINIMIZE spread, but to what degree and to what cost? There is a concept that the closer one gets to perfection (zero in this case), the higher the cost, and approaching that zero has exponential costs.
Anyways, I do hope the AO moves forward, do hope they include international players. I am one of the folks that thinks the AO is a great Slam. I prefer it to the USO.
 
The issue is not the crowds - it is the players and support teams. Australia is leading the world in control of this disease - they have single digit daily case numbers and are starting to get back to normal life.

Holding the AO would involve letting in hundreds (if not thousands) of people from all over the world, many from places like the US and Europe that are riddled with disease.

Melbourne has already had an extremely damaging second wave, triggered by a quarantine breach. It caused the state of Victoria to be cut off from the rest of the country for months, cost them billions of dollars and hundreds of lives, and has left them lagging well behind the rest of Australia in terms of an economic recovery.

If ATP/WTA players and their support staff brought the disease into the country and Melbourne had a second quarantine breach, the domestic ramifications would be huge. It's entirely possible that the politicians will decide it's just better not to risk it.
Very simply. Move the slam to somewhere where they don't have an obsession for holding single-digit cases.
 
FO and USO were held.

Where's the problem? Just because st is difficult to organize doesn't mean it should be scrapped. That's the easy way out.

Basketball and football - contact sports - are being held yet tennis is somehow impossible?

The ITF needs to move slams to where they can be played. I am tired of London and Melbourne and their shenanigans.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Very simply. Move the slam to somewhere where they don't have an obsession for holding single-digit cases.
Where do you suggest?

Beijing? Shanghai? Pyongyang?

The ITF needs to move slams to where they can be played.
ITF does not have the power to change the Major Tournaments. Any attempt to do so would incite Legal Action that would end up with the ITF going broke.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
I applaud people that want measures to MINIMIZE spread, but to what degree and to what cost?
Australians have been grappling with this question since April. Different State Government have taken different approaches.

Personally, I don't think the VIC Government expected the result it has achieved. But it is a credit to the Victorian people that they manage to rein in the numbers and snuff out the Second Wave. Even so, it ended up with 700 odd deaths which I think did shock a lot of us here.

Yes, it is true that we all have to die some time. But surely better later than sooner. And preferably not as a result of something that might have been avoidable either in the short term (Isolation) or longer term (Vaccine or sophisticated Cures).
 

Fedinkum

Legend
You brought up a great point. "The pressure ... To maintain the Zero numbers". This is absolute lunacy. Where is this pressure coming from? People seem to have forgotten that EVERYONE dies. We are dying from the day we are born.
I applaud people that want measures to MINIMIZE spread, but to what degree and to what cost? There is a concept that the closer one gets to perfection (zero in this case), the higher the cost, and approaching that zero has exponential costs.
Anyways, I do hope the AO moves forward, do hope they include international players. I am one of the folks that thinks the AO is a great Slam. I prefer it to the USO.
For countries like Australia & NZ, we were fortunate enough to keep Covid under controlled due to our geographic location, relatively smaller population, more willing citizens (not all, but defintely more co-operative compared to US & Europe), relatively more level-headed government and a bit of luck. I think our State Governments are realistically hoping to aim for zero number for as long as we can (fvck you the Australian Federal Government though). We are betting a vaccine should be within grasp early next year. If we are prepared to do the hard yards every time a hot spot emerges, we can avoid prolonged extreme lock down and avoid hospital overloads. That might just give us enough cushion till the vaccine arrives.

For Europe and US, they had their chances but they are probably too late to aim for zero numbers now.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's a political war. Tiley wants few restrictions so he can make maximum profit. Andrews wants to keep covid out of Victoria.

It's Tiley who will be responsible if the AO is cancelled as it's clear Andrews wants it to go ahead, just not in the form Tiley wants.

Eliminating Tiley's ATP Cup/AO grand plan was round one to Andrews. Round two is about the form the AO will take.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
I hope the people that are waiting for zero cases ever are immortal because it’s going to be a long wait.
No need to wait for zero cases. That is just a bonus. Just like common cold viruses, there will never be zero cases.

What people are waiting for are effective vaccines and effective treatment cures.

(Forty years on and still no vaccine for HIV!)
 

topher

Professional
They really should think about organizing in Sydney this year if it is not too late. It looks like idiot premier of Victoria won't allow this thing to go on.
How about Paris? Just need to get the AELTC on board so Rafa can win the NCYGS with 4 straight RGs :p

Where do you suggest?

Beijing? Shanghai? Pyongyang?
Paris. They’re working on more roofs right now. Should be done any day now.
 
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Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
Paris. They’re working on more roofs right now. Should be done anyway now.
Well you've won me over. I would much prefer to see the AO conducted on Clay Courts than the stupid rubbish Hard Courts that have been forced upon us. Seriously, Rebound Ace, Plexicushion Prestige and now GreenSet are the most rubbish excuses for a Tennis Court surface for Elite players.

Might as well turn the AO into a Table Tennis Tournament!
 
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