“I don’t think it’s a flag issue, it’s a Novak, Rafa, Federer issue; they are a big problem for everyone” - Frances Tiafoe on US Men's Tennis

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Entername

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“I don’t think it’s a flag issue, it’s a Novak, Rafa, Federer issue; they are a big problem for everyone” - Frances Tiafoe on lack of American winners of men's singles Grand Slam titles

At a press conference at the 2022 Citi Open, Frances Tiafoe was asked about the fact that it has been a long time since an American won a men's singles Grand Slam title.
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The young American was recently asked about why US men's tennis has had so little success in the 21st century and his response was essentially, US tennis isn't bad and it's not a nationality matter, but rather we have to face big 3 like everyone else.

However, despite facing big 3 is as big of a mountain as any, how many American players have been directly stopped from winning slams due to the big 3? Roddick was stopped by Federer but do we consider Roddick to be big 3 era or just Fed era? If Berdych/Tsonga/Ferrer say they were stopped by big 3 from winning slams I'd understand that but no US player since the creation of the big 3 has been on the Berdych/Tsonga/Ferrer level.

The only instance I can think of where an American player might've had a chance to win w/o big 3's presence is 2019 Wimbledon when Rafa beat Querrey and in a no-big 3 world, Querrey would've only needed to beat Nishikori and RBA to win the title. Frtiz would've likely lost to Kyrgios without Djokodal in the picture this year
 
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big ted said:
i think roddick was the last great american player that could win GS titles.
i cant think of anyone since then
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Pretty much. Since 2003, the US has still produced quality players/depth but none were actually gonna be big 3 stoppers.

- Roddick was toast the moment Federer arrived
- Blake is pretty much the Shapo of the mid-2000s
- Fish had talent but many limitations
- Isner and Opelka are too one-dimensional despite having godly serves
- Querrey had weapons but never enough consistency to win a major
- Tiafoe doesn't have enough weapons
- Fritz is like Fish where he has talent but too many limitations
 
ChaelAZ said:
He is partially right in terms of GS's. I mean, how many other countries have won since the Big 3 started?

The bigger question might be why not one American is able to make a push to the top 10 and hold it.
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The talented athletes in the US are choosing other sports due to the stigma of tennis, since it’s a “country club” sport and the people who participate in it are entitled.
 
Entername said:
Pretty much. Since 2003, the US has still produced quality players/depth but none were actually gonna be big 3 stoppers.

- Roddick was toast the moment Federer arrived
- Blake is pretty much the Shapo of the mid-2000s
- Fish had talent but many limitations
- Isner and Opelka are too one-dimensional despite having godly serves
- Querrey had weapons but never enough consistency to win a major
- Tiafoe doesn't have enough weapons
- Fritz is like Fish where he has talent but too many limitations
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Didn't Fish also have an underlying heart condition that required multiple surgeries?
 
That journalist should know that the USTA following the Sampras model instead of the Agassi model is why they ended up worse off in the poly era. It resulted in a lot of US players trying the big serves, big forehands, trying to blast opponents off the court, instead of consistent rallying endurance.
 
Adv. Edberg said:
It’s not a Fedalovic problem. They need to stop blaming 37 year olds.
Roddick won slams
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It's not even about Majors. Putting aside Roddick's 1 Major, he reached 10 Major SFs, won 5 Masters, won 32 total titles and played at the WTF 6 times.

Isner is probably the next most successful American in the past 15+ years, and he's made 1 Major SF, won 1 Masters, won 16 total titles, and played at the WTF 1 time.

And that's not a knock on Isner. It's just highlighting the gap across the board to all of Andy's accomplishments.
 
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Fabresque said:
The talented athletes in the US are choosing other sports due to the stigma of tennis, since it’s a “country club” sport and the people who participate in it are entitled.
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Especially for male players, the risk/reward equation doesn't make sense.

If you grow up poor or working class, the odds you will "make it" in tennis, or even make a serious living, is slim.

If you grow up middle to upper middle class, you not only have the same slim odds, but you will probably do better on average allocating all that time and money to something more likely to produce fruit.
 
Entername said:
Pretty much. Since 2003, the US has still produced quality players/depth but none were actually gonna be big 3 stoppers.

- Roddick was toast the moment Federer arrived
- Blake is pretty much the Shapo of the mid-2000s
- Fish had talent but many limitations
- Isner and Opelka are too one-dimensional despite having godly serves
- Querrey had weapons but never enough consistency to win a major
- Tiafoe doesn't have enough weapons
- Fritz is like Fish where he has talent but too many limitations
Click to expand...
 
I think we don’t have great players but plenty in the top 100. They are around just don’t win big tournaments much. But it’s not any different than the UK or Australia to be honest.
 
I wonder why he referred to Novak and Rafa by their first names, but Roger by his last name? Maybe he doesn't respect Roger as much as the other 2.
 
Entername said:
www.sportskeeda.com

“I don’t think it’s a flag issue, it’s a Novak, Rafa, Federer issue; they are a big problem for everyone” - Frances Tiafoe on lack of American winners of men's singles Grand Slam titles

At a press conference at the 2022 Citi Open, Frances Tiafoe was asked about the fact that it has been a long time since an American won a men's singles Grand Slam title.
www.sportskeeda.com www.sportskeeda.com

The young American was recently asked about why US men's tennis has had so little success in the 21st century and his response was essentially, US tennis isn't bad and it's not a nationality matter, but rather we have to face big 3 like everyone else.

However, despite facing big 3 is as big of a mountain as any, how many American players have been directly stopped from winning slams due to the big 3? Roddick was stopped by Federer but do we consider Roddick to be big 3 era or just Fed era? If Berdych/Tsonga/Ferrer say they were stopped by big 3 from winning slams I'd understand that but no US player since the creation of the big 3 has been on the Berdych/Tsonga/Ferrer level.

The only instance I can think of where an American player might've had a chance to win w/o big 3's presence is 2019 Wimbledon when Rafa beat Querrey and in a no-big 3 world, Querrey would've only needed to beat Nishikori and RBA to win the title. Frtiz would've likely lost to Kyrgios without Djokodal in the picture this year
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Federer hasnt played for two years. Nadal is injured most of the time past few years.
No the issue is the best athletes in the collegiate system go into Basketball NFL or Athletics. Tennis is a niche sport now in the US.
 
insideguy said:
I think we don’t have great players but plenty in the top 100. They are around just don’t win big tournaments much. But it’s not any different than the UK or Australia to be honest.
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In the UK at schools the best athletes get encouraged to play soccer or Rugby in winter and cricket in the summer. Membership at tennis clubs is ridiculously expensive so prohibits the best talent that may be out there to be discovered. The Uk will likely never see a Major champion again for decades.
 
Mustard said:
That journalist should know that the USTA following the Sampras model instead of the Agassi model is why they ended up worse off in the poly era. It resulted in a lot of US players trying the big serves, big forehands, trying to blast opponents off the court, instead of consistent rallying endurance.
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Yes, the way the USTA identifies and develops its top prospects is not dissimilar from how they identify baseball pitchers. This and the fact that, unlike Europe, America does not have a big pool of young adolescent players who play soccer which is probably the best sport for developing the type of footwork needed for tennis. This is especially true in the poly strings era when baseline play has made lateral movement essential, while in the S&V era, big servers could get by with just decent forward movement.
 
insideguy said:
I think we don’t have great players but plenty in the top 100. They are around just don’t win big tournaments much. But it’s not any different than the UK or Australia to be honest.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there are 14 Americans in the top 100 (10 in the top 60) right now. I think the only country that can approach that kind of depth is Spain.
 
PUSB said:
In the UK at schools the best athletes get encouraged to play soccer or Rugby in winter and cricket in the summer. Membership at tennis clubs is ridiculously expensive so prohibits the best talent that may be out there to be discovered. The Uk will likely never see a Major champion again for decades.
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Look you can make far more money and have much better benefits being the 26th man on a baseball team. The 26th best player on that team. All travel paid, all meals paid. And a pension based on time in service. And that’s just baseball. Major league soccer players now in the USA make better salaries than most of the atp. We won’t even talk about nfl or nba or nhl.
 
Is it TiMUGo? They cant be a problem if you trashy players can't even get out of the 4th round to even get to the Big 3 LOL. Sounds like your generation is the problem. Stop blaming the "Old 3"
 
insideguy said:
Look you can make far more money and have much better benefits being the 26th man on a baseball team. The 26th best player on that team. All travel paid, all meals paid. And a pension based on time in service. And that’s just baseball. Major league soccer players now in the USA make better salaries than most of the atp. We won’t even talk about nfl or nba or nhl.
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Absolutely. Why go into tennis when most athletic people are good at three sports generally so can pick
 
Roddick’s serve truly was amazing. To be able to hit mid 140’s at 6’1” was unreal. I’d love to bring heat like that at the local club.
 
I actually think one of the younger Americans will win a slam. My best guess is that Korda once he gets a killer instinct will get a slam like his dad. There is still a window of opportunity.
 
Fabresque said:
The talented athletes in the US are choosing other sports due to the stigma of tennis, since it’s a “country club” sport and the people who participate in it are entitled.
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Having worked with a lot of juniors that have aspirations for college or pros, not many come from seriously affluent families. Like most sports once you reach a certain level a cost kicks in. What isn't as readily available is a transition point from High School on since most ranking for juniors is done through USTA tourneys, while other 'popular' sports recruit through HS programs.

The comment about entitled, that is just bias and a slight against anyone who has made a decent living that they don't deserve it somehow.
 
ChaelAZ said:
Having worked with a lot of juniors that have aspirations for college or pros, not many come from seriously affluent families. Like most sports once you reach a certain level a cost kicks in. What isn't as readily available is a transition point from High School on since most ranking for juniors is done through USTA tourneys, while other 'popular' sports recruit through HS programs.

The comment about entitled, that is just bias and a slight against anyone who has made a decent living that they don't deserve it somehow.
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Where do you live? I’m a teaching pro in a large ******* city and most of my clients are either affluent or definitely well above the line. I’ve had clients ask me to come teach them in their communities courts. A well-known college player around my area has a tennis court in her backyard.

Not at all. If you’ve made your wealth and have worked hard for it, I have no issue with you. My issue comes with those who abuse that idea that their wealth puts them “above” others. I’ve worked at a country club in customer service and maintenance, people like that exist. I’m not going to group them all together, but this group doesn’t make tennis look favorable to the common onlooker. USTA sux and always has.
 
Mainad said:
ChaelAZ said:
The bigger question might be why not one American is able to make a push to the top 10 and hold it.

Exactly.
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I've said a few times in discussion about US players, I think they have removed quality independent coaching that can work more intimately with each player and the USTA throws money and resources at them to get them into the homognized USTA player development protypical mold. Which, at best is geared towards decent college level players, but has been missing the mark for pro level players for quite some time. I think independent coaches could better serve players in their own programs and the USTA might consider supporting the coaches and their training to see if that helps diversify and enhance players beyond what their regime of training does.

Then again, so of it is that truly great champions aren't found in most players. They happen very rarely and no one knows the exact formula of nature and nurture that creates them
 
Fabresque said:
Where do you live? I’m a teaching pro in a large ******* city and most of my clients are either affluent or definitely well above the line. I’ve had clients ask me to come teach them in their communities courts. A well-known college player around my area has a tennis court in her backyard.

Not at all. If you’ve made your wealth and have worked hard for it, I have no issue with you. My issue comes with those who abuse that idea that their wealth puts them “above” others. I’ve worked at a country club in customer service and maintenance, people like that exist. I’m not going to group them all together, but this group doesn’t make tennis look favorable to the common onlooker. USTA sux and always has.
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Arizona in Surprise. It is a public facility and has plenty of quality players. One is a kid, well, young man now that I have watched develop who is a 5 star recruit. Mom was out there drilling him all the time, and the kid would hit with everyone at the facility. Several others around as well that have come through simple juniors camp programs and not elite country clubs. Sure, they exist in Scottsdale and affluent areas, but they service a smaller portion of clientel, and it ceratinly does not give them entitlement issues.
 
ChaelAZ said:
Having worked with a lot of juniors that have aspirations for college or pros, not many come from seriously affluent families. Like most sports once you reach a certain level a cost kicks in. What isn't as readily available is a transition point from High School on since most ranking for juniors is done through USTA tourneys, while other 'popular' sports recruit through HS programs.
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Isn't this an issue in other individual sports though?

In individual sports like swimming and track, an athlete can point to his times as a marker for excellence.

However, sports like tennis require competition against the best.

For example, while many high school programs have wrestling, winning events in your local county/district isn't going to get you looks by the good colleges. Aside from the state tournament in particularly strong states (PA, OH, NJ, etc.), you need to travel and go to off-season tournaments where you can compete against the country's best to show how good you are. You also need to get training time with other elite wrestlers at clubs. All of that comes at a cost as well, but people do it in wrestling and I would say that wrestling is a fairly blue collar sport in the U.S. How is tennis any different in that respect? This is why I don't always buy the "expense" argument. And on the world stage at the Olympics our wrestlers do quite well. We are producing plenty of world and Olympic champions and medalists.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
Isn't this an issue in other individual sports though?

In individual sports like swimming and track, an athlete can point to his times as a marker for excellence.

However, sports like tennis require competition against the best.

For example, while many high school programs have wrestling, winning events in your local county/district isn't going to get you looks by the good colleges. Aside from the state tournament in particularly strong states (PA, OH, NJ, etc.), you need to travel and go to off-season tournaments where you can compete against the country's best to show how good you are. You also need to get training time with other elite wrestlers at clubs. All of that comes at a cost as well, but people do it in wrestling and I would say that wrestling is a fairly blue collar sport in the U.S.
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True. There are high level high schools, but spots are VERY limited to some of the best. Even with open sport initiatives where you have to take any kid that wants to play, they would barely see court time in JV. I work at a local community college and we have on of the best feeder teams for university programs for women's softball. Most the players that come through are not affluent, but use our several year running champion program as a stepping stone to move to well-known universities. I WISH tennis could do more of that, but the USTA loves to promote USTA juniors programs and tourneys over any high school because it brings in more $$$ for player development.
 
ChaelAZ said:
True. There are high level high schools, but spots are VERY limited to some of the best. Even with open sport initiatives where you have to take any kid that wants to play, they would barely see court time in JV. I work at a local community college and we have on of the best feeder teams for university programs for women's softball. Most the players that come through are not affluent, but use our several year running champion program as a stepping stone to move to well-known universities. I WISH tennis could do more of that, but the USTA loves to promote USTA juniors programs and tourneys over any high school because it brings in more $$$ for player development.
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I'd call the USTA incompetent, but that would be too charitable to the USTA. They have really been a scourge on U.S. tennis for quite some time. They can't even run the U.S. Open competently, let alone the national tennis program.
 
FrontHeadlock said:
I'd call the USTA incompetent, but that would be too charitable to the USTA. They have really been a scourge on U.S. tennis for quite some time. They can't even run the U.S. Open competently, let alone the national tennis program.
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Yeah, incompetent is a good way to frame it. I know plenty of amazing folks in the USTA trying to promote the sports in very organic and local ways but the overall funding that goes in seems to serve the few over the many. Would love to see where all the funding is spent.
 
I only have the outsider’s view but the only glaring US tennis aspect for me is that they really should have a male player in the top 10 now as they have so many players in the immediate fringe.

I think that will happen soon as Korda is the 3rd best player in the world by age. Whether or not you treat that as a win for US tennis is debatable as obviously Korda’s father was heavily involved in his development and he is not an example of the traditional USTA developmental pathway.

There is obviously nothing wrong with the system overall as US women’s tennis has been going gangbusters for years with multiple major finalists and multiple major winners in the last 10 years.

The American men are also only one generation removed from having two regular top 10 players in Roddick and Blake. And obviously Sir John Isner is an example of the US white bread approach to tennis and he could challenge anyone on his day including the Big 3.
 
Subway Tennis said:
I only have the outsider’s view but the only glaring US tennis aspect for me is that they really should have a male player in the top 10 now as they have so many players in the immediate fringe.

I think that will happen soon as Korda is the 3rd best player in the world by age. Whether or not you treat that as a win for US tennis is debatable as obviously Korda’s father was heavily involved in his development and he is not an example of the traditional USTA developmental pathway.

There is obviously nothing wrong with the system overall as US women’s tennis has been going gangbusters for years with multiple major finalists and multiple major winners in the last 10 years.

The American men are also only one generation removed from having two regular top 10 players in Roddick and Blake. And obviously Sir John Isner is an example of the US white bread approach to tennis and he could challenge anyone on his day including the Big 3.
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Tennis is the one sport that women can make good money. Unless you are a very high caliber track and field person, figure skater, gymnast or soccer player. And you have be elite. Women national soccer players now make very good money. But your like one of 20 out of a field of thousands. Basketball players can go overseas to make good money. But we are seeing the consequences to that.
 
insideguy said:
Tennis is the one sport that women can make good money. Unless you are a very high caliber track and field person, figure skater, gymnast or soccer player. And you have be elite. Women national soccer players now make very good money. But your like one of 20 out of a field of thousands. Basketball players can go overseas to make good money. But we are seeing the consequences to that.
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That is a very good point and it is a point of differentiation in men’s and womens tennis in U.S.
 
Subway Tennis said:
That is a very good point and it is a point of differentiation in men’s and womens tennis in U.S.
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I should say lady golfers also do well. But the sports where they can really make great money is limited. Its nothing like the mens side. I mean there are ladies in track and field who do very well. But you have to be like a monster athlete. That girl who just broke the world record by like a second in the 400 meters is one. She is AMAZING. And I'm sure gets great money. Some top level skiers. We have some incredible swimmers always have had. But as far as really bringing in big money no. They make a living. If your a massive gymnast sure your making good money. But your career in sports is done at 25 at best. The rest is endorsements, and making money off your name teaching and making appearances. Most of them are even done at 20.
 
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